Anybody else who does not care about having kids? Are we abnormal?

I don't care about having kids, my spouse neither. We've never felt like kids gave meaning to life like you hear many people say. My sister is trying everything she can to have a baby, including fertility treatments that put her health at risk. She really wants a baby. Her life is a failure without a baby. She's a feminist, an indepedent woman, yet...

From an evolutionary point of view, no procreation means extinction, by definition... So, how come we exist?...

and my husband and I decided upon not having them when we married. I don't think its abnormal, just a variation from what many consider "normal".

it's not that I don't like them but I really have no desire to have any, but I'm still young so my opinion can change. Personally I think I have the maternal instincts of a rock...so from the evolutionary POV I guess I'm a mutant

That part can change, if that's what worries you. But you still should be ready for a child before you have one. If you know that you cannot handle it then don't have one.
Too many neglected and unwanted children are in the world today because people think that it is expected of them to have children. Just do what's right for you.

One has to sow those "wild oats of opportunity", like hobbies, interests, relationships, etc, because most of them almost go completely away when children arrive.

I don't have the bandwith for a full time job with lots of travel and children. I feel guilty when I leave my cats, so I can't imagine trying to work and have a family.

and I think you'd make a fantastic mother. I'm not kidding.
You would have non-neurotic offspring. You owe it to the world.
Reproduce!

who will raise her children to be wise. Why do you think the desire to have children is biological. The desire to have sex is, children just happen to be a byproduct. Besides I love my life. We travel, hubby travels a lot on business, I work long hours. All my friend work and those with kids are just frazzled.

There are plenty of people who create kids, and plenty of others who create in other ways- through their art, jobs, service, just being alive!... think about what would happen if every couple had a child - overpopulation is already a threat to the planet... Don't feel pressure from others. I know so many happy couples without kids living productive lives, and that is so important for humanity to have happy couples and happy people!!

As for your sister, that scares me. A mom must be a success as a human being first before she can be a successful mom...hope it works out, but I hope she's not wanting a baby to fill a void...

as being a successful human being.

Who's to judge ?

This is how instituional religion has such a stron impact on people. Years ago in agrarian times , people had kids so they could work in the fields. We need a linit on reproduction. IMO Surely nothing worng with not having children.

Because there are a shitload of kids out there waiting for parents, waiting for homes, but they're not the perfect pink little Caucasian babies that these couples want, so they go on alone in their abandoned, lonely little worlds.

It's these people who want to "experience childbirth" who trouble me. That's not about loving a child - it's about what the couple wants, and it's selfish, wasteful, self-indulgent.

You want to love a kid, adopt one. Save a life, instead of going to absurd lengths to conceive one.

And, by the way, what are the long-term effects of all the hormones the women ingest in order to facilitate multiple egg production? Talk about suicidal.................

know who do have kids wished they didn't have them. They don't say that exactly (well, one did, but she was really drunk and crying), but that's what they're saying. I think it's terrific if you want kids, as long as it's not familial and societal pressures making you have them, like in so many people I know. Plus, I am tired of people asking me, "You don't have kids? Why not???" Look, 1.) it's my personal business, and 2.) it's not abnormal not to have kids!!!

Your profile doesn't indicate whether you're male or incubator :-) but would that view apply to being a surrogate for your sister assuming you have the plumbing ?

Sex is ONLY for procreation, so you can never be a republican.
Get over it.
;-)

I mean, I'd have to find a partner first. :think:

But I've never had a strong parental urge. Not to say I don't think about it from time to time, but it's not an overwhelming urge.

So, I don't think you're abnormal.

If someone wants to have kids, and go a good job as well, more power to you.

Never wanted any. If I am anything like my parents, I should not be allowed to have children.

Nor is my husband, actually. Exercising our right not to procreate?!

Ech, no thanks. I love kids, as long as they have somewhere else to go home to. 24-7, I'd lose my mind. Besides, I'm a selfish bastard, so I know better than to start procreating...

and decided not to continue that line of freaks

There might be an environmental change which would make the freak variation a valuable survival attribute and here you're taking it out of the germ line.

My ex was the one who wanted a baby badly. Of course, now that we have a child he is nowhere in site.
She wasn't planned but I love her more than I ever thought that I could love anyone else. That's just how it goes.
At least you know that you do not want children and you have a spouse that agrees. It would be even worse to bring a child into the world that was unwanted (my child was unplanned but, from the moment that I knew about her, she was never unwanted. There is a difference. Some people have children and never want them even after they arrive).

individuals would have no desire for their own offspring. Thereby allowing them to benefit the community as a whole w/o a narrow focus on their own progeny. Especially when siblings have already reproduced, ensuring the transmission of genetics into the next generation. Just my $.02.:hi:

By the way, I have three little rugrats...and I don't think you're abnormal.

The idea is similar to what you say... By helping our relatives, even not so close ones, with their kids, a big chunk of our genes get transmitted to the next generation...

It's there, I can feel it, since I enjoy caring for my nieces and nephews. And I would certainly take them in if anything happened to their parents. We're family afterall.

But giving birth was never a strong drive for me. Plus, I never found anyone I wanted to do that with.

Plus, at this stage in life, I've accepted it probably won't happen. Anyone who wanted to be with me, I coudn't promise him children.

