Post evidence that non-human animals are intelligent or wise.

I'll just give you a little evidence of intelligence from our cat, Buster. When he was less than a year old, he was chasing and being chased around our apartment by his big "sister" Perfect. She finally got him trapped behind the Ottoman. They could see each other underneath, and I could see that she was watching him intently, waiting for his next move. I noticed that Buster was alternating his attention between Perfect, underneath the Ottoman, and the top of the Ottoman. Suddenly, he leaped up in the air and over the Ottoman, giving Perfect the surprise of her life.

Didn't it take some kind of intelligence to make that calculation, and to figure out that he could get to her by going over the Ottoman, rather than around or under it?

There is no recorded evidence that any house pet has ever sat through an entire episode of American Idol. On the other hand, tens of millions of supposedly human beings do so each and every night its on.

:headbang:

:toast:

:P

If that ain't smart, I don't know what is!

I know what they want when they ask for it.

HA!:D

The setting: I had two cats: a kitten, around 7 months old, and an old Tom, about 4 years old. I then fostered a mother cat and her four kittens for Seattle Animal Control. The mother cat hated my 7 month old kitten -- I think he tried to play with her kittens and was too rough for her likes.
The mom cat and my 7-month old kitten would get into staring contests; that mom cat did not like that kitten bit. One time while they were staring at each itching for a fight, the old Tom walked right between them and stood there. This stopped the staring contest. I have no doubt that the old Tom knew what he was doing --- he wanted to stop the fighting and did it in a very peaceful effective way. That's thinking.

That seems like an unusually peaceful move for a male cat, according to the stereotype. They have a reputation for being dangerous to kittens in particular. But I've known several males who were the sweetest, gentlest creatures. And others who were clearly Republicans.

Animals are competitive by nature.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

they do like to fight with each other.

'nuff said.

You wouldn't catch a dog giving a Hummer H2 consideration based on the bitches he'd get. No cat would drive a BMW. Zip codes don't matter. Show me a cow that would get off on Prada, or any other brand. Yeah, we're MUCH smarter than they are.

My dogs also know what my car sounds like. They stick with learned behaviour, while we can't seem to learn from our own mistakes <cough> Bush <cough>

Animals can be horribly status-driven.

Tucker

Baboons, for instance, base much of their mental health on their social status. That is, low-status baboon will be less active than a higher-status one and have higher blood levels of cortisol (stress hormone) and lower brain levels of serotonin than those with higher status. If they were human, this would be considered depression. Baboons will also do all kinds of social manipulation to gain status in their troop.

And have you ever seen a crow who's just found a big piece of food? He'll fluff up the feathers on his head and strut around in view of other crows, then fly off to eat it alone.

Tucker

Who passes on genetics, who eats first, gets the prime sleeping spot. That's survival. Driving a Hummer isn't survival, it's ego.

People buy Hummers because they believe it will help them pass on their genes. Oh, they may not be thinking, "This Hummer will enable me to pass on my genes with healthier females, and more of them!"--but then, a bowerbird who's making a bigger, bluer bower than his neighbor isn't thinking, "This will really optimize my chances for passing on my genes!" either.

Tucker

It lays out the emotional complexity that, until recently, was completely invisible to most humans.

For instance, saying, "I throw!" and then tossing books off the computer desk, or saying, "Gotta potty" in the car to tell us he needs to stop and go to the bathroom. In other words, he makes plans, informs us of those plans in a mutually comprehensible language, then carries out the plans. He has also said, "Don't gotta potty" when I asked and he didn't have to go, and he answers yes/no questions by either saying, "Yeah" or shaking his head no.

Tucker

I wish I could have birds. My mother is deathly allergic to birds, and would never be able to visit if I had them. :( I would love an African Gray.

Cockatoos in general aren't known as great talkers, but Gideon is very verbal.

Tucker

I propose a toast to Gideon--or, more simply put, "I toast."

:toast:

Is this a common cockatoo trait? I've heard parrots are very intelligent, but that is frighteningly intelligent.

That way my teenager comes running down to grab it!
After she leaves, the parrot laughs up a storm with me.

