Michael Jackson (I would like your thoughts on this)

I have studied behaviorial profiling a bit. I am no expert at it, but I believe Jackson is a serial offender. He cannot be cured, and should never be left alone with children. He will do it again, because he has real trouble avoiding temptation, and he constantly tempts himself by bringing children into his home, his bed etc.
Here is my profile.
Michael Jackson is essentially deeply disturbed. He is unable to relate to adults and is afraid of them. While he may be homosexual, he is not attracted to adult men. He prefers androgny, pre-pubescent boys. He most likely has Peter Pan fantasies, which is the ultimate symbol of androgny. Adult males frighten him. Children on the other hand, especially those that are vulnerable, allow him to have a feeling of power. He feels, despite all his wealth and fame, deeply inferior. Essentially he feels like a child himself and is very immature emotionally and mentally.
Michael Jackson IS a predator. He craves the feeling of power that he can hold over these children. He is a serial offender, and while he might be able to control his urges sometimes, other times he breaks down. While he might feel geniune emotions for many of these children that he associates with, his motives in befriending them are not altruistic. He craves their presence, sexually, mentally and emotionally. When children are with him, he might have trouble keeping his hands off them.
Sexually, he is immature. He is probably more interested in touching, kissing and exploring than he is in sodomizing them. he probably tries to envision many of the encounters as games, and presents them as games to the children. If the child is uncomfortable, and draws himself away, Michael probably goes into a tantrum or despair until the child willingly submits to please his benefactor.
Michael placates both the children and the parents by lavishing them with gifts and money, and by presenting an outward facade of deep concern over their welfare. He is good at hiding his inner perversions and tries to appear asexual himself.

I remember a concert of his my Mom and I went to (actually he was just appearing at the 1992 Lincoln Memorial Inaugeral concert that we had close-up tickets for) and my Mom said "he must be really insecure about his sexuality - he grabs his crouch so often".

Which explains him I think.

I also agree that he doesn't have to be doing explicit sexual acts with the children to be sickly exploiting them.

It's their own goddamn fault if their kid gets molested.

WHO THE HELL WOULD LET THEIR KID HANG OUT WITH MICHAEL JACKSON ALONE!!!???!?!

God. Why are people so fucking stupid?!

Or maybe they thought it would be good for their kids to be close to a big and powerful star.

Or maybe just plain old greed.

Denial can lead people to do some pretty destructive things, both to themselves and their kids.

I'm not excusing the parents - just trying to understand them.

and lavishes their parents with all kinds of gifts and money, like buying them cars, paying bills etc.
I guess some parents turn their heads or cannot believe Michael hurts the kids.

...let me make it abundantly clear that I'm not endorsing or forgiving MJ's actions or those of these idiot parents. However, and with no knowledge of the actual family(ies?) involved, I'd like to offer some conjecture about the whole 'so fucking stupid' question:

MJPredator is gonna find a put-upon, unlucky kid, possibly from a broken and/or broke family. Someone of meager means that will be bowled over by the attention of a rich and powerful guy. I've heard that MJ provided them with a car to transport his victim to/fro, which would suggest (who knows for sure if that's anything but rumor, btw)that this is someone poor enough to REQUIRE a car.

Now, I'm a man of middle-class (at best) means, and I've been desperate for cash before, so I completely understand the lure of easy money. I'm not suggesting these folks consciously offered up their kid for $, just that you could rationalize, even it a situation like this (Well, gee, if he were really guilty they'd have locked him up already, or Well, no one would abuse a cancer kid, would they? or Wow, Mr. Jackson was so passionate when he told us how they're trying to lynch him, and I believe him...) because you're broke or at least struggling, your kid needs expensive health care, and MJ has courted not just your son but your entire family slowly and methodically, gaining your trust, dangling the prospect of lifelong financial security like a carrot in front of your hungry family's eyes.

Predators suck. And they suck away any chance of normalcy out of their victims' lives. I hope MJ is put away for life, but unfortunately I live on Planet Earth.

A very insightful take on the situation. Thanks.

He gave costly gifts including cars to people. I think it is well accepted that he was largely asexual and sex held little attraction for him relative to other men. We don't assume he's a predator who hid a secret life molesting little kiddies. We just assumed he was a sweet naive man with little knowledge of the world who felt obliged to buy friends. Is it impossible that Jackson, who has been famous from his earliest memories, could be equally innocent and naive? Is it that we truly can't accept that a black man can be un-interested in sex?