I like kids. I like volunteering and doing stuff for kids. I don't feel that I have enough time to dedicate to having them myself. It takes a lot to be a parent. A lot that I recognize as a responsible human being, that I do not have to give.

an overwhelming urge to be a mother. Besides we have plenty of nieces and nephews on both sides to get our fill.

I have no desire to have kids though I haven't ruled out one day beina foster parent or adopting. I just feel like in a world full of unwanted children who need good homes it's kinda silly not to adopt if you want kids. If I ever feel emotionally and financially ready to be a parent...that would be the route I'd want to go.

I knew by about 25 that I didn't want any. Some people would say to me "just wait until you are older. You will be so sorry you didn't have any." I'm not.

I don't believe I ever wanted kids. When I was little, I never played with my dolls; I played with my stuffed kitties. People also would tell me that I'd change my mind. Well, I just hit the half-century mark and I haven't changed it yet. :-) I'm not all that fond of kids anyway. I don't really enjoy being around them and I have no idea how to relate to them at all.

Dunno... The screaming, running and touching things really bugs me... I've left restaurant because families with kids sat near me... A bit extreme, I suppose...

my boyfriend and i have asked that we not be seated near people with children and that children not be seated near us. of course we get looks like we just murdered someone.

i have left stores because of screaming, whining children and the parents that totally ignore them and must thing that all this bothers no one else.

:)

I haven't changed my mind in 31 years!

I've never enjoyed the company of children. Contrary to how many knees jerk at that statement, that doesn't mean I seek them to be unkind to; rather, I avoid them.

And so ditto on the "you'll want them when you're older". Um, older now and still, not so much with the wanting. :)

is from kittens I adopt from the shelter.

www.vhemt.org. You'll be amused by their biology and breeding section.

More kids in this world need a loving home.

I don't want kids. I'm still in school (I'm 26) and I want to have a career. I want to travel. I want to be able to come and go as I please. I'm guess I'm just selfish. Plus, I have no idea how to relate to children, nor do I have an ounce of maternal instict. Maybe I'll change my mind someday. :shrug:

It's who you are and there's nothing wrong with that. However, one can most definitely be a feminist and an independent women and have children (or desire to have have children). There's plenty of women here in fact that are and do.

I love being a mom and I even work with children. I wouldn't consider myself a failure if I couldn't have children, but I'm still grateful that I can and have been able to. There's nothing wrong with not having the urge to procreate, but there's nothing wrong with having it either.

that a woman can be a very strong feminist and have children. Sadly, this sometimes is portrayed as contradictory, but I don't agree with that portrayal.

no kids by choice and very happy!!! You certainly are not abnormal.....

I am about to hit four years in July. Congrats!

marriage can be the best when you find the right person...best to you both!!!

You too. :-)

I don't want a baby, but I want a family.

I've never been a baby person, and I'm not good with icky.

Chances are good that I can't have children, so I've never counted on it.

That's an automatic family, and you do so much good for kids who've had nothing but bad breaks.

babies are very demanding, but cuddly. Kids are more fun when they start talking and walking.

I waited til I was 37 to have a kid and had a lot of fun prior to that- lots of work, travel, playing in a band. Parenting is hard and challenging, but I am glad I had my son. OTOH, if people don't want to have kids, that's ok with me. I didn't, really, prior to deciding that I did and I didn't feel bad before I decided, about not having one either. To each his own.

I look forward to being a step grand mother....Spoil them and send them back to their parents when I'm done.

Never wanted any, never had any. The only "kids" I have are four legged and furry. They're hard enough to handle as it is!

I personally don't want any kids when I get marrried, but thats because so many of other people's little kids like to bother me where ever I go and I've have just gotten so sick of kids. My older sister doesn't want any kids, she has gotten married a couple of years ago and her husband is fine with the idea, but because he has a kid from a previous marriage who is all grown up, and doesn't want anymore either. But at the same they do have two dogs, who my sister refers to as "their kids" and they are just like kids somewhat.

My wife and I don't have kids, nor do we want them...ever.

where they interviewed older couples with and without children. The conclusion was that couples who had children lead more meaningful lives. And, couples who did not have children led happier lives. If you don't want to have children--great. Be happy!:toast:

Is those women who give up any real life of their own for their kids. Not so much those who stop working to raise kids or anything, but those who keep from accomplishing anything on their own in order to "live" through the accomplishments of their children.

Why is that? You would think that women with any measure of self-esteem at all would want to "be all that they can be" with or without a child, and that regardless of having children, they still have hopes and dreams that rest on their own shoulders. I find it quite senseless to live vicariously through a child, because each and every one of us is as important as the next, and someone's child should not be any more important than its mother.

commitment that they come first.

I think "accomplishments" is a very subjective word - what you and I might consider an accomplishment could be very different.

With a HS diploma I worked my way up to a well-payed corporate job, I guess some would consider that an accomplishment - I consider it to be fairly meaningless.

Preparing my kids to go out and face the world, to be kind, fair, and work hard is more of an accomplishment to me - it is not easy (and I'm not anywhere near claiming success).

And to the OP - there is nothing abnormal about not wanting children, we all make our own choices and I respect both the choice to have and to not have children.

that doesn't mean I don't want to have and do things that are for me, accomplishments separate from raising my children. I stay home with my kids, but I also want to teach them that I am a mother AND a woman of other value.

But I did gain a stepson several years ago, and actually, being his close buddy instead of his "real dad" has been liberating for the both of us. He was in sore need of a decent male role model, and I hope that I've been able to help him out in this regard.