Here's a transcript of the show:
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~jel/nova.html

Here's an excerpt:

"...NARRATOR: Chimps do acquire complex skills in the wild, but this happens slowly, over many years. Some groups have learned to use stones as hammers and anvils to crack nuts. In Atlanta, they found that Konzi was able to grasp such a skill with amazing ease by watching a demonstration and then trying it for himself in the forest.

Konzi was also able to make his own tools after watching a demonstration by a visiting archaeologist. He went on to show particular insight and creativity in his approach to problem-solving. He was presented with this puzzle box, held closed by a strong rope. He quickly caught on to the solution, and also found his own way of making a sharp tool by throwing, rather than striking the stones together in his hand. His way was just as effective. Konzi's ability to observe tool use and quickly adapt it for his own purposes is very significant. This facility is not seen in wild chimpanzees, only in those who have been exposed to human culture. Perhaps we are seeing in a chimpanzee the same stages of learning that our ancestors must have experienced. ..."


"...Before she was brought here, Washoe had already given birth
to two infants, neither of whom lived beyond a few weeks. The second baby died after being taken away from her for medical treatment. It was Roger Fouts's job to make Washoe understand what had happened.

ROGER FOUTS, Central Washington University: I had to go back the next
morning, and she was very depressed, of course, and quite, quite alone, not signing with anybody. And so I went in, and she came up to me, her eyes lit up. She came up to me and she said, `Baby, holding, holding.' And it was a question, she was saying, basically, `Where's my baby?' And I had to tell her, I said, `He's dead. He's finished.' And with that, the baby sign literally dropped into her lap, her head dropped, and she moved away into the corner and stopped signing. ..."

or dogs who kill other dogs for fun. But I did hear on the National Geographic Channel's The Dark Side of Chimpanzees (I immediately thought of *) that chimps can and do murder other chimps--just for fun!

Housecats hunt rodents and birds, regardless of how well fed they are. They do it for sport, out of instinct, perhaps for "fun."

Edit --- I misread your message -- sorry.

...for anyone who has watched Chimpy over the past four years!

:puke:

From my old Gordon Setter of all things. Tintin displayed exceptional intelligence, but he did something I've never seen another animal do - ever. I let him in one day and he was limping very badly and acting like he was in severe pain. I immediately freaked and was on my knees examining him. He suddendly yanked his paw away and was jumping up and down, tail wagging and while snorted in glee. He played a practical joke on me! The first evidence I've ever had that animals really do have a sense of humor.

I'm sure that the harassment part speaks to a lack of intelligence but Bill O'Rielly couldn't sign the word Loofah so...perhaps the guerrilla is one up in the one-ups-manship ranks of misogynist assholes. Evolution, I hear, is an uneven process. :P

"Man always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars and so on - while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reason."

The dog ("Molly") would go along in the car when my mother went shopping, and as a reward for behaving, Molly would get a McDonald's hamburger from the drive through.

One hot day I was out shopping with my mom, and she said that she wanted to go through the drive through and get an "ice cream" cone from McDonald's. I'm not a McDonald's fan, but I'll never turn down a frozen dessert on a hot day, so I said that I wanted one, too.

We picked up two cones and drove to a corner of the parking lot to eat them.

As soon as Molly saw that we were headed for the drive through, she jumped to attention in the back seat and began wagging her tail. When we drove away with just ice cream cones, she gave a yelp and started whimpering. She would not shut up.

My ice cream cone was not that good, so I turned around and held it out to Molly.

She tossed her head indignantly and lay down with her head facing the back of the seat. I kept coaxing her to take the ice cream cone, but she wouldn't look in my direction.

Finally, I got out of the car and bought her a hamburger, and all was well with the world.

My mother made pancakes every Sunday. She always made Blossom a stack too. But, the old girl would not touch them unless my mother put butter and syrup on them in her bowl. She did lots of things that made a person realize that animals are thinking and reasoning beings also. We humans ain't so damn special.

Gideon and I just got home from a walk to the grocery store. It got dark while we were shopping and talking to people, so I called a cab to go home. As we pulled out of the parking lot, Gidi looked back at the store and said, "Bye-bye store!" the cabbie cracked up laughing!

