DU Catholics... Are the last rites and 'Holy Viaticum' one and the same?

ChoralScholar

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Fri Apr-01-05 01:45 AM
Original message

DU Catholics... Are the last rites and 'Holy Viaticum' one and the same?

Edited on Fri Apr-01-05 02:15 AM by ChoralScholar

I read earlier today that the Pope had been given 'last rites'. Most everyone said that it did not mean he was nearly dead, just very sick.

Now, since his heart attack, I've seen references to a 'Holy Viaticum' which is given to those close to death.

Clarity anyone?

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Book Lover

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Fri Apr-01-05 01:46 AM
Response to Original message

1. too tired to recall exactly but

catholic.com has all the answers.

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JohnKleeb

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Fri Apr-01-05 01:46 AM
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2. I wish I could help

but last rites doesnt nesscary mean you will die but it means you are on your last legs I think, President Kennedy was given last rites a couple times I believe.

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KitchenWitch

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Fri Apr-01-05 01:49 AM
Response to Original message

3. As far as I know, they changed the name of the sacrament

from the Last Rites to the Annointing of the Sick. Meaning death does not need to be imminent in order to receive the Sacrament.

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4_Legs_Good

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Fri Apr-01-05 01:49 AM
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4. Never heard of a Holy Viaticum

Last rights is the common name for the 7th sacrament which if I wasn't drunk I would know the real name of. oh what is it?

...something of the sick.

Anyway, "Last rights"...

oh, it's "annointing of the sick" btw.

doesn't in this day and age imply that death is imminent, though it could be. It can be given when you're unconcious, and even after you've just died, I believe.

Anyway, if the Vatican is giving the last rights, though, I bet he's not far from gone, barring some breakthrough.

Good luck PJPII. I hope 2005 turns out better than 1978.

david

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ChoralScholar

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Fri Apr-01-05 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #4

5. The reason I ask - quoting from the Reuters report:

"Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said the 84-year-old Pope had been given the "Holy Viaticum" -- communion reserved for those close to death -- and had decided himself not to go to hospital for treatment"

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4_Legs_Good

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Fri Apr-01-05 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #5

6. Never heard of it

but it's definitely different from "Last Rights"

If he has decided to not go to the hospital, he is, IMO, definitely dying. If he goes unconcious, they may take him anyway, but if he has explicitly says he does not want to go to the hospital, I don't expect he'll last the week.

Wow! I didn't know it was so serious.

Get ready for some black smoke

david

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xmas74

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Fri Apr-01-05 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #6

8. Yep. Black smoke will be on the horizon soon.

Didn't always agree w/ him but will still miss him(the former Catholic part of me will, at least-old habits are hard to break).

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Dogmudgeon

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Fri Apr-01-05 02:02 AM
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7. Traveller's meal metaphor

"Viaticum" comes from the Latin word "to go". It's like the gift of a meal given to a traveller before his/her departure. Holy Communion is already a sacrament with a metaphorical connection to eating.

The idea is that the person will be leaving the Earth for the next part of his/her journey to the afterlife.

According to the church, a dying person can receive one Viaticum each 24 hours, although it isn't an obligation.

--p!

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bridgit

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Fri Apr-01-05 02:07 AM
Response to Original message

9. not viatcum; viaticum

http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/viaticum.htm

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ChoralScholar

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Fri Apr-01-05 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #9

10. sorry.. just mistyped... fixing now.

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tjwmason

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Fri Apr-01-05 05:14 AM
Response to Original message

11. Not quite

The last rites are 3 sacraments administered to a person who is nearly dead, or in danger of death. Viaticum is one of these 3, and is simply Holy Communion. The other two are absolution (the sacrament of penance), and unction (anointing).

Previously unction would only be given to those in danger of death (when it is called Extreme Unction) but after VaticanII it moved to be administered to any ill person - though it is still given to those in danger of death.

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regnaD kciN

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Fri Apr-01-05 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #11

12. Generally, if someone's condition is critical...

...they'll give all three together.

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tjwmason

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Fri Apr-01-05 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #12

13. Exactly

'The Last Rites' are all three - usually administered at point of death (hence the name).

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