A few words about the recent banning of Cuban_Liberal and Padraig18

I've gotten a few emails from people asking for some sort of admin comment about this situation. In case you haven't heard, yesterday we banned the usernames Cuban_Liberal and Padraig18. We don't know for certain if these two usernames belonged to one person, or to two different people who lived together (as they had claimed). For the sake of simplicity in posting this announcement, I will speak as if they are one person (although I honestly have no way of knowing) and use the name Cuban_Liberal.

The reasons for the banning were very simple. After nearly a year of being a (mostly) productive member of the message board, in the past few months Cuban_Liberal became increasingly disruptive, trollish, and conservative. Many of you probably know him for his defense of the Catholic Church -- which is a perfectly appropriate activity for a diverse community like this. But his posts as of late began to really push the boundaries of what is generally considered progressive. In fact, they barely resembled anything close to rational thought.

This disturbing trend did not go unnoticed by many members, or by the moderators or administrators. We discussed it frequently in the moderator forum, and after a particularly egregious recent incident we seriously considered the possibility that he was, in fact, a troll. On Monday morning, we received information from a few DU members which established beyond a shadow of a doubt that this person had a history of inappropriate trolling behavior on other websites, where he would take on other personas and multiple usernames. After double checking everything, and considering all the possible explanations, the admins concluded that the evidence was solid, and his accounts were turned off. Cuban_Liberal and Padraig18 were his best known and most prolific usernames, but he also had about four or five other usernames which each had significantly fewer posts.

Here's the important part

The username Padraig18 served as a moderator for only one two-month term, from May through July 2004. The username Cuban_Liberal served as a moderator for only one two-month term, from December 2004 through February 2005. Understandably, this has caused some concern among our members. Here's what you need to know.

Most important: Moderators do not have access to all of your personal information. Moderators only have access to your DU registration info: Your email address, the name on your profile, and the information on your DU profile. That is all. If you put a fake name on your DU account, or if you put fake information on your profile, then all the mods really know about you is your email address. Moderators do not have access to donation records, do not have access to credit card records, and do not have access to the IP addresses from members' computers.

We have a number of checks and balances in place that make it difficult for a single moderator to act in a unilateral fashion in the moderator forum. Moderators are not permitted to remove any post or ban any member without getting a consensus from the other mods. This occasionally makes moderating slow and tedious, but it has the benefit of making it extremely difficult for one moderator -- or even a few people -- to enforce their will. One member can stop action from occurring through the good-faith use of their moderator veto, but one member cannot unilaterally act. Finally, every action by the moderators is logged for review by the administrators. We generally do not review deleted posts or locked threads unless there is reason to do so, but we review every single banned member to make certain that proper procedure was followed and to make sure that we are comfortable with the decision which was reached. In the wake of Cuban_Liberal's banning, we have gone back and reviewed every single person who was banned by Cuban_Liberal and Padraig18, and found that every single one was banned properly, with moderator consensus. We can say with a reasonable level of confidence that the system worked, and all the checks and balances did what they were supposed to do. We always knew that someone would eventually slip through and serve as a moderator, and while we have tried to assure people that it is unlikely we have (I think) never said that it is completely impossible. We have felt that it is more important to have checks and balances in place so that when someone does get through, they can't do too much damage. We've got a few really good tricks up our sleeve to foil a possible rogue mod that thankfully have not yet been needed.

In the case of Padraig18 and Cuban_Liberal, each username served only one two-month term and were not taken back to serve as a moderator after they were done with their terms. I went back and checked my notes, and the reason why each was not asked back was the same: occasional divisiveness in the mod forum, and inability to consistently follow instructions. In neither case did we feel that the problem was bad enough that we had to ask him to leave mid-term, although that has happened in the past with other members. At the time, our impression was that Cuban_Liberal/Padraig18 was acting in good faith, but was simply not very well suited for the job. In hindsight, it appears to have been a mistake to take Cuban_Liberal on as a moderator after we had already had a bad experience with Padraig18. Our understanding was that they were partners who lived together, and we felt it was unfair to punish Cuban_Liberal because Padraig18 hadn't been a very good moderator. Because of this situation, I suspect we will no longer have the luxury of giving the benefit of the doubt to people who live together and post on DU from the same computer. I guess we should always just assume that they might be the same person and act accordingly. While we are confident that the system worked, and that neither username was able to do any significant damage as a moderator, we will be reviewing our moderator selection criteria and we will likely make it more strict in the future.

A loss of innocence?

I think perhaps, the more disturbing aspect of this for many people is the fact that someone would come to a message board and pretend to be someone he is not for more than a year. I agree that it's totally screwed up. But I'm not particularly surprised by it. As an administrator for four years here, I have seen some extremely bizarre and anti-social behavior -- even from people that seem overall to be pretty decent and trustworthy people. It was only a matter of time before someone like this came to light, and there are probably plenty of other people just like this posting on DU right now.