Incidentally, "Bye-bye store" is a novel combination of words. Gideon has used "bye-bye" contextually for a long time, but he's never said it to a store before!

Tucker

She will retrieve the correct one if I ask for it by name. Or, if I hide them and tell her to find a specific one, she will find the one I requested.

his owners vehicle at 60mph and lived took some intelligence!!!!!

"Case closed", as Milpool would say.


This is Milpool, by the way:

http://www.pbs.org/saf/1201/video/watchonline.htm

Scroll Down to "Entertaining Parrots," click on "Play Video" and watch Dr. Irene Pepperberg and Alan Alda interact with Alex the African grey. :) It's a great little video.

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_ob...

<http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_ob... >

Sheep can get quite emotional, ewe know

Mar 14 2005

Daniel Davies, Western Mail

SHEEP experience complex human emotions like love, scientists have
discovered.

Ewes fall in love with rams, sheep have best friends and they feel sad
when members of the flock die or are slaughtered, studies have found.

Electrodes were inserted into sheep's brains to measure activity when
they were stimulated.

Sheep were shown pictures of rams they were closely associated with or
sheep in their group of "friends".

Scientists at the Babraham Research Institute in Cambridge recorded the
animals' brain activity when they were shown the pictures.

intelligence or emotions. They need some justification for eating them.

was the smallest of my cats, as she had been the runt and her momma died when she was a week old. I managed to keep her and her brother alive, though, and I was always delighting in their escapades.

Kira liked to be close to me, and she was the only one who would climb onto me and sleep on my shoulder. After I'd take a shower, she would jump from floor level all the way to my shoulder and lick my wet hair.

She always hung around me at the computer--I put a throw on the top of the 2 drawer file cabinet which used to be next to the desk, and she would sleep on it.

After awhile, a couple of the other cats were bold enough to take her spot, and she would get mad. Because she was smaller than them, she couldn't attack them directly--she would have been whooped quickly. So instead, she learned to "pester" them. She'd come up, cry a little, rub herself against them, and then she'd leave them alone--for a short while. She would keep doing it, over and over again, "pacing" in between her "attacks" on them. Finally, even the biggest of them, Garibaldi, wold just give up and get down. He weighed about three times more than she did, so it was funny to watch her go "after" him. When the others would leave, Kira would climb onto "her" spot and go to sleep.

Cats show remarkable ability to think. If you're a multi-cat owner, you know pretty well all of their individual personalities and quirks.

on the futon couch. She'll hop up on my lap. Tolerate a few scratches, then hop down on the floor at my feet and lay on her side. She seems to know that I'm a sucker and will get down on the floor to resume petting her. Once I'm down, though, she hops up and takes my place. She seems to learn.

I, on the other hand, never learn. :evilfrown:

When their peanut box is empty, they find the room I'm in and sit in front of that window. Their little paws clasped as if to say "please fill our box". Too cute.

That either proves humans are intelligent OR that there IS a God!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2839115

I went into the bedroom. My older cat Lily was lying on the pillow waiting for me to bring a glass of water to bed. The Bose radio was on to a light rock station. I didn't turn it on . . .

Pad Thai enjoys turning on the radio and working the controls. He doesn't know precisely which controls do what, but he knows if he walks on the radio he might be able to change something about the alarm that wakes me up in the morning. If I don't wake up in time to make my first web post in the morning I usually decide to work from home that day.

In his walking he likes a specific radio station and always selects it (!) when he can. Sometimes he doesn't get it right, but he'll keep trying till he gets his station.

The station plays light Jesus rock. Is he trying to tell me something?

I've never had a dog do that before.

He was the smartest dog I have ever had (he passed away 18 years ago today :cry: ).

He loved to retrieve and when we were out walking in the woods he would look for a stick, rip the branches off of it and break it down to a good throwing size.

He recognized all of his squeak toys by name. I would amaze friends by lining up 10 of his toys and tell Smokey to go get the boat, or whatever. He was right every time.

He also "talked". He would sit down in front of you, look you right in the eye and vocalize. He was amazing and he died way too young. He was 7.

No wonder you miss him.

Yeah, he was truly one of a kind.