When does a mom have to let go?

Pardon my rant, just wanted some input on one of my sons
Hes almost 21, and we went thru hell this summer when he lived at home. He has a good heart and is a good person, but he had wayyy too much money from his fathers death handed to him at 18, and he got involved in drugs..specifically Oxys last year ..its a long story, but I kicked him out on his own to make his own way..
He has a history of back problems, and I think one of the reasons he was looking for the Oxys was from the need for "no pain" after the doctor had given him a limited supply of Vicodin
MY problem is , I worry...I dont bother him, and realize thats a sign of trust..but just recently his trustee called me concerned about the large amounts of money my son was spending..I didnt want to get involved, and I told him to talk to my son
I asked my son yesterday, and he said he buys "some" grass to cope thru the day...hell I dont know how much that stuff costs, but I do know its illegal, even if he is in a college town and he has been in trouble once already for it..
I was 20, I was in a commune, I remember doing all this shit ...
Maybe this is karma payback.
But I didnt tell my parents, and Id really rather not KNOW what hes doing...
I do worry tho, and am terrified I will get that call in the middle of the night that something horrible has happened..
I like to think in a few years he will grow up and be mature and get a job and have a family and everything will get better..
I am seeing a doctor who has diagnosed me with "chronic anxiety", and says its my age..(haha)..the bastard..well, I guess as you age you can freak easier.
anyway, got any tips? suggestions? I know, I know...he needs to grow up, its not my place to manage his life...and I wont..
But he always looks like hes doing okay, then he screws up and comes home and tells me..I just tell him he needs to see a counselor..
He was not beaten by me as a kid, I stayed home with him and raised him, and he had a good childhood even tho his dad died when he was little...
so now, I guess I am done with my rant..any other older moms out there watch their kid from afar and worry and then the kid turned out okay eventually?

I hope that you don't start taking prescriptions from him. If possible, start taking out your "chronic anxiety" on a punching bag or do some form of exercise that you like.

How can you help your son? He seems to want to disattach himself with the world. He could be having hallucinations of granduer.

Do you notice the cycle? This is a never ending cycle. He has obviously stuck himself in a hole and cannot get out.

Do you love your son? Because if you do, you would want him to keep himself alive.

Now, I am only 19 years old and I have never been a parent. However, I think you have only one choice and that is to turn him in. You either should turn him in to the authorities or send him to a rehabilitarion center. If you cannot convince him to go to a rehabilition center, then talk to a lawyer and see what legal options you have. There could be a way where he could automatically go to rehab without going to jail. But I am not sure.

If you live in a state that has no option for drug users and automatically send them to jail, then I am not sure what to do. It could be your own last hope if you still love your son.

But take other opinions on this thread before you take mine.

and he knows where he can go for help. I have to allow him to go for help on his own. Otherwise I would be taking away his adulthood and treating him like a baby. He has moved out on his own, and some of the depression is normal part of being on your own , as I recall.
You cant make an adult get help, as MY counselor tells me. You can support them helping themselves.
I guess I am trying to do that, and its a fine line to walk.

You know, this kind of stuff is just a lot more expensive these days. And not just in the financial sense. People tend to get very isolated when they do this stuff because of the guilt they feel. I'm not sure if you're looking for advice, but if you were mine would be to not let the guilt get to him, no matter what. Make this an issue that is right out in the open, and don't attack him over it. Make it a "quality of life" issue, and make sure that he knows it's entirely okay to talk about. That may even mean in front of Grandma and Grandpa or close friends...that's at least the impression that he should have.

You know, back in the day when there were minibuses full of stoners people using drugs were never alone. Just make sure that doesn't happen with him, and I think he'll be alright.

typossss

My son is 20 and in college, as well. Not doing really bad drugs, but drinking and pot...we have the oppostite money thing happening with me in debt up to my ears and him spending like a drunken sailor.
I have told my son that if he gets caught with pot, he may very well lose his financial aid, thanks to new Bush policy...it doesn't sink in. He knows mom "inhaled."
So I think all you can do is give him your best, most logical explaination on why you think he is on the wrong path and try to get him to see a counselor. He obvisouly wants some kind of help or he wouldn't keep coming to you when he is in trouble. The hard part is telling him you are no longer going to listen to his difficulties if he is not going to take your suggestions seriously.

