Illegal to smoke in cars w/ children inside

I just saw it here on my local news. A city here is trying to make it illegal to smoke with children in the car. :eyes:





:popcorn:

Not that I would do it anyway, but :popcorn:

And it is the end of the day too!!! :popcorn:

!

that makes people hate liberals.

hee hee hee...

I had my first athsma attack stuck in the back of a Caddilac with the windows rolled up while my mother and grandmother were smoking. Amusingly, we were on our way to grandma's chemo appointment. :eyes:

I like having the government having more and more control of what I do and where I do it.

jeebus cripes.

be bothered to control thier addicitons. The right to fresh air trumps the right to poison one's self.

But I can breath just fine and so can all my siblings. My parents both smoked and so did 3 out of four of us "kids". We are all in out 40s now and doing fine. Both parents are heading toward 70 and have no breathing problems.

I'm not saying that smoking in cars with your children in the car is a dandy idea, I say that when you let them make laws governing more and more how you choose to live your life you are opening the doors to things that is just plain wrong.

I think people who smoke in a car with children (or anyone who has no say) are incredibly selfish. I think it's a terrible idea.

What I think is a worse idea is government encroachment into every private area of citizens' lives. If they can prohibit smoking in your car, they can prohibit smoking in your own home. If they can prohibit that legal activity in your own home, they can start prohibiting other legal activities in your own home.

I would be against a ban on smoking in the home. But I don't have a problem with in the car. Cars are not extensions of our private domiciles, so I don't see the slippery slope from one to the other. I mean, they haven't banned having a beer in your home, yet you can't do that in your car. Some have also banned talking on the cell phone while driving in your car, another thing it is perfectly legal to do in your home.

Drinking and driving and cell phone use is more to protect people outside of your vehicle.

I agree. However, I do think it is arguable that smoking while driving can also affect other people, and not just those in your car.

Personally, I'm all for ticketing anyone who's doing anything while driving that could impede their ability, like reading, putting on makeup, eating, etc. I could easily see adding smoking to to that list. Lighting up, smoking, flicking ashes (especially if they fall burning into your lap) could all prove dangerous distractions. I don't see it as the privacy issue that others are making it. And, aside from the protection it might offer others outside of the car, protecting the children inside of it isn't such a bad thing, either.

That would mean taking radios out of cars. Playing with radios has been the cause of many accidents and I'm sure plenty of deaths. I don't listen to the radio much in my car but I would be willing to bet a lot of people would be very pissed off if there were laws passed that banned radios from all vehicles.

That slippery slope argument makes more sense than the one that says it will lead to banning smoking in the home.

I don't think that would happen, though. Radios aren't ever going to be banned in cars, even if smoking is. The auto industry is simply too powerful and it would never fly.

And hit my car? A zillion. I smoked two packs a day for ten years -- I was hardcore, couldn't even sit through a movie. However, three things I NEVER did: 1.) flick lit cigarettes ANYWHERE, esp. out an open car window, 2.) smoke around my niece and nephew unless we were outside, and 3.) smoke with other people in the car.

People's kids are basically captive, specially in a car -- we choose to smoke, and have a legal right to -- they don't get the choice. I see nothing wrong with this.

drinking impairs judgment and physical reaction time. Smoking does not.

The bans on cell phone use in the car are because of the distraction caused by cell phone use (and, incidentally, I do not agree with those laws either, because we already have laws on the books that deal with inattentive driving).

The proposed ban on smoking with children in the car is for health reasons. It would not ban smoking in cars altogether - only those cars with children as passengers. If the focus is on the children, then it's logical to assume that line of thinking could be extended to include home use of cigarettes in the presence of children.

:hi:

But, it still doesn't change the fact that banning an activity in a car is not an invasion of privacy. Argue against the effectiveness of the law, but it really can't be argued technically from a legal standpoint that it's an invasion of privacy. Your argument that it is a slippery slope that could lead to banning in the home is what I was contending was wrong.

ban is for. The proposed ban focuses on the presence of children, not the distraction factor. If the presence of children is the key component, then why could it not be extended at some point to include the home?

