Need Advice,my kid is SO angry with me...

My 10 YO daughter has been friends with this girl for a long time, she's a real nice kid, a little odd, but very nice. Her family is MAJOR Fundie (the mom spends every Saturday "saving souls" door to door). Anyway, it's this girls' birthday this coming weekend and they've invited my daughter to go camping with them. Problem is there are a few people from their church going too. I told my daughter no, and she is SO angry. My husband thinks I'm making a big deal about nothing (but still backs me up). What do you all think?

Fundies have huge sex hangups and you're only sending your daughter into harm's way if you let her go camping with them. I know, when I was a kid I used to live across the street from a Baptist minister and his three daughters.

I'm not worried about her coming back "converted" I'm worried about her coming back molested.
On edit: Am I paranoid or what?!

I'm with you.

I think it's very reasonable of you to not want your daughter to go camping with adults you don't know. Or even adults you do know but aren't comfortable with. Particularly though with adults you haven't even met.

On the other hand, I used to regularly go to a Mormon girls' camp and I had a blast and never turned into a Mormon. I mean I went year after year. I loved it. It was a girls' camp though - there weren't any men at all.

I don't think I'd allow my daughter to go, but religion wouldn't be the reason.

I don't have kids and don't plan on having any, but letting your daughter go off into the woods with religious fundamentalists is a recipe for disaster. Why are they going into the woods with members of their church to celebrate a birthday? It doesn't sound right to me.

My first instinct, which is probably a bad one, would be to bribe your kid. Offer to take them to Chuck E. Cheese the next weekend, or offer to throw a little shindig at your house.

If that doesn't work, simply tell your daughter the truth - the girl's parents are possibly mentally and emotionally unstable due to their extreme religious beliefs and you do not believe it is safe to be alone with them. I think a 10-year old could handle that.

thanks!

can? Perhaps she'll just have a good time.

If you feel comfortable with your decision, go with it. If you're still doubtful, perhaps you should consult your pastor. :evilgrin:

Above all, tell your daughter why you don't want her to go. 10 is old enough to hear that, isn't it? (I am not a parent.)

I'm concerned because I don't want in the woods for three days with people I don't know. The girls' mom is nice, but the dad has ALWAYS given me a weird feeling. I told my daughter that since I don't know everyone that was going to be there, she can't go.

3 days is entirely too long to let a 10-year old be away from home with people you don't know well.

I guess I misread your OP. Sorry.

Good for you, mom.

Gavin DeBecker has written a wonderful book entitled "Protecting the Gift", about using your instinct to identify dangerous situations. After reading that book, I always trust my instincts.

The last time I didn't trust my "weird feeling", I had my purse stolen.

The fact that people spout about being Christian doesn't mean they couldn't be child molesters.

I wouldn't let my daughter go off in the woods for three days with ANY other family, no matter what their religious beliefs. It wouldn't matter to me if they were Christian fundies, Jews, pagans or my own religion.

The fact that the Dad gives off a creepy vibe is just the icing on the cake. I think your explanation to your daughter was appropriate.

Everyone I have ever had a inkling about that way has turned out to be a major scum. I have never been wrong if you get a bad feeling there is a reason. Two of people I thought were dodgy were later convicted of child molestation. I would call it women's intuition but I am a man. I guess I am in touch with my feminine side. It would be better to have her mad at you then to have her hurt in some way.

I would think they'd know better than inviting 10 year old kids without their parents.

Why don't one of you go and see for yourselves? If things look bad, you can always leave.

I just got back from a cub scout camping trip yesterday. My kid went, but so did I.

girl scout campground family clean up weekend one year, and my dad had a creepy feeling about the dad of the Christian family because of the way he kept looking at me. (Hey, I was a hottie once upon a time, but men should not be looking at 14 year old girls that way.)

Lots to be gained either way, if you think you can stomach the fundies how about going too? You can give your daughter a choice, if yu might have fun together.
But if you do you are risking an ongoing problem, when she learns she can manipulate you by getting angry.
Depending on what your concerns are, as to her safety etc. depending on others there, I might just say NO and leave it at that.
You don't have to explain anything.

It shows you are taking your daughter's desire for friendship seriously, and are investing your time in the matter.

adults? That does sound a bit odd if so. I can understand the family going off on a camping trip for her birthday and inviting a couple of her same-age friends.

