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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 03:59 PM
Original message
A rant about society's expectations of men
Edited on Sun Mar-06-05 04:23 PM by steve2470
John Wayne. Clint Eastwood. Rambo. Vin Diesel. Chuck Norris.
What do these guys have in common ? They're all TV/movie stars who are "macho" to some extent.
Now, I think 99% of you DU ladies are too smart/sophisticated for this, but for the *-ies and others, we men are still expected to shut up and take our beatings daily. If we say anything beyonds "ugh", we start getting looks like "you're a wimp, dude, get over it". So, most of us just shut up. Then, the pain and anger and frustration build. Some of us then go apeshit and shoot up McDonald's. No one I know, thank God, but the weakest among we men do this. Think I'm joking ? Ask a man in private how he REALLY feels deep down inside. You may be surprised at the answer. Thank you and I feel better.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Huh?
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. you aren't included in that rant, I'm sure you know better nt
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Ooohhhh.... ok, it's a dating thing.... my apologies for interrupting...
:)
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. no, it's a "societal ignorance" thing, honestly
we men, in general, have to shut up and NOT whine and be wimps. Suck it up. Be a man. Etc.........
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yeah that!
My brother is always calling me a pussy when I get a little sensitive or even when I was recovering from surgery, well excuse me but I can barely walk, I cant be my fuckin self.
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. when i was your age, I was expected to be John Wayne nt
Edited on Sun Mar-06-05 04:16 PM by steve2470
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name not needed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Why don't you ever take my advice?
I've been telling you to beat his limey ass for months. :D
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. I actually have
kicked his ass a couple times.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. Well, when society as a whole accepts all of its citizens equally...
there will be a wide enough spectrum that the differences won't matter anymore. There are expectations and assumptions placed on all of us for one reason of another. I am constantly being criticized for expressing my opinion or for being passionate about anything... I am expected to be a "lady." So, what do I do... I ignore it and eventually their expectations change.

Suck it up... don't let them tell you what to be... :)
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ProudToBeLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. I know what you mean, especially taste in music
I mean most men are suppose to like rap, rock and roll and etc. Personally I like pop music and R&B which is taboo for men. Sigh
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. you are right, it's subtle, but you're right nt
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auntAgonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. What irritates me
are the commercials on television that make men look stupid.
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. amen - it's the new reverse sexism
although some of them are "true" and funny
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Well I am sure most guys dont slip on ice that easily
Oh wait I always do somehow.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Even if they're true and funny,
and I'm not sure they really are, reverse sexism or discrimination is never acceptable. I don't think men are bumbling, stumbling, stupid idiots that always need women to guide and correct them and I think it's insulting when they're portrayed that way.
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. amen again - guess I'm starting to get brainwashed
by the corporate media.
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ffm172 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. isn't there a investigation
that says women fancy the macho guys but marry the "wimp"?
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. some of the women do, and then some don't and regret it nt
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ffm172 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. that's why I went more for the intelligent guys
so when I marry, I won't regret it (at least not for those reasons)
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FuzzySlippers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. Awwww....quit your sniveling and whining
and act like a man. :P
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. Very true, and I'm sure
it sucks for a lot of men. Such group expectations are never fair to the group members. I especially hate it when liberal men are considered to be "pansies", "wussies", "limp-dick", etc., etc. I'm the single mother of a teenage son and I was shocked the other day when he said he never cries even if he feels like it. When I asked why, he said it wasn't "manly", men weren't supposed to do that. That really floored me, because he's never, ever learned that from me. I've tried to teach him the opposite, as a mantter of fact, that there is nothing at all wrong with men showing their emotions, that it was perfectly okay. I realized that he had to be getting it from the society around him, movies, TV shows, books, magazines, other kids, school, etc., etc.

Keep in mind, though, that society also has impossible, ridiculous expectations of women as well.
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. you are 100% right in every respect nt
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ffm172 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. My heart always goes out to guys who cry
or show emotions. That was always a turn on for me
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. William Pollack writes very eloquently about the "gender straightjacket"
... our society forces boys into.

His book is called "Real Boys: Rescuing Our Sons from the Myths of Boyhood "

Here's part of the Kirkus Reviews write-up:

Following in the footsteps of Carol Gilligan, a study showing that boys learn to hide their real selves and may suffer from it more than girls do. Schools, parents, and society fail boys by demanding that they fit into an unwritten "Boy Code," says psychiatrist Pollack (co-director of the Center for Men at Harvard Medical School). The code challenges boys to be self-reliant and confident, risk takers, powerful and dominant and unemotional. The toughening process begins as early as preschool, when according to Pollack, boys are encouraged to separate from their parents — in particular their mothers — far too early and are shamed into hiding their fears and sorrow.

The shaming process (don't be a 'wimp,' don't be a 'wuss') continues into adulthood, perpetuated sometimes unconsciously by parents, teachers, and peers. Boys can become confused, frustrated, lonely, sad, and disconnected as they learn to bury feelings and behavior that would lead to taunts or teasing. Their confusion can lead to actions that on one end of the scale are characterized as "boys will be boys" — calling out in class, daring each other to new exploits — but on the other end are violent and suicidal. School statistics, which show far more boys than girls diagnosed as learning disabled or emotionally disturbed, support Pollack's findings.

The book is divided into three parts, the first an overview of the Boy Code and its effect on boys' development. The second section gives advice to mothers and fathers on how to offset social pressure, so boys can develop into their "real selves." Part three is a discussion of sadness, suicide, and depression, often misdiagnosed in boys, because they may try tohide it with bravado. There is a section generally approving sports as molder of boys' character but warning of tyrannical and insensitive coaches, and a section on homosexuality....
Source:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=gu5fpeLAht&isbn=0805061835&itm=1


What I like about him is he doesn't seem to fall into the "boys-against-girls" trap. Too many people believe that helping girls achieve is somehow an "attack" on boys. Or that in order to help boys, we need to stop helping girls.

We shouldn't be pitting our children against each other, IMO, and I think Pollack has found a very positive way to address the issue.
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progmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
22. Aren't you stereotyping women by saying we stereotype you?
;)
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steve2470 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. some of the non-DU ladies do, yes
and of course, some of the non-DU men stereotype women

and....I'm still learning about you ladies.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. I think macho is disgusting, and that is changing. Jude Law,
Edited on Sun Mar-06-05 04:19 PM by tjdee
and many of the younger actors, are not macho and kick very little ass.

But then, I also hate men. This minute. Ask me again later.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. George Carlin said...
Women are all nuts. Every single one of them-- simply crazy.

And, why are they crazy?

Mainly, because men are stupid.

Which brings me to another question-- late at night, when we are dozing off after the exertion, women ask us stuff. Serious stuff, to them, that we have no answer for even if we can stay awake. But, they insist on an answer or they get all pissed off.

So, how do lesbians ever get any sleep?



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