As far as sending the car to pick you up, it is standard to send a car and driver out to pick you up -- even if you're rich. When I was posing as rich, I got plenty of cars sent out to pick me up and take me places. It is just what is done on that level of wealth. Doesn't mean that sex is expected or even an issue. It's more a status thing, although they would probably claim it to be more a "convenience" thing.

I hate to defend Jackson for fear he is guilty but jeez when I look at what I know about him and DON'T know about him...all I can say is...people are awfully quick to judge.

and I think the race card is uncalled for, lazy debate, and seemingly out of nowhere. If Elvis were seen on film defending his practice of sharing his bed with other people's children ("It's the most giving thing you can do!" MJ told Bascheer) and displayed a preoccupation with all things childlike that was developmentally inappropriate and fit established behaviors of serial predators, then yes, I think the King would've been in hot water himself.

And in what world was Elvis perceived as asexual? Between his films, his publicized marriages and affairs, throngs of fans throwing panties on-stage, and even E. himself describing a trim hunt in a documentary (hilariously, when someone reminds him of the camera he stops mid-sentence and begins singing "Bringing in the Sheaves), I'd say he's remembered by many as the epitome of sexual dynamism. Even Eddie Murphy said so once.

And I said I'd heard a car was GIVEN to this family, and stressed that it was an unsubstantiated rumor. Giving them a big shiny expensive object is different than sending Jeeves with the stretch. It was part of a bigger point about wooing the family as a whole that you apparently missed.

Elvis had other personality disorders, but was not a sexual predator.
He seemed perfectly capable of sleeping with and having relationships with adult females, probably hundreds of them. He didn't have other people's children over for sleepovers.
He also came from a relativly stable home.
He might have been abusive and nuerotic, but he does not fit the profile, at least from what I know of him, of a serial predator.

if he was sleeping with my 14/15 year old daughter I would certainly not be happy about it.

Are you saying Elvis was asexual? Because I don't think that's "well accepted" at all.

And according to reports, he didn't send a car to pick the boy up, he BOUGHT the family a car so they could bring the kid out to the ranch.

Even his wife said he couldn't get it up any more once he realized she had become pregnant. I thought he was well-known for his hang-ups. Hmm. Maybe just in the south.

Both Elvis and Jackson bought people cars. Elvis was famous for buying Cadillacs, I thought everyone knew that.

Point taken on some of the other stuff but I'm just not as confident as most here that Jackson is guilty. Everything we're going by here is gossip. We don't KNOW anything. It just seems against our ideals to pre-judge a man.

hung up on his mother and therefore mothers. Once Priscilla got pregnant he could no longer imagine her as a sex partner, but only as a mother.

Did Elvis invite other people's prepubescent boys into his bed to sleep with him? Are there paintings and murals at Graceland of young children annointing Elvis's body with oil, or who inexplicably have the back flaps of their "Dr. Denton" underwear down?* NO. It's not the gift giving that's a problem, nor does it point to more horrible, disturbing problems. If a person exhibits pedophilic behavior, you call him a pedophile.

It's just unbelieveable to me what people will do here to stick up for Michael Jackson.

*I actually saw this touching little tableau in an article about Neverland published may years ago, in the early 90s. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that mural. I knew even then that the man was at best disturbed and at worst dangerous.

Michael jackson, even without the charges would be red flagged in my book.

no problem I guess when it involves young girls. They are fair game.
MJ may or may not be guilty of what you are saying. However you don't know that and in this country we still beleive someone is innocent until proven guilty. Get over your judgemental self.

Sources, please. Otherwise, that's two breaks you owe me.

If you're referring to his pre-marriage friendship with a teenaged Priscilla, I seriously doubt he arranged sleepovers. He lived with his parents in Germany, and his mama would have slapped him silly.

Elvis no doubt had many affairs, but he never exhibited pedophilic behavior, nor did he abuse his own daughter--like, say, by dangling her over a fourth-floor balcony or covering her with a burka, for instance.

Michael Jackson deserves his day in court for these latest charges as presented, and I hope, as you do, that this matter is cleared up. But Michael Jackson IS guilty, at the very least, of being a complete idiot. After paying off his previous accuser to the tune of $20 million, you'd think he'd have the smallest clue about modulating is behavior. I make no accusations that have not been supported by his own testimony or in other video of his shenanigans broadcast worldwide.

He didn't have a home dedicated to impressing children etc...

I am awaiting more information, but I don't think you can compare the two. KWIM?