My approach to dealing with people on DU has always been the same. Trust everyone to a point, but don't completely trust anyone. In other words: I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I try to take everyone at face value. I assume that someone is participating on DU in good faith until they give me a reason to believe otherwise. I avoid most paranoia about trolls and moles and whatever, because it tends to make you suspicious about everyone. HOWEVER, I assume that there is a chance that *anyone* on this website is not who they say they are. I never give anyone personal information that I do not want to share with the whole world. I tend to be skeptical of almost every personal anecdote I read here, and I frequently read things here that I believe to be complete fabrications (but which well-meaning people seem to accept without question). I even prefer to use my username "Skinner" instead of my real name "David" in my relations with members and even moderators, because I think that the use of real names suggests a familiarity that I simply do not have with anyone here.

So, I guess we may have lost a little innocence because of this, but it's probably a bit of innocence that is wise to lose. This is the Internet, after all, and you never know who you are dealing with.

Skinner
DU Admin

edited.



Good riddance to bad rubbish!

He has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Not the fact that there are trolls, imposters and moles on the DU at any given time, but rather that someone can become a moderator and then have access to info about DUers that I'm sure none of us realized would be available to them. Perhaps it might not be info such as our credit info, but it can include our real names and email addresses etc.

What are the screening proccesses for the moderators? How do you know that there are numerous people on the DU that are authorized as mods that are goverment moles, or other people with malice in their intent to find out info about DUers and their personal info? Skinner, how can you assure the privacy of your users to infiltrators and people who want to be using this info for nefarious purposes?

Having worked in hi-tech for years with much familiarity regarding the lack of privacy in email etc., I have always assumed that what one writes need to always be assumed to be viewable by all, but I truly thought that there was some high degree of protection on the part of you as founder and administrator to "protect" the identity and information that the users like me give to you and entrust in you. I think that this "incident" with Cuban_Liberal (whom I agree was getting very extremist and proved in many various recent postings to be far from Progressive or Democratic) has proven that the DU has security flaws and procedures in place that don't adequately protect its participants.

My question to you is how can you protect our info better? What screening process do you have in place for the Mods to qualify? How do we know someone can't join the DU, post in ways that make them appear as a moderate and then become a Mod who then has access to our info and then use that info in ways that include - spaming us, selling our info, monitoring us, etc.

I will admit that knowing this info about your process makes me feel that I can assume no privacy on the DU... :shrug:

If that's who you REALLY are...:)

If you are who YOU say you are....okay, bad joke, bad timing :blush:

I'm sure there are plenty of people who are in the dark about this (as I was until a few hours ago).

You, as always, totally rock!

:yourock:

and not Elad posting from YOUR computer yet again?

i demand PROOF DAMMIT! x(

:spank: or is it Mrs. Matcom trying to get you in trouble?

You must be from around DC.

You also do a splendid job. Thanks.

:rofl: as a DC legal secretary, I thank you for the hearty :rofl:

a lot of people were out of the loop, so pm fever can subside ;)

I canna believe me eyes.

Never saw that one coming....probably because I've been spending most of my time in the lounge.

Thanks for letting us know what was going on.

By what extent has the PM activity risen over the past few days? ;-)

I trust your judgement Skinner.

and to all the DU sleuths.

It's like an internet version of Scooby-Doo!

if it weren't for those meddling kids!"

:D
FSC

The most important info was handed to me by other people. We did some googling of our own to verify everything, and we turned up a few more nuggets of interest, but I really don't deserve the credit for this.

:evilgrin: Just kidding!

You guys do a great job! Thanks for everything!

I am impressed at the controls that you have designed and implimented. There is much more to this than I had any idea about. That being said, what does any of this have to do with the runaway bride?

Just kidding about the last part. Good rule there don't trust anyone completely I learned that in a startling way in the Army and you never know who might post something totally and completely offensive.

Well done. I expect you'll se a huge load reduction on the PM server now. :)

Thanks to you and the admins for being so open as always and doing such a great job with DU!

:yourock:

I don't know why trolls think it's worth their time to disrupt. A disrupter has never made me want to leave DU, or abandon my liberalism.

They really are just wasting their time.

There have been a few cherry-picked quotes in articles attributed to all of us that were less than flattering. Dirty tricks don't make them feel dirty, I guess.


Democracy at work!
Thanks Skinner!
:bounce:

Cuz I said that we kicked the shit out of the Repukes over the Schiavo fiasco? Which we DID. I play hard-nosed politics. When these fascists lose, I like rubbing their faces in it. And we've been REALLY kicking the shit out of them lately.

