Please to remember the 5th of November

I know the 4th of November is pretty exciting in these parts, but I thought I'd give it a run for its money.





Please to remember,
The Fifth of November,
Gunpowder, treason and plot;
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.


Olde English history (and 1604 pretty much counts as olde US history, too) can be quite exciting. 399 years ago today, the Parliament Buildings ... and most of London ... almost got blown up.


http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,7777955%255E663,00.html

LONDON - Explosive new evidence <oh, har har> has revealed that if Guy Fawkes had succeeded with his gunpowder plot he would have devastated much of central London as well as blowing the Palace of Westminster sky-high.

Boffins at the University of Wales in Aberystwyth worked out the true extent of the damage Guy Fawkes would have caused if his daring deed had not been foiled on November 5, 1605.

... Dr Geraint Thomas, head of the Centre for Explosion Studies said the 2500kg of gunpowder which Guy Fawkes intended to use would be equivalent to the same amount of TNT today.

http://slashdot.org/articles/03/11/05/1228219.shtml?tid=134


http://www.innotts.co.uk/asperges/fawkes/fawkes3.html

Guy Fawkes was a fanatical Roman Catholic convert whose "idea was to explode the gunpowder during the opening of Parliament on 5th November 1605 when the King and Parliament would all be present. The innocent would suffer with the 'guilty' but this was a price to be paid!" And you think you have religious fundamentalism/fanaticism problems today.

Of course, the tale provides an opportunity for all the RC/non-RC animosities to well back up. But in fact, what it provides is an opportunity to gain a little understanding of the causes and sources of the animosities that existed in those times, and that still influence our contexts today. And of course the tale is still told from two very different angles, so a range of sources is wise if looking into it.

The tales of persecution of RCers in England and subsequently North America (e.g. the Acadians who were expelled and became Cajuns) seem fairly well known. What is less well known is the prior reversal of roles:

http://www.innotts.co.uk/asperges/fawkes/fawkes6.html#poem

(The following three passages are from readers' submissions to the site)

The Pope burnt in effigy is the Paul V, the Pope at the time of the reign of Queen Mary I (1553 - 1558). Her persecution of Protestants led to the burning of 17 Protestant martyrs at the stake in the town during her reign as well as many others in the county. In addition to the burning of the papal effigy 17 fiery crosses are carried through the town, one for each martyr as a reminder of the injustices perpetrated in an effort to suppress religious freedom.

Ah, like I wuz saying, part of you USers' history too; from that site:

Boston colonials celebrated Guy Fawkes Day prior to the Revolution. Two rival gangs from the North and South End sections would put a Pope dummy on a cart surrounded by attendant dummies dressed as devils. The gangs would take their time and gather strength and drink before eventually colliding. An open brawl would ensue with the object being the acquisition of the rival gang's Pope, like a King in a chessmatch. Samuel Adams decided to meet with the leaders of the two annual brawling groups and persuade them to put their violent energies towards political revolutionary ends instead of fighting for its own sake, while burying the hatchet. This story if from a book "From Lexington to Liberty" by Bruce Lancaster, which I've rewritten in the telling. I hope it is of some interest. I had never heard of Guy Fawkes or Guy Fawkes Day. Few Americans have. But it was part of our culture on the eve of the separation. It was also called Pope's Day over here too.

Ah, and everything old is new again; also from that site:

However, I was disappointed that you missed out any mention of the latest historical research that points to the fact that Guy Fawkes was actually set up by Sir Robert in an attempt to make make the unpopular homosexual James I more acceptable to his new subjects. This is largely the view of most national curriculum text books to a greater or lesser extent. Most school text books tend to concentrate on his Scottish background and his beliefs in the Divine Rights of Kings to help explain his unpopularity but it was his string of gay lovers which repelled most his subjects.

Anyhow, that site -- http://www.innotts.co.uk/asperges/fawkes/indexx.html -- is a cleverly packaged and entertaining introduction to the era, with audio features as well:

Guy Fawkes, born in 1570, died 1606, was caught red-handed in the Palace of Westminster itself on 4th November 1605. Everyone knows who Guy Fawkes was and what he tried to do. But WHY did Guy Fawkes and his fellow conspirators feel driven to do such a thing?

