Attention freeper contractors....you're not redoing my bathroom!

So it looks like reprehensor and I will finally be able to have our master bath remodeled the way we've been wanting to do since we moved in.

Right now we have small square cocoa brown tiles all over: the vanity area, the shower, and around the jacuzzi tub. We want to rip it all out (there's a small leak near the shower that we want fixed too), rip out the carpet, and rip out the cheesy floor vinyl in the lavatory that's peeling up.

I did a search for tile work contractors online, filled out the form for what we needed, and got a call from a local guy; I guess he works out of his home. He didn't seem too sharp initially, then had to change our meeting on Saturday to come out tonight with very little notice.

When he drove up, we heard the engine and I looked out. There was rebel flag plastered all over his back window. So of course, my reaction is: :mad:.

We have a sticker on our front door indicating our Democratic tendencies, and he looked somewhat uncomfortable upon entering. Especially when he saw our shetland pony of a dog greeting him.

After checking out the entire area, he scribbled up an estimate, presented it proudly, and looked at us expectantly. When we asked if we could keep it, he looked flustered, then said he'd need to re-write it, which took another 10-15 minutes. :eyes: Well, without one, what were we supposed to look at to compare, huh?

Needless to say, we'll be shopping around for a different tile person.
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when people come to give an estimate, i go look at their truck while my husb is showing them the job. i sneak and do this since my husb is a bushbot.


I've already asked my friend, whose husb is a contractor, about adding a room onto our house. they are both true liberals and she assured me that any subcontractors are also blues.



i have a dove of peace wreath on my porch and an 'evolve' sticker on the car so i should watch their reactions when they see those.

just curious.

Kind of a localized "buyblue.org."

I want to replace my a/c-heating unit at some point, and I want to give my money to good people. :)

Since we're out in 85% Bush-land.

My mom has a good AC company down there that she's been using for years. LEt me know if you want their number.

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Jobycom has a guy, too, he's a Republican, but honest. I'd like to get at least a few estimates and a good financing deal, because lord knows I don't have $3000 cash. :eyes:

back in the 80s, and met these guys through some of the plumbers, I believe.

So she's been using em for awhile. I'll give her a ring and get the number.

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:yourock:

I just come right out and am honest with people we hire for home repairs and stuff. I just say we're very proud Americans and want to be sure we support businesses which support the ideals of America or something like that, and just ask what political leaning they'd say they subscribe to. It may be a little crass, but I would rather know before giving my hard earned money to a Repuke who will turn around and give it to the RNC or something. Most people will be honest back (at least, they have for me) ;)

not only were they anti-war and anti-blivet supporters, but they did a good job and bid the lowest on several jobs we got quotes on. In retrospect, they could have been pulling my chain, but didn't seem so at the time.

We ask, point blank, what people's political affiliations are before hiring them. We built a $40,000 barn for our horses and you'd better believe we asked the contractor for his political leanings before signing the paperwork. Some may think it's rude or impolite to ask, but I don't - not in these times, anyway.

If they have a Christian Business Directory, why can't we have a Progressive Business Directory?

There's three businesses in my area which made no secret of the fact that they are BIG * supporters. I sent them a little postcard I bought saying "You have lost my business" and I told them exactly why. Another is a local feed store we got all our horse feed and horse stuff from. I walked in there one day and quickly realized they were actually pumping Rush Lardbaugh throughout the store. I asked to speak to the manager/owner and told them I wanted to cancel my order for $200 worth of horse stuff and wouldn't be returning - I don't listen to hate radio and don't think a business is appropriate in forcing their customers to listen to it, either. That jackoff is missing out on about $400 a month from us.

The Repukes do this kind of thing all the time, so we have every right to also. Anytime I have a big job or a business wants my loyalty, I want to know their political leanings. Good for you for doing the same :)

Glad to see you're putting your money where your mouth is!

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If he can't show up for a meeting and then seems shady about his estimate?

Do you have a licensing board in your state? Check the license of any contractor you hire. Try to see if you can get a word-of-mouth referral, especially since this is an essential, daily use area.

Also, see if you can add a penalty clause if the completion date is not met.

I asked him to bring references.

Well he did, but I thought he might have letters recommending him or something. He just had the names and phone numbers of people.

It just seemed very uncomfortable to me. Our next door neighbor is a plumber, and an awesome guy. I'm going to see if he can recommend someone, so they have to work with those guys on joint jobs and things.

Thanks for the tips!
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There are three basic kinds of shingles: three-tab shingles, architectural shingles and ridge shingles.

Three-tab shingles are what you're accustomed to--a strip of shingle two feet long with two notches cut in it.