But, this place is getting really paranoid. I don't know what these other DUers found on Cuban-Liberal, but I never thought he was a troll or a crazy right-winger. He WAS contrarian, in a lot of ways- because, frankly, there's a lot of stuff that gets said on DU that needs to be balanced out (which is a nice way of putting it). We need people like him around.

When people on DU say that America shouldn't defend itself from terrorists, someone needs to be there to say, um, NO, actually, 9/11 did deserve a response (invading Afghanistan- probably Saudi Arabia would have been appropriate, too).

When people say that anybody should be able to kill themselves whenever they want to, someone needs to be there to say, um, NO, I think it's important that we protect people who are going through difficult times in their lives and give them a chance to get through it. You see, it's one thing to look at Terri Schiavo's situation and say, "You know, it sounds like she probably didn't want to be live like this, and I can understand that." It's something else to act as if you give so little of a shit about humanity that anybody offing themselves at any time is just fine and dandy.

When people get to the point where they seem to be getting maybe a little bit gleeful in our soldiers' deaths (which I have never even accused anybody of- I don't even like saying this- although I've been seeing it quite a bit, especially lately, for some reason), or aren't mature enough to see that AT THIS POINT we need to help the Iraqis get a representative government up and running, lest all of this shit we've been going through for the past three years will have been for NOTHING, someone needs to be there to argue the point.

These are just a few examples of the kinds of things that I saw Cuban-Liberal arguing against. I argue against them, too.

If that's "too conservative," well then just go ahead and send me packing.

I'm a Democrat, a liberal, and I'm fucking proud of it. But I'm not going to tolerate bullshit. I'm not going to shut up while people try to pull our party back into the P.C. *total* pacifist crap of the 90's that nearly obliterated our party, put people like the Bush Administration in power, and got us into a pointless war. Because when those of us who did stand up against the war did, in the eyes of America it wasn't because pre-emptive war is not only wrong but DISGRACEFUL, it wasn't because Iraq didn't attack or even threaten us, it was because war is ALWAYS wrong. In their eyes, when we stood up, even if Iraq had ATTACKED us, we'd STILL be against attacking them.

And I see that attitude around here.

You know, Viva, you're right- there is an awful lot of mischaracterization going on, here. I don't think it's done purposefully. We do need to fix it, though.

We have to redefine ourselves. We can't go back to the way it was. No more bullshit.

our email address and what we show on our profiles is probably a great relief to many. Thank you, Skinner, for setting minds to rest on that one.

Hoping we can stop the PM mania now and perhaps save bandwidth for the really sassy stuff, like Pickles' jokes ;)

Cuban Liberal - so I guess I am not surprised.

I was just discussing him with someone by instant messenger recently and we spectulated on whether or not he was a troll


who knew?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

That is creepy on so many levels. We're talking schizophrenia.

Good detective work, Skinner.

Information ends speculation, and is very much appreciated. Thanks, folks.

I thought I knew who Padraig18 was. I guess not.

I have NEVER doubted the consummate fairness and thoroughness of how this site is moderated and administered.

This is why most of us wanted the current system kept in place. This episode is proof of its effectiveness. Thanks for the explanation.

And I feel particularly vindicated in thinking "Paddy" was the crappiest mod ever (being as I served with "him".) :P

Hard work, I might add, that you do. At times it must seem to be thankless but there are more DU'ers than not that appreciate you & EarlG & Elad.

As an aside, what about fundraisers? There have been many here who have been burned by so-called fundraisers. Is there anyway to know what's legitimate & what's not? How do you decide? It's probably my suspicious nature that keeps me from joining in more & wonder how you handle it.

best

We do not vouch for the validity of any of the fundraisers on this site. Our advice is for each member to evaluate the information available and decide for themselves whether they wish to donate or not. There is no shame in donating, and there is no shame in choosing not to donate. We are currently reviewing our policy toward fundraisers.

I like your comment that there's no shame either way. Everyone has to make their own choices & I don't feel they should be ostracized or made to feel guilty or ridiculed for that choice. If one is skeptical, one can see how easy a con could be worked, & if one is more trusting, one can see how a donation could go a long way in helping another in need.

best

make our own choices. There is no shame in not contributing to something you are not certain of or don't feel good about.

him/them having served as moderators, as long as they fulfilled their requirements faithfully. I volunteer at a fundy food bank, and I'm an extremely progressive atheist. <shrug> Of course the dishonesty sucks, and it is appropriate that they were kicked immediately - it's just that I don't give a hoot that they were moderators.

But, as you say, its the internet and you have no real idea who you're dealing with.

Again, thanks for the explanation. It sometimes helps if people understand the situation more completely.

...but if it was the right thing to do, then so be it.

on the net. Good Admins and good Mods keep it that way.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

pleasure out of infighting. Sorry to have given them so much to chew on in the last few days...

:-)

I hope you havn't lost TOO much "innocence" over this.
Your outlook has served the DU community quite well.
Some problems just take awhile to recognize.
Some people take awhile to BECOME problems.