Here's an idea for a compromise, although it doesn't sound like much fun for YOU -- you could go yourself also, as a chaperone?

I wouldn't want my kid (if I had one) hanging out with a bunch of adults I don't know either.

their kids, and five other adults. We're considering taking her to the campground for a few hours when they do the actual "party" and staying there, but the campground is a pretty long drive away.

that adult to kid ratio is a little strange.

What's up with the five other adults? I'd wonder too.

Perhaps you guys could go camping as well and camp nearby, but not with, the fundies. That way you could keep an eye on the kids but still avoid the annoying adults?

"church friends" of this girls' parents. I suppose they want some adult company to I dunno' pray with or something.

about going on a camping trip with friends - I'm Wiccan, but we'd get together with several families and friends and do group campouts with a big potluck supper. There are group camping facilities in the national forests that are dirt cheap - and you get the site to yourself. You don't have to worry about some RV pulling in next to you and blasting a TV all night.

But you should trust your instincts. If you would let her go on a sleepover to this girls house, then maybe you should let her.

Nothing freaky about that, on its own merit.

if you are celebrating your kid's b'day and doing a kid-centric kind of thing with a bunch of other families, that's one thing. Having a primarily adult camping trip with a few kids along -- especially since she doesn't know the adults involved -- is another thing.

Mixed religions too because I socialize across the board. I like to have another kid or 2 to entertain each other (go run amuk throwing sticks at squirrels) and usually have skewed adult:kid ratios, in both directions at different times. I like the idea of camping nearby or even participating. Parents understand that other parents like to be involved with their kids too. On the other hand, if it feels wrong, go with that.

Someone said about taking her to chuck e. cheese as a bribe, but I think the best option would be just to take her there for the day and go along with her. Religion aside, you can let her spend the day with her friend and you can check out these adults and determine whether you would allow your daughter to go on future trips.

I think the only explanation needed is that you don't know these people but you're willing to take her for the day so she can have fun.

she can still get to be a part of it and you can scope out the weird adults. And even if it's a long drive, the drive itself might be enjoyable family time.

these days fundies are behaving not so subtley -- i go to a very liberal church and they used to send their teenagers to reservations to work with other kids on different projects.
inevitabley there was -- pressure -- from the fundies on the kids from my church.
and it was always a little bit of a scene because these kids really thought for themselves.

and i have a great appreciation for how i was raised -- and i gotta tell you -- i wasn't able to hang out with just any body i wanted.
and sometimes it really was because it just made my mom uncomfortable.
i got over it just fine.

Fundy or not. I don't think it's a good idea.

says I'm paranoid, and maybe I am, but I just have a BAAAAD feeling about it. Know what I'm saying?

it just seems to me like too long for such an unknown.

It's one of these Bible fellowships that have been sprouting up in our area like crabgrass.

I have a 12 year old daughter who is invited to do a lot of things, and I've learned to say "no" to some of them. Her situation is complicated because she has insulin-dependent diabetes (which she has grown very tired of dealing with), but the principle is the same: keep your child safe.

Trust your gut. It's good to reason with kids, but the bottom line is that you're the parent and you are responsible for their health and safety.

Another poster suggested alternative fun activities to make up for missing the camping trip. That has worked for me, in fact, sometimes my kids are a little relieved and happier about the substitute activity.

Good luck! (You're a good mom!)

I needed to hear that. I guess I'm feeling a little picked on with my 10YO thinking I'm the meanest mom alive and my husband telling me I'm overreacting. My gut instinct is that this is a bad situation from the second I heard about it. I'm going with that.
My daughter really wants to celebrate her friend's birthday, so I think we'll offer to take her out for pizza or a movie.
Thanks again!

Sometimes when my kids won't settle for either a reason or a basic "no," I do end up saying, "No. 'Sorry. I'm the meanest mother in the world." That usually ends the argument. :evilgrin:

daughter why you don't want her to go...


:)

what has happened to the rest of my post? it is not posting it?

They are your sixth sense.

If she was to go, I would have to go as well.

with her or not allow her to go. Her choice. However, if they are JW, they won't allow mixing anyway--at least that has been my experience with extended family members who are.

Under NO circumstances should a thinking parent ever let a 10 year old go off to a 3 day trip in the woods with a bunch of adults they don't know well and are not completely comfortable with!

