Red Sox fans: the All Star game should be fun this year!

For the first time, we have OUR guy running the show and picking the reserves/pitchers. Here's hoping Terry Francona pulls a Torre and puts half the Sox lineup on the team!

Torre was actually known for picking lots of players from other teams so as not to give other teams any more of a reason to hate the Yankees. There are very few instances of Torre picking a Yankee who didn't deserve to be on the team.

If a Yankees fan advocated putting lots of Yankees on who don't truly belong on the team, they'd be crucified. You sox fans are a bunch of hypocrites.

And there were plenty of borderline All-Stars Torre selected. I fully expect the same treatment this year by the Red Sox manager. It's absolutely an asshole thing to do, but that's how you reward your own players, so it's going to be done no matter what you say or think about, and no matter which team's manager is picking the team. So as a fan of the Red Sox, why wouldn't I enjoy the opportunity to see my favorite players in the All Star game?

Years in which Torre has been the manager of the All-Star team

in 1997, Yankee All-Stars:

Tino Martinez (44 homers)
Paul O'Neill
Mariano Rivera
Bernie Williams

1999:

Bernie Williams
David Cone
Mariano Rivera
Derek Jeter

2000:

Jeter
Williams
Rivera
Jorge Posada

2001:

Roger Clemens
Jeter
Andy Pettitte
Posada
Rivera
Stanton
Williams

2002:

Giambi (voted in)
Jeter
Posada
Rivera
Soriano

2004:

Giambi (voted in and obviously not deserving)
Tom Gordon
Jeter
Matsui (voted in though still deserving)
Rivera
A-Rod (voted in though probably still deserving)
Gary Sheffield
Javier Vazquez

So as far as I can see, there are three questionable picks. Stanton, Gordon, and Vazquez. Stanton and Gordon were the best middle relievers in their respective years, but perhaps middle relievers don't belong on All-Star teams. Vazquez had a horrible second half, but had had a very good first one, though I still think he shouldn't have been picked.

So where's the Torre homerism?

i think the better arguement (from a non-yankee fan) wouLd be to compare who didn't make the teams those years. there's beLLyaching every year over who gets snubbed (for some reason marty barret in 87ish comes to mind - there's no reason i shouLd remember that).

Personally, I'd blame that more on the stupid rule about every team having to be represented. It put guys on like Jose Rosado and Paul Quantrill, etc, who had no business anywhere near an all-star team. But yes, probably if Torre had to choose between two deserving guys, he gave an edge to his own player.

My basic point is that Yankee-bashing is great, but it ought to be done with some modicum of intelligence and facts rather than just throwing out stupid shit someone said on WEEI. And it's also stupid to condemn the Yankees and then say, literally in the same message, that the Sox ought to act the same way.

Posada's first two All Star appearances were bullshit. No way he should've gotten them. He's earned his spot since, but it's easy to forget vast outrage at him being picked.

In 2000, his first appearance, Posada hit .287, with a .417 OBP, and a .527 SLG. He hit 28 homers, had 87 RBI and walked over 100 times. From the catcher position? That's fantastic! It was easily the best year of his career (even better than 2003 when he finished 3rd in the MVP voting.)

In 2001, he wasn't quite as good, but still hit 22 homers and had 95 RBI, and mostly all of it came in the *first half.* Ivan Rodriguez was the clear starter that year, but Posada absolutely merited a backup position.

So what's your point?

And so was Frank Thomas. Both were left off in favor of Posada. He was a borderline All Star, at best.

is a borderline all-star, then you just don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Frank Thomas was hitting .340 with 25 homers and 72 RBIs.

Thomas obviously should have been on the team. But not at the expense of Posada. He should have been on at the expense of Fred McGriff, or Cal Ripken, or Aaron Sele, or Ray Durham or Mike Bordick. It totally sucks that Thomas wasn't on the team. As I said to Sniffa, I blame that much more on the stupid rule about having a player from every team. For instance, this year, there shouldn't be anyone on the NL team from the Rockies. And there shouldn't be anyone on the AL team from the Devil Rays.

I hope you can see how this is an entirely different problem from the argument you first set forth about undeserving Yankees.

But I think both problems exist. There's always going to be favoritism, no matter who picks the team - players, fans, or coaches.

"why wouldn't I enjoy the opportunity to see my favorite players in the All Star game?"

Because if you're a real baseball fan, you want to see the *best* players in the all-star game. I'm a Yankees fan, but I still want to see David Ortiz and Matt Clement there. If Kevin Millar or Keith Foulke ends up on the team, it's just a mockery.

You just don't want the same bullshit to happen to you that's happened to the REST of the league for years! And you pass yourself off as a "real baseball fan". Yeah, and George W. Bush is a real American hero too.

And did you just compare me to Bush? That's against the rules, my friend.

Apparently, you read about as well as you know baseball. Did you see the part where I said I wanted to see the best players, no matter what team they're on? Are you capable of using actual facts or do you just spout Red Sox talking points?

The point I was making is that you're trying to label YOURSELF a "real baseball fan", which by inference, means that I am not. That's the same thing Bush does with patriotism - labels himself the patriot and by inference, we liberals are not. It's the EXACT same method.

And what "knowledge" have you brought to the table? A list of Yankee All Stars? That's hardly Peter Gammons quality investigative work. No, all you've really done is say that if I were a true baseball fan, I'd want to see the best players, and I do. It's also fun seeing your team get the nod they deserve, especially after being on the negative end of the All Star snubs over the years. That doesn't make me any less a fan of the game than you. And trying to bathe yourself in baseball purity doesn't hide the fact that you're just being bitter, and you have every right to be. I admit I was bitter the years the Yankees were doing it. That's an okay thing to do. That's part of fun of spectator sports.

you are obviously not open to the possibility that you might just be wrong. Reminds me of someone too...