You and the mods do a HECK of a job, 24/7.
YOU are the reason that DU is more than "just another message board".

Long story short: You're all great, so "Don't you go changin"!

mods have access to. I myself was concerned about this over a year ago.

Well written, and sound policy.

In this case, the mole was furrowed in deep and had a lot of trust from a lot of people. I think you all have acted wisely.

Having had doings with 1 of these in the last couple wks and watching the increasing irrationality/inability to form a coherent response to a message. This makes sense and nice to see it wasn't just my wondering if I was missing the link. Thanks for the explanation, really appreciate it.

I was hoping beyond hope that you would post something like this, so that EVERYONE could find out what was going on...You are one very impressive human being, and we are lucky to have you and the other Administrators to run this little town.

Your remarks moved me enormously. There's nothing like knowing that you are in charge and aware of what's going on. And I love knowing that you have controls that you haven't needed to use just yet.

Again, my profound thanks.

:hi:

:yourock:

Yeah, I knew what was up over the past couple of days. But some people didn't, and the rumor mill can get out of hand. This was a very thorough, thoughtful post, and I'm sure it is appreciated by DU as a whole.

Skinner. You guys have quite a job with DU especially now that it's gotten so much bigger. Well done.

Is that if you are deceitful, devious, and cunning, you can disrupt all you like, and even become a moderator. If you are blunt and enjoy speaking your mind and going after sacred cows, it is fairly likely that you will be banned.

but you do have a point, and one I share, tho I don't know how "likely" an outcome banning is.

My take is this: actual, honest-to-god freepers get more respect here than they deserve (and no doubt get to stay longer as a result, at least in some cases) because of the rule that you aren't even supposed to suggest someone may be or is a freeper. Given the current situation, that rule strikes me as all the more counterproductive than it used to.

without slamming a particular person and still be banned?

But in my experience a few dedicated devious folks can make outspoken honest folks out to be disruptors. And I'd agree with Eloriel that sometimes voices contrary to liberal/progressive viewpoints get special treatment. I think that's precisely because the admins want this to be a place for all progressives rather than a narrow sect of people who agree on everything with each other, and they like to err on the side of caution. Admirable as that is, it can go too far and in my view when claims of victimization limit or restrict the expression of dissenting views it does go too far. This is a place for progressives/liberals/socialists/Democrats and not conservatives, but beyond that I believe any and all ideas should be up for grabs. That's all I have to say about it. As much as I disagree on those few points, I doubt I would do as well as Skinner has with running this whole place.

Peggy Noonan and that Chicago guy quoted me in their columns.

Though I was banned for being a complete jerk - so take my opinion with a grain of salt

For this reassurance, and everything else you guys do.

:yourock:

and the name you put in your profile (that is invisible to members) will be accessible to volunteer moderator members. I was not aware of this. I thought that only admins had that info.

Thanks for the message.

We need to get this behind us

happening right now :shrug:

It's amazing to me how much DU has grown and changed over the last four years. But what really impresses me is how much the essential commitment to Democratic and progressive values has remained the focus of the board. We have had set-back, large and small, and we have been fooled with and ridiculed. But we are still here, and we are still growing. Thriving, even. And it's thanks in large part to your dedication and ability to see past the bullshit that sometimes gets kicked up around here.

It is very reassuring to come here this afternoon and find your post. Many, many thanks.

This is much appreciated.

That is not information anyone but the admins should ever have access to!

I can imagine people who want to download the entire DU database for spam or other purposes singing up right now and being willing to spend a year or more just to get that data.

Imagine how valuable the entire DU user database with email addresses and real names would be to certain people or groups.

I suggest you immediately remove access to the email addresses and real names for anyone but admins.

This is a very serious issue and something that could cause real problems for DU users and the site itself.

...It concerns me that this individual may have mine and everyone elses as we speak.

This policy needs to be changed!

The more I think about it, the more unhappy it makes me.

not good at all

They are forbidden from taking, sharing, or discussing any privileged information available to them as a moderator. We explicitly threaten them with any action necessary, including legal action, to keep them from sharing any information.

If you don't wish for moderators to know your name, you should click on the "Options" icon, and then click "Edit account information" to change your name. It's very simple.

It would be very difficult for a mod to take all the email addresses. There is no mass download function. They would have to grab all 60,000 of them one at a time and save them.

An email address is an extremely important piece of information for spotting trolls. Banned disruptors frequently sign up with similar addresses, or addresses from the same ISP. People complain about trolls all the time here, the moderators' ability to find them would be much more difficult without this piece of vital information.

when a new user signs up. I truly had no idea that anyone but the admins would have that info. Makes sense that the mods would need it, absolutely, but there is no question that I would have used an alternate address if I had been made aware on signup of the moderator policy and their access to that info.