If anybody in your household has any questions, refer them to any local law enforcement resource officer and/or anyone you may know in child protective services to explain the dangers.

Tell your daughter that since you just don't know everyone, the answer is NO. She is precious to you. As angry as she is, that is better than having her star in an Amber Alert.

When she is older, she will look back and admit you were right and thank you for being a parent instead of trying to be a pal. Ten year olds just don't have the life experiences to put things like this in perspective. When she is older she will brag on what a great mom you are. Trust me on this one ;)

I would drive her to the campground for the actual birthday party and bring her home after. I have used this compromise with my children when they want to spend the night with a family that we don't really know. They have always been satisfied to do that.

I would tell them sometimes I say no because to allow it would drive me crazy and since I support them financially they have a vested interest in my sanity.

It was the truth and they accepted it.

If you cave and something happens to your daughter, you'll never forgive yourself. I'm with you on the Chuck E. Cheese idea. :)

my reason would be security. Sorry but if you don't know the folks that well and more people are coming along then I think it would be better for your daughter to stay at home.

There are too many kooks out there.

Why not compromise and tell your daughter that you will take the two of them out for a nice movie and lunch as her present to the gal???

To get him to go outside and camp or even play, I'd go with him. If the parents don't welcome you to watch your kiddoe, then that's mucho weird, and you need to go home right away. Any thinking parent would completely understand you wanting to keep an eye on her.

Stick to your guns. This is a not uncommon tactic. Fundamentalist sects need to get hold of minds young before they have established their own views on the world around them. Its very likely that there is an intensive "What do you believe" session planned at the camp.

Setting aside everything everyone else has said here about the religious nature of the trip, do not let her go with people you don't know! There's plenty of opportunity to celebrate belatedly (or maybe before even?)

and I turned out alright. My neighbor was my best friend and her family was very involved in some pretty whacky church activities. They had revivals ans stuff going on almost every night of the week. Sometimes my parents would let me join them. Parts of it I remember being very fun and other parts were very alien. I remember my friend telling me before that her parents said my mom was not christian. That freaked me out. I think they tried to make me believe what they did....and it didn't work.

I think these experiences have helped mold me into the person i am today. I dont' participate in any organized religious activities. You may be underestimating your daughter. I think she can figure this stuff out.

Our children have to be allowed to meet others and learn what their beliefs are. If, as it seems to be, your reason is that you don't trust them or their friends then you should not let her go. You have to keep your child safe.

I would probably invite the girl and several friends over for a casual dinner after the campout. I would then have a birthday cake and small celebration. I'd invite a few parents and tell them that you realize that you don't many of your child's friends and you need each other. That let's your child know you are trying and what your values are.

but I think you're totally justified in not letting her go. Most of the things I'd say have already been said, but I just thought I'd let you know I think you're in the right.

This one little girl I used to nanny for, I wouldn't let her be alone with her own mother for extended periods of time. There was a nasty divorce and the Mum was not exactly a stable person (LONG story, trust me on this one).

have you read The Nanny Diaries? If not, check it out!

story of my life :)

fundies scare me...and they are worse in numbers, even as a kid they did.

But, on the same token. If your kid is in anyway how I was when I was 10(I was a preaty normal kid raised by progressive but mainstream parents)she will figure out they are not normal.

And of course, which is usually the case, your daughter's 10 year old friend is sick of the fundy talk. Two of my best friends are from such families. We talked a lot about how their family drove them nuts. They would play along in front of their parents, and then we would go play and everything was fine.

Edit..Three days!? Hell no!

I support Mom on this.

I still support mom's decision.

I'm *extremely* careful about my kids spending the night with people I don't thoroughly know. Religion aside, I've heard too many horror stories.

She'll be mad for a while, but she's 10, and battles like this are par for the course. (Expect a lot of this over the next few years, I'm afraid.) I remember a very similar thing when I was about 11 and was invited to stay the night at a local cultist's house (she was in something called The Way). My mom said no, and I was furious, but now, at age 32 and a mom myself, I am incredibly grateful for Mom's caution and protection.

(P.S. Tell your daughter that for me. She may not believe it at the moment, but she'll remember it.)

Tucker

That way if everything seems kosher the first time along then you'll be ok letting her go alone the next time.

If things seem weird then you'll know to stick with your guns.

