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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:35 AM
Original message
Did anyone catch Primetime last night on ABC?
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iconoclastic cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nope. We went out.
Was it good?
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It was and I was wondering what people thought
of the transexual playing on the LPGA. Say a man becomes a woman, does it give her an unfair advantage in sports. In golf, the LPGA (USA) is the only one who won't allow it saying it gives an unfair advantage!
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Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Anybody remember Transsexual tennis player Renee Richards ?
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. She was on there and she was actually an advocate
against it. She said she does believe it gives an unfair advantage. She used Tiger Woods as an example. Saying if he had a sex change, he would still be a much more powerful golfer.
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Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Thanks, I didnt see the show

but it's natural that she would be on it
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. She is 70 now. And she is a doctor!
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Spinzonner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. My recollection is that he (Richard Raskin) was an opthamologist

before the reassignment so its not surprising she stayed one.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I think all sports should go "coed"
Why they still separate the sport leagues by gender is beyond me.
I didn't see the show last night though.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. It was interesting. All of the women they
interviewed on the LPGA believe this woman should be allowed to be on the tour. Although, some say her scores aren't really up to par (pardon the pun)!
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. I don't think it would give an unfair advantage
Read "She's Not Here," a fascinating look at a man's journey to becoming a woman. As soon as the testosterone level falls sharply, so does the strength and muscle-building abilities. VERY interesting read.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I think that is clinically accurate as well.
I did some free lance work about 5 years ago for a company that was marketing the testosterone replacement gel. I had to read up quite a bit on the disease which treated it, etc., It was very interesting because prior to reading this, I had assumed that the testosterone levels in a male to female transgender would have created muscles that were impervious to wasting, but that is not true at all. Apparently as testosterone levels decrease, especially in men who have testosterone level deficiencies, the muscles actually start to atrophy.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Interesting for sure!
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. So you would be for it? I
think I'd be okay with it. B/c really what place would they have on a man's team?
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. I saw it.
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 08:46 AM by SheepyMcSheepster
and if you are wondering what my feelings on the LPGA USA not letting her play. i tend to agree with their decision. maybe she may not have an unfair advantage but someone in the future may, it would kind of screw everything up.

personally, i don't give a flying rip about golf or any atheletic competition, it seems like the easiest most practical way to handle the problem would just be to have a golf organisation for everyone; male, female, transgendered etc.....
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I was iffy on the decision. I certainly
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 08:49 AM by Shell Beau
can see why they may think she would have an unfair advantage, but the LPGA was the only one who doesn't allow it. And the golfers didn't seem to mind. But then again, I see your point and how would we really ever know if they have an unfair advantage or not!

On edit, how screwy was that damn religious town? That was just scary to me.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. oh yeah, colorado city was crazy
and that one lady who kept comming up to them screaming and cussing.
those people are seriously on another plane. royally screwed up. they have been completely indoctrinated since birth. it is their reality. i am glad some are able to actually break free from the control. i don't understand why it is allowed to go on. it's like slavery.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I know. Surely something can be done about this.
I read an article in People that said they kick out younge boys for silly things (like drinking or kissing a girl). They have no where to turn. No education. They are ripped from their family and become homeless. Their mothers slam the doors in their faces. They often end up in rehab for drugs and alcohol. How can that be legal? To kick out a 13 year old. The real reason the boys say is that they are competition for the older men for the young girls. It is sick really. But I think it could also be a blessing in disguise.
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. She addresses that on her website, the issue of unfair advantage...
(P.S. I agree with you: there SHOULD be some co-ed leagues in all sorts of sports, where nothing but the score matters, or how far you can hit or throw, how fast you can run, etc. :hi:)

... The main reason for the difference in strength between men and women is that men have the 'male' hormone testosterone. Men have much higher levels than women and it's what enables them to build up much larger amounts of muscle mass and strength. Without testosterone, increased muscle mass becomes difficult (if not impossible?) and even decreases.

Through the usual course of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) for women being treated for transsexualism, basically, our level of estrogen (female hormone) is increased and our production of testosterone is reduced. These hormones are responsible for significant changes to our mental, emotional and physical state. Although the mental and emotional changes affect the way we approach daily tasks (and possibly sport), I will focus on the physical as this is the main issue of contention.

Speaking from my own experience, when I started HRT my doctor told me that I would notice emotional changes as well as a loss in strength. This is something that didn't become evident until some time had past. What I'm saying is that it's not like we wake up one morning feeling suddenly weaker. The changes our bodies go through can be likened to that of going through puberty. As an example, for me it meant that, after time, I wasn't able to lift things I was once able to and with my golf, it means that I don't hit the ball as far as I used to. It's hard to say exactly what the difference is as equipment has changed so much. Clubs have been improved and balls also fly further.

My game needs only to be compared to that of the other girls to see there's no difference and more to the point, compare it with guys of the same standard .....there just is no comparison!

After we have had surgery there is nothing left in our bodies producing testosterone and drugs required to halt it's production are no longer required. Typically our levels of testosterone are lower than the average levels for women. After surgery, changes to our bodies with regard to strength are permanent and irreversible.

... One of the most preposterous suggestions I often hear is what's to stop any guy (maybe struggling to make it on the men's tour) having a sex change and then playing on the women's tour. This suggestion really goes to show the level of ignorance that does exist. We are born with physical sexual characteristics that are incongruous with our brain sex. We don't go through a sex 'change', but rather a sex 'correction' which brings our physical sex inline with our brain sex. We have a profound sense of who we are from an early age and this isn't something we 'decide' to do. In fact, I dare any man to go through a 'sex change' and I take no responsibility for the outcome.

Just think about it guys.... what you're suggesting involves years of counselling and hormone replacement therapy, living as a woman, many years and thousands of dollars (not to mention the pain) on removal of facial hair and eventual surgery. Then you live the rest of your life as a woman. Remember, you can't just have it all undone when you find out it was the wrong thing to do! This isn't a game!

On the physical side of things, because of the treatment, he will lose muscle mass and strength and his sporting abilities won't be what they once might have been. He would basically need to 're-train' the body to adjust for this change. The guys life would likely become a disaster because he is exactly that ....a man! Besides the physical changes to his body, chances are he will become an emotional wreck. So much so I doubt he would have the mental capacity, or ability, to function in society, let alone play a game of golf ...and a tournament one at that.

Link:
http://www.miannegolf.com/somefacts.html
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I also listed her site below. But
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 09:15 AM by Shell Beau
she did say last night that she had to make up for what used to be power with now more accuracy. I believe her b/c she isn't nearly as good as others. She said she was the 3rd most talked about lady golfer this past year and she can't get a sponsor. Some say it is b/c she doesn't deliver. Others say it is b/c of the transsexual issue!
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. This is her site.
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