Rarely do I ever feel that "gee, I wish I'd had a kid" pang; most of the time, I'm grateful I didn't -- it's just right for me, that's all. I do love my stepson very much, but jeez, he can be a major challenge at times (20 years old). But he'll be a good friend for life. :hug:

soooooo cute. We have 2 and my husband takes care of a colony of 10 little kitties......cats rock!!

Never once in my life had any desire to have any, and fortunately neither did the s.o., so it was never an issue. We have hordes of cats instead.

My mom's disappointment at not being a grandma (my sister is single with no kids) was happily assuaged when my cousins started spawning :D.

I never wanted them, so I had my tubes tied. I never bought into the propaganda. How does it go? You don't know what (love, happiness, fulfillment) is until you have a child. Not true.

And you don't have to buy into it either. :hug:

And I do find it odd that a woman who claims to be a feminist feels like a failure because she hasn't had a baby.

My husband wants them but I really have no interest. Once in a while I think it would be ok, but that only lasts for a few minutes. If I tell my husband I had that thought, he talks about a baby for days.

And my choice doesn't endanger the future of the human race. There are plenty of folks out there having enough kids to more than compensate for my kidless "condition." :hi: I make no judgments about others' reproductive choices, and I think we "childless by choice" folks should be extended the same consideration.

We like the kids we know, but are perfectly content to be the "cool, hip, aunt and uncle" figures in their lives. It works out great.

i suspect evolutionarily speaking that is why homosexuality exists too...else we would over populate and kill everything including ourselves

My friends played 'house', I was learning michigan Rummy... Motherhood was a non-issue for 30+ years.

I got pregnant 2 months into our marriage during our wild South American 3month honeymoon.... We were not being careful.

I DECIDED to become a mom... I had had the choice in the past. It was scary as hell. Pregnancy SUCKED, and let's not even go into the delivery.

Both of my kids (no more, hubby was fixed) are very mature for their ages, and understand 'the real world' - probably due to the fact that I never did any of that 'baby talk' with them. I always talked to them as 'little adults'. I did not have the capacity for 'baby talk'



Kids Happen.
Often when you least expect them to.

My bloodline should have died out given my 'non-maternal' personality.

Kids happen - sometimes they don't.


There are too many of us on this planet as is.
With the state of the world today I sometimes wish I had not had children.:(

The world is overpopulated as it is. People like us are doing the world a favor.

One of the greatest things about being a woman in the US is that we have choices. It never ceases to amaze me; however, how quick we women are to attack and/or belittle one another based on those choices.

I have read many posts in this thread which state the person knew from an early age that he/she did not want to have children. Would it shock you to know then that I could never imagine my life *without* children? From the earliest of ages, I knew that I wanted at least two children.

Don't you find it interesting that we left-of-center folks have no problem understanding that homosexuality is hard-coded into a person, but we balk at the thought of the will to procreate also being hard-coded?

All of us have our paths and all of us serve our purpose - regardless of how in our out of the mainstream of thought that purpose might be.

-----

As a side note: Many moons ago, I was an active participant in the GOP. One of the most outrageous attacks I ever heard during that time was that liberals care more for their pets than they do for children. I still find that thought outrageous... but I've also come to see, by being with the unique individuals here on DU, the truth in the statement.

When it comes to abortion many here are quick with the "Don't like it? Don't have one." train of thought. Yet, when you consider that same phrase in line with procreation, not so many are willing to follow the "To each their own" philosophy.

According to many (please notice that I did not say 'all'), I should be able to take my cats and dog where ever I please. They should be welcome visitors in various public venues. Limiting myself to only my pets, however, wouldn't be enough. I should also strive to care for pets that have been discarded, neglected, abused and left to return to wild states. Those are the rules for animals/pets.

When it comes to my children many on DU hold the opinion that those little beasts should be held hostage in my home. I should not take them to public venues where they might cause a disturbance by crying, fussing, foot-stomping, screaming, whining, laughing, running or otherwise making any sort of eye contact with the childless couples among us. Sen. Clinton wrote, "It takes a village" and I whole-heartedly agree with her. It is, therefore, even more shocking when I'm faced with the fact that many on DU have no desire to be a part of a village with children. (Cats only, please.)

I think DUers, as a whole, could learn a great deal from observing their cherished pets. Some pets do not like to be around children. Those pets will go to great lengths to avoid children -- removing his/herself from the same location as children, hiding from children and, as a last resort, lashing out against the child.

On the other hand, there are pets who cannot get enough of children. The moment a child walks into the room, these pets come to life and begin to advertise their soft fur, relaxed ears, deep eyes and playful attitudes. It is as if such pets are not complete without the closeness of a child.

I'm out of the mainstream, and I don't give a shit. Neither does my Loved One of the past 13+ years, who can't believe his luck in finding someone as uninterested in children as he is.

That's a story that needs telling ..................

Two procedures; the tubal ligation was to sterilize me and the ablation was to end menorrhagia, but it is also makes pregnancy impossible.

You sure are safe, and I'm glad the ablation took care of the other problem.

It's going to be great. Freedom, health, money, health, health and did I mention health? And any of you who might feel like preaching to me about all the heatlh-risks out there for "non-moms"? Don't bother. At all.

"get off my lawn you so & so kids you!!!" thread :shrug:

not a "I hate kids" thread. :shrug:

... than so am I.. because I NEVER want to have kids.

So I actually DO care.. in so much that I would like to avoid it at all costs.