Good luck, and if you want to chat more about it, send me an e-mail.
:hug:
LuLu

on edit: DO NOT turn him into the cops! He will lose his finacial aid for college and they are not about to help him with the counseling and pyscological support he obvisouly needs!

doesn't share the same experience and circumstances you refer to, so just wanted to offer a hug. :hug:

And, being a good mom that worries about the well being of her kids when they have a history of screwing up causes anxiety. It's not because of your age. :eyes:

You are making your son take responsibility for himself and deal with his own problems instead of bailing him out and controlling and managing them yourself. You are right, and I don't know if I could be that strong. I think you are doing a commendable job. :thumbsup:

sometimes I just need to hear that...I can only give suggestions to him, I cant DO it for him....
Im sure in time, he will grow up, and the healthiest way to cope with it is to let him struggle...
and learn.

Ask the doc about starting on Zoloft.
It helps with my girlfriends "chronic anxiety" as well.
Its an old, well used drug and might help.

Other than that, ya just gotta let the guy make his own mistakes.
Life is a learning process and some people need hands on learning.

Mojo

... I´m the finally grown up child that managed to come out of trouble without too much damage.
When I was in my twenties, I did similar things as your son. I had enough money and time to do some awful things (not so much with drugs but with lots of alcohol), and I´m very happy that my mom didn´t know a quarter of what really happened.
But there came a time, when I learned that other things were more important for me, and luckily I could turn around

So be confident! I´m sure your son will find his way, too.

survived his teens.. Each one is different, but ours fell in with a bad crowd, and no amount of our intervention made any difference to him.. He was also involved in drugs, but he stole from us to support his habit.. Mari, this is very hard, but you will have to watch him "crash".. Until HE wants to change his life, it will not happen..

The trust fund is a major complication, but you may have to go to court and if you can prove that he is incompetent to handle his own affairs, you could be made conservator.. If there is a decent amount left, it would be a good thing to try and preserve it for when he finally figures things out.. Is there any way you could convince him to seek counselling?? Sometimes that works..

If it does not help, at least he would have it handled responsibly.. As hard as it is to imagine, he may meet a girl, who will turn him around. That's what happened to our son.. He met a girl that he was crazy about, and she laid the law down.. He cleaned up his act and is now almost 26, and is a straight arrow.. They are no longer together, but it lasted long enough for him to see clearly.. he has a good job and lives in Seattle..

Once they are in their teens, they are kind of "lost" to us. Our opinions and desires for them are not as important as what their friends think..

I tried to tell him over and over, that he was making life-changing decisions because of people that he would not even remember 5 years later, but until he grew up, he did not believe me..

If he will not go to counselling, it sounds like it wqould benefit YOU.. They anxiety you feel will resolve itself, when you give yourself permission to let him go.. It may mean actually moving him out..

If there is enough money in the fund, what about buying a condo?? That is something that he could not easliy "piss away" and he would have a place of his own.. He might actually meet people who could affect his life..

He is probably not interested in school, but maybe you could talk him into taking classes in things that interest him, and are not necessarily for a career.. maybe he would find a craft or skill that could start him on the road to a livlihood..

PM me if you want to go into more detail... I have been where you are..

school, class, meet some people, a job....so far he has not done it..
He is in that "floundering" state of figuring out what its like to have to pay bills, manage money, and make mistakes..
He also has a lot of anxiety, and doesnt like the feeling of it...
I agree...a girlfriend would be great , thats what shaped up my first 2 sons..
My first son told me panic attacks occured for him when he moved on his own..I suppose this is similar..
and I recently found out that my first son also got involved in a few messes...(glad I didnt know about them)..boot camp seems to have cured him of that..
I guess I can just give him advice when he asks for it, but I cant bail him out...thats the fine line....and as for the money, legally he can have it in this state at 18...
In a way , I hope he runs through it all. Then he will be forced to face no money and get a job.
Hey I flipped burgers in college! I have to remember when I was 19, all alone on my own, and I made it through despite my idiocy.
thanks

"The trust fund is a major complication, but you may have to go to court and if you can prove that he is incompetent to handle his own affairs, you could be made conservator.. If there is a decent amount left, it would be a good thing to try and preserve it for when he finally figures things out.. Is there any way you could convince him to seek counselling?? Sometimes that works.."


