is Grand Rapids, MI, a good place for a bed-wettin liberal?

I am SO not into living in Florida anymore and know I could get a part-time job with an employer I used to work for who has a branch in Grand Rapids. That job would be a fairly good base under my other work of freelance copy editing. I notice from browsing the internet and also perusing the Chamber of Commerce info that was sent to me that Grand Rapids seems kind of artsy--Calder statues around the place and so on.

I'm a New England gal at heart and came to Florida both to appease my Jamaican husband (but now we are divorcing) and to work for the Univ. of Florida, but I'm getting real sick of that place.

DUers, insights? the cost of renting doesn't appear too astronomical there.

everyone in micigan is mean

also, i did some wireing for some department stores there, they ALL have little ladders and peep windows into dressing rooms, they call that loss pervention

I'm pretty nice.

Of the Midwestern smug variety. You're going to have to deal with the belief that only Dutch people are going to heaven. Change your name to Ima VanSinnic and get a bumper sticker that says "If you ain't Dutch, you ain't much" and you'll be OK.

--so far I see little to recommend Grand Rapids to someone of my "ilk" :(

...you'd only be 2 hours away from Ann Arbor, an oasis of liberalism in the midwest.

... that was about 1990. I was thinking of applying to graduate school there.
but I know about living 2 hours from an oasis, having lived in Orlando, which is 2 hours from Gainesville. very very frustrating and a constant irritating feeling that I was out of place, "so near and yet so far."

still there are dems out there too. I went to a Kerry rally there and there were TONS of people there, including hard-core dems. Do you mind being in the minority politically? The cost of living is pretty cheap in western MI.

It's also very religious. I know someone who wanted to run for a small township position in an suburb area and he was told he wouldn't ever get elected unless he was active in a church.

Edited to add this link that strongly recommends liberals stay away from Grand Rapids - http://www.cjnetworks.com/~cubsfan/places/grand_rapids.html

reading the comments there left NO DOUBT at all that I will throw the Grand Rapids C of C booklet in the recycling bin and completely eradicate any thought of moving there, or even visiting "to check it out," out of my mind!

that link will be very handy in my quest to find MY place, thanks again!

haven but at least polite with a 50/50 split.

Politics is old southern boy screw the public, but still only in a low energy mode.

Change the Name to Greek version and hang out in St. Pete/Clearwater/
Tarpon Springs area! Nice UU church's in area if that is important.

Getting back into NE is costly - and jobs are not easy to get! But the air you breath is a bit more "free" than in other parts of the country.

Of course major firms are now testing if NE jobs of the high tech/high math/ legal/ and US gov regulatory consulting can be moved to India - a process called "process and procedure improvement" (don't ask how I know this - it is a long sad story!)

... I've been kind of working toward moving to Tampa as a kind of compromise between moving really far away, which would be costly, and staying here in Gainesville, which is liberal and everything but just getting very stale and jobs aren't that plentiful. So, yes, Tampa would be good and maybe I could save to escape to some backwoods part of Maine somehow, which is where my heart really lies.

jobs in the area.

Absolutely beautiful area - and homes are cheap - but its only for self-employed unless you did a better job of saving than I have done.!

That is a beautiful area. Most of Maine is great for natural beauty. It's such a shame that they are wrecking Florida's natural beauty with all these poorly planned developments.

Most of Maine is also lacking in jobs. Florida has more jobs, but these jobs are mostly crappy service jobs. I actually think it is easier to get a job in Maine, having grown up there. Everything is so much more personal there. You wouldn't apply for a job on the Internet there. You'd go in and and actually speak to the person that is responsible for hiring new employees.

I had forgotten how far north Baxter State Park went - and how hard it was to drive into the North east edge!

Wonderful area - a great place to live now that we have Direct TV!

"Town" is not empty - a 5 mile radious circle might find 205 folks - at least that is what they claim!

That is where I am from. I feel the same way about Maine too. I would so rather live in the boonies in Maine and be poor than put up with any of these cities.

Tampa isn't that great, I think, but probably better than Gainesville. Although, I think that the prettiest part of this state is the pan handle area because it is the least developed. It's unfortunate that there are so many repubs there. I live in Orlando. My father-in-law and his family (my husband's step mom and his half-sister who is 9) live in the Tampa area. Tampa seems to be just like Orlando, only it is on the coast, which makes it better I suppose (except when there is a hurricane). There is still lots of crime and bad schools there too.