No way, no how.

:hurts:

Heyo

We'd make terrible parents. My partner has zero patience when he's stressed out and I have a difficult time even keeping the dogs off the furniture. Our kids would be emotionally fragile spoiled brats. No thank-you.

I do not want children. It would be a new chaotic element that I do not need. My wife feels that way too. I just don't like them and have no reason to have any. The one thing the world does not need is more of us.

that as overpopulation occurs, more and more people won't want to have kids. I think the human race has some kind of self-regulatory system. (not always effective, but maybe in the larger sweep of things...)

On the other hand, I'm sitting here dealing with the urge to have a third child -- against my common sense. I'm happy with my family as it is, my husband doesn't want one... but my body does. Weird.

my unimatrix designation is 1 of 3. Have a brother almost 8 yrs younger (the other one is 2 yrs younger), got pressed into service having to help mom look after him. ("YOU had him, YOU take care of him!" was my lament. :cry: ) I can clean butts, change diapers, give baths, feed baby food with the best of 'em. Was a camp counselor for 2 summers and the idea of being a parent 24-7 wasn't what I wanted to do. I like coaching better; had been an asst. soccer coach twice. I'll do it again I'm too old to play (still have a few years left in me. :P )

Besides, there are too many live children that require care for me to justify continuing my genetic line. I could be a stepdad/coach.

IMO, any one who wants to be a parent should be a camp counselor or big brother/sister or substitute teacher (I've done that, too, and that's another story. :silly: ) first to get an idea of what they'll be facing for the next 18-20 years.

I had no interest in having kids until I turned 30 and my friends started having babies. Went through the infertility stuff and ended up adopting. It's a personal choice and I have a lot more respect for those who know they don't want to be parents than those who think they do and then end up doing a crappy job of raising their kids.

Just so you know that you are not alone :-).

I had to add childless by choice out of habit, because over the years, I have actually been asked if I could have children (yes, a very rude question).

However, I find it quite disturbing that there are so many people out there who think that just because you don't have kids there must be something wrong with you ( you know these people ). I'm twenty-nine ( thirty in August ), and I knew long ago that kids were not for me. I'm not even seeing anyone and I like it that way. Every now and then at family outings I'll get shit like " When are you gonna find a nice girlfriend and settle down and have kids?" Well excuuuuuuse me, but I am settled down and I know that if I have kids my life would be too chaotic. I look at some people with kids and they look absolutely miserable, you know, with that " If only " look in their eyes. I'm rambling, sorry...if you don't want them, more power to you:toast:

:toast:

If I had a dime for every time someone smiled at me condesendingly and fed me that line...ugh.

I don't think we are abnormal at all. We just (thankfully) live in an age where we have some pretty good birth control methods at our disposal. I don't think wanting to be childfree is anything new. It just wasn't as easily done back in the days when "pulling out" or various other rather ineffective b.c. methods were all people had.

I actually really do like kids, which is important, because I work with them (in the children's dept. of a public library.) And I love being an aunt to my nephews (although I'm really hoping for a niece sometime soon!) :-) But I, along with my husband, know we definitely do not want our own kids.

While we're on this subject, I have a little mini rant: While I do like kids, I am not a fan of babies. I just don't get the fascination with them, and I would rather not participate in the ooooing and aaaahing that always seems to occur in their presence. I wish people would be more sensitive to the fact that not everyone just luuuuurves babies. It's always awkward for me when there's a new baby in the family..."Oh, don't you want to hold the bayyyybeeee!?" Uh, NO THANK YOU!!! But if I refuse this, I get the bitchy looks or attitude. So, it's either deal with the bitchiness, or play along and feel very phony and uncomfortable in the process. But guys seem to get out of this predicament all the time. My husband is rarely asked to hold the baby, but if he is, his refusal is never met with any animosity. It's like, if you have ovaries, you're automatically expected to just fall all over yourself wanting to hold the baby, and discuss its diaper rash, and all those other fascinating subjects. But if you don't want any part of that, you are often looked at as a freak. That just really pisses me off.

Okay, end of rant. :-) (Sorry!)

Anybody remember that?

I agree; it's the ultimate in condescending..

That's why they don't get the dirty looks - "oh he's worried he'll hurt the baby". It's not "ok" for women (as a rule) to not be interested in in babies - it's supposed to be our defining characteristic, doncha know - it's what makes us a "woman". :eyes:

/rant over

Oh my God, if I had a dollar for every time I have to hear "You'll have one of your own", "It's going to happen.", "Why don't you want one of your own? That's selfish.", or the one I love - "Hey, there's always accidents". Yeah, because THAT makes me not want to get snipped or double up on condoms even though she's on the pill. :eyes:

I never, and I mean NEVER understood everyone's obsession with wanting to have these throwback families of multiple offspring. What the HELL is wrong with just having ONE? Why can't people be happy with that? Truth be told, I would have been happy with ZERO, but you can't control other people's actions. I wouldn't change being a stepdad for the world, but why can't that just be all? I changed the diapers, I was up for the feedings, I put him to bed quite often, we do father/son things . . . COME on. To have to go through this again is something that I simply do not find the least bit appealing at all.

I'm sorry, call me selfish, whatever, but I like my "me" time. You also have to look at another factor - in case any of these "well wishers" haven't realized, wages are not keeping up with the cost of living and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I can't even get ahead in the family I HAVE, let alone go in hock up to my eyeballs expanding it. College tuition isn't going down, nor are many school levies passing around here. I really don't feel like working until I'm 75 years old, thank you.