I know the money is the least important focus of the issues here, but it is one that enables him to make bad decisions. Sometimes I think we need to protect those funds from misuse by someone who doesn't understand how to manage it. (I have a family member who is having to do this to protect her grandchildren from their father's irresponsibleness.) I think he'll be grateful later, especially considering how difficult it is to "get ahead" these days.

Good luck, Mari. Lots of hugs to you.

Sorry about your son angst. I have two older ones and a 16 yr old who all resolutely asserted themselves including doing recreational drugs etc which didn't exactly add to my personal serenity either! And isn't 'chronic anxiety' in most mothers' job descriptions???

Sounds like your lad needs to tackle the back pain issue and see a specialist to see if it's a muscle problem or to do with bones or nerve connections; an injury or something connected with a condition (arthritis/rheumatism??) Prescription painkillers are notoriously habit-forming and their analgesic potency wanes. Is he doing grass because it's a muscle relaxant as well as effective pain-killer? Back pain is notoriously awful to cope with. Non surgical remedies that can sometimes help include Alexander technique - posture relearning and deportment improvement - and osteopathy - manipulation of bones and muscles to iron out remnants of injury/trauma.

Perhaps it's worth talking to him about this.

In my experience, conversations with my own sons when they are at their prickliest usually have to start with making it clear that saying 'I'm worried about you' does not mean 'I'm taking your inventory'. Sometimes it can be pretty much hit and miss to say 'this is a conversation because we need to talk'. Boy moodiness knows no bounds when a mother is the easiest dumping target around!

You say that he lost his father a few years ago. Can't be easy to be at that age and suffer the loss of a parent.

I once did some bereavement counselling with one of my older kids - a kind of couples counselling for mums and boys. While it wasn't the easiest thing to set up in the first place, it did get us talking about things that had been assumed for a long time to be the unspoken obvious. Don't know whether that could be relevant, but may be worth a shot...

Good luck to you Mari333: we moms need it more than most admit!

doc has seen it, really great back specialist...said my son has the spine of a 50 yr old man..
I have also shown my son where the healing massage center is, he knows, its a mile from his place..I studied there, and I have suggested massage as a relaxant..
Like I said, I cant MAKE him go, altho I wish I could.

No wonder you are worried and battling on with your stalwart 'letting go' action plan. Don't know any mom who wouldn't be extremely worried in your position.

I guess there's only one thing you can do, and that's keep up the communication effort. Might just motivate him in the end to take responsibility for himself without adding to your load.

How about he spends some of his inheritance on a second opinion from another back specialist to see what new options there are to get it sorted? Worth a shot?

We are mothers for life. Just because a child is almost 21 doesnt make them an adult. Some children grow up fast, some slow.

I've stepped in -- I've stepped out (I have two older children, 21, 23 and one 15 going on 30). Both are now finally in college in spite of themselves (I'm a divorced single mom by the way, I did it on my own).

Its better and more productive to stay "stepped in". In spite of you thinking they arent listening, they are. Your words and your love mean something - dont ever stop if you are feeling things are wrong. I've showed up at friend's houses, I've made middle of the night phone calls, I've checked ID's of friends that have come over to our house and want to have a drink.

The police and "authority" figures do not know what is best for your child. It is your child, you know best.

It was just last night that my son the 21 yr old, said to me, thank you for saving me from myself.

Best of luck, stay strong. Some of us have walked in your shoes.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

they had serious substance abuse problems and their father (with whom they lived) said "Well they're over 21 and there's nothing I can do). So, one died in 1996 of a drug overdose and the other in 2001 in a drunk driving accident (blood alcohol was 2.8).

There's no easy answer for this but I think parents have to consider taking assertive action even if they're over 21. Notice, I said consider it! Only you might know if it's the right thing.

But, think about this. Remember the Ed Asner ocmmercials after his son died of a drug overdose? He said something like this "Whatever you have to do, do it!" "Also, Martin Sheen didn't let Charlie Sheen continue with his drug use even though he was way over 21. And Charlie is alive and on the wrong track."

