How Liberal are you?

I couldn't figure out how to make a poll, so I'll just leave it as this.

On a scale of 1-10, 10 being extremely liberal and 1 being just left of center.

I would rate myself at about 9 or 10, but I can't speak for others, so you'll have to take my word for it, or watch my activity on this site.

I'd probably rate myself a 1 but I'm sure others here would rate me a -5.

10 an some things and 6 on others.

...that when you have a rusty hinge, you should apply oil "ZenLefily". :D

About a 100 or thereabouts.

Why do you want to know?

If you are not a bigot, you can only be a liberal.

and maybe compare it to people when I get to know them.

On most issues I am pretty liberal. On some I'm more moderate. It just depends. I don't think everybody here is 100% liberal on all issues. Just hang out in the Foreign Affairs forum or the Gun dungeon for a little while.

I'm not left-wing I'm out-tenticle. I'm not fond of the term "liberal".

My sense of common usage is that liberal means one who "wishes" and "washes". Liberal means a little of this and a little of that. A liberal "wishes" that people will be more pleasant. A liberal "washes" the images of those he associates with who perpetuate oppression while presenting a friendly left-wing appearance. In other words, a liberal is wishy-washy.

The focus of liberals, assuming you adopt the meaning I'm perceiving as in common usage, is on achieving "fairness".

If you have oppressors and the oppressed. The right-winger promotes the oppressor. Liberals want both the oppressor and the oppressed to be more pleasant. This is "fair". So, the liberal promotes compromise in which the oppressed are only somewhat oppressed.

Or, another example, a robber steals 10 dollars. The liberal what promote giving 5 dollars back to the person who was robbed.

I do not take "fairness" as a goal. Equality of people is a fact which affects your pursuit of "justice". Equality is a constraint. The goal is not what is fair but what is right. So, that sense of determination is a strength of right-wingers.

However, it is not obvious what is right... Anyone who claims to know what is right, in an absolute sense is despotic. The impossibility of knowing what is right in an absolute sense, is another constraint. None the less. Goals and tactics of the pragmatic individual are focused on the ideal of what is right, not what is fair. That's what I say.

I am not a liberal. I am... a bootyist.

I don't know anyone who calls themself a liberal who thinks anything of the kind. - From where or what people did you formulate this 'definition'?

It is my description of some people who I think are described as liberal. Is Howard Dean liberal? He says he wants "peace" in the middle east. He does not mention an end to military aid to Israel but does mention requiring a demiliarized palestine. In other words, his idea of peace is the palestinians must stop struggling against their oppression. That is, he's a thug, but a pleasant thug that calls the thuggery "peace".

This is a forum for Democrats, and for other progressives who share common goals and support similar agendas.

I am not a defender of Dean. Even so, it's fairly obvious that your assesment is not factual observation so much as the fallacy of hastey generalisation based on flimsy presumptions which have been filtered heavily through your personal opinions.

Many, perhaps even most here who are familiar with Howard Dean would tend toward describing him less as a 'liberal' and more as a centrist.

I appreciate your sharing your relevant definition of the term liberal with me, but I'm afraid I can neither agree with your definition of the term, nor with your self-description as 'pragmatic.'

Liberal as an adjective is defined as:

a) Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

b) Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.

Otherwise the term is applied in Canada, the U.S. and the U.K to political parties which in whole or in part demonstrate those characteristics.

As for pragmatism; communication between individual members of the human race depends very much on acceptance and agreement of the meanings of words and phrases. Your definition of 'liberal,' at least, seems to be unique to yourself and your perceptions. That would not be in the best interest of communication, nor the best traditions of pragmatism.

Or, another example, a robber steals 10 dollars. The liberal what promote giving 5 dollars back to the person who was robbed.

I totally and completely disagree with your assessment.

Liberals seek JUSTICE; this can, at times be construed as FAIRNESS. But not always.

No offense, but you may want to do a little more research before you offer such opinions. Unless, of course you are prepared to back up your statement with documented evidence.

I must say you have chosen a most accurate screen name.

a liberal is wishy-washy.

My ASS!

If my use of the word liberal doesn't describe you, then I'm not attacking you. Actually, I'm not trying to start a flame war at all. It's something that I've been waiting for the opportunity to comment on though...