Rationalization may have provided the mom an excuse in her own mind...but...it isn't.

On the triter side, *my* question: why on earth would any self-respecting twelve-year-old still idolize Michael Jackson? It's not like he's released any decent music since before he would've been born.

Seriously. What if the mans innocent?

Yes, he's weird. But we have to presume the best from him. Someday you might get accused of something like this.

Just a thought.

and what i know about him supports this, at least in my opinion.

in my very humble opinion.

It's just not possible that he hasn't committed these crimes here, and most likely, many, many more.

And you know this how? Because he is physically unattractive?

we don't know what the truth is . . . for all anyone knows, Jackson has never had any kind of sexual contact with boys, but is psychologically just a big kid who enjoys playing with other kids . . . this jumping to a guilty verdict just because a zealous DA and the American press say so is about as un-American, and unfair, as you can get . . . yeah, he's a freak, but he may be completely innocent of these charges, and must be presumed so until proven otherwise . . . that's the way we do things here . . .

quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck.

Child molestation is very very very tough to prove especially in cases like this, where the actions didn't culminate in an violent act upon the child.

But we KNOW, in our heart of hearts what really happened to this kid and scores of others. We know. There isn't one iota of doubt.

The actions themselves, while not violent, still are a violation on the child. We know this.

I don't know this, and I was a victim of child abuse. When I try to figure out who put the ideas in my head that I have about Michael Jackson, I suddenly realize I "know" almost nothing.

If we don't respect due process, we might as well start giving each other mega-dittos.

Having said that, though, in your personal opinion, do you really believe the defense you offered for MJ? I ask this not to provoke or pick a fight, I'm just unclear whether you're truly defending MJ or just due process. If it's the former, it would be interesting to hear why.

Promise this is not a set-up.

and would never even think about sending MJ to jail without a fair trial.
That said, i think he is guilty and fits the classic profile of a paedophile.

and it scares me . . . I personally don't care for MJ, and I think he makes tons of bad choices regarding kids . . . but he's, for lack of a better word, an unusual individual, who just doesn't seem to think like most other people . . . I'm both defending due process and attacking the way people like Jackson can be pilloried by the press before a single shred of evidence has been produced in court . . . I'm also leery of that DA who seems to have a vendetta going and is bound and determined to hang MJ no matter how long it takes . . . is he guilty? . . . I don't know, and you don't know, and no one else knows except for him and the kid he allegedly had contact with . . . it just infuriates me to see someone tried and convicted by the press, and to watch the American public just passively buy into it as gospel . . . if you recall, that's exactly what the press does with George Bush, though in a positive rather than negative way . . . should give us all pause, imo . . .

15 years ago, the press would have never tried to do this. Since then, Michael's activities with children (by his own admission) have caused red flags to fly with anyone who has any understanding.
He has not been proved guilty, but I am willing to wager that even if he did not touch this boy he is still a pedophile if not an active pederast.

1. If this were the guy next door telling about how
he lets kids sleep in his bed, brings them home off
the street in a limo, etc., would you be okay with
it?

2. If he was doing this, sleeping in a bed and talking
about it like it was normal, with YOUR kid, would
you be all right with it?

3. If this was anyone else saying/doing this, would
he be still on the streets? Alive?

None of his behavior- which he tells himself- is normal
for a FORTY-FIVE YEAR OLD MAN. I don't care how weird
his childhood was, he's a man now. He's not allowed, nor
is anyone else to do this kind of stuff. To act like he's
just a guy who's different after knowing what he does
with kids is stranger to me than considering his guilt
or innocence, which will be decided by a jury.

He's a pedophile with money enough to groom vulnerable
kids in a big way and he's gotten away with it too long.
He's a bad, sick man and he feels such awfulness. Why
would he carve himself up the way he does? People have
begged him to stop and he didn't. He has only himself
to blame and because a pedophile can't be trusted or
cured, he will never stop until he IS stopped.

RV, who had many a molested kid in my classroom and hates
the soul-destroying pedos that do it. He's a sick man. He
doesn't need more enablers than he already has. Because
people haven't taken steps with him, he'll probably be put
in prison with the rest of the sexual predators with less
money, less fame and less luck.

the inside of a prison . . . sad to say, if it got that far, my gut tells me he'd commit suicide or find a way to flee . . . no way will he allow himself to be incarcerated . . . jmho . . .

the profile on the D.C. sniper was "dead on the mark".NOT

But you know what.... there isn't anyone, except maybe my immediate family, that I would have left my child completely alone w/.