By the way, I didn't say invasion of privacy. I said I didn't like government encroachment into the private lives of its citizens.

And, as far as your second point, I guess you could say it is, but that really isn't an impediment to any laws, because it isn't invading your personal privacy any more than banning drunk driving is. When your actions directly affect another person, I think the law does have a right to step in and restrict your actions. When it is no longer just about you, personal privacy is no longer really the issue.

One could argue the law from the standpoint of its effect, as in "It does no harm to smoke in the car with your kids". But, since I personally have found that not to be true, I have no problem with the law. I think it DOES harm the kids, much more so even than smoking in the home. It's basically enclosing other people in a box filled with condensed smoke. As an adult, if another person does that, I'm free to leave the car, and never go anywhere with them again. Kids don't have that choice. Children aren't property to do with as we wish (that should be my sig line, I say it enough). I'm not necessarily saying I would fight for such a law, but I certainly wouldn't fight against it, and I think the arguments being used against this law in this thread are wrong.

A small one bedroom apartment with the windows closed or a van with the windows opened. What is worse for the child?

Smoke filled cars, window or no, always gag me to the point that I can't breath, while I have no problem with being in a home where people smoke, at least for a short time. Just as much smoke is often blown back in my face as makes it out the window. I can usually politely ask a smoker not to smoke in their car if I'm riding with them, and no one has ever had a problem with that. Most smokers I personally know to the point that I'd ride in a car with them are polite and reasonable. But, children are different. If their parents are going to smoke in the car, there is nothing they can do about it.

But that is just my personal experience, and not based on anything scientific. I still don't think that such a ban is an overly intrusive measure. It certainly isn't an invasion of anyone's privacy or freedom.

I understand what you are saying but I agree with LIW, I think it is another infringement on your personal life.

For example, if I have my 17 year old nephew in my Jeep with the top down, a law like this would prevent me from having a cigarette in my own vehicle. Even if my nephew is a smoker. I'm not saying *that* will be the law, but it is a possibility. I find that to be wrong.

Your freedoms and privacy balanced against how much your actions affect other people. I feel that if it can be argued that the negative effects are bad enough, then their projections outweigh your rights, of course. I don't think anyone would argue that restriction your right to drink and drive is too much of a personal infringement, for instance. I think the argument is how much of an affect does smoking in the car or in the home have on children. And, I do think it is arguable that there is a significant difference, and that the harmful effects in the car outweigh the rights of the smoker. But, I do understand that not everyone agrees on that point. And if one doesn't feel that there is much of an affect, or the affect is negligible, then it would certainly be a personal infringement that the government has no right to take.

Sorry, for the delay as my husband and I are right now having this very same argument and were both trying to convince each other they're wrong :P

When your actions directly affect another person, I think the law does have a right to step in and restrict your actions.

This is exactly why I think such a ban could extend to people's homes in the presence of children.

I DO NOT agree with smoking in front of children. I don't think anyone should. My disagreement isn't with the spirit of protecting children.

I don't think that the point that there is a balance between the right to an action and how much that action affects others refutes the point that the privacy expectations of the home and the car are different. There are indeed levels of expectancy for each, I won't argue that. But, you do not have the same level of expectation of privacy when you're out driving your car off your property as you do in the home. Therefore, I don't think your argument that restricting the action in one would necessarily lead to restriction in the other is entirely accurate.

Privacy-wise, what is the difference between one's home and one's car if the intent is to protect children from close exposure to cigarette smoke? I understand that a car is a smaller space, but what is the difference with the privacy expectation if the focus is on protecting children? Your own argument is that the action of the smoker affects another person, in this case a child. The action is the same, whether in the car or in the home.

turn on a fan, open a window, go outside for some non-poisoned air, etc. A child in a smoke-filled car can do none of those things.

ban children from automobiles!