And I most CERTAINLY would have changed it when Cuban_liberal became a mod in December. No question.

I've changed my email address now...

Is that I have never recieved an email from them. Not even once. I have received some from members. Remember, if you change your address you lose the email a member feature as well as the PM notification feature.

My concern is that people have seen my email that I did not know had access to it. Not saying I shouldn't have figured that out... just never occurred to me.

I didn't say I am not using an email address at all, DU will not allow that or I wouldn't, I simply changed it to one that would not completely expose my identity, as the other one did.

Given my run-ins over the past several months with the poster(s) who was banned, it is well within the realm of possibility that he obtained my email address while he was a mod, without having to peruse the entire list of 60,000 members.

my sil is also). Does that cause a problem?

No, it will not be a problem. He does say that in the OP. That it takes more than just multiple people using the same computer or connection to suspect someone, and takes MUCH more to ban someone.

I was not so much interested in the possibility of being banned for using multiple computers as in just not being allowed to post away from home. Never mind, I will continue my insanity until told otherwise and thanks again.

We got rid of it a few months ago because we felt it was redundant with the private message function, and because we didn't really see any need for it.

signing up for message boards and the like. I use a free internet address instead.

plus it's a hassle to keep those free accounts active, at least for me... too many email accounts as it is. But... water under the bridge, I guess... Now I know.

Do you have a gmail account? If you don't, and you want to check it out, I have plenty of gmail invites available.

gmail, that is, but alas you don't accept PMs. :shrug:

next to her username above her post.

My understanding is that most discussion forum software is set up to permit moderators access to email addresses and other registration info. The software was set up like this when we got it, and it honestly did not even cross our minds to change it.

I can understand members' concerns, and we'll add something to the rules or the FAQ to make this clear.

But it honestly doesn't give me much comfort. I'm sorry.

There were many, many people who had some "issues" with cub-lib and it wouldn't surprise me if some of these e-mail had been harvested.

My e-mail address that I had to sign up with contains my first and last name along with the company that I work with.

I am just saying that confidentiality or not, I am not really happy with this.

Is there some way that people could KNOW that this information is up for grabs? Like when they register?

for anyone to say so.

BTW: I always thought both (or the same person, I suppose), were the worst excuses for moderators. I'm glad those personas are gone.

This is extremely helpful.

Can I ask, have you banned all of the usernames coming from the suspect IP addresses?

And we will continue to do so if we become aware of any more. But there is no guarantee that any person cannot find a way to come back.

would you consider telling us the accounts you think were his sockpuppets?

Can you give us the other names he/they had?

My only concern is that our e-mail address's are available to moderators. I assumed that these were available to admin. personnel only.

Hopefully with the new changes that you will be putting in place that this will help, but honestly I must say that I am a bit weary of having my IP e-mail addy out there. If it was possible to join with a free e-mail addy I would have done so, I am a member at alot of other message boards and use the freebies for that reason only.

I think alot of our fears would be quelled if you would update us on how your new plan is working out.

I do appreciate all of your hard work. I am not complaining , I am just voicing a concern.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I just thought he was a...conservative...homsexual...democrat......liberal? :shrug:

I guess we all got fooled. These things happen.

Good work. :thumbsup:

posters around here from getting to know those of us who are honest about who we are, and just want to get to know each other, and trust each other as friends.

I've met so many amazing people here on DU, many who I've talked to extensively, some of whom I've even met in "Real life" who are every bit as fun and interesting in person as they are on-line.

So to any Newbies who might be reading this, most of us are just regular people who just want to have fun and get to know you.

Don't be afraid to introduce yourself to us...:hi:

Peter

Your post helps reduce the reluctance some.

and welcome to DU if no one's welcomed you yet.

:hi:

I am shocked. Much more shocked than I was with seventhson, back after the election.

Thank you for the explanation, Skinner. It is greatly appreciated.

DTH

I live in a house where several people (who don't all live here) use the same computer. I have many friends who don't have computers but are active on any computer they can get access to. Therefore, I don't think any blanket policies should be adopted regarding multiple users. However, I understand the difficulty in determining user identity and respect the efforts you make to be diligent.

:hi:

After reading your explanation I am even more impressed than before with the level of seriousness the admins and mods take in maintaining this site. Kudos to you all!

Unfortunately. I liked him\them. He\they seemed like nice guys. Padraig was a big Deanie and we used to brawl during the primary wars. It seemed in good faith. Those guys both have pictures in the gallery. Who's pictures are those? This is unfortunate, but understandable. Good job as always. :thumbsup:

WOW! I didn't even think about stuff that MODS can have access to, like personal info! Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

Skinner, thank you for your hard work. This e-mail, imo, was needed to clarify the situation as well as to keep confidence levels in check on this board. It's unfortunate that certain people have to sink so low and behave this way. I'm sure, like you said, it has happened in the past and will continue to happen to an extent.