--first in Portland, then for several years in Orono, where I got a Masters degree. I love Maine!!

I got my bachelor's degree there from the college of Engineering. I lived in Maine from the day I was born until three years ago when we move to Florida, which means I lived there for 23 years. I grew up in central Maine, near the Bangor area. My father and brother still live in that area, as do many of my friends. I have lived in both Orono and Old Town while going to college. I would like to live in that area again. My mom lives in the Portland area, Westbrook actually. That area is not so bad either.

--I rented a tiny house in Argyle, about 8 miles from Orono, and also a cabin in GreenSomething (can't remember off the top of my head), and even lived for a time in the heart of Orono, the old 3-story brick building that for a time was threatened by a Walgreen or CVS plan to demolish and build an unnecessary additional drug store. I rented the top "attic" floor, what a neat place! And, yes, Portland is great, but quickly becoming quite expensive from what I understand.

he's such a champion of our state, after all. :eyes:

I lived in Brookline in the mid to late 70s and worked for various printing companies in Boston and South Boston, hung out at the Plough and Stars and also was a wannabe groupie of John Lincoln Wright -- if I could turn back the hands of time I would go back to Boston in the 70s. I suspect I couldn't afford even an appliance crate under a bridge there now, though. I lived in the cheapest apartment building in Brookline, at 83 Harvard St.--one of my friends, another tenant, made inquiries at City Hall and found out the details of rent control and so on and mentioned this fact to me. I took over an apartment from an old lady who had lived there since the 1930s so the rent had not been allowed to be raised very much.

Brookline and Cambridge are brutally expensive now. A few months ago I posted a picture of the least expensive one family in Brookline ($950K). The description: 'gut rehab or demolish'... yeah, it's THAT bad!

I still occasionally go to the Plough and Stars. It hasn't changed much since the '70s. :-)

:-(

In Greenville to be exact.

I would like to respectfully disagree with a previous poster that all Michiganders are mean. I was born and raised in the Upper Peninsula and married a great woman from Greenville. We spent 12 years in the ultra conservative state of Utah and loved it. I am as liberal as it gets.

As demographics go... Grand Rapids has a strong repuke base. There are communities in the surrounding area that are less conservative. Holland is most likely the most conservative area near Grand Rapids.

I love Greenville... it seems to have a even distribution of Dems and Repugs. Your question reminds me of a story I read years ago...

A man needed to relocate to a distant city because of his job..... he wanted to find out what kind of people lived in that city so he was directed to a great wise man and was told he would be able to help him. He found this man and ask him what kind of people lived in his town. The wise man answered with a question..."What kind of people lived in the town that you came from?"... The man stated that the people were kind and compassionate. In fact he hated to leave the place and wouldn't if his job wasn't a factor. The wise man said not to worry... he would find his new home just as kind and compassionate.

The following day... a different man approached the wise man with exactly the same situation. When the wise man asked him how he thought the people were in the town he was coming from... the man said
"Terrible, the people are cold and rude. They never help others and I am happy to leave the place." The wise man said... "Well, don't expect anything different here."


With that.... good luck in your search. I love camping and fishing and West Michigan is a wonderful place for that. I can be fishing on a stream within five minutes of Greenville and think I am at a remote location in the U.P..

Winters suck... but the summers by far make up for it.

We can always use another Democrat here...and if you choose to relocate... email me.... I would be happy show you around.

:toast:

--that was one of the things I loved about Orono, Maine -- 5 minutes and I was in the woods.
yes, your wise story rings true--we will find the kind of people we expect to find.
:hi:

Bad bad place for a liberal. Stay away. Royal Oak or Ferndale are far better places for liberals.

I moved from Florida to Michigan 16 yrs ago tomorrow. I live close to Ann Arbor. I visit Grand Rapids pretty often for Steelhead fishing and I have to say it is a nice city but a pretty repug place.

I think the job situation is better than what Detroit has to offer but the pay is not as high. Good luck with what you decide but, for me I'd be glad to have another liberal in MI.