These pages try to address that. The matter necessarily touches upon both religion and politics. Both are central to understand what led to the "Gunpowder Plot."

For anyone looking for a little random knowledge today. ;)

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Thanks.

I should have mentioned my favourite book when I was a kid, one specifically about this time period. Complete with a time-travelling strong girl character, other great female characters, and a cat, in a big old English country house with its priestly hideyholes; what better way to spend a summer holiday afternoon?

A Traveller in Time, by Alison Uttley.

All 8 of Amazon's customer reviews are 5-star. But when I picked up a copy a couple of years ago, thinking of giving it to a neighbourhood girl for her birthday, I realized that reading ain't what it used to be, and this book would be a bit challenging for yer average university student (and in fact me), these days. Dialect and archaic language, and very formal prose. But the atmosphere is absolutely haunting, and the story genuine.

You can order it for 2 bucks from Amazon -- and I'm sure a library would have it, and I did order mine from a bookstore -- and I still think it would make as good a read on a winter night as it did on a summer afternoon.

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The thread didn't fit in with the GD themes, it supposed, despite the date. Hmm, I should've tried to sneak it into LBN. ;)

I've asked that it be moved to the meeting room.

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that it is my birthday. This 58 year old Marine's father was already dead (lost @ sea, US Navy)
when I showed up in '45.......... WAR: What is it good for?

Surest sign of wisdom. ;-)

That was black powder, not anything resembling trinitrotoluene. Heck, not even resembling granulated hi-test gunpowder, IIRC.

I wasn't sure what was "backwards" about my talking ... but now I do feel backward. I don't have a clue how he equated them! It did seem a little odd to me ... one would think more gunpowder to less TNT ... but you wouldn't want to be asking me.

It has been in the news this week though, the conclusion as to the kind of havoc he could have wreaked if he'd succeeded. I guess with the 400th anniversary coming up next year, academic interest is peaking.


If it was the verse that seemed like backward talking to Paragon, allow me to offer the full version; I did not write it! --

Remember, remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.
Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes
'Twas his intent
To blow up the King and the Parliament
Three score barrels of powder below
Poor old England to overthrow
By God's providence he was catched
With a dark lantern and burning match.
Holloa boys, holloa boys,
Ring the bells ring
Holloa boys, holloa boys,
Goda save the King!
Hip hip hooray
Hip hip horray.

A penny loaf to feed ol' Pope
A farthing cheese to choke him
A pint of beer to rinse it down
A faggot of sticks to burn him.
Burn him in a tub of tar
Burn him like a blazing star
Burn his body from his head
Then we'll say old Pope is dead.
Hip hip hooray
Hip hip hooray

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Guy Fawkes is the one guy that people all remember. He is burnt in effigy (along with Bush now it seems!), he has a whole night named after him and we look in horror at his signature before and after torture (yuck! squiggly!). But what about the charismatic force behind the whole enterprise? What of Robert Catesby? Who he? puzzled people ask half heartedly.

Come on, Guy Fawkes was probably a badly dressed fuse lighter, nothing more, nothing less. Just loading a whole bunch of gunpowder under parliament and then failing to light it shouldn't qualify you for immortality. What of the dashing Catesby?

Even after doubts started to rise in the plotters it was the incredibly daring and magnetic personality of 'dear Robin' that convinced the men to continue their harebrained and ultimately doomed escapade. Such was the affection that Catesby was held in, you get the idea that some of the plotters (in the end) went through with it for him rather than for the larger catholic cause.

It was a bad plan. Its failure was used and exploited by Cecil to implement even more draconian anti-catholic measures. Sometimes its best to ignore the guy sitting in a shady corner of the pub who says "Hey, I've got a good plan, lads!" no matter how charismatic he is.

Still, as the fireworks explode in the British night sky (just why do catholics celebrate tonight? its always puzzled me) I spare a thought for dear 'Robin'.

Happy Robin Catesby Night Everyone!