Thanks also to the DUers who discovered this horrible situation.

:hi:

as far as these things go.

Young message boards start out with people who are usually very honest about who and what they are for the most part. A few people may be playing games but they are usually "outted" very early on.

Only a very mature message board will have people on for more than a year who are playing games like this. I've found some times there will be people on a message board from almost the beginning who are playing these sorts of games and many years go by before they are revealed for what they are, but this is another sign of maturity for the board.

It's the internet. It happens. It'll happen again, and probably will have much more shocking results. This has been going on since the days of BBS and will continue on into the forseeable future. Don't knock anything you guys are doing because you're doing the same things board admins have been doing for at least two decades that I've seen this sort of medium. Various personalities react differently to the perceived anonimity presented in the medium.

:shrug:

I think y'all done good.

:D

And let the record state that, although The Princess and I often post from the same computer, we are definitely two different people. :-)

:shrug: just sayin

And yes - I am cuter! :)

I'm a she and he's a he. There are DUers who have met us both at the same time in the same room-THEY can tell you!

We ALL, however, are Will Pitt.


Laura

You da man!

for a tough reminder that this is the Internet and we do not know who we are talking to.Thanks for watching out for us.

Thanks for the explanation. It isn't my message board. I think there were plenty of warnings and reasons not to make either of them moderators prior to the time they became moderators.

I hope you'll reevaluate your moderator vetting process.

edited for spelling

I've seen people made moderators that, whether or not they were freepers (probably not, but not definitely not), they NEVER, never should have been moderators.

It's one reason you're unlikely to see me volunteering: I'm just ill-suited to the job (and wouldn't be picked anyway IF Admin were doing a good vetting job).

It's really disturbing that someone would want to spend that much time on a website like this just to disrupt. I can attest to the discussion that went into the bans while he was mod, though. Skinner and the other admins have a really good system in place to protect members of DU from the amount of power mods have over discussions, etc. And I think Skinner and the other admins do a really good job of picking the mods. You can't personally know all of 65,000 people and to have this be the first time in 4 years and so many members that a troll has gotten through the system is exceptional, I think.

I have to say I'm shocked that he was banned and the reasons why, but maybe not totally surprised. Skinner and all the admins and mods (and members) did a great job figuring CL out and taking care of the situation.

on those particular "people".

It was discussed via PM among a group of folks for a good while, and while I am saddened to say it looks like we were correct it is indeed disheartening (and rather pitiful) that someone would attempt to conceive such an elaborate ruse for the mere sake of a "gotcha."

Ah, we live in interesting times, yes??

Your explanation is very clear and I for one appreciate it. It's good to know that there are checks and balances in place for this sort of thing. I can't believe what an enormous task the admins of this site do with such seeming ease. :yourock:

I really am not familiar with the details of the above situation, but because this situation involves the banning of a couple of "non-progressives", I wonder if moderate ideas are accepted around here.

Writer.

I know a few DUers off the top of my head that are moderate. I have some moderate views and I have never had a problem. Being obnoxious is a bigger problem.

I must admit, at times, the tyranny of the majority has told me otherwise. For this reason, I have stayed away from GD and GD politics as much as possible.

Writer.

I consider myself a liberal, but have voiced some moderate views openly here. YOu may end up debating someone who disagrees with you on that one point, but you are definitely able to voice your opinion on DU. It is the most open site I have found and the best. DUers are the best "assembly" of posters I have seen on the net anywhere.

That he was a plagiarist?

Why would it get you kicked off DU? ;)

And Ted Kennedy cheated on a college exam (if memory serves, he got someone else to take it for him.)

it was a Spanish exam, and he was kicked out of Harvard for two years before he was allowed back. So he did have to pay a consequence.

I know of a few respected and well-liked long-term members who have done so. They were not banned either, and DU is better for it. Plagiarizing one time, with a relatively clean record, will get you a stern warning, but it will not get you immediately banned.

unsung guardians of the commons.

And while I am no fan of cliques, perhaps some system of references could be used for vetting mods. There are certain members who are (more or less) above suspicion (for treachery at least)... and no, I do not mean this to include me.

I also understand that it is pretty easy to jam someone up with their ISP. IMHO, this is a tactic that should be used with a heavy hand. Of course, I can be a real prick -- and this tactic comes with great difficulty to some folks.

We Dems have to quit being nice guys (in every set of circumstances) -- nice guys get no respect "on the street". Our enemies don't have to love us -- but they should fear us. And this fear can be exploited as part of the process of turning from the defensive to the offensive -- making the other team worry about what we may be hatching up (and having to respond to it), as opposed to them being free to operate without worrying about (and expending time and resources on) taking defensive measures.

I'm happy to see the information that was compiled by several DUers made it into the right hands.

