Toyota Matrix and RAV4 (or Alternatives): Help Requested

My Mazda is dying just sort of 130,000 miles. It had a full life but it's time to move on immediately. With frozen calipers and a broken part in the right front wheel, I'll be lucky to get another 100 miles out of it. So after work, I'm going to test drive some vehicles with my daughter. Over the weekend, I'll buy a new or late-model used car.

I really don't follow car models any more and have no strong prejudices except that it be a good value and mechanically reliable.

Been aiming for a 2003 model around $15-16,000 or a used 2000-2002 from $10-14,000. Because I occasionally load up on building materials or appliances at Home Depot, I had looked at a 4-door pickup, but they all seem to be $25K or more. So I fell back on either a wagon or a small fuel-efficient SUV. So what if I can't carry a refrigerator?

The Toyota Matrix and RAV4 seem to fit the bill and have good reviews. Does anyone have any experience with them? Are there any other vehicles that might be worth looking at?

http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Element

God-awful ugly but they work.

Do you have one? Is it spacious?

It is spacious, if weird: the flooring is that industrial vinyl with the raised non-slip circles molded into it. It also had a $22,000 sticker in the window, but a $18,200 year-end closeout tag on the windshield.

Would I buy one? Maybe as a second car to go out to the woods in. I have an Accord; I was at the Honda dealer to buy a throwout bearing return spring for it.

After visiting three auto parts places (including a NAPA store that didn't know throwout bearings have return springs--they all do), I decided I won't shop for Honda parts anywhere but at Honda. They at least know the parts in the car.

Fair warning: Honda is nit-picky as hell about the fluids you use in their cars. There is a Honda coolant ($10 a gallon do not add water), a Honda power steering fluid I need to buy five bottles of ($2 for 12 ounces) and a Honda brake fluid ($4 a quart). If you don't use these fluids you'll screw up your car--each has special lubricants Hondas need.

Honda engines are bullit proof. I know plenty that are driven everyday, and raced every weekend. Impeccable engineering is what makes them capable of this, not special elixirs. You can wind a Honda engine to the moon and back, and it'll ask for more. It'll do this with any kind of lubricant, just don't ask it to make torque below 6K rpm, heh heh.

My own fair warning: going to a dealer to buy anything other than what is only available from them is asking to be bent over.

BTW, I agree. The Element is weird.

And so did the clerks at the various auto parts stores in town. Went in to Advance to get a gallon of coolant. "What'cha got?" 'A Honda.' "Oooh...nothing here for you. Go to the dealer." Same story everywhere else in town. Just for giggles I went to Wal-Mart to ask the same thing. "Oh yeah, you can put any of these in your car." Written on the back of the Wal-Mart coolant: "Don't put this in a Honda." "Don't mind that," said the lady in the blue vest, "you can put that in your car." She makes $5.15 per hour in her McJob. The guy who wrote that works for the antifreeze company. Who would you listen to?

Honda's coolant is expensive, but the power steering fluid is a nickel a bottle higher than the name-brand stuff at Advance that says "don't put this in a Honda" on the back of the bottle. I have a nickel. Changing the power steering pumps--there are two--is a pain.

I wonder about the brake fluid. Supposedly Honda's brake fluid is infused with essential oils and secret lubricants, but it also says DOT 4 on the bottle. You can get that about anywhere and that bottle doesn't say "don't put this in a Honda." So I just use Castrol GT/LMA synthetic brake fluid.

Motor oil doesn't matter; Honda sells oil but they get it from Mobil, and not even the dealers use it--the local dealer uses Kendall and the one in Lumberton uses Castrol. You can put anything of the proper API service in the engine and the transmission and it will be fine. I like Mobil 1 in my transmission; I'll probably put that in the engine too. I use Mobil 1 filters; supposedly Honda filters are real good and the price is decent, but they don't sell Honda filters at Advance and they don't sell Mobil 1 at Honda.

The real reason I shop at the dealer: I needed a return spring for my throwout bearing. Went to Advance, Auto Zone and NAPA. Advance couldn't get one. Auto Zone blew me off. NAPA didn't know throwout bearings have return springs. (You can't be a parts counterman and not know throwout bearings have return springs.) Then I had to draw the guy a picture of one because he was thinking "coil spring." Finally he admitted he had no damn idea what I wanted and sent me to the dealer. I walked in, asked for it, the guy clicked twice on his computer, pointed at the screen..."This what you want?" "Ahh...yup."