I'm arguing about a label. But, more importantly it's an argument against being "centrist".

Actually, if someone wants to explain how my measure of common usage is off I will find that very interesting. In fact, I'm kind of hoping someone will give me a history lesson indicating the appropriatness of the label liberal in describing people persuing freedom from tyranny.

Ideally, a "conservative" would be a person who is sceptical of propositions. In common usage though, as far as I can tell, people who say they are "a conservative" are people who advocate ignorance of propositions which challenge social norms.

Ideally, "liberal" would mean paying special attention to propositions which challenge social norms.

Both of these describe tendencies only. You could be both liberal and conservative by being both sceptical and curious.

However when labeling people rather than tendencies, they both imply an acceptance of the status-quo, by leaving out the notion of radicalism.

Both conservatives and liberals accept the status-quo. The conservative is resistant to exploring new things, the liberal is curious.

Another way to put it is that liberals and conservatives would start with the idea that common notions are true and than whether they are conservative or liberal depends on their willingness to persue new ideas. Or simpler, conservatives and liberals accept the status quo. Conservatives are unwilling to look at new ideas, and liberals are willing.

A pragmatist instead would start with rejecting (not accepting) the status quo. And then view all the ideas new and old with scepticism. With no firm ground to stand on, the pragmatist then operates based on informed choices.

Now, where I get my sense of common usage is from the media, from reading activist literature and from talking to people.

I'm going to vote for a democrat, because it's practical. But, I'm not "a democrat". Democrats do not seem to be opposed to the idea of a system in which one group of people supports themselves by living off the suffering of another group of people. They want some fixes to such a system, but they do not want to replace the system. In my experience the people who promote a system of exploitation, just one that is less extreme than the current system, instead of maintaining a goal of liberty, distinguish themselves by calling themselves liberal. I describe that as wish-washy.

That probably makes me sound like a ____ist. But, honestly I haven't figured out what a solution is. Meanwhile I just know various things that I'm not. I think I'm not a liberal.

If YOU do not wish to ascribe a label to yourself that is fine. But do not generalize, and proliferate the idea that others do not benefit from or are comforted by the association of a given label. Many users here identify proudly with the label liberal, and more power to them. Many conservatives also identify with the conservative "label" because it characterizes for them, as for a liberal or even a moderate, a lifestyle, an association, an idealogy. I will go so far as to say that such a label is not entirely accurate, as I stated ina previous post, it obviously depends on the issue at hand. However there is no question that many issues are linked in philosophy or idealogy, and the label you speak of so disparagingly is merely a broad identification used to categorize in a general manner which ideas appeal to one's sense of JUSTICE.

As for acceptance of the status quo, I disagree. Roe V. Wade is status quo, which Liberals accept and Conservatives counter.

Ditto for Affirmative Action, Social Security, and a host of other issues.

I agree with your assessment that liberals are more "open" to new ideas, however I do not see this as being wishy washy. Progressive thinking is what has challenged societies to better themselves throughout history, and for the most part societies have benefitted as a result of progressive thinkers. Liberals tend to engage in critical thinking. A skill which, unfortunatley, conservatives seem to have lost somewhere along the way.

I agree with you that Democrats do not necessarily distinguish themselves from Repubicans in the desire to change the system. But you seem to blur the definition of Democrat vs. Liberal.

Gack, duplicate. sorry... I didn't do it. honestly...

I am not a liberal. I am an amateur pragmatist...

Pragmatism will lead anyone to becoming a liberal.

9 maybe 10

I suppose I could be categorized as a card carrying, spontaneous flag combusting, bush loathing, peace loveing liberal. Actually I'm not so much pro-liberal as I am anti-plutarchy. Probably about a 5.

n/t

The more liberal you are, the more you have to realize how few people are like you. It just means you have to suck it up more at election time.