:)

....smoking is not fair to young children who have developing lungs to have to deal being stuck inside a car with a smoker who won't even have the decency to roll down the window.

We sit here and are aghast because we all say we're courteous smokers who would never jeopardize a child's health by smoking in the car with on riding along as a passenger.

But as someone who grew up in rural PA and still knows folks who live there - THIS IS THE NORM. I had a friend who I begged to stop smoking in the car with her daughter but that friend's mentality was "My parents did it to me so it's ok that I do it to my daughter". Oh and this included smoking with the windows up because it was too hot out and she needed AC in the car.

Plus many young kids either can't ask for their parents to not smoke (no verbal skills because they are too young) or perhaps they are afraid to say something to their parents.

This law is long time coming and I support it 110%. Smokers who don't understand the reasoning behind this are obviously too selfish in their own disgusting habits to see that too many adults don't give 2 shits about the health of their children.

however, children can't speak for themselves. They can't advocate for themselves and I think the weakest among us need our help.

I think people who smoke in their car with children in it are incredibly selfish.

:toast:

She always says what I would like to say in a much better way. That's why she is a writer and I am a johnnie. Lol

The city that is talking about it is Parma Heights. It's a suburb of Cleveland. I saw the story on the news, but I didn't find anything online yet.

How long til they legislate our food choices.

Don't get me wrong... smoking in car with kids is bad. Shit, smoking is bad. But, I agree wholeheartedly with your post upthread, I don't want the government telling me or anyone how to live.

Unreal.

That fast food is going to kill them a lot faster than the second hand smoke will. We are still in the early part of the fast food generation. Just by watching the news these days you see more and more kids dropping dead on the football fields. I haven't seen any studies yet, but I have a pretty good idea that more and more younger people will be having heart problems as time goes on.

I say nip it in the bud and make a law against feeding your children that crap. :sarcasm:

over food choices. Corporations like monsanto are using genetically modified corn in EVERYTHING. Think corn oil, corn syrup, cereal, chips taco shells, you get my drift. The gov thinks monsanto is great and we eat what they give us and we like it just like good kids. :sarcasm: :eyes:

http://www.organicconsumers.org/

They've made two mistakes and would obviously be more likely to cause accidents :evilgrin: :popcorn:


to be serious - I agree with the law to a point. Most parents I know that smoke don't do it in their kids face's anyway. Too bad not all parents do though. BUT if they smoke in the car with their kids in it they'll smoke at home near them so I'm not completely sure how much this will help.

But my aunt did, and when I'd go over to play at their house it wasn't so bad. But, when we'd go anywhere in the car... I would choke. It was horrible. And my poor cousins were hacking and wheezing all the time.

Like you, I don't know if there's much difference between smoking around your kid in car, or in the home. If there is, then I have no problem with this law.

and I hated it. My throat burned and I would cough too.. I have no doubt smoke affects kids. So, the more I think about this the more I agree. I can only hope while at home the smoke will be less dense for the young ones.

with the windows rolled up. That could be a source of asthma today.

But making it illegal? I don't know about that...

:shrug:

Smoking is perfectly legal to do. We're not going to outlaw smoking outright because both the tobacco companies and smokers themselves wouldn't stand for it. So we ban it in public places, and in cars with kids and in workplaces. There's some sense in that - there's also some inequity.

Why not treat it as we do drinking? You can't drink in a vehicle, or on the street. You can only drink in certain places - your own home, a bar, certain outdoor venues. Think about it - it would creat a whole new entrepeneurial venture. Smoking clubs.

and reaction time. Smoking does not.

For the record, I *DO NOT* agree with smoking while children are present in the car (or anywhere in front of children). However, I can't agree with the law either.

... than to do it in the first place.