I have been looking for a new vehicle also and have been on the Toyota website a few times.

I am leaning towards the Prius, around $20,000 with 50-60 MPG.

Just trying to keep my daughter, my girlfriend, and my bank account happy at the same time.

We've had one for the last 3 years and have been very happy with it. Don't know what the new Rav4's are like, but when we were test driving cars the Forester seemed like it had a little more zip and power than the Toyota and Honda SUV's we tried.

Consumer Reports rates it very highly, as well. What I particularly liked about the Forester - and I test-drove it a full year before I bought it, I'm not an impulse buyer - was that dang near everything comes standard, so they don't nickel-and-dime you to death. Roof rack, AC, AWD, cruise control, everything I wanted was standard equipment. The only thing I added (aftermarket) was a CD player and XM radio tuner.

I recently took a long road trip in it, and it's the only car I've actually liked BETTER after a long road trip. The cruise control for the 5-speed is very sophisticated, the car is big enough to be comfortable while small enough to be practical, gets decent gas mileage (I get better mileage than their predictions), and is very peppy. Its chassis is based on the Impreza, whose WRX model is a very popular rally car, and the Forester handles much more like a rally car than a station wagon. It's a lot of fun to drive, and feels very secure, very sure-footed.

Happy to say we have one of each and I can recommend both. The RAV
is three years old; nothing has malfunctioned. I just reached 60,000
miles and had my first tune-up. My husband donated his old, old Toyota and purchased the 03 Matrix earlier this year. He loves it!!!
Both vehicles are great for city and highway driving. We've packed
suitcases and golfclubs and a dog in the RAV. The Matrix was large
enough to haul away an old armchair!

And no, I don't work for Toyota! I'm just happy to help.
Good luck!

to go with the Matrix or RAV4. Never had a Toyota, but have only heard good things about them.

Ribofunk--Definitely get in and stretch! I think the Matrix will afford a bit more room. I'm so glad someone is happy to listen to me today!!! You asked for it, you've got it!!

And I'm very pleased with it. It's a 4wd, but we weren't necessarily looking for one -- I was looking to steal a car, basically. I had a '93 MX3-GS that somebody oopsed (rear-ended the car at a stoplight, 'thought you were going to go!' and it was called totaled by his insurance company), and a little extra cash on the side, so I bought a 1999 at a 'pay here' lot. I had sufficient cash, they had an acceptable vehicle, so I got it for about a thousand under book value.

We've had it almost three months now, and I have to say I can't complain. It has lots of passenger room, and plenty of headroom (Mr. Nownow and I are both under six feet tall, but there's plenty of space over our heads), and even with 4wd (it's a 5-speed), I get about 26 mpg, in mixed driving. Oddly, it doesn't do any better on the highway than it does in town, but I guess maybe it's the 4wd.

I live in the snow belt, though -- I'm not sorry the one we found was a 4wd. It took me and two neighbors to shovel the MX3 out last winter, when the city I live in lobbed a bunch of snow and ice into my driveway and I high-centered the differential on it. The RAV won't be doing any of that.

And the RAV4 has enough zip, with the stick shift. I can't complain, and I like a little zip in my vehicles.

I heard the CR-V was nice, too, and it rates about the same with Consumer Reports, but its original list and resale price is higher than the Toyota. I didn't want to finance, so we went with the best deal we could find.

Edited header -- oops! Meant 'about three months'

It gets decent mileage and there is very little I can't fit into the back when I really need to move something.

FWD only. 28 MPG on the highway from a V6 DOHC.

Love it. It's the sports car of affordable SUV's.

But you probably don't want another Mazda. Then again, the engine is made for Ford by Cosworth. So it's not entirely a Mazda.

My ex-wife and I had two Mazdas -- an 1988 323 and a 1990 MX6. Both were comfortable, had good style and ergonomics, and were mechanically reliable. I bought an extended warranty on the 323 that was never used.

The next two cars were a 1994 626 and a 1995 MX6, which is the car that is now dying. The MX6 has needed TWO new transmissions before 80,000 miles. The 626 needed one new transmission at 50,000. The second looked like it was about to go at 60,000, and she traded it in for a VW Passat. All the components that Ford introduced seem to have had problems.

So no more Mazdas. I hope you have had better experience.

