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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 01:12 PM
Original message
Who enjoys research? I need to cite a quote.
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson

Jefferson is credited with this quote all over the net. But I cannot find when and under what circumstance he said or wrote it. Does anyone know?

This is in my dissertation. I would really like to be more precise than Bartlett's Quotations.

Thanks!
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. hmmmmmm....... not finding a legit source
for the quote nor a specific reference to time/place, etc... Did find these quotes about tyrants and tyranny though that looked pretty interesting if you can use them instead.



Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematical plan of reducing us to slavery. --

TITLE: Rights of British America.
EDITION: Washington ed. i, 130.
EDITION: Ford ed., i, 435.
PLACE:
DATE: 1774


A prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant is unfit to be the ruler of a people who mean to be free. 495 --

TITLE: Declaration of Independence as Drawn by Jefferson.


The general insurrection of the world against its tyrants will ultimately prevail by pointing the object of government to the happiness of the people, and not merely to that of their self-constituted governors. --

TITLE: To Marquis Lafayette.
EDITION: Ford ed., x, 233.
PLACE: Monticello
DATE: 1822
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Unfortunately it's not the tyranny aspect that fits...
it's the silence.

Thanks for trying!!!
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. no prob
I really do like the research part...... if you want to elaborate on what you're looking for "generally", I'll be glad to help if I can.

Now you've got me curious, though. This extensively quoted "quote" of Jefferson that I can't find in a legit ref of Jefferson's..... hmmmmmmm.....

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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Let's see....
This section of my dissertation is about Fromm's three methods of escape from freedom. Authoritarianism, destructiveness and conformity. I referenced the stupid Amy R. comment on MSNBC from the fourth of July.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200507050003

I'm using it as an example of enculturating people to consider unquestioning loyalty a socio-ethical norm and protest to be anathema. I wanted to contrast that with statements from the founding fathers that propose the exact opposite....given that it happened on the fourth of July.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Jefferson
Jefferson....

The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. --

TITLE: To Mrs. John Adams.
EDITION: Ford ed., iv, 370.
PLACE: Paris
DATE: 1787

********

Jefferson on Shay's Rebellion: "

Wonderful is the effect of impudent and persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat, and model into every form, lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, <* * *> and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusetts? And can history produce one instance of rebellion so honorably conducted? I say nothing of its motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. --

TITLE: To W. S. Smith.
EDITION: Washington ed. ii, 318.
EDITION: Ford ed., iv, 467.
PLACE: Paris
DATE: 1787

********
or this: "What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that the people preserve the spirit of resistance? --

TITLE: To W. S. Smith.
EDITION: Washington ed. ii, 318.
EDITION: Ford ed., iv, 467.
PLACE: Paris
DATE: 1787

*********


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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Madison
Protection against Majority

The prescriptions in favor of liberty, ought to be levelled against that quarter where the greatest danger lies, namely, that which possesses the highest prerogative of power: But this not found in either the executive or legislative departments of government, but in the body of the people, operating by the majority against the minority.

It may be thought all paper barriers against the power of the community are too weak to be worthy of attention…yet, as they have a tendency to impress some degree of respect for them, to establish the public opinion in their favor, and rouse the attention of the whole community, it may be one mean to control the majority from those acts to which they might be otherwise inclined.
Proposing Bill of Rights to House, June 8, 1789

Freedom of Speech and Press

he right of freely examining public characters and measures, and of free communication among the people thereon…has ever been justly deemed the only effectual guardian of every other right.
Virginia Resolutions, 1798

****

Resistance

Extreme cases of oppression justify… a resort to the original right of resistance, a right belonging to every community, under every form of Government…
Letter to N. P. Trist, December, 1831 (Madison, 1865, IV, page 206)

****

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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. You are a gem. Thank you!
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. ah
It's attributed to Edmund BURKE!

"Here is where you would expect that famous quote from Edmund Burke. Something like ‘All that’s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.’ Not sure of the exact quote, I looked it up. Here’s what I found: ‘When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.*’ Not quite the same thing, but easy to understand the transformation, a good quote made better by its passing into common wisdom." . . .

The quote you seek is generally attributed to Edmund Burke, an 18th
Century British Statesman, famous for impeaching Warren Hastings, book on the French Revolution ("Reflections on the Revolution In France") and some fairly liberal positions towards the American colonies. To my knowledge, no one has ever *found* the quote in any of his writings, and it remains more elusive than 1943 copper pennies. Your form is close enough, given that the original has never been found; however, I’ve usually seen it more in the form of "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to succeed/triumph is for enough good men to do nothing." Frank Lynch"
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:6iAN0-SQTS0J:www.tartarus.org/~martin/essays/burkequote2.html+tyranny+remain+silent&hl=en

***********

dunno who started the Jefferson rumour......
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. The largest collection of ...
... Jefferson documents is that of the Library of Congress. In a word search of the collection only an autobiography manuscript fragment contains most of the words in the quote. The actual quote, however, does not appear. Not all of the letters are transcribed--some only exist as scans of earlier microfilm images. Some are not transcribed because of copyright concerns.

You might look at the University of Virginia collection, and also the Monticello research web page:

http://www.monticello.org/research/index.html

Hope that helps.

Cheers.
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