Even now, as he stays after school to work on different projects, I always ask him to ask a friend to stay w/ him. He shouldn't ever be in a room w/ only one other person, unless they're family (and I know for some people, "family" is a poor exception, but it's not for my family).

When you don't look like other people, you get accused of all sorts of things, and people are prepared to believe any story about you because you are physically unattractive. Been there, done that.

Vitiligo can strike at any age, and it can strike white people too, but it doesn't happen often enough to shake the smug security of those who know "this can never happen to me." Lots of other skin diseases can though. When you're the "creep" solely because of your looks and your actions mean nothing, no matter how kind and generous you may have been, well...then you have the ability to empathize. But most "normals" (as I used to think of them) have absolutely zero ability to see the freakish-looking individual as anything human that can be empathized with. I had skin disease for many years from birth; yet people were quick to blame me for the disease. I have heard every accusation from "karma" to "herpes" -- anything for people to deny that a funny-looking person is also part of the human race.

In the end, it's all about looks. Maybe even racism is a subset of the whole "they look funny" problem. Well, I'm rambling here, must quit.

is nothing but child-abuse IMHO.
In this case it's created a serial child abuser...sick and demented.
He needs to be kept away from children including sadly, his own.

Did you derived this knowledge about Jackson's psychiatric state from personal interviews or from reading People?

While Jackson seems like a very bizarre individual and could be all the things you say, you probably are not in a position to make these assertions based on the reports of tabloids, so why speculate?

BTW, what is the relevance of some singer's psychosis to the state of Democracy in the US, and what does it have to do with DU? Just asking.

Clearly, regardless of guilt, if Jackson had been an anonymous 'regular' black man he'd have been in prison years ago.

where all sorts of topics are discussed.

it from studying behavioral profiling (I have read several books about criminal profiling), combined with what I know about Jackson, including from the interviews I have seen.

The parents are close behind in culpability for this mess. They are the worst breed of whores.

I honestly believe that in HIS mind, MJ truly believes he is not doing anything wrong with the children but instead trying to finally have some semblence of the childhood he was denied when he was actually a child.

When he was growing up he was on public display with the Jackson 5 and to top things off he was abused by his father (physical, not sexual). Several of MJ's siblings have also admitted this.

He's never probably had the chance to be a kid, which is why he feels like Peter Pan now. His ranch is a child's dream - a zoo and amusement park rides.

I'm not saying what Michael did was legal, because no 45 year old adult should be sharing a bed with a child who is not related to him and especially when the adult lives in a home with goodness knows how many beds!!!(I'm 37 and I've shared a bed with a niece or nephew - but it was known by both the parents and grandparents {my parents}) and done simply for lack of sleeping space in the home usually of either the parent or grandparents. (BTW - they hate sharing a bed with me - they say I toss & turn too much, kick and snore).

I think his father was extremly abusive, and the fact that he was on stage constantly probably denied him a child hood.
He was not born this way. This is a creature that was created by an abnormal lifestyle and an abusive father.

He's a 45-year-old man, for chrissakes. He's responsible for his own behavior. He has no excuse. He's getting his emotional needs met by manipulating small children - and yes, that's wrong even if they're not sexual needs being met.

I think if MJ had a chance at a childhood he wouldn't be doing this bizarre crap to himself and other children. MJ needs serious mental health care along with a prison term.

But studies have repeatedly shown that abusers tend to have had a childhood where they were once the abusees. Michael fits that path and we need to stop this and all predators with the full intent of the law!!

And I'm intrigued by what makes people like this tick, too. Maybe if we were all more familiar with the signs (not just of pedophilia, but of potential killers and other sociopaths as well), we'd be *less* likely to let them off the hook.

Personally, I never did understand why anyone saw a grown man who seemed to prefer the company of young boys to that of adults and somehow made a distinction between that and "real" pedophilia. What do they think pedophilia *is?* Yeah, okay, it may end up being important for legal reasons, but there's no way in *hell* I'd let my kid stay with a grown man who wanted to snuggle with them in bed, even if I was 100% sure there would be no overt sexual touching going on. I mean, *why?*, you know?

BTW, J.M. Barrie, author of the original "Peter Pan," was deeply creepy himself, and had a very strange relationship with the three sons of the woman he eventually married. And, most bizarrely of all, he ended up strange physically, too, even without the benefits of plastic surgery: he looked like a twelve or thirteen-year old boy till the end of his days, small, slight, high voice, no beard. Whether one caused the other in some weird mind-body working that we don't understand, or whether it was just a coincidence, who can say.

