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moof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 12:11 AM
Original message
Noam Chomsky on Charlie Rose Now.
Talking about linguistics so far.
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FDRrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yea man...
Edited on Fri Nov-21-03 12:13 AM by FDRrocks
If this wasnt on I'd be playing some Castlevania.... But I won't stop watching until Charlie has a second asshole. (My gf is taping it anyways, shes got schoolwork to do.)

edit: God Chomsky is great! Everytime someone attacks him they us ad-hominem attacks instead of attempting to conquer his 80+ catalogue of books. Don't die Noam.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I can see flaws in many of his historical
accounts. he usually tries to talk about small events that most people would know little or nothing about, so they cannot challenge his views. When he talks about historical events I know well, I have found he can be deceptive, and very biased to the point of innaccuracy.
I have by no means been able to go through his entire catalogue, but I do know that I take what he writes with a grain of salt. His opinions and biases are so strong that they color events accordingly.


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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. You can't get a thing past Noam
Boy, he held his own like no talk show guest I've ever seen.

I love Charlie Rose but I dearly wish they'd spruce up the production values a bit: clearer sound, better color and get rid of that God-awful black background.
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FDRrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. When (if) I am that old...
I'll be lucky if I don't need to where a bib all the time (note: I'm very skeptical about my longetivity (I fear death immensely)).

Taking his age in consideration... the man is truely awesome.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Charlie must be losing it--he had Robert Rubin on last night....
and he said things were being done wrong...economically.

He also said he knows current Treas. Sec. Snow, who was for fiscal discipline and he can't figure out why he's gone against his principles on this....
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cryofan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
5. I used to think Chomsky was some kind of nutter....
....but now I think he is one of the greatest geniuses of all time. What he said tonight about how the media and the political and corporate elite cooperate to shut down political discussion of issues where the populace disagree with the elite....he nailed it there. And sometimes it seems as though Rose either cannot follow him, or something.....Rose did have a good idea on trying to get him to compare the democratic involvement of different countries to America.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Good take, Cryofan.
Bullseye.

Welcome to DU.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. You have to take Chomsky
with a grain of salt. He will always say that other countries are more democratic than the US, unless they are a close ally. Hardcore stalinists that are tied to the soviet Union and comintern are reffered to as populists and reformers, at least if they are defeated. If they win and then become tyrants (which is their MO, and happens every time) Chomsky doesn't mention them anymore. He thought the Khymer Rouge was a progressive force that would liberate Cambodia in 1975. Keep that in mind when you read his stuff.
I find him biased and unreliable. his linguistics stuff is very interesting though.
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regularguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I agree that he is biased but,
"He thought the Khymer Rouge was a progressive force that would liberate Cambodia in 1975."

I admit I haven't read all of Chomsky, but the closest thing to this I can think of is that he compared the amount of news covereage on the Kmer Rouge (alot) to thge amount of news coverage in a place like East Timor (very little), to show how official enemies (Commies) get critcized much more readily than (sorta) friends (Indonesia). I'm not sayiong that he never said the KR was a "progressive" or liberating force, but I definitely have never heard of it.

Cheers!
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. During the 1970s
Edited on Fri Nov-21-03 01:32 PM by Zuni
he wrote articles claiming that no slaughter was going on in Cambodia, that it was US media propaganda etc. One was coauthored by Edward Herman and titled 'distortions at a fourth hand'.
In this article chomsky writes that one cannot trust refugee accounts!!!!!! He essentially said that Cambodian people who had escaped from the killing fields were lying!!! Can you believe that?
He also said the evacuation of Phnom Penh on April 17, 1975, the begginning of the slaughter, was nessecary to 'prevent starvation', which is exactly what happened when the KR evacuated the cities and set up communal agriculture.

After Vietnam and Cambodia began being unfriendly and having border clashes, the official Communist line changed. Chomsky then started saying, yeah The KR killed alot of people but....a) The US is far worse to Asians, Indians, Blacks etc.(the usual left wing stuff) or that b) The KR started a mass genocide, but it was the US's fault. The bombing of Cambodia made the KR do it, etc. The Cambodians are not responsible for their own actions, the evil imperialist US was responsible for them etc.
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cryofan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Fine, you found a case where he was wrong, but what about....
....What about his main themes, e.g., how CorpGovMedia(TM) propaganda is diffused throughout our culture, and how it "disappears" political issues where the CorpGovMedia elite differ with the populace? I mean, this is major stuff. His main ideas in this field go right to an indictment of the foundation of globalized American capitalism.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. <shakes some salt>
That way you don't have to keep repeating yourself:-)
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cryofan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. Here is part of an essay on Chomsky's ideas on neoliberalism
Edited on Fri Nov-21-03 12:15 PM by Skinner
This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.worldagesarchive.com/Reference_Links/Noam_Chomsky_Neoliberalism.htm.
G o o g l e's cache is the snapshot that we took of the page as we

Noam Chomsky and the Struggle Against Neoliberalism



Author: Robert W. Mcchesney

Monthly Review

Issue: April, 1999



Neoliberalism is the defining political economic paradigm of our time - it refers to the policies and processes whereby a relative handful of private interests are permitted to control as much as possible of social life in order to maximize their personal profit. Associated initially with Reagan and Thatcher, neoliberalism has for the past two decades been the dominant global political economic trend adopted by political parties of the center, much of the traditional left, and the right. These parties and the policies they enact represent the immediate interests of extremely wealthy investors and less than one thousand large corporations.



Aside from some academics and members of the business community, the term neoliberalism is largely unknown and unused by the public at large, especially in the United States. There, to the contrary, neoliberal initiatives are characterized as free market policies that encourage private enterprise and consumer choice, reward personal responsibility and entrepreneurial initiative, and undermine the dead hand of the incompetent, bureaucratic, and parasitic government, which can never do good (even when well intentioned, which it rarely is). A generation of corporate-financed public relations efforts has given these terms and ideas a near-sacred aura. As a result, these phrases and the claims they imply rarely require empirical defense, and are invoked to rationalize anything from lowering taxes on the wealthy and scrapping environmental regulations to dismantling public education and social welfare programs. Indeed, any activity that might interfere with corporate domination of society is automatically suspect because it would impede the workings of the free market, which is advanced as the only rational, fair, and democratic allocator of goods and services. At their most eloquent, proponents of neoliberalism sound as if they are doing poor people, the environment, and everybody else a tremendous service as they enact policies on behalf of the wealthy few.



The economic consequences of these policies have been the same just about everywhere, and exactly what one would expect: a massive increase in social and economic inequality, a marked increase in severe deprivation for the poorest nations and peoples of the world, a disastrous global environment, an unstable global economy, and an unprecedented bonanza for the wealthy. Confronted with these facts, defenders of the neoliberal order claim that the spoils of the good life will invariably spread to the broad mass of the population - as long as the neoliberal policies that exacerbated these problems are not interfered with by anyone!



In the end, proponents of neoliberalism cannot and do not offer an empirical defense for the world they are making. To the contrary, they offer - no, demand - a religious faith in the infallibility of the unregulated market, drawing upon nineteenth century theories that have little connection to the actual world. The ultimate trump card for the defenders of neoliberalism, however, is that there is no alternative. Communist societies, social democracies, and even modest social welfare states like the United States have all failed, the neoliberals proclaim, and their citizens have accepted neoliberalism as the only feasible course. It may well be imperfect, but it is the only economic system possible.



EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT
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flamingyouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Hi Cryofan!
Great essay, but could you please edit it down to four paragraphs & the link, per DU copyright rules?

Thanks!
flamingyouth
DU moderator
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. quicktime & mp3 here for those who missed it
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