Then there's the personal story of mine. I was 22 and on the wrong track. My mother called and said she was coming to pick me up and take me home. I told she couldn't do that, I was over 21. She said "I'm your mother and yes, I can." So, she did and I've been grateful ever since. Of course, you'd have had to know my mother. A wonderful woman but when the chips were down, she fought like a tiger for the well-being of her kids. She let us make plenty of mistakes on our own but somehow knew which ones could ruin our lives.

Anyway, have you considered an intervention? That might be something to consider.

Hope this isn't too harsh but wanted to reassure you that sometimes it's appropriate to take action even if the person is over 21.

Hugs to you. It's a hard place to be.

On edit:

Get in touch with Al-Anon. It's where you can get what you need for yourself and that can help you make better decisions.

Please convince your son to get some help! He won't grow out of this without some serious help. This situation sounds eerily like the one with my brother, yet I acknowledge they are very different.

My brother had a similar problem. My dad committed suicide when my brother was 16, and my brother was left his benefits, which he used to buy drugs. He was a poly substance abuser whose drug use masked deeper problems, like depression.

My mom was in complete denial about his drug use for many years, even when she found out he had tried heroin. She convinced him only Jesus could help him, and even berated couselors as being too 'worldly', so he became convinced no one could help him. He never grew out of his drug use. Eventually, we all got together and decided to put him in rehab, but it was too late. He skipped out and we told him that was it (God, how I regret that). Two weeks later, he was dead.

He was 27 when he overdosed. We found a note in his wallet written on a church program specifying how he wanted to be cremated, dated a week earlier, so I am convinced he overdosed on purpose, since he knew mixing the two drugs found in his system was a no-no.

Also--my sister and I would take him in from time to time, but eventually we'd have to ask him to leave because the situation would become dangerous for the kids, so you had little choice but to ask your son to leave.

On edit: Don't give up on your son. I will always regret the 'tough love' stance I took with my brother. I don't believe that 'tough love' is a good thing unless you are willing to lose that person. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I suggest you get counseling as well so you are better able to handle the situation with your son. It's plain to see why you might have 'chronic anxiety' (weird term, since anxiety can be managed). I wish you all the best in this situation.

.

I was in your son's shoes once, and hope I can offer some effective sugestions. I'd like to soft-pedal this, but I probably can't, so I'll try to be as dispassionate as I can.

And I would like to apologize right up-front if any of this does hit harder than I intend it to.

First, "kicking him out" of the house for being addicted to oxycontin and dabbling with street drugs was probably not a good idea. It's the ToughLove™ solution, but it works much better for violence than for drug problems. On his own, he's out of your sphere of influence. At 21 you shouldn't be concerned with trying to discipline him, but to influence him, which will get easier and more effective as time goes on.

Drug abuse is a very nasty business, and he could quickly surround himself with stoners. If he's lucky, it would be a crowd that's simply into weed, and that's that. If not, well, your imagination can fill in the blanks.

The fact that he's in a college town bodes well for him. College kids tend to avoid opiates, especially those who have read any of William S. Burroughs' stuff on addiction.

I have considerable personal experience with being 20 and addicted to painkillers for pain. In my case, it was cancer, which I got over; the pain continued, and the drugs helped me get through school, but I then had the challenge of dealing with the drugs. It's a real situation, not a self-indulgence. Your best route, as I see it, is to steer him away from the street drug scene, not worry too much about the marijuana, and try to get him into a pain-control program where he can get narcotic painkillers AND proper medical monitoring.

If he's busted with weed, the judge will probably see what's what and sentence him to get his medical problems handled along with his drug abuse. Even, most of the time, if it's a second offense (though it is not a sure thing in any situation). But if he's caught with heroin, cocaine, or illicit Oxys, pressure will be on His or Her Honor to "send a message". So this could be a very persuasive argument in itself.

Karmic payback? That's a punishment fantasy the media has foisted on Baby Boomers to play on their anxieties. Most problems with drugs don't come from the chemicals, they come from the social and legal mess we've made for ourselves collectively. And your childraising methods probably had nothing to do with his drug problem. Maybe in his choice of girlfriends, but not his choice of painkillers.