You seem to understand where I am coming from. The Peter Pan thing is classic pedophile. An adult who is infatuated with Peter Pan is a classic red flag for a child molester, like it or not. Peter Pan is the symbol of androgny in popular culture, and pre-pubescent children

and other verifiable sources. Most of this is conjecture, an attempt at profiling the offender. I took what i knew to be fact, and personal testimony from the defendant and combined it with what I know about behaviorial profiling.

no, but i have watched him interviewed on television, read his statements etc.

And from an interview that was probaly edited to make him look bad you know he is a pedophile, afriad of adults(maybe he is but that doesn't make him a child molestor), he has peter pan fantasys or whatever you said? Sorry, I don't agree with that profile.

I am taking what I know and combining it with my rather elementary knowledge of criminal profiling.
This is an opinion, not a factual presentation. I could be wrong.

As far as I know someone claimed MJ drugged his kid and molested him, I don't know much more then that. It is clearly not enough to determine whether he is guilty or innocent.

You know he has been accused and settled for a large some of money in the past. You know that he likes to "sleep" with young boys, according to story about him that he had created.

...until proven guilty. Period.

It is sad that the media in this country sentences people before any trial even starts.

Yes, he probably did it, and I pretty much agree with what you said. But I SHOULDN'T know this. And what I know I take with a grain of salt, given the track record on media truthfulness.

Oh, that, and the fact that it pisses me off to even pay any attention to Michael Jackson. I don't even like his music.

I do believe he is guilty, and that is the basis of this profile. I wrote the profile in the belief that he is guilty.

There are alot of media rumors, particularly in tabloids, about michael jackson that are probably false.
But, I used sources that are verifiable like his own words. Also, even if the media is shady (I think all media is shady because it is filtered through other people) I think it is still possible to verify that his ranch is called 'Neverland' (Peter pan fantasy) and by his own admission he invites young boys to sleep in his bed, etc.

But based on his own words? He publicly admitted he molested kids? Alot of times my dog sleeps on the same bed I do, am I molesting my dog?

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But you said you believe he is guilty and then you come up with this stuff like he cannot quit, he will do it again, he is afraid of adults, etc. I disagree with it.

I look at his personality, what he himself admits he does combined with some background information on serial predators and their personalities.
I think he fits the profile of a serial offender, because this is not the first time this has happened and despite the notoriety he gained before he has been unwilling to stop these deranged sleepovers and other bizarre behavior with other people's children. His behavior with children is far beyond the norms of society, and quite frankly his obsession with young boys is very, very telling.
I can also see signs of a deeply insecure man with androgny fantasies, like peter pan(Never land ranch?) and deep emotional and mental immaturity.

you would be risking alot of trouble and an intense investigation and
rightly so.

MJ has admitted that he finds a special joy in sharing his bed with little boys and can not understand that that very admission is disturbing. He dangled his baby over a balconey and could not understand the outrage and fear for his children.
He covers his children in thick veils when they are out and does not seem to realise that damage it is doing to them.
He seems unable to see his actions are disturbing and enhance the reputation he has as a "freek."
It is not his skin disorder that makes him look freaky, it is his mutilated nose and surgically ruined face. (Which he denyed having, that is what convinced me that he is most likely guilty of hurting children. That he could lie to the cameras, say he had not had surgery, when his face says it has been altered.) The man has an altered sense of reality to most people and I believe he is sick and needs help. I believe his children need to be protected from him too.
I loved Michael Jackson in the 80's he had extra-ordinary talent and he looked great too. He had the world at his feet, the could of had and one he wanted. I think that this is tragic for all involved.

A person with a skin disease, who appears deeply frightening and unusual to others because of his disease, broken in spirit to the point where he dabbles in anorexia, compulsive surgeries, and even drug abuse....A person who is asexual to the point of having the world's most famous virgin of the era as a girlfriend (Brooke Shields, God I'm old, it's hard to remember her as a virgin now) and who is famous himself for apparently having had three children without actually performing the dirty deed (ain't technology grand)...skin disease/anorexia can have a severe impact on one's sexuality or one's desire to get naked with anyone...it is not necessarily beyond belief that he is indeed asexual.


Unfortunately, this deeply peculiar and peculiar appearing person has the misfortune to be a highly prominent figure in a highly visual society. We are ready to believe any ill of a person who looks freakish. Been there, got the T-shirt.