I appreciate being respected enough to be told the truth about what is going on here at DU.
As in the past, you have all done a great job, and have maintained the quality of DU in the process.

The decision was a wise one.

But I swear we're different people! Different plumbing and everything!

Although, now that you mention it....I think she voted for Nader.....

Anyway fishnfla and margaritamama aint internet trolls

with oddly named children. For Shame!!! ;)

I talked my spouse out of voting for Nader :)

you, Skinner and the admins are terrific.

Thank you so much for your integrity, my faith in people is renewed by you and many here at DU.

Thank you for the courtesy you have given to us, knowing that we are able to handle frank explanations at face value. Thank you for not sugar-coating or ego stroking. This is the best website because of professional people like you, Elad and EarlG.

As most have already said, :yourock:

in a thread about rape; I remember wondering how a Democrat could think like that. I guess I was right.

Now that the acounts have been tombstoned it isn't possible to see what kind of post counts were accumulated and over what period of time.

Can these questions be answered in public?

Please?

I'm fairly shocked. I tried to avoid cuban_liberal because I found him misogynistic. I'm shocked he and Padraid are probably one and the same and a troll. I missed the latest posts. Wow.

How sad that you would post as two different people for over a year. Yes, I agree that's schizoid. :crazy:

I was suspicious but it never went further than that since I didn't talk to CL all that much.

I knew that they never posted at the same time, but that's not unusual. "Paddy" seemed awfully young to be a published author about some obscure point of local history. This is an older person's past time.

I don't read as much as I used to, since I now have to work during the day, but I didn't think

For the record, I am me, have always been me and have never posted as anything else here other than supernova. And if anyone tries to post as me or otherwise spoof my name, I'll kick their ass. :spank:

:wow: It's unfreakinbelievable.
I prayed for them, I cried for them. God I feel so betrayed. And what hurts even more about it is if he's reading this, he's laughing, and he doesn't give a shit.
Duckie

I am sorry he hurt you though... truly.

Everyone who was not around when it happened seemed to have their tinfoil hat (me included) on this morning about what was going on. This will hopefully end all of the speculation.

:wtf:

I talked to that guy(s) so many times and didn't think anything of it. damnit. I suppose that's the anonymous nature of the Internet. :shrug:

I hate to admit it, but I don't donate to the fundraisers on here for this exact reason. (I still give to DU of course)

Thank you Skinner, Elad, EarlG and the good Mods. You guys run a fantastic website.

about CL/Pad.

Skinner, that you and the other Admins with the input of the mods have continued to do such an amazing job does not surprise me in the least.

Cuban Liberal?Padraig, if you are lurking; Up Yours!

Damn!

i was afraid i was going to have to ask for an IM from somebody.

it is kind of sad that somebody would feel a sense of accomplishment by lying all the time. But hey, that's a Republican for ya.

That's fucked up! I could say a lot more, but I guess I'll leave it at that.

:wow:

Thank you for the explanation Skinner. I noticed some chatter on this subject this morning and wondered what was going on.

:toast:

I had put that guy (or one of his names, it seems) on my Ignore list, so in my mind, he's been banned a lot longer.

I must say, that I, Sister Rosa Refried was never fooled. Not ONCE!

The first time I saw the photo, I knew that behind those piercing blue eyes and those rippling muscles and those chiseled, facial features and those full luscious kissable lips ........ what are we talking about?

My it's warm in here.

I don't know if I like that. What are they saying about me? I hope it's good!

:-)

You KNOW there are talking shit about us right now!

They got big ol' cushy chairs, nice fancy mouses and keyboards.

I didn't notice anything "conservative" about Cuban_Liberal's posts lately or over a period of time, (I guess I was just very obtuse) so that one is kind of a big shock to me. Still, a disruptor and/or troll is never helpful no matter what his or her persuasion. And I'm sure the mods just did what was appropriate. Good work.

:toast:

Believe me, if you had been around longer than just 6 weeks, you'd have seen a lot more of it. It's been going on for several months.

I feel so welcome.

I guess I've been relatively oblivious to the situation, personally. Thanks for the explanation and for all the good work that you, Earl and Elad (and all the unnamed, unknown peeps) put into DU. The past 4 years would likely not have been filled with much sanity if a truly liberal board like this was not around. You guys were among the first, and I salute you and the people who make DU a great place to come to everyday.

Trolls, moles and their ilk are everywhere. We see them in our real lives as much as online, and yes, there is a need to have some sense of caution in dealing with others online. Not everyone is as they say they are, and the faceless sense of anonymity we all share doesn't help when it comes to "reading" someone in a more suitable fashion. We all suffer from the dishonesty, but in the end, we end up with the enrichment that the good people give us, with the amount of cynicism of the bad apples somewhat pared because of the decent ones.

Thanks for letting us know what's going on. I think you're handling everything very well.

