Look dammit -- I haven't seen Matrix Revolutions yet

so stop with the spoilers already!!!!!!!

You can love it or hate it, but don't spoil it for the rest of us.

OR I'LL HAVE SKITTLES KICK YOUR ASSES!!! :D

No spoilers please. :evilgrin:

:D

I guess I'm just gonna have to get an asswhuppin' then.

Guess what - TRINITY DIES!!!!!

MWAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAAHA

on edit - I'm soooo eeeeeeevil.

}(

I am the most evil, of all the Evil DUers.

:)

Her death-scene is so melodramatic and drawn out you're practically begging for her to just shut up and die already!

Now that's evil.

People actually started laughing hysterically when she finally croaked.

Just so you understand the end fight. :evilgrin:

Seriously. He just blows up. No explanation is given.

Swear-to-god-hope-to-die-stick-a-needle-in-my-eye.

And you don't understand what happened? Face it dude, you just didn't get it.

And no, I don't get it. I totally don't get it.

Neo lets Smith absorb him, then he explodes? WTF???

Seriously...explain to me why he blew up?

Which had plugged Neo into the Matrix, was able to get ahold of Smith's program and reverse it.

Essentially, he deleted Smith.

Neo is a program. There are no humans. They all died in the first war. The programs need purpose to continue to function. The archetect and the oracle are perhaps the only programs that know there are no humans. The matrix is a place where they keep programs that the create to believe they are humans from which the other programs can derive purpose. The archetect is a program that was designed to initially to preserve life. With the destruction of the humans he turned his efforts to the programs and created the matrix to keep them functioning. There was an anamoly that he could not eradicate that would cause the system to become aware of its own nature and the programs would wake to the fact that they were programs. The archetect could not resolve the issue so they created a program that was flawed in their eyes. The oracle is unique in that she seeks to unbalance the system. This counters the archetects flaw but it is unknown to them how it will end up. For this reason the archetect opposes the oracle. The oracle created Zion as a trap for the programs awaking to their true nature. They are extracted and given a new illusion that the matrix is a battery and they must find other humans to free. In effect they become a self checking system for the matrix. Removing those that are potentially awaking to their true nature. However even this system fails over time and the anamoly as expressed in the Neo's awakes to the fact that he is a program thus colapsing the system once again. The oracles solution is to use the reiteritive cycle to force Neo into a configuration which is beyond the current modus of the rest of the programs. To enable Neo to develop his own internal purpose. For this reason Neo is never made aware of his purpose. Morpheus and Trinity as well as all the other Human/Programs have their own purposes. But Neo is blank. He is raised with an emphasis for a love of life and an experience of love itself. His interaction with Smith causes Smith to lose his purpose. He becomes a mirror image of Neo. He has already shown that he hates the cycle that the matrix has become and wishes it to end. He is destruction to Neo's life. Ying and Yang. Because they are seperated they are out of balance. It is Neo's understanding of their natures in the end that enables him to allow Smith to absorb him and return the balance to them. This destroys Smiths newly found purpose as Neo's love of life is stronger than Smith's hate as Neo understands where Smith does not. Thus Smith loses his hold on all the forms and programs he has absorbed and they are able to return to their original selves. Neo's coding is returned to the source thus enabling the programs to recieve his ability to find his own purpose, to have choice. There are programs that this will not effect immediately or are not ready for this information who cling to the matrix (whether as a human/program or a program needing humans for purpose) thus the matrix is maintained. Those that are ready for release are freed. Due to the machine worlds necessity of humans for purpose the truth that there are no humans cannot be made known thus the secondary matrix that contains Zion and the rest of the "real" world is maintained.

1) Was this in some official comic-book or video game that I haven't seen yet...or is all this just your hypothesis?

2) Either way, why would the machines bother to keep the matrix alive?

3) Have you ever heard of writing concepts called: "paragraphs" and "editing".

In any case, thanks for putting so much work into explaining this to me.

Well mine and my GF (she loves the series too).

2) The matrix is necissary because without it to provide an illusion of humans the programs lose their core purpose. They have not derived a way to find purpose on their own (until Neo). Thus the archetect fullfills his purpose of preserving life as best he can by preserving the world for the machines.

3) Its a style. Not the best but it seemed to convey the moment. :evilgrin:

I might agree with you, BUT...a lot of people in the Matrix didn't become unplugged after realizing their true fake nature. They were rescued by Neo.

Also, at the end the Oracle asks the Architect if 'The Others' would be freed. If they were just programs, what would it matter if they were or not?

Remember, the bulk of the machines are dependent on the humans. Not as batteries and the matrix would suggest but rather as the ultimate source of their purpose. Thus even though they are freeing the "humans" from the matrix they have not freed them from the illusion that they are humans.

The name is Revolutions. It is not the end of the conflict but simply a change in the cycle. The cycle continues but it has changed. Think of the Myth of Sysophous (sp). Doomed to roll a rock up a hill for eternity. It would seem to be an eternity of endless toil. Yet during his climb back down the hill he is freed. The Revolution here is that they found the way to change the cycle so that there was a greated period of freedom and a decrease in the toil.