An architectural shingle is two shingles stuck together. The top one has shapes cut out of it. This does two things for you: gives you a nice three-dimensional effect, and adds to the weight of the roof for better durability.

A ridge shingle is used along the ridge. You install architectural shingles over the whole roof, cut a slot along the ridgeline, cover the slot with ridge vent and cover the ridge vent with ridge shingles. (Owens-Corning calls these "hip and ridge" shingles.)

The ridge shingle is a very thick shingle, very durable and also expensive.

The freeper roofers in this area LOVE to quote roofs based on using ridge shingles, then use 20-year three-tab shingles on the ridge when they do the job. It's not a massive amount of money compared to the whole rest of the roof, but not only is it the principle of the thing, three-tab shingles don't hold up as well as ridge shingles do. And besides, come on! You're cutting a fucking HOLE in someone's brand-new roof; why are you covering it with the cheapest shingle known to man?

To protect yourself, evilDUers, when someone comes to bid a roof for you, always ask "are you going to use ridge cap shingles on my roof?" This is an especial concern if you're getting a color like GAF's Weathered Wood or Heather for the deck shingles--these colors are NOT available in three-tab shingles! If the guy kinda looks up or hems/haws around, find a different roofer.

Also, go out there and look at the materials they're going to use. GAF's ridge shingle is called Timbertex. O-C's is called "Hip and Ridge" and it comes in a box; they're not wrapped up like other shingles are. I'm not sure what Certainteed or Tamko call their ridge shingles, but they'll say "hip and ridge" or "ridge" on the package. If you see a massive number of GAF "Sentinel" or "Royal Sovereign" shingles, or Owens-Corning "Classic" or "Supreme" shingles, start asking questions. A good architectural roof always has one strip of three-tab shingles on the first course, but if the truck pulls up with thirty bundles of cheap-ass shingles for a 1900-square-foot roof, start suspecting the worst.

And, most important, if your entire deck is shingled and some guy starts climbing the ladder with a bundle of GAF Sentinel shingles on his shoulder, get his ass down NOW!

Coincidentally, we are even more ready to have our roof replaced, so this information will be invaluable over the next month or so.

I always wondered if there were tricks to see how they're doing. Good to know someone has some tips!

Let me just say, you RULE!
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ask about such mundane things as decking, felt, flashing and drip edge. Also familiarize yourself with the concept of the Square.

On decking: I prefer they replace it all. They'll want to replace only the pieces that are bad, but consider: if your house is 40 years old, every piece of decking up there is probably 40 years old. It's best to rip all of it off at once, replace it all with plywood (no fucking OSB, please, I hate that shit with a passion because it's glued-together wood chips) that's got sheathing clips between the sheets, and be done with it.

On felt: architectural shingles need 30-pound felt under them. Three-tab shingles are fine with 15-pound felt, but the 30-pound gives the architectural shingle a much nicer place to lay.

On flashing and drip edge: Drip edge is made to channel water into gutters. It has a little raised lip. Roof edge is made to protect the edge of the sheathing across the bottom edge of the roof. It looks like a piece of angle iron. If you put drip edge where roof edge goes, water will pool there and rot the edge of your sheathing. I probably run into three professional roofers a week who either don't know or didn't know until they ran into me that drip edge at the bottom of the roof is bad.

The other flashing I know you'll need is the Boot. These go around your chimneys, vent pipes and other plumbing sticking out of your roof. These come in galvanized steel and hard plastic. Ask your roofer which he likes and get those; both of them are reliable.

You might need step flashing, valley roll, all sorts of other things that I can't name without seeing the roof system. But whatever you do, don't reuse your old flashing. New roofs with old flashing look like you got cheap on us.

There is also a "leak protector." Everyone makes this but GAF calls theirs WeatherWatch, so we'll use that term. It's kind of a rubberized border. You put it on top of the felt along every edge of the roof, in all the valleys you have, and centered on the ridge. This keeps water from seeping in along the edges. Whether I'd use this depends on how much rain the area got. In Seattle, most definitely I'd use this...actually, in Seattle they recommend LeatherDeck, which is the west-coast version of WeatherWatch. In Arizona, save your money.