And all these people who are demanding I have another child . . . I look at their situations and they're a freaking MESS emotionally, financially and time-wise. And people think I would be sorry if I DIDN'T have another kid? Not here.

It really gets frustrating listening to these people and puts pressure on me that I don't want. I can definitely see why one wouldn't want to have any kids. I was (and in some sense, still am) the same way, and my opinion isn't swayed much now that I'm a parent.

If you're a woman, everyone assumes you are secretly yearning for kids, even if you say you don't want them. One girl said to me, "But didn't you ever play with baby dolls when you were little?" Nope, I played with trucks and dinosaurs. I wanted nothing to do with babies, even then.

People are always giving me grief because I'm not living up to what they feel is my reproductive responsiblity. But now I have learned the trick. Now when people start needling me over the childless issue, I just say: "I HATE KIDS!" and it shuts them right up.

for the record, I have one child who was a pleasant "surprise" so to speak (I was on the pill). I have friends who want babies and I have friends who don't want babies and it drives me nuts to hear how people talk to my childless friends. Why should anyone care? I for one respect your decision. The worst thing anyone can do is to go against their own wishes and do something out of social pressure.

From an evolutionary stand point, humans have the ability to use logic to override instinct. Some are obviously much better at it than others, but when you know the world is populated with over 6 billion people, you realize that extinction isn't going to happen anytime soon. The irony of it all is that the chance of extinction at this point is more likely to occur because of too much procreation rather than too little.

someone with the ability to give birth to become President. ;)

Sadly yes, I think you're right.

For you, valis, a nice essay by one of my favorite contemporary authors:

http://www.granta.com/extracts/778

Excerpt:

Yet we burble along, procreating, and in the process suffocating thousands of other species with our selfishness. We're in a baby glut, yet it's as if we've just discovered babies, or invented them. Reproduction is sexy. Assisted reproduction is cool. The announcement that a movie star is going to have a baby is met with breathless wonder. A BABY! Old men on their third marriage regard their new babies with 'awe' and crow about the 'ultimate experience' of parenting. Bruce Springsteen found 'salvation' with the birth of his son. When in doubt, have a baby. When you've tried it all, champagne, cocaine, try a baby. Pop icons who trudged through a decade of adulation and high living confess upon motherhood, This Baby Saved My Life. Bill Gates, zillionaire founder of Microsoft, is going to have (this is so wonderful) a BABY. News commentators are already speculating: will fatherhood take away his edge, his drive; will it diminish his will to succeed, to succeed, to succeed? National Public Radio recently interviewed other high-powered CEO dads as to that ghastly possibility.

It's as though, all together, in the waning years of this dying century, we collectively opened the Door of our Home and instead of seeing a friend standing there in some sweet spring twilight, someone we had invited over for drinks and dinner and a lovely civilized chat, there was Death, with those creepy little black seeds of his for planting in the garden. And along with Death we got a glimpse of ecological collapse and the coming anarchy of an over-peopled planet. And we all, in denial of this unwelcome vision, decided to slam the door and retreat to our toys and make babies—those heirs, those hopes, those products of our species' selfishness, sentimentality and global death wish.

If I don't have them, I will be perfectly happy without them. If I ever get married again, I may decide I do want them.

But no, people who do not want kids are NOT abnormal. Just a bit outnumbered.

I don't think either option is "normal". its all about personal preference.

There's a difference. Personally, I cannot imagine life without my two girls. And we still plan to adopt at least one more child in the next few years. But if someone doesn't want to do that, doesn't feel "up to the job", likes the life they have now and the freedom to do certain things that having kids would make difficult, so be it. No skin off my nose.

Also, for me at least, it's not the freedom etc... Simply I don't have any desire, like I don't have much desire to go fishing...

not sure. I love babies and love to hug them and kiss them...then give them back to their moms. When I think about the notion of signing up for 18+ years of completely changing my life around to care for a child, I just about have a panic attack.

Maybe if I was happier about where my life is at, I would be more receptive to the idea. But right now I'm at a job I hate. And while I love my neighborhood in the city, we're going to have to move soon because we need more space and can't afford a house in the city (we're in a condo now). I've wanted to move to California for the last 10+ years but a number of factors have prevented me: jobs in my field are hard to get in Cali, my husband has a fantastic and extremely stable job here in Chicago, housing prices in Cali are even worse than in Chicago, and the economy sucks.

So the way I see things going is that, if we remain on our current path, we're going to be living in the Chicago suburbs and our child is going to be stuck in the same kind of environment I grew up in and HATED. I swore I'd never allow a child of mine to grow up in a generic suburb, surrounded by strip malls and neighbors who are white Republicans (a situation which will be even worse for my child because he or she will be mixed race). Where you have to drive in your car to go anywhere, and all the houses look the same, and all the people dress the same, and the only activities are shopping in chain stores, eating in chain restaurants, seeing blockbuster movies in megaplexes, and going to church.

No offense to people who enjoy their suburban homes. I'm sure there are nice suburbs out there, but my personal experience was not a good one. I'm just a city girl I guess. I like walking to restaurants and coffee shops. I like taking the train anywhere I want to go, or driving if I feel like it. I like having variety and people from different walks of life living around me. I like funky people, art galleries, music festivals, street fairs, foreign movies, theater, used bookstores, ethnic food, unique shops, natural medicine, etc. I like that my husband and I can walk down the street holding hands and no one takes a second glance. I like that my two nieces who live in the city have friends of all different backgrounds and ethnicities who are funky and unique and think about life beyond the shopping mall. And I want that for my child. If I can't give that to my child, I just don't know if I want one.