Think about the fact that Smith was able to leap into a human in the "real" world. If the programs new they could do this what need would they have had for the matrix as a battery. They could simply hook up the humans and have a program enter their mind and keep them docile. The battery scheme is an illusion to give the awakened humans a new purpose and to complete the illusion for the machines.

so the machines are unaware of the illusion, too?

if everything is a program who maintains it? Where is the IT department? Who replaces fried circuits? What perpettually renewable source powers this eternal computer program?

neo is NOT a program. he is just the latest in a string of fail-safe anomalies that the matrix has promoted in order to give the humans within 'choice'! zion is a real, live flesh and blood place, it just happens to be quite a bit older than we (and the characters) have been led to believe. and to what happens in the ending, here is a snippet of a review i wrote shortly after watching the film:

"deus does NOT unplug neo! neo transcends once smith absorbs him, fulfilling his ultimate purpose as a link between man and machine; a deity that both races can revere and identify with. hence the reverence neo's now hollow shell is shown by the machines as the carry his body off.

in all 'death and rebirth' mythology, there is a sacrifice of the flesh so something new and wholly unpredictable can emerge. in this case, neo's 'second death' allows him to attain a bodiless form of pure consciousness and power within the matrix; too powerful for the collectivity of the smith program to be able to overcome.

the w brothers are mainly drawing from a wealth of sources such as 'snow crash', 'neuromancer', 'blood music' plus a healthy dose of the kaballah...

peace

Where the machines carried him off was just because Neo was wiped out from that whole Smith thing.

I thought they were delivering him back to Zion.

Of course, what happens to Neo is never fully explained in the movie...which is why I think it won't be too long before the Matrix 4: The Search For More Cash, comes out.

:)

The story certainly draws upon the rebirth symbology but there is ample evidence to suggest that there are no humans and that all individuals that believe they are humans are in fact programs.

Consider Trinity. She practically spells out her purpose in her final scene. It is at this moment after she explains her feelings for Neo that she simply stops. She has no regrets nor does she cling to her life. She has fullfilled her purpose and gladdly passes on as she has not purpose of her own devise.

Consider further that when they all assailing the Machine City Neo realises that they can gain access by going over the defenses. This like the notion of using humans as batteries seems simplistic to us and an odd solution. Yet trinity upon seeing the sky is amazed. The new view percieved is breath taking to her. Are we to assume that she has never seen the sky within the matrix? Of course not. What she is really reacting to is seeing the world in a new way. Consider the story of Flatland oft used in discussing physics and dimensions. A square going about its business in flatland is suddenly shocked when he is bumped off his plane of existance by a passing sphere. From his new vantage point he sees the world in a new way that he has no way of explaining to his fellow 2 dimensional beings. Yet it gives him new insite to the world around him.

In the battle the machines are constrained to thinking in their fixed ways. Neo has advanced beyond them and can see other ways. He takes Trinity on his journey and briefly enables her to see something of the world as he now sees it.

Consider further the parallels between Neo, Trinity, the Merovingian, and Persephony. The Merovingian was likely an early attempt on the part of the Archetect to create a being similar to Neo. He created his companion Persephony in a similar roll to Trinity. However due to his inability to think beyond his choices they were limited and unable to escape the reiteration. This is why Persephony draws the comparisons between Neo and Merovingian as she does. She was inadequate and could only approaximate the love that Trinity was able to engender. Thus as Merovingian failed so did Persephony's purpose. Though it did not pass entirely it was left a empty shell making her the emotional vampire she became.

Consider further that each person within the matrix goes about life with an asigned purpose. Once they begin to wake their purpose becomes falsified thus leading to the system failure. The Oracles Zion works as a second defining purpose. However each person passes through the Oracle before they are fully part of Zion and it is here she prophesizes their purpose. For everyone else she tells them exactly what their purpose is. She tells Morpheus he is going to find the One. She tells Trinity she will love the One. But to Neo she does not give a purpose. For he is who she has been waiting for. His true purpose is to find his own purpose. In order to effect a purpose that is productive the Oracle makes sure that he is guided by love and appreciation of life. Thus when the iteration finally results if a version able to determine its own path he chooses life over death. Neo=the One=1=binary on Smith=Death=Null=0=binary off.

the machines could have thrown Neo's body out like trash and said,"oh, we'll kill the humans anyway!" instead, they carry it off to..I don;t know, a proper tomb or...his body is just a shell now. So perhaps Neo was a "programmed" human whose purpose was to bring balance back to the machines and humans, except he had to learn it as he went along.

By helping delete Smith, Neo showed that man and machine coul co exist and not destro one another. of course, there are billions of people who are still in The Matrix, who never realized what was happening, so you can't just say,'oh look, you're free now" Is Zion big enough to take back all the humans? I think they'll have alot of cleaning up to do down there....

stop blabbing!!!!!!

c'mon assholes! THIS THREAD IS WORTHY OF BEING THREADJACKED!!!

now, who like Pizza?

they're slacking off on ya, Mat :hi:

they better heed or i shall be FORCED TO PHOTOSHOP AGAIN x(

let's see you merge David with Neo :P

I'm here...:bounce:

Pizza you say? :9

And not in the photoshop way, either! :D

:D

:D

now, WHERE is asshole #2????

*tapping foot*

He couldn't get a job that lets him play. Bwahahaha! :P

something like Zomby GOPisCatCOM or somesuch

CatWomam must remain our eternal foil! We must have her threads to hijack every day!!!!!

The TRIAD must remain unbroken!!!

Blasphemer!!

So it's Catwoman against MatZomisEVIL? GOPisMATwoof?

pizza :P

Even on pizza!!! :P

It is my turn to be the working stiff of the TRIAD!! x(

I thought it was entertaining but a little too cultishly messianistic in regards to the hero. Matrix 4 within 3 years?