I would probably vote for it but it shouldn't have come to this in the first place.

however ~ I must agree with this law being good for the children.

Enforcing the law will be one helluva headache.

:applause:

I support this. Honestly, smoking in the same car as a child with asthma isn't too far from child abuse in my mind.

:P

That's the way it should be. It amazes me how many people would support this kind of law.

But your comment was what I was referring to.

My parents smoked in the house and the car with the windows rolled up. My brother and sister suffered from excruciating earaches and I had bronchitis all my life. I started first hand smoking at the age of 12. Couldn't stop til I was 44.

Christ. We must have smelled like fucking ashtrays as toddlers and kindergartners. How fucking cute is that? Not to mention my brother and sister screaming their heads off in pain, or me barfing up a lung every winter, spring and fall.

Then cancer a few years ago for me. SUWEET!

You know they have to make it a law that kids wear helmets when they bicycle ride, that kids must be properly restrained in the car-all for their protection. Why should the long term health of a kid who is a captive in a vehicle be any different? :shrug:

Thing is, people are fucking nuts. Some still don't make their kids wear helmets, or buckle their kids in and beat the shit out of their kids while believing it's good for them. Some assholes need to be told not to smoke in the car when they're driving their kids around. It's harmful to their health.

that sucked and was totally unnecessary. I was not allowed to eat junk food though, I must say and we all at dinner together. Except Dad always finished first and lit up-at the table, of course. x(

except for the smoking, it sounds like my family... x(

Well, I was the one who got my ass whooped all the time. I was a little shit (as you well know :) lol). I don't say it was right, but I don't feel that it did me much harm.

and I was not a little shit... but was whooped all the same, and I think it did me a great lot of harm. :hi:

My mom bruised my ass with a spoon and felt awful about it. Not as bad as me though.
My dad smacked my toddler sister on the ass expecting a diaper under the nightgown and she was bare-assed. She ended up getting swatted a lot harder than he'd intended.

Both of my close friends who have kids have not felt it necessary to smack them, and the kids are well behaved and highly motivated and don't cringe with fear (as I remember doing often) anytime they think they may have made a move that displeased the elders. Not living in fear.

I got it a few times a week. My mother liked Hot Wheel tracks because they didn't break. My father liked the belt. I don't honestly remember any bruises.

I get along great with my parents now and I think they did a great job in raising all of us.

So the adults can drink and smoke in the back seat.

I'll drink to that! :beer:

:thumbsup:

:rofl:

To make it perfect, there would have to be one of those windows between the back and front seats like in limos so the kids won't pass out from the smoke. :)

stand up on the back seat and hang out the sunroof to smoke

:P

and away from the kids. Ask Cartmans mom.

I was just wondering =

I only caught parts of the story on the news. I think they said a councilman of the city came up with it.

On the bill itself I am torn. I dont like smoking and I do get ill from it, however my one philosphy in life is that I cannot tell another person what to do.

but not when the kids are in it. I dont smoke in my house either.. well, sometimes if I'm doing laundry downstairs I will but never around the kids. Its not worth the risk. I also dont want stinky kids :)

But I have changed diapers. Ummm, I would rather smell smoking flesh than those dang diapers again..lol. :)


In all honesty, I think smoking around small children isn't a good thing. It's more about lawmakers thinking I am too stupid to not do what they think I should do.

I think my 2 mo old just lit one up.. PEEUUUU. He definately takes after his father with the way he can make a stink!

Better you than me. Have fun with that :hi:

I can send ya one... I'll even put it in a baggie so its really ripe by the time it comes to you :) :hi:

open and no child in there with me. I don't want a stink house, car or kid. I went to Reno not too long ago and i couldn't deal with the smoke or the smell inside the casinos.