Sorry for the rant. I've been really feeling down about this lately because I'm 35 and my husband is getting antsy. If the economy were better (thanks BushCo!) I could probably be where I want to be right now and it wouldn't be an issue. Blah!

When they are not the ones who are risking their life and will go through major biological changes... Without counting that you'll be the one with the social pressure to be with the kid... Adopting later on might be a possibility...

would support me if I said "Absolutely not, I'm not having children." but I think he is really getting to the point that he wants one and knows that I've got mixed feelings about it. I've overcome the problem that I used to have where I was afraid I'd be abusive like my mom. Now I know I would be a good mom, I just don't know if I've lived enough of MY life to be okay with giving it up for my child. Maybe that sounds selfish, but I never want to get to the point where I take my resentments out on my child. I've seen that far too many times.

remain balanced and a healthy person... So, that should not be a concern...

You sound like a mentally healthy person. You know you'd be a great mom. One way to look at this is you're not giving up your life when you have a baby. It's just that it takes on an incredibly rich, new, wonderful, surprising dimension. It's an adventure. Yes it's hard. But it's so, so wonderful too. It's one of those things that's unimaginable until you experience it.

If you have a baby, I can almost guarantee you won't regret it. If you don't have a baby there is a very good chance you will regret it for a long time.

Not that it's any of my business ... ;)

I understand what you're saying, and many people have told me the same thing. It's just that, because it's one of those things that's unimaginable until you experience it, you won't know if you made a mistake until you do it. And while I'm okay with making mistakes and learning from them in my own life, it's a different story when there's another human being around.

It strikes me as somewhat ironic that the very people who would make the best parents -- people who are thoughtful, introspective, logical, self-aware, etc., like you, are often the ones who hesitate before having children while millions of, um, not-so-thoughtful ones go ahead and have baby after baby.

Good luck, whatever choice you make! :hi:

I've noticed that as well. My brother's wife's sister just had her TENTH child and GUESS WHAT? She's a total over-the-top fundie. oy!

Anyway, thanks again for your kinds words. For me, one of the hardest things about having BushCo steal another election was that it's made it next to impossible for me to convince my husband to move out west. It sure is difficult to have much hope of our financial situation improving as long as the fascist bastards are running things. I think I'll feel very trapped if I have a child while still living in the midwest, because it will become even harder to move where I truly want to live.

You'll bear his child if he moves out west ... :evilgrin:

And if you don't want to have kids, then that's okay. There ain't no law 'gainst it....yet.

I'm sure you find it in all species. Some individuals probably don't even have a mating instinct - which is nature's way of tricking us into procreating.

Oh my yes...

Anyway, my wife and I both have it, and my kids are the best thing that have ever happened to me. But I know LOTS of people who don't feel the same way, and more power to them. They help make up for the nutty people out there who feel they have to have 12.

I agree, though, that I've never understood the whole fertility treatment stuff. I had neighbors once that had tried everything and spent themselves almost into oblivion trying to conceive. I don't understand what it is that makes adoption so not-an-option for these people. It has to be some kind of imbedded instinct.

Makes me feel kinda guilty that both our kids were planned to the month.

david

I think I do sometimes but I like things the way they are. Everyone thought that I would be baby-crazy because of the birth of my niece, who I adore deeply.

But, I haven't. At 31, I think kids may not be in my future and i am OK with that.

If I did have a kid, I could only have one---I cant stand to be around more than 1 kid at a time. Kids are annoying.

But what is most annoying is to have people say those stupid cliches to you, "just wait until you have your own", etc... It's not selfish---it's more selfish to have kids---to "fulfill" that biological destiny.

I also think that these same people are jealous of those who didn't have kids---wishing they were more like us.

If you don't want kids, don't have them.

If you do, then by all means.

If you are having trouble, go to the doctor and pursue whatever options are reasonable/within your financial means.

There ya go. Bada-boom-bada-bing!

We have one child, that's it. We're extremely happy with one.

:P

And do you even care if you are?

If I were childless and someone asked me about it, or gave me crap about it (smiling all the while to be sure), I'd tell them to kiss my ass, it's none of their business.

Not everyone needs to breed. We aren't supposed to outnumber insects in the food chain. An awful lot of our problems come from unspayed female humans and unneutered male humans, or at least, irresponsible overbreeding. Too many humans makes for wars, pestilence, famine, and general unhealthiness. Okay, I sound awfully antisocial, but I am sure any conservationist would agree with me that overpopulation is a detriment to any species. I say bravo if you don't feel the overwhelming desire to breed. I don't feel it either. If I ever start thinking about it, I intend to adopt. There are too many children who don't have homes, can't get placed in homes because they aren't blond haired and blue eyed or "Aryan" enough and they need homes. If I ever decide to "have" children, I will pick out the hardest to place one I can find and love it with all my heart. That just looks like the responsible thing to do. I should shut up before I offend someone, but I find the concept of fertility tratments and fertility clinics incredibly vain and arrogant of the human species too. People shouldn't have litters. And if someone wants children so bad, they should adopt and put their hearts where their mouths are. I shouldn't have gotten started on the topic, but felt the need to share an honest opinion. So, IMHO, you are perfectly sane, normal, right, good to not feel the need to have children.