And please get treatment for your own anxiety. It is very easy to overload on panic, since so much of it comes from brain physiology rather than rational insight.

This isn't an unsolvable problem. Get your anxiety handled, and talk straight about the problems you each face. Even the immature are interested in The Big Picture. In this case, The Big Picture would be keeping him from falling into the addictive lifestyle, AND getting effective medical treatment.

The good news? You have a better-than-even chance to work this out, and probably fairly quickly.

Best of luck to your son, and to you. Feel free to contact me by e-mail or DU message if you wish.

Maybe you can get your son interested in DU, too; I've known many stoners who replaced compulsive drug use with community and political activism. And that would be a tremendous outcome!

--bkl

because it was in this town that the illegal drugs were so available..and I couldnt go thru one more night of wondering where he was...I was a basket case, and had the cops in my yard one night too many ..I couldnt take it anymore..
He likes being on his own, and I think if I would have kept him here we would have both gone insane..or I would have moved out and left ..it was that bad..
I guess I cant control what he does, and thats it..I have a call into my counselor now, and I hope she can help me know where to draw the line.

The question in your subject line is 'when does a mom have to let go?'
I would never pretend to know the answer to that. My son is 14 and I'm already dreading the day I have to totally let go, but let me share one or two things I have learned.
I have three nephews, 31, 28 and 23 yrs old. Each and every one of them has had their issues with drugs to some extent over the years. My poor sister has tried just about every approach imaginable with them all. One of them hasn't yet conquered his addiction, another fought hard and won the battle and the other never did more than just dabble when he was a teenager.
I've learned by watching each of these situations unfold that what works for one child almost certainly wont work for another.
I've learned that it is absolutely imperative that as his mother you must never give up on him.
I've learned that even though conventional wisdom will tell you that when your child becomes a chronological adult you need to let go, that same conventional wisdom rarely takes into account the arrested development that almost always accompanies drug addiction. For that reason I've developed a deep conviction that as mothers it is our duty to continue to parent our children for as long as they need it, no matter their age.
It might feel right to try and force him to face his issues like an adult. I completely understand that feeling, and it is the correct approach for some, but I would only ask you to consider if your son is one of those who still desperately needs your strength and motherly wisdom, quite possibly on the same level he did when he was younger. He is facing a formidable foe and, from my experience with my nephews, I can almost guarantee he is more frightened by it than you might realize.

Most importantly, work to make yourself well so that you CAN be there to think clearly for him.
I sincerely hope it all works out well for you and your son. You are obviously a loving and concerned mother.
With profound empathy and a hope that you will accept my reply in the spirit with which it was offered.

-chef-

I was nearly 17 when I realized that my mother was one of the stupidest people who had ever walked the earth. Four years only intensified my idea that she was just a "haus frau" with little of any value to offer. (I was doing lots of marijuana etc at this stage of my life). By age 24 I had started liking her again and by 26 I realized how stupid I was and how wise she was. That understanding and our closeness grew for the next 22 years until her death in late 1999.

When does a mother turn loose? I'm not sure. Mine's still with me (in my head, only, of course) telling me what to do and what not to do. Most of the time I listen.

Enough is enough, already!

But I can answer one of your questions. Unless he is being ripped off, pot costs $100 to $125 an ounce. At my peak I was smoking 2 ounces (ie. $200) a month and that's a LOT - smoking from the time I got home from work to right before bed, and all day on weekends. So if he is spending significant amounts of money on drugs he is either smoking more pot than is healthy or is doing a more serious drug. The previous pain-killer addiction is a big warning sign; opiates, after all, are extremely addictive (ask Rush Limbaugh). Another thing to keep in mind is that drug addicts, unfortunately, tend to learn to be very convincing liars.

Best of luck. Sounds like a very sad situation.

The fact he has a lot of money means he also probably has a lot of stoner friends mooching off him right now. This happened to a friend of my daughter who pissed away his inheritance in less than 2 years because he bought presents, booze, and other chemicals for his moocher "friends." Once the money was gone the "friends" were gone, too.

I work with kids in trouble and I was kinda kid in trouble too.

The number 1 thing you need to do wityh him is be totally honest. Brutally so.

You probably need to get in his life more than he wants you to )BUT you have to do it in a way that is totally accepting of HIS choices for good or bad. BUT also be totally and brutally honest with him.