Your lil girl is 10 and very impressionable at that age (I know I was). Better safe than sorry!

No bloody way.

probably be trusted. If you are uncomfortable with your daughter spending three days in the woods with people you do not know, one of whom gives you a weird feeling than I am 100% behind your decision.

I wouldn't hesitate to say no. It's not my job to make my children happy all of the time. It's my job to keep them safe and raise them to be responsible and well-adjusted adults. She'll get over it.

are prime recruitment targets. They're a bit confused and vulnerable and generally a bit scared of the upcoming prospects of sex, responsibility and other scary adult stuff. Sometimes a black and white worldview seems reassuring when one is experiencing that sort of turmoil.

Expect the full court press from this family, if your daughter doesn't go on the camping trip (and I think you're absolutely right o tell her no) there will probably be a lot of invitations to saturday night sleepovers (with church on sunday of course) or youth group (come for the pizza, stay for fire and brimstone!) in your daughter's future.

Good for your husband for backing you up even though he disagrees.

I'm sure they wouldn't let their daughter go camping with the Sierra Club.

I really see this as two issues.

If you're refusing because you're afraid that she will be exposed to fundamentalist ideas, I think you're being too rigid. The fact is that she will encounter them anyway (and probably has already, from her friend), and the best remedy for that is exposing her to better reasoning, not keeping her from theirs. You making that a big enough issue to keep her away from a weekend she wants to attend will, in all likelihood, only serve to make those ideas more attractive to her in the next few years.

On the other hand, if you're afraid of the people, not the ideas that she may encounter, you're well within the bounds of common sense. I wouldn't let a child of mine go off to some far-off location unless they were under the constant supervision of someone I was 100% certain I could trust to protect that child to the death. But I'm talking about someone who would protect my child's person, not just hold back from expressing different opinions from my own. Only you can decide which of the two is your own motivation.

And everything to do with the fact that you don't know them very well. Realistically, I wouldn't let my kid go camping with a family of Democrats if I didn't know and trust them well. It's just a matter of common sense.

Explain to your daughter that while you're perfectly fine with her friendship, you do not know the parents or other guests well enough to feel comfortable with her going on an extended, away visit like that. Then stick to it.

You are the parent here. If your daughter is pissed, so be it. Remind her in 30 years, when she is a parent.

Christ didn't.
Follow your instincts, they're usually correct.

3 days in the woods alone with people you don't know from adam and one in particular that you have a bad feeling about?

i'm sorry, what's your confusion? that's an outright 'NO!' if she so desperately wants to go, you can take her to the party, stay the whole time and then bring her back afterward. but if your gut says 'trouble', don't be swayed by anybody's arguments. my mother NEVER let me go on sleepovers, and i used to get all kinds of angry with her about it, but about the time i hit 13, i was REALLY glad that she stuck to her guns, because that was when i started to 'get' that 'bad vibe' she was always talking about. you never know if someone's parent is violent or a molestor or anything like that. better safe than popular she always says.

Distract her with your love. :)

Because I can tell you there's a weekend of misery ahead for your daughter if she goes. Once they get her isolated from her family, all alone in the woods, then will begin the talk about the fires of hell that are 1,000 times hotter than a campfire, and how unless she accepts Jesus Christ as her savior, that's her fate forever. And how if one lifetime were a grain of sand, an entire beach would not even begin to cover eternity.

Been there, done that.

My kids will never go camping with fundies...

or anywhere else for that matter.

RL

and the birthday girl's parents can all come to. Call the fundie parents, say that your daughter can't come on the camping trip, but that you would love to celebrate her best friend's birthday another way.

Think of a nice restaurant that the girls would feel is special, and take them there. Sure the fundies will think of it as a recruitment oppty, but at least you'll be on your own turf.

You are RIGHT to feel creeped out by the prospect of your 10 year old with strangers. It would be negligent of you to allow her to go if you have those instincts. Listen to them, they are right.

I can tell you from experience, do not let your 10 year old daughter get into this situation. My own sister was just barely saved from getting involved in a sexually abusive household because of my mother's good instincts. A couple of other kids on our street got pulled in, much to their detriment. My mother, like you, had a creepy feeling about the dad, and she was right! Don't take the chance.

Your daughter may be angry with you now, but she will thank you someday for loving her enough to take a stand in this situation.