I love kids, I just don't want any of my own.

I respect both.

Of course you're not abnormal. Of course it's your decision. Of course it's fine not to have kids.

Yet, those of us with kids know what childless life is like, and we know what "with child" life is like. I would venture that the vast majority of parents consider parenthood the most amazing, exciting, loving, deepest and most profound experience of their lives, hands down. As my world-traveler, high-adventure friend told me once, nothing compares to it. Nothing.

So, forgive us if sometimes we want other people to experience this feeling as well. Everyone knows stories of people who were dead set against kids, didn't like babies (I was never much into babies myself), etc. and then they had kids ... and BAM. Whoop, there it is. Parental love gushing and flowing.

I personally don't push people to have kids and say stupid comments about it and the like, but I can't help but feel a twinge when people pass on the experience by choice.

I'm being honest. Flame away.

No kids for me. Not now, not ever.

First, I'd be a horrible dad. I already know this.
Second, I don't really want to bring a kid into THIS world the way it is.
Third, we keep breeding, we're gonna be outta space before long.

Nothing against those that want/have/will have kids. That's all good. Just not for me.

:sarcasm:
Read it and weep, Horselover Fat!

http://www.christianpost.com/article/editorial/173/7|15|22/deliberate.childlessness.moral.rebellion.with.a.new.face/3.htm
Link won't paste.....
Deliberate Childlessness: Moral Rebellion With a New Face


Monday, Jun. 28, 2004 Posted: 6:12:53PM EST

The culture is clearly buying into this concept. Legal fights over apartment complexes and other accommodations come down to the claim that adults ought to be able to live in a child-free environment. Others claim that too much tax money and public attention is given to children, and that this is an unfair imposition upon those who choose not to "breed." Of course, the very use of this terminology betrays the rebellion in this argument. Animals breed. Human beings procreate and raise children to the glory of God.

Without doubt, children do impose themselves upon our creature comforts, waking us up in the middle of the night with demanding needs and inconvenient interruptions. Parents learn all too quickly that children are not only the smiling cherub sleeping in the crib, but also the dirty-faced preschooler, the headstrong teenager, and the boisterous grade-schooler.

The church should insist that the biblical formula calls for adulthood to mean marriage and marriage to mean children. This reminds us of our responsibility to raise boys to be husbands and fathers and girls to be wives and mothers. God's glory is seen in this, for the family is a critical arena where the glory of God is either displayed or denied. It is just as simple as that.

The church must help this society regain its sanity on the gift of children. Willful barrenness and chosen childlessness must be named as moral rebellion. To demand that marriage means sex--but not children--is to defraud the creator of His joy and pleasure in seeing the saints raising His children. That is just the way it is. No kidding.

:evilgrin:

for having given them life :thumbsup:

Reckon I am too. I'm just not interested. And it's funny, I was never all that interested in higher mathematics either, nobody seems to think I'm "abnormal" for not becoming a physicist. :shrug:

I just don't feel it. Lots of women, when they see a baby or child, want to coo over it, cuddle it...I just don't feel anything at all, except annoyance if it's shrieking. I don't even think they're all that cute. Never have. And at 35, if my biological clock was ever going to start ticking, you'd think it would have by now.

It's an irrevocable decision. I'd rather regret NOT having children than regret having them. And if I DO freak out with desperate longing in my 40s (I guess it could happen) then I would gladly adopt. There are so countless children out there who need homes, and I'm not obsessed with my own DNA being so freakin' special. (I really, REALLY don't get the fertility treatment thing. The cost, the health risk, the emotional panic....WTF? A-D-O-P-T.)

The VAST majority of families have kids... A small minority of people become physicists... So, not being one is "normal". Being one would be considered "unusual", perhaps even abnormal by people who think that mental work is for sissies... What comes to be considered abnormal is generally something that only a minority does... In the case of kids, they seem such a fundamental thing to have that only people who are somewhat screwed up would not have them (I mean, this is the general mentality)... And most of us want to have kids by definition, that's how our brain functions, that's how we are here, generation after generation... In any case, NOT having kids I usually feel like I'm tolerated, but I perceive some kind of resentment many times. Like I'm not carrying my share of the burden... So, at minimum I shuould put up with other people's kids when they run around and scream...

I've heard my fair share of the snarky remarks and patronizing "oh, you'll change your mind" kind of things.

I chalk some of it up to resentment, sure. Even people I know who are very happy being parents might well have moments of envying my relative freedom. Remember, all new parents are sleep-deprived and may well say things they wouldn't if they were in their right minds....I try to cut my baby-parent friends some slack in this regard. Don't do the same for fundies and busybody strangers, though.

Perhaps I am not carrying "my share" of some "burden" but it's not as if homo sapiens sapiens is an endangered spieces. :eyes: Everybody doesn't have to do it. Really. It should only be the people who really, really want to.

the other animals.
Breeding is not such a big accomplishment

I love my nieces and nephews, but I don't have the desire to have a child of my own for many reasons ... economic and health issues are certainly at the top of the list. But it's more than that. It's just not something I feel the "need" to do ... you know what mean?

Kids, shmids. Ask people with kids (get them drunk first) if they'd do it again if they had it to do all over. The answers will surprise you - if they're honest.