If he is blowing his inheritance he needs a job and he needs to be sdtraight enough to hold down a job.

Oxy addiction is probably as bad as a crack addiction and when one does not properly get off Oxy they will probably go to crack or alternate street drugs which can be suicidal - so you cannot bullshit around weith him if you want him to survive.

Therapy is great but part of the anxiety comes from not DOING anything -- so you have to be proactive. Intrude in his life. Go TO him and just hang out and see what he does. Go OUT with him. Go to a movie. Get coffee. Let him smoke a joint with you there (Marijuana though illegal is actually a good medicine for those in pain - though it muddles the mind enopugh to make one NOT want to be motivated to get a job and k9ick ass in life.)

Your son needs something OTHER than drugs to get him high. Music. Acting. Poetry. FUN.

So you may have to actually drag him kicking and screaming to do something FUN and STAY with him.

Love may not cure him but as long as he knows you really care enough to ride it out with him maybe you can find common ground . In terms of treatment the BEST treatment is something that distracts you enough and is worthwhile enough so that the drugs don't do it as well.

He MAY need methadone if he is still addicted TO Oxycontin OR PAINKILLERS and while this is not A PERFECT solution it might be advisable. He needs a doctor to treat his addictions as well as his pain and you need to drag him there.

He is obviously unhappy, in pain, and depressed and escapism is natural and actually somewhat okay - as long as it is not out of control. But if he is out of control and his spending habits reflect that then he MAY need a conservator until he gets treatment or help and can demonstrate that he is competent to stay OFF of serious illegal drugs (I would not include marijuana in that).

BUT you need to see and understand from him and with him what is really happening. You can NEVER let go unless he totally disrespects and rejects you and HE wants you gone.

Go to him. Get some coffe. Go for a ride. Don't tralk much. Let him talk. Go somewhere cool like the mountains or a retreat or a concert and just BE together. THAT will help to heal him little by little.

Drugs make the sensory sytem not respond normally so it will take time and patience on your part. But as long as you are just THERE (physically) for him (not being Mom but being an honest friend) - then he can use the opportunity to grow and to heal.

You cannot tell him ANYTHING. You just have to BE there so he can ask you or tell you what he needs to/

Let me know how it goes.


(Unfortunately many therapists are pretty lousy. Counselling often causes retraumatization. Simple love and acceptance (and maybe prayer or meditation) often works better as therapy. Accepting that he must change himself and encouraging him to see that is all you can really do unless you force him into a conservatorship over his estate. But he will thank you for it later. Ask the trustee if he knows a lawyer who can advise you)

or am I on everyone's ignore list?

(Good thing I have not put you on ignore from the Clark threads! :-))

I also feel that 'letting him find his own way' is not the solution, especially in the case of drug use. One of my best friend's sons is heavily into drugs and looks like a homeless person he is so unkempt, but she keeps making excuses on a certain level about his 'just wanting to be free', not wanting to take part in this 'fucked up' society...... I think this is wrong of her to see his problems so philosophically.

I also see therapy as sometimes a waste of money and time or a retraumatization....(personal experience).... you have that right IMO.

I do agree that a Mom or Dad should make themselves very visible in times like this - not to tell the child what to do, but to show them that their support is there, is active, and always available.

I have 2 almost grown kids - 19 and 22. They both have not shown a smooth path in maturing, but I praise the heavens that they have not turned to drugs to solve their problems.

I'm trying to KICK them out of the house :-) to start learning how to care for themselves and take more responsibility, but I think I provided too comfy a nest and they are not really being very active about this! :D

I applaud you in your work with troubled youngsters, and it looks like you have developed good insight into some aspects of their problems.

:hi:
DemEx

I can't help it if I think Clark is a Republican. I kinda think Clinton was too, though.

The welfare reform (sic) act is KILLING people who are slipping OFF teh safety net into despair and even death.

Very costly and tragic.

But drug issues for disillusioned and sad kids like this one (or even bored ones who are comfy) requires intervention -- but a firm and gentle one.

Tough love does not work IMHO. Moving yourself might help.

Community is the best therapy.

And the Bushzis have DESTROYED our communities

so we must rebuild them