When I was pregnant I went to Casino Niagara in July and boy did I stink when I came home.

house? My firend smokes in her house and when i go over there she's always, "You can smoke in here, you don't have to go outside" "thanks but i'll go outside anyhow"

I dont like to stink up my house let alone someone elses. My pets probably also thank me :)

he rolls down his window and I crack mine. I am not bothered by his smoke at all. I'm deeply suspicious about people who make all these bizarre claims about how other people's smoking affects them so terribly. What a bunch of primadonnas.

This is really about the desire to control people and smokers are easy targets.

edited to add the words "other people's"

Would you like to see me or my sister in full blown asthma attack? Would you like to see me coughing so hard it feels like my chest is coming apart? How about all those times I've gone to the hospital because I can't breath? And yes, people smoking around me makes it worse.

It could kill them.

They (usually) carry around medicine to inject in case they get stung to control there reaction. Unfortunately, there's nothing like that for when people are breathing smoke in my face.

I'll add perfume as another example. It doesn't bother me, but I know it can be bothersome to others.

i buy the scents-less stuff and don't wear perfume.

on them really bothers my allergies bad. A light spray or hint of perfume doesnt bother me.

I used to work at a manufacturing plant and this one guy stunk so bad (his cologne, not body odor) it would linger for a good 10-20 mina AFTER he left. I felt bad for the people who worked directly with him. Very nauseating not to mention bad for my allergies.

required a ventilator, and almost lost her life, I'm okay with MrG smoking in the car. My lungs are still compromised, but the smoke goes out the window. What I laugh (disbelievingly) at, is how many people who have a problem with smoking, have absolutely no problem driving around in vehicles that emit the very same carcinogens. It's sad, that we come down to these things.

Next...

RL

smoke, just as many are to perfume, cat dander, etc. It is dangerous for them, or at least very, very uncomfortable. And people with asthma should never be expose to smoke in such a closed environment -- I used to smoke, and cracking the window only does so much.

Children don't have the ability to make the decision whether or not to enter a smoke filled bar, etc., so they shouldn't have to endure a smoke filled car.

I totally agree with this.

a picture of kids strapped to the roof of a car.

sorry. serious topic, i know.... and it made me think of the "passing gas" ad on Air America* which always makes me think of that old comeback:

"mind if I smoke?"

"no. mind if I fart?"




*suggesting smokers not smoke in confined spaces around children, which is definitely smart but shouldn't be a law, imo.

Strapped to the roof. That was funny.

I guess it's a serious topic, but I am always up for humor.

With that said, I can understand why people might be for something like this, but I really think this kind of law is over the top. First they say no to smoking in your car because of the children and next it will be in your home. There are many many things that are bad for us and as long as we let them get away with it, they will find more ways to control what we do. This has nothing to do with tobacco, this has to do with personal freedoms.

It's not necessarily against the law to slap your child on the hand for sticking their hand in a fire, but it is wrong to beat them bloody.

Get rid of cars and then I would perhaps at least understand the anti smoking sentiment. But, as long as people are driving around in those carcinogens, I'm laughing at there anti smoking drivel.

And filling up "smoke free" bars.

who grew up choking on a parent's smoke in the car. :puke:

But I fear this proposed law might cross the line. I don't know.

So if anyone wants to smoke they will have to wait until they drive a few miles to the city line.

The city next to me has the no cell phone law. They were the first in the country to do that and also were the first to make seat belts the law in the country. You can drive all over Cleveland on the cell, but during the mile of highway through that city, you have to get off the phone. :crazy:

Nazi thread, but here goes--Quit making more stupid, unenforceable, restrictive, nanny state LAWS. For heaven's sake, do what you think is right for you and live & let live. Go volunteer if you want to save the world, but please quit dumping all the world's woes on smokers. Concessions have been made, be happy. All this holier than thou attitude makes me less inclined to be a courteous understanding smoker--a backlash may cometh.

Parma Heights Proposal Would Ban Smoking In Car With Kids

"A battle is brewing in Parma Heights over a proposed ban on lighting up in a car if you're driving with children, reported NewsChannel5.