I don't know the truth about Jackson, and neither does anyone else, but I do know how people judged me when I had skin disease on my face, and the knee-jerk assumptions about anyone who looks funny are very disturbing to me.

I agree with Jermaine Jackson -- "you don't know anything about our fucking family." And that applies to me as much to anyone. All I know is my own experience, which suggests that Jackson can't possibly receive fair treatment in this society or any other. "Looksism" is bred in our blood and bone, apparently.

Adult males frighten him? Perhaps they do. Not too uncommon a symptom for the eating disordered. It doesn't mean we molest little kiddies, thank you.

Hell, you may be right. But I feel compelled to give the other side. Too many people are willing to jump on Jackson's ass because he wears too much make-up.

it is the nose that need to be stuck to his face with tape.
it was his habit of wearing a mask in public for years and all the work on his face that he denys that makes him look "freaky."
People see it as sad that a once good looking man has destroyed his
face. This isn't about lookism or a skin diseses.
This a man who publically admitted have young boys in his bed and
is scene walking around with children, covered in such dense material that must have trouble seeing. He has an altered preception of reality and he has behaved in away that indicates mental illness.
If he has abused children, it should be brought to justice and whether he wears make is irrelevent is this situation.
It is a matter of protecting children, especially his own. You may have an eatting disorder, but I take it you do not think that it is
a sensible thing to dangle a baby over a balconey or feed a baby whose head is covered with a towel.
I too have battled with eatting disorders and I don't think that MJ's issues make others with eatting disorders likely to molest children.
That is an completely different mental disease, that fortunatly you and I do not have.

To say he is deeply disturbed is an understatement.

I don't know how parents can be so naive and allow their kids to be around that creep.

Fragile voice, self-mutilation, aversion to adults, and fear of germs all add up to pedophilia.

Even if he isn't guilty of molesting the child, he IS guilty of not protecting himself from being prosecuted again by greedy parents.

Either case, he deserves help / prison.

care to share with the class what characteristics do make up the profile of a pedophile?

But I seen a court case from one man 1 or 2 years ago and he looked like a regular man, he had a "manly" voice but he was very manipulative. I think the profile of pedophile ranges, like the profile of a murderer.

I'd say.

And no, it isn't possible that he "just loves kids, what's wrong with that?" There are indeed healthy adults with healthy sexuality and boundaries who love children. Choose to work with them for a living, whatever. I really don't think that said healthy adult would go out of their way to "court" individual, "special" kids, let them stay over for extended sleepovers, and "share their beds." It is Not Appropriate. Period. Kids are *people.* People who are in the process of their own growth and development. They should not be treated as human teddy bears. And it's that very distorted, almost "inhuman" perception of kids--that they're these very very special "innocent" creatures, as opposed to just, you know, people in a particular stage of life--that really screams PEDOPHILE! Because, among other things, it suggests that the kids are being treated as objects. "They like it"--well, a $20 million lawsuit and now a new court case might just suggest that they *didn't* like it, in fact.

The surgery and related weirdness is just icing on the cake, I'd say. Yes, there are pedophiles who look and act "normal," and I'm sure most anorexics and body dysmorphic people are not pedophiles. It's the *way* in which he's weird that's suspicious (i.e. that he seems deeply out of touch with reality as most other people understand it), *coupled with the fact that he REALLY, REALLY LIKES LITTLE BOYS.*

His unhealthy relationships with children, by his own admission, are the reason I think he is a pedophile. It is also worth noting that MJ still brings children into his bedroom despite the fact that 10 years ago he was charged. This shows to me a serial offender, incapable or unwilling to stop.

Jeebus, this is crazy. I can't believe we're sitting here condemning a man on this kind of "evidence." You could use the same arguments to produce a profile showing that he is starving and mutilating himself to avoid having sex at all -- an argument often made about people with eating disorders.

Do they put all E.D.s in the "sexual predator" file or only the black, male ones, I wonder?

put out an arrest warrent. I believe they must have more than just
a hypnosis tape to go on, for them to go that far. The authorities have been waiting to fully investigate MJ and something must have come up, to get them the authorization for an arrest.

That fact that his has an eatting disorder is irrelevent, unless he is so straved from food it is affecting his brain function.
I have seen nothing here that suggests that he is suspect purely because he is unweight or he is black.

If he was an ordinary white man with a pot belly, he would most likely
have been in jail, for behaving as Jacko did. He most certainly