We had kids and I'm glad. But that was a long time ago. Now, I watch these "professional parents" and I gag in disgust. These assholes act as if they invented reproduction. And their kids are growing up to believe they're the center of the universe. Gonna be a hard crash when the world intrudes on their imaginary, unreal little worlds.

In the meantime, I have to deal with these dickwads in real life. And they believe that because I'm a mother, they have some sort of fucking special BOND with me. One of the joys of my life is disabusing them of that notion when I tell them that I'm not particularly nuts about kids - except mine.

Platonically, of course:) My wife just red that and agrees w/ you, too...

:)

we're still not having kids.

now, they think different. We are still abnormal, but digging it

Ah, as long as the planet holds out, I will SO ENJOY many long, long days of a healthy body, as much of my money as I can manage to keep for myself, as much freedom as I can manage to claw back from this sick, fascist goverment of ours. AH, the joys of no kids to impair my development, career and otherwise. Me and all the smart men of this world who have the intelligence to have procured vasectomies shall continue to have fabulous, guiltless, stressless hot sex. I love my world without children. It's so great.

Especially considering the odds of us all frying in a firey nuclear blast just any old time. I'm so happy I didn't bring anyone else onto the planet to die along with me.

My kids are the joys of my life. They are hands down the greatest thing I've ever done or experienced.

I don't need anyone to feel sorry for me for the laughter and love I have with these two fantastic beings.

If someone else does not have, want, or like children, I have no problem with them. They do not, however, need to feel sorry for me. I'm fine, and I'm very happy being mother to my three children.

All about my independence; etc. etc. Now I couldn't be happier; go figure. To each their own, though.

when I was about 10...the genes stop here! I've come to think of it as proactive evolution. My mom's side of the family is full of mental illness, pedophila...frankly: they are nuts! I would probably be instutionalized if it wasn't for the balancing genes from my dad. Why would I pass that on, and then have to worry about what havoc my genes might have wrought? Even Hitler had parents....

such as "I am abnormal" or "I am selfish" for not wanting children. My question is thus: Do other people really give a shit about your procreational intent? I mean, I can't think of one person in my life who would give me true and honest grief about this. People may make an offhand comment here or there, but I really don't know of any intensely difficult conversations my childless pals and I have had to face due to our lack of spawn.

It seems like of all the ways one could deviate from the norm, so to speak, this is the one that would get other people the least riled up.
Example:
"I want to kill seven randomly selected people. Am I abnormal?"
Yes.
"I don't want to have children. Am I abnormal?"
No.

But I know I could never handle the responsibility, or provide a healthy role model. And I'm not ashamed to admit that.

...my wife feels the same way. I used to think that I'd be more inclined to have kids as I got older but it was actually the opposite that happened.

We weren't interested in reproducing and still aren't.

One of the more interesting aspects of not having kids and getting older is the "well-meaning" comments either vanish, or the comebacks get better. Here's one that's worked well for us: "Why is it any of your business?"

Julie

--Best answer to nosy people who ask when are you going to have children, or why don't you have any children. I was married long ago (very young). My fiance and I were doing our obligatory marriage instruction with a thankfully modern priest, who didn't blanch when we said we were using birth control, and that was his recommended line for what to say to people who got noodgy about kids.

It's amazing! It shuts people right up.

I have taken a lot of guff over the years for this choice.

:hi:

With the world getting crazier - IMO - and the food supply and resources becoming more questionable - it would more difficult to decide to have kids.

It's a different world where people must come a decision to have kids - instead of it being a natural outcome...


When did you get married?

(I don't hang out in the lounge much - you probably mentioned it and I missed it).

Congrats!

and I hate the culture that recognizes women not for who we are but by our biological processes. Can't stand the romanticization of what amounts to a lifetime of servitude for women. Some people, men and women, get great joy from parenting, but the bias that all women want nothing more than to coo at babies and clean shit and listen to the babble of toddlers 24/7 drives me insane with anger!

Can't tell you how many women I've met, aged before their time, depressed, bitter, unappreciated by the children for whom they sacrificed their interests, earning power, goals and so much more. And, guilt ridden for not being thrilled to have thrown away their lives for those kids.

I'll never forget the Ann Landers poll I saw years ago--it asked women, if you could do it over, would you have kids? ~73% said NO!
But that's a little known fact that the forces of pronatalism would prefer not get any publicity.

Not to mention, overpopulation is killing us. Its not a matter of propagating the species anymore with us, its a matter of STOP or ELSE!

We call that time "when we were single."

Those were very beautiful years, and, now that's it ended, our life has been far less independent than it once was. But I can honestly say, problems and all, that being a father is one of the most magnificient things I have ever done.

That said, I have no problem whatsoever with childless families. The world is vastly over populated, which is the root of most of the serious environmental problems we face. In fact, although I love both my sons tremendously, it was selfish on our part to have two.

You are not abnormal in any way. The last thing the world needs is people who have children merely out of a need to fit in.

so I don't feel the same need to continue my genes as lots of other people do; I believe that I'll continue on in my next life.

Why do we exist? I believe to learn. To me, life is a big school, and, as a rule, I believe that most liberals have more evolved souls. I believe that most conservatives are much newer to this thing called life and have not yet learned to think beyond themselves and their own situation. Most have not yet received the gift of empathy. I think that it really is a big spiritual leap to go from a conservative soul to a liberal soul.

I'm not trying to convince anyone else... just stating my beliefs.