On ridge vent: There are three kinds. One is made of metal and stands alone--you don't (in fact, I think you can't) put shingles on it. Some people use it on homes, but it's kinda ugly. On sheds it's great. One is a rigid plastic, the other looks like rolled-up foot-wide Scotchbrite scouring pad, and both of them need shingles installed over them. Either one works, but before you sign a contract with a roofer make sure he'll run this the entire length of the roof. Some guys only run this the length of the slot. That works, but aesthetically it's not so good: ridge vent is about an inch thick. The slot is in the middle of the roof. If you've got 50 feet of roof and 40 feet of slot covered in ridge vent, you'll have an inch-high step five feet from each end of the roof. If you run ridge vent all the way down the roof, you'll have a nice straight line across the roof. It just looks a lot better. The best ridge vent to use is the one your roofer likes. They work equally well and they're priced about the same, but guys get attached to one kind and don't like to install the other. Brand here is pretty much immaterial: so long as all of the ridge vent on your roof is the same brand, it doesn't matter what brand you get because they're all reliable.

Now for the concept of the Square. It is a construction term meaning 100 square feet. You'll use it when talking about felt (a roll of 15-pound felt covers 4 square, a roll of 30-pound felt covers 2 square), shingles and maybe roof decking. You won't use it when talking about ridge shingles--those come in packages that cover 20 linear feet of ridge. I mention this because if you have a 1900-square-foot house with a moderately-sloped roof and the guy says you need 70 square of shingles, you know he's trying to rip you off. I don't care if you live in the House of the Seven Gables, you cannot fit 7000 square feet of roofing on a 1900-square-foot house! On the other hand, if he comes up with an estimate for 25 square, I don't think he's trying to cheat you. A 1900sf house has more than 1900sf of roof--part of it hangs over the sides of the house, part is taken up by the slope, if you're using three-tab shingles part of this is going to be starter strip and ridge cap. And if you have an attached garage...you get the idea.

How do squares translate to bundles? Several bundles comprise a square because shingles are heavy and have to be carried up ladders. In the GAF line, Sentinel and Royal Sovereign three-tab and Timberline 30 are three bundles per square, Timberline 40 and Timberline Ultra are four per square, and the Premium Designer shingles are five to seven per square. I tell you this so that when the shingles are delivered--trust me, you do NOT want to drive to Home Depot and pick these up in your pickup! Yeah, it's cheaper to do it that way...but when you get 'em home, you have to unload these heavy-ass 100 lb/bundle shingles--and you start counting them, you won't get to 72 bundles of Timberline Ultras, notice that there's another whole skid of shingles sitting there for your 2500sf roof, and think "why am I getting too many shingles?"

Of course, there's the most important test: Walk behind the roofer's truck. If there's a Bush sticker or fifteen Jesus fish there, find someone else.

...I can safely say that calling all of them "freepers" is a misnomer. I believe most freepers are unemployed, small business owners who sit behind a counter or a desk all day, or college students. People that really work 12-hour days don't have time to post to Internet message boards, no matter what their politics might be.

Most of the blue collar guys I've known could care less about politics, except when it comes to guns and taxes. They're more libertarian than anything. Some fly the confederate flag to represent their racism; some fly it because they love their state or county and think that the flag represents them, not slaveowners or the KKK. The ones that are religious are usually sincere and found religion to make up for some past misdeeds.

They ultimately care about making enough money to pay their child support and still drink beer and possibly go to a "titty bar" on payday. If politics come up, it usually centers around some strange conspiracy that someone read in an e-mail. But the ones that vote usually claim they make up their minds at the last minute based on some rumor they've heard about one of the candidates - which is why I believe the Swift Liars were so effective last year and why other Rovian BS has worked as well as it has. :mad:

They're either honest to a fault or dishonest as hell. Few fall in the middle. But all of them react the same way that mechanics do to arrogance or disrespect - they will proceed to rip you off and inconvenience you to the fullest extent they possibly can. So treat all of them with respect, even if you have to ask them to leave or get into a dispute over a bill.

My two cents, anyway.

I can handle red folks working on my house. We had a very good obviously red electrician replace our main box in the garage a year or so ago, and he did a good job.

But nobody with a Confederate flag anywhere on them is working on my house. It may mean something completely benign to him, but not to me. And I'm the one that counts in this scenario, since I'm holding the checkbook.

If he sees his business drop off, perhaps he should reconsider that advertising tool on his truck.

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...I would have serious reservations about it too.

All I am suggesting is that whatever you do, be respectful to the guy, even if you don't think he's worthy of respect.

Local gay owned or gay friendly businesses and contractors. As you can probably guess, most of them tend to be pretty liberal minded. ;-)

I am going to tell you, it is a real problem finding an all around blue construction company. I'm a dem but finding employees with the same politics I have is virtually impossible (at least where I'm at). The National Homebuilder's Ass. is repug dominated, most workers either have no clue what's going on or watch fox news. Most of my subs are repug, I would say of all the employees/subs I've had, maybe 10% were dems. Good luck with your search.