I knew that I'd had some major disagreements with CL (most recently over the Schiavo ordeal), but I never imagined something this involved. Bizarre.

Many of DU's best and brightest have been wrongfully maligned in the last couple of months regarding this situation (those posters know who they are). I just want to express my deep appreciation to all of them for preserving a tiny bit of the DU I joined over 2 years ago.
:loveya: :toast: :yourock:

and will to try to be fair in tending to the frustrating business of running herd on this huge bunch of cats. No glamor and lots of stress in said cat-herding, but if you and the others didn't do it, this site would not work. Trolls, divisive behavior, misunderstandings, well-meaning but disruptive behavior, and endless arguments and complaints - what a headache, but if it all wasn't watched and nudged when necessary, DU wouldn't work as a community.

Skinner, thank you for everything you do for us all. And thanks to the other admins and the mods as well.

I can't help but be hurt by this. Cuban_Liberal and Padraig18 were two of my favorite DU-ers. I will readily admit that I don't venture into GD or LBN often enough to know about any disruptions there.

I was always so proud of the fact that these two young men, who had obviously gone through so much in life yet still managed to stay together, were a part of our wonderful online community. Through the death of CL's nephew, Paddy's surgery and CL's transition from law enforcement officer to law student I felt an intense sense of pride that they could overcome so many obtacles in our country... Maybe this sounds trite, maybe it just sounds lame to some of you...to others you probably just think I am a dumbass. But I still can't help but feeling betrayed.

Here's to the lost innocence. I guess I'm much more naive than I thought.

This has to be hard for you. I know you get it from so many sides every day and this was the last thing you needed. But I'm glad you handled it so well and so openly.

a lawyer. He even posted a thread about his nephew killed in Iraq. He lamented this in a thread regarding the "funeral".

He even posted his picture in the gallery. I thought he was kinda "cute".

Was this all a sham?

Sorry, But, I'm really pissed off right now.

Or so I've been informed from other posts. That was, as far as I know, the worst of his transgressions. Some who took his personal story to heart feel badly betrayed.

I'm not sure about the gay part. I thought I saw a post once in which he talked about dating women. I couldn't be certain without searching the archives though.

This sort of thing must be a real nuisance to admin folks. And was somewhat disorienting to us until you so clearly explained what had been going on. And you realized the necessity of perspective.

I've had bouts of paranoia myself at times, and this type of incident is why. Ah well, sheet happens.

Thanks for all your hard work.

doesn't have any important things going on in their life and has noting better to do than pretend to be someone they aren't for a whole year. The whole thing seems like such a worthless endeavor, nothing to gain but losing all that time.:shrug:

I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob.

No sweat Skinner. You get a group of 69,000 people together and you are gonna have more than a few whose elevators don't go to the top floor.

When I was using this software (DC Forums) for a board of my own I had one guy who posted regularly as a progressive and a conservative and often had arguments with himself.

Freepers and moles alike just show how the internetS opens up possibilities for people that prefer to act as fake characters instead of appearing more or less true to self.
Maybe that preference tells us more about their values than anything else, without me knowing anything specific about the mentioned ex-DU'ers in this case, of course.

As for freepers in general, I don't care much wether they're here or not. I relate to what's actually written, and there's so much outstanding info being posted here that it is more interesting to be looking for witty and intelligent DU'ers than freepers trying to climb into that shell. If you start looking for freepers among people hanging out here, you'd soon be going mad.

In this specific case, it is a relief to know that they probably miss the company of real people, real data and the cred they had saved up.

Boo hoo, stuck with the mindless flag jerking idiots at FR - a punishment in it self. Good riddance.

I am shocked and a bit saddened to be treated so shabbily by "friends" who asked for and recieved prayers and good wishes over time. What a sad waste of his/their/our time!

Having seen what moderators are privy to, I have full confidence in your system and your handling of user info. :yourock:

So that wasn't a waste of time ;)

:crazy:
I have enough insanity in my life without making any up--but then, I have kids!

I knew on Saturday guys but I thought no one would believe me if i told them, that and I didnt have what I have now, a very interesting record of everything.

0ch well, one more incident to add to DU's rich history.
:o

what state CL's ip came from?

If you are reading this, knucklehead, well, what can I say except that I am truly sorry your time here did not help you learn something...you must be really blind.

He/she was an easy mark.

Jay

I couldn't stand either one of him.


You guys did good, Skinner. Thanks for the "transparency in government," too. :)

I know that you, EarlG, Elad, and all the mods give a lot of thought to things like this. That's why DU is the best-moderated board on the internet, and a refuge for tens of thousands of progressives.

A few morans slip through now and then - it says a lot more about their pathetic lives than it does about DU that jokers want to pretend to be liberal for more than a year.

Maybe he/she/they learned something while they were here!