Anyway, back to the alternative... A party you and your daughter arrange, or the long drive to celebrate the birthday. In either case, you are giving your daughter an alternative, and acting like the loving, wise mother you are.

I had my hubby read this thread, and he said you all brought up some things he hadn't thought of, so cheers to all of you. We are definitely NOT letting her go. We talked to her tonight and told her if she wants, we will take her and her friend out for pizza and a movie. She's still mad (I know, she'll get over it). I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being irrational and overlooking something. I try to trust my instincts, but something about a whining 10 year old blocks the "reception" (must have something to do with the pitch).
You all are terrific and thanks for the support!
:loveya: :grouphug: :hug: :yourock:

Yeesh...what the hell are the teenage years going to be like?!

I wouldn't let a ten year old go overnight with adults I didn't know very well. That's too young.

Is your daughter susceptible to their teachings?

She's probably just missing out on campfires and wandering around in the woods. Even crazy right wingers occasionally have fun without reading the bible while they are at it.

There's no way to win religious arguments with children-you end up encouraging exactly what you don't want.

Focus instead upon the fact that you don't know the family very well at this point, but also make an effort to get to know the parents in the future, as your kids will be playing together in the neighborhood. Maybe once you get to know them, you'll change your mind. Parents whose kids play together should know each other, as you are looking out for each other's kids.

I speak from experience when I tell you that your instincts are right on the money.

That "Good Christian" camping trip is a set up if ever I saw one.

I can't begin to count the times that I was invited to parties, museum outings, and amusement park trips by fundie kids in my grade school classes. Because my parents knew some of the adults, I was allowed to go on 3 of these outings. Each time, they tried to tell me that their church members were the only ones going to heaven. They also tried to get me to convince my parents to join their congregations.

Each time, my parents sat down with me and explained how different churches have different beliefs... and some of them believe you have to frighten children into believing what they believe.

Fortunately, my parents sang me an honest lullaby: they explained that our church (Episcopal) was just as valid as any other; they also explained that I was free to decide when, where, and whether or not to worship.

By 7th grade, I could spot a fundie set up a mile away.

My daughter has a friend whose parents are semi-fundie (but um, pop pills, sell pot, and cheat on each other...:crazy:) and are big bushbots and we know them VERY well and I wouldn't let her go with them for three days. Once she asked if she could take our daughter with them on a road trip to Texarkana and I gave some excuse as to why she couldn't go.

Combination of their crazy fundiness AND their crazy behavior means nothing doin'. They are truly unstable.

So I can't blame you. Just say no.

If the people taking offering to take your daughter camping were drunks or drug fiends you wouldn't have a second thought about refusing to let her go. I consider religious fundamentalists to be mentally unstable. These people will try to come between you and your child in the name of their religion. Don't let them get a foot in the door. Treat them like you would a Jehovah's Witness.

my youngest started Kindergarten, the fundies across the street offered to give him a ride every day with their kids. After a few days, he no longer wanted to go to school. After talking to him, turned out that they would get to school and then sit in the car a pray for 10 min or so, he wanted to get out and play... it became very stressful for him. We made other arragnements to get him to school after that (we were not within bus pick-up range, I was at work by 6 am and who know what the ex was doing)

She's going to want to do a lot of things you don't agree with but you're the mom and she's the kid. It's your call, you don't feel comfortable with the situation (I wouldn't either) and you've made your decision.

I think the worst thing you can do now is to change your mind and give in. It will teach her that she can get her way by acting mad at you and it just sets you up for years of possible emotional manipulation.

During times like this, I recommend turning off your heart as much as possible and rely on your head to stick with these decisions. It might be a cold way of approaching the situation, but your job is to prepare her for the real world. Her professors aren't going to change a grade because she gets angry, her boss isn't going to give in to her demands because she gets upset. Just think of it as real world preparation. Besides, this time next week, it'll all be water under the bridge.

go anywhere with people I didn't know and trust well. Hell, I kept her out of her school's "outdoor ed" 3 night camping trip this year because I was apparently the only parent who took the time to go and check out the camp in advance. It was a rat infested hellhole and the highly touted "5 mile hike to the beach" turned out to be a stroll down a narrow highway frequented by drag racers. Amazingly, every other parent I talked to had the same reaction: "If the school sponsers it, it must be ok." Uh, no.

Trust your instincts and do your homework, and your daughter will thank you one day.