Abortion: 9 (because I don't like its use when it isn't necessary - still should be allowed, though)

Death Penalty: 10 (against it in all cases, but not always enthusiastically. I have conflicting emotions)

Taxes: 8

Separation Of Church And State: 10

Health Care: 10+ (enthusiastically for a Canada-type plan)

Guns: 8

Welfare: 8

Affirmative Action: 6

Enviornment: 10

Civil Rights: 10

Other fiscal policy: 8 (want a balanced budget and a lock box for social security)

Foreign Policy (with 10 being most peaceful): 9

I rate myself exactly the same as you ;)

Ooooh, except death penalty. My biggest issue with that is innocents being executed. I gotta go with an 8 on that - I favor an extremely high burden of proof before someone can be executed. Like, a video shows them walk into a bank, clear as day, and mow down a bunch of people, and there are many witnesses who testify who it was, and the person confesses... Cases like, say, a Westerfield, while obviously a heinous crime of which he is guilty, I do not support it for. Why? Because there are no witnesses, and no confession ... As long as the establishment of guilt comes down to having complete faith in the police and their methods? Sorry. Can't support death in that situation.

I still see it as barbaric whatever the standard of proof. It's a personal issue.

It's when we can't have assurances that the murderer will be kept out of society. A sentence of life in prison without parole satisfies me - or lower sentences based on possibility of rehabilitation and the circumstances involved.

Again, cool that we're so similar! :hi:

At least according to Pat Robertson I am.

But seriously, I'm a 10.

because I see what some other people are doing lol I am gonna give myself an infinity boo yah.

heh...

Seriously, i'd consider myself an 8.5 or 9

:shrug:

I believe in a woman's right to choose

I think universal healthcare should be a right enjoyed by all Americans

I support labor unions

I think people should keep their religious beliefs to themselves

Drugs should be legalized, regulated, and taxed like alcohol and tobacco

The more you make, the more you should pay in taxes and not just as a percentage of your pay

I think SUV's are, for the most part, stupid

So what if Clinton got a BJ in the oval office. At least I had a job!

Iraq was nothing more than a distraction from our economic woes (Wag the Dog!)

I would say I'm about a 6 or 7 on the liberalness scale. What do you think?

Compared with the lot of Americans, I'd say I'd be a 10; being in an extreme minority in the belief of all you mentioned (most people only support a few but not all of the points mentioned). But on DUer, I'm probably only a 5 or 6 :)

Supremely liberal on almost every issue.

so ha

In that case, 10, with no reservations.

of judging yourself millions above the scale...that's not very liberal! hehe :)

I'm for universal health care.

I'm very much for a living wage/stipend. I think even in a "free market" everyone should have their basic needs met and get a shot. Along with health care, it's basic human rights to allow for life, liberty and the pursuit of of happiness.

I'm for taxing the living hell out the rich to do it.

I think corporations should be very very very tightly regulated (like with an iron boot), while being kept as far away from governmental affairs as possible.

Going along with the above, I think we should scrap the whole electoral system and start over, starting with the bipartisan system campaign financing, and the electoral collage.

I support a woman's right to choose, even I'm not necessarily always comfortable with idea of abortion. If I get a girl pregnant, who am I to tell her she has to have the kid?

I'm not a democrat, I'm "anti-repubican," because I'm disgusted with what most of that party is doing to our country. Come to think of it I'm pretty disgusted with the spineless dems too.

I'm against the death penalty except in the very most EXTREME cases, i.e. individuals whose crimes are a proven threat to society. I suppose that would mean Bin Laden (if they ever catch him) or someone guilty of high treason. The way it is being used now I think is barbaric, and doesn't solve anything.

Basically I'm for the things that allow all people to live in freedom and happiness in functioning society where the social contract applies. I recognize that there can be no utopian society, but we can certainly do better than we are now. That does not include the god-given right to own guns, SUV's, or go around doing whatever you please under the guise of freedom regardless of consequence. With freedom comes responsibility.


Dunno what that all makes me and don't really care. It just ticks me off that being liberal or having leftist views is somehow considered a bad thing in this country.

I have one moderate opinion, and I'm a radical. but I'm not a revolutionary which is what I'd say a 9 or 10 are. IOW farther left than most but not all the way out

Anti-Flag, one of my favorite.

At least, I'm not comfortable wit that label. "Progressive" or "leftist" or even "socialist", but not liberal.

I am conservative on several issues but I don't see any reason to go into details here.