Though we do make monthly visits to A2 for an anime festival. :hi:

I actually live closer to Jackson than AA. I didn't think the original poster would know where that was. Besides, who whats to admit their town is the birthplace of the repug party?

more conservative than Florida. I've never been there, but my husband's family is from there and that's the impression that I get when I hear them talk about Michigan.

I'm also a New England gal who is living in Florida. We're going to be moving back to New England in two months, so I'm excited. I've been living in Florida for three years now. I think that there are a lot of conservatives here compared to where I was from, but we are not moving away just for that reason. Crime rates are pretty high in all Florida's cities and the schools are substandard when compared to most schools in the north east. Also, the homes are so expensive here and most of them are in those awful home owners associations, which I want nothing to do with. I could not put up with having my neighbors dictate to me what I am allowed to do with my property. I'd also be afraid of my home getting wrecked by some hurricane or sink hole. Mostly, I don't want my son to grow up here. I would like to be able to give my son the same kind of upbringing that I had. I will never be able to give him the same kind of freedoms I had as a child if we continue to live here.

People will walk up to you and criticize you for cutting your lawn on Sunday. They moved Holloween because it fell on a Sunday.

not having a perfectly kept lawn, or the color you painted your house. Or maybe your vehicle isn't pretty enough for them. They are all constantly worried about their property values, but mostly they want your property to look the same as their's so that they'll be accepted by their snooty friends.

I never lived among a bigger bunch of busy-bodies than here in Florida. Everything is so "manicured," down to cutesy little stepping stones across the grass into the laundromat and fake brick walkways at all the intersections. Letting a lawn "go native" would probably result in major lawsuits and fines. The most ridiculous thing is living in a climate like this and not hanging your clothes out to dry, year-round. Try to find one clothesline in the entire state. What a waste! It's 85 degrees out, sunny and breezy, and people are running dryers. But try to put up a clothesline in your own yard. It seems the world will end or something if you have something that "low class."

My grandma needed her lawn mowed on a regular basis and I could only do it on Sundays. She was cheap as they come, but she paid someone else to do it instead of letting me do it for free on Sundays.

She also wouldn't shop or go out to eat on a Sunday. And that is pretty darn common.

there is absolutely no sense of community here in Florida, it is all strip malls and a rat race of rushing around between those and tacky subdivisions. can't wait to get OUT OF HERE!

I feel the same way about this place. There is no sense of community.

I lived there for one year, about 96 to 97, working for the USDA-ARS lab that used to be there (it was established way back when, pre-Disney, when central Florida was actually a citrus growing area, and relocated to Fort Pierce in about 1998 or 99). Orlando just seemed rush-rush rat-race with no community feeling whatsoever. Disney, Universal and the rest of the theme parks held no interest for me so the place just didn't do it for me at all.

You might like Kalamazoo because it is a college town and not so conservative. Also much prettier than Grand Rapids. Yes, that whole area is quite puritan in many ways. I don't remember any stores being open on Sunday when I was a kid, but that was all changing as the times were catching up.
I moved from Michigan to the Keys twenty years ago and haven't had one regret since. But I would go insane if I had to live in Miami or Ft. Lauderdale. Maybe you should consider a change of cities.
P.S. We spend a lot of time in New England and Michigan is nothing like New England. Miles and miles of boring farmland in the Grand Rapids area, outside of the not so pretty city. (sorry to all the Grand Rapiders I may be offending here, but that is just my opinion).

--"boring farmland" doesn't sound too great.
thanks.

including the great lakes of course. And they are pretty. But my biggest reason for leaving wasn't the cold or snow or landscape, but the grey skies eight or nine months out of the year. It was just so depressing.

but I compare that to NW Ohio and Toledo..which is nothing but flat lands with few trees/woods and a very not so pretty city.

We lived in a burb of GR for a few years and enjoyed it. We'd probably still be there if hubby's plant hadn't closed.

Been in WA since fall of '98.

I haven't spent a huge amount of time in GR - but that's mostly because I never *liked* it there. I don't have ANY reason not to like it - it just didn't "feel" right to me, I guess. I wouldn't want to move to GR - but couldn't tell you why in any way that would make sense. There is no rational reason for it.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Kalamazoo - and I miss it. Kalamazoo, like GR, is considered a "conservative" area (fuckers went for Bush in Nov!) - but as a die hard liberal I never really saw/felt much of a conservative backlash in my daily life. There are so many liberals there I still find it hard to believe it's very conservative. I suspect it is at LEAST 50/50 dem/con there.

get outside of the city and I bet it's at least 80/20 rep/dem.