Parma Heights City Councilman Rick Schwachenwald wants to make it illegal to smoke in a car with kids under 18.

Schwachenwald says if you can ban smoking in public, then why not protect people from secondhand smoke in vehicles?

The measure would actually be an amendment to an 18-year ban on smoking in public places in Parma Heights.

Police would enforce the law as a secondary offense, similar to if you're pulled over and not wearing a seat belt.

A final decision is not expected for weeks"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/wews/20051027/lo_wews/3024012





Rick Schwachenwald is a dem btw. Not that it makes any difference to me, I still think this is wrong.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Enough to go around.

As a former smoker, and a person who has asthma and another serious lung condition, I do not necessarily agree with enacting this law, but I would like to believe that it is a good idea to heighten smokers' awareness to the deleterious effects of breathing someone else's smoke.

If I am exposed now for even a few minutes, I can end up in the ER because of both the asthma and the restrictive lung disease I have (I got the restrictive lung disease from radiation for lymphoma).

"it is a good idea to heighten smokers' awareness to the deleterious effects of breathing someone else's smoke."

I respect your opinion but in the last 20 odd years we have been bombarded with the harmful effects of tobacco smoke. My niece and nephews give me the third degree whenever they see me light up and I'm sure that they aren't the only children who are like this.

Every other commercial on TV is about second hand smoke. They even go as far to tell of one person who never smoked in their life but died of mouth cancer from someone else's cigarettes.

In my opinion we have been over-saturated with "awareness".

I believe that if awareness is heightened, behavior changes. I have not seen a whole lot of change in behavior...

I am not ripping on you, I just have not encountered an overwhelming majority of smokers who happen to be courteous about it.

Recently my county enacted an indoor smoking ban, which I agree is a good thing, however, one of my big rants is about people who stand right outside the doors of places smoking. I have a disability parking permit, and have had to shoo people away from my car, who were smoking right by my car. Please people, stay away from the handicapped parking area if your are going to smoke.

Although the Marlboro Militia will surely goes bonkers over this rule.

:yoiks:

So will all good liberals.

:yoiks:

Above their own addiction.

And almost all parents I know will not smoke around their children. It was their decision because they know what it can possibly do. If you feel you need to be told by the government how to raise your children than that is fine, I just feel that I am smart enough to know what to do without their help. I am not in to government dictating all aspects of my life.

:eyes:

:eyes:

then they smoke in their house too. Kids spend alot more time at home then in the car, and just because they are not in a confined space does not mean that the smoke does not affect them. They breath that crap while they sleep, watch TV, play, etc. Children who live in a home with a smoker are more likely to develop asthma, higher risk of SIDS all kinds of things. These studies were done on children who lived in a home with a smoker. I find it more disturbing for parents to smoke in their home w/ kids 42/7 then a 20 minute car ride twice a day.

And I have known people who smoke in their cars and not in their homes.

I'm a smoker. I don't smoke in cars or houses around children. I don't even smoke in my own house or car anymore, partly to cut down and partly because I don't want everything to smell like it.

Still, I chose not to smoke around kids a long time ago. I didn't need a law to tell me it was a bad idea, because I am a responsible adult.

they smell awful...their winter coats, their hair...all from cigarette smoke....and they always have colds or runny noses and coughs.


Now I grew up with a father that chain smoked, I had asthma and it put me in the hospital about 6 times...but back in the 70's...it was not cool to tell parents to change their behavior.

My dad died in early 1980 and after he died...no more oxygen tents for me...his smoking killed him though...

and always feel so bad for the kids who come to school smelling like they just left a bar.

There aren't as many of them as there used to be, though.

my brother wouldn't suffer from chronic bronchitis today.

The smoke would sting our eyes, and we'd beg our parents to let us crack the windows; but my dad insisted that he didn't want to let the air conditioning or heat out. :(