Silly question about Brazilian Portugese

yewberry

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:16 PM
Original message

Silly question about Brazilian Portugese

I have some Brazilian buddies and haven't been able to figure out this linguistic oddity.

My first name (Rachel) is really hard for some of my friends--the initial "R" is pronounced with what in English is a "H" sound (and occasionally a "B" sound, which results in me answering to the name "Bitcha.") Okay, no big deal.

However, English words that start with an "H" sound are another thing altogether--they're pronounced with an initial "R" sound. Like rospital. (I once asked Mauro where he'd learned English, and he told me with a straight face that he'd learned a lot by watching "Re-Man: Master of the Universe.")

What gives? Any thoughts?

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GumboYaYa

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:20 PM
Response to Original message

1. I know what you are talking about.

I have some good friends who are Brazilian. The husband speaks almost perfect English, but his wife has the same lingusitic characteristics you describe.

I'm certain that we have a linguist on here who can explain this phenomena. Most of these relate to the way a person pronounces certain letters or combinations in their native tongue. Our speach patterns are learned at an early age and get hard to break as we age.

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no name no slogan

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #1

3. or a Commie Pinko Dirtbag

IIRC Brazillian Portuguese is his first language :hi:

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fudge stripe cookays

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:22 PM
Response to Original message

2. Ask Commie Pinko Dirtbag

He can definitely give you some Brazilian poop. Figuratively, of course.

FSC

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no name no slogan

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #2

4. jinx!

Hey lady how you doing? :hi:

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yewberry

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #2

5. I was actually hoping he'd reply

But I don't know him and I'm shy.

:blush:

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Commie Pinko Dirtbag

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #5

8. Come on, I don't bite...

:yoiks:...much.

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Spider Jerusalem

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:27 PM
Response to Original message

6. Wikipedia says this:

Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 04:33 PM by Spider Jerusalem

Initial /r/ and doubled 'rr' are pronounced in BP (Brazilian Portuguese) as /h/, as with syllable-final /r/.

And looking at a pronunciation chart, there's a null for the pronunciation of consonant "h", so it's a sound that doesn't occur in Brazilian Portuguese - and the shift to "r" can be explained by much the same process that leads to "r" and "l" confusion by native speakers of some Asian languages.

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Commie Pinko Dirtbag

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #6

7. That 'r' is actually pronounced in 3 different ways depending on region

The h-like way is the Carioca accent (the somewhat dominant one). The French speak it like that too. It's a bit harder than a "proper" H sound.

People from Minas Gerais and the countryside in general speak it much like English (and for that they are mocked mercilessly).

People from the far South (Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina) tend to speak it like the Spanish do (machine-gun sound).

And there's the other 'r's, that occur in places other than the ones Wikipedia says. Those are pronounced the Japanese way, like the Spanish do. (fora, meretriz, caro)

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yewberry

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #7

12. Neat.

It seems that I'm referring to the Carioca accent, but the French pronunciation seems to be placed a little further back on the tongue. 'Course, that's all just my interpretation (and I have a wicked Canadian French accent when I try to speak the langue.)

Thank you!

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yewberry

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #6

11. I didn't even think to look there

Thanks!

The tongue placement is completely different for the "R" sound...trying to say an initial "R" with the BP tongue placement does indeed result in the pronunciation that I described!

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Lydia Leftcoast

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message

9. In graduate school, I briefly had a fellow student from Brazil

whose name was Regina, pronounced "Hezheena."

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Commie Pinko Dirtbag

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Fri Jul-29-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #9

10. That soft g/j is one sound we, the Russians, and the French share.

- Leonid Brezhnev (In Brazilian papers it was spelled "Brejnev")

- J'accuse!

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