:hi:

We could have a reunion! I liked Kalamazoo but hated the dreary winters in Michigan. I moved to Jackson Michigan my last two years due to work, and if you think Grand Rapids is bad, try Jackson. Which, by the way is the town where the GOP was born. Groan.

The following is my personal opinion. Your experience may vary.


Worst place I've ever lived in terms of crime, pollution and general ugliness of the city.
Carjackings, shootings, prostitution. Blocks of burned out buildings.

I was absolutely shocked at how bleak it was. I was expecting to move to a "different" Michigan, one with lakes and trees and fresh air.

Overall, some of the most unfriendly people I've come across.

The sun NEVER shines in the winter. Really. Look it up.

Customer service is overall poor in stores and restaurants.

The Amway cult owns major chunks of the city. The Grand Rapids Press is a right wing rag.

There is a very good medical community, especially if you've been shot or stabbed.
A few good restaurants.

The morning we left, I cranked up the car radio to full blast, floored it and have never looked back.

--but this would definitely have to clinch it! it sounds absolutely horrible! UGH!

I wonder if anyone has ever done an analysis of possible correlation between urban blight and repuke control of a city? I noticed in Orlando they never rehabilitate the inner city, which also has large areas of blight like what you describe, but just keep expanding outward. that is so wasteful, it breaks my heart to see waste and decay like that.

In Kalamazoo there were areas that used to be high priced with beautiful homes back in the 30's and 40's. As people went to the suburbs, they fell into disrepair and eventually became the 'ghetto'. Then when no one was willing to live there anylonger, a few wealthy individuals or companies would pick up entire city blocks, "restore" them, and sell them for outrages prices. So I guess that is financially the way to make a buck from city blight all over the US.

Hated it, but didn't understand why until I moved to Boston for grad school.

The area is VERY conservatively religious. I think they have the largest number of chuches per captia than just about anywhere. I was raised Presbyterian, but the dominant denomination is Reformed or Christian Reformed. There is also a Catholic presence. But, when I was there, no Jews, at least I never met a single one while growing up. It didn't occur to me as unusual at the time, because everyone we knew was just like us: white and protestant Christian.

I know the demographics have changed in the 15 years since I left, but every time I go home to visit my family, I go a little bit bonkers around town.

There are pretty parts of town - I enjoy East Grand Rapids, Easttown, Heritage Hill; and there are some fugly parts of town - Wyoming, Grandville, mainly the western burbs.

There is no real public transportation to speak of. When I went to the Junior College, I was able to do a park-and-ride thing, but the busses stopped running at 6:00 pm and didn't even run at all on Sundays!

My eyes were opened to a whole new world when I left GR. Boston has a hugely diverse population. In my apartment building, on my floor alone we have a Lebanese couple with two children, a Chinese couple with two children (the kids and parents get along great), a black man with his grown daughter, a single mom with her two young daughters, two gay men (not partners - separate apartments) and a few single retirees. My next door neighbor is Iranian. And that's just on my floor!

GR wasn't really such a bad place to grow up in the 70s - we kids were safe all over the neighborhood, since all of our moms kept a watchful eye out the kitchen window. Funny, that's one thing that drives me crazy when I'm home - those same moms are still watching out the window. They know which car belongs to the neighbor's boyfriend and they notice if that car stays in the driveway overnight. Once when I was in high school and my parents were out of town for the weekend, one of my buddies stayed overnight. We just hung out and watched movies, no booze, no drugs. But I'll be damned, one of our snooty neighbors ratted me out by noon the next day. There are no secrets on my parent's street - everybody knows everybody's shit. I'm a little happier with my relative anonymity here in Boston.

My advice is to stay away from Grand Rapids.

It is a horrible place for a liberal. But, sometimes our jobs require us to move places we wouldn't otherwise choose. However, if it can be avoided, I would do so at all costs.

even non bed-wetting liberals are abused in Grand Rapids....the home of Amway and Jim Bakkker.