..so I opted for a 7 year - 75,000 mile bumper to bumper warrantee with free roadside, free rental and free towing with no deductable if I have it worked on at the dealer I bought it from.

I have no fear. At least not until 2010.

All the components that Ford introduced seem to have problems.

Ford is slowly killing Mazda. Later this year, when the rebadged Focus goes on sale as the Mazda 3, only the RX8 and the Miata will be real Mazda's.....and the Miata will get a Ford engine next year. Why they are killing the Protege is beyond me...and replacing it with Ford built crap, ugh!

Lemme guess, automatic transmission on the 626 and the MX6? If they both had the same size engine, they were the same engine...and same transmission. The Ford automatics they put on those cars were absolute junk. The reason I assume its an auto is because the Mazda manuals are sublime.

I, too, and going for something with more space. But I decided on the Protege5. Same great Mazda motor as the one in my Probe, so I'll know how to work it, and my performance parts will bolt right up. Had to go with the wagon as I do not want an SUV ( don't like the up in the air ride height, and whale like handling, sorry, but no SUV handles well), and I dislike the proportions of the too tall crossovers like the Matrix and their ilk.

if you don't need all the space of a mini SUV but are looking for incredible reliability and fuel economy you might want to look at a VW with the TDI motor...I have a 2000 beetle with the TDI motor and I get over 40mpg around town....above 44 if I baby it....and from the factory it comes with a 100,000 mile warranty. I've seen a few jetta wagons with the TDI package and I wish I had gone that route when I purchased my beetle. In the cold it starts in about 5 seconds, when you unlock the doors the glow system goes ahead and starts, it runs terrific, at any speed (I've run mine at about 115 mph at a local race track...and got about 43 mpg for that tank) and its been a great car. The only negative is that most oil change places do not stock the oil filter, but my local goodyear guy does and my oil changes only cost $21....and the tires are great but a little expensive. The car should qualify for low emissions status but since diesels are politically unpopular it does not...but less harmful stuff comes out the back of my diesel than comes out of most gasoline cars.

good luck

I have a TDI Golf hatchback and its so good, I'm definately not going back to gas.

and welcome to DU! :hi:

I will definitely check out the Jetta wagon, too. VW is definitely a manufacturer on my short list.

I think you'll like the Jetta TDI...I'm going to look at one at the dealer myself after replying to your post...I convinced myself...I'm going to keep the beetle and add the Jetta for trips and active stuff...and keep the beetle as my everyday car...

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

I bought a new Corolla earlier this year, my old one was a casualty in a moose accident. I tried out a Rav4 and a Matrix, and really liked them both. Ultimately I decided on the Corolla because it gets great mileage 40mpg on the highway - and I don't need an SUV or a wagon.

My late (and still lamented) Toyota had 127,000 miles on it - and never a problem. It started every morning, even last winter when we had about 2 weeks of -20 temps. Toyotas are very reliable.

I like the Hondas, but they don't have quite enough leg room. I'm 6'.

I'm 6'2" and that's an issue. I am leaning towards Toyota right now.

and a very big man overall, and he fits comfortably in my Subaru. There's even enough room in the rear seat for two full-size adults. I can carry 8' pieces of wood inside with the rear seats folded down and the rear hatch closed, and the standard roof rack is very sturdy - I've carried some very large items on the roof rack.

I'm sold on the Subaru. Besides, I got a screaming deal on mine (bought the weekly "ad" car - their loss leader for the week).

In your range and drives great...

We have a 2000 model with 65k miles on it and all we've done is change the oil. Even though it's built on a Civic platform, it's got lots of hauling room, and the back seats are comfortable for adults

Its in the category you mention and has excellent owner ratings by people who've had the things for years...

Subaru also has similarly high owner happiness levels.

I've had it for about a year and it has been an excellent car. It's perfect for my hour long commute and hauling equipment for my job. I had a Corolla before the Matrix. Hubby also drives a Corolla. I doubt I'll ever buy anything but a Toyota.

And, no, I don't work for them either! ;-)

Ugliest damned thing I have ever seen, but with a ton of room inside. Scion is a new Toyota brand and the XB uses the same engine as the Echo. Standard shift is $14,000 with air conditioning, keyless entry, power windows, cd, anti-lock brakes, and stability control. There are no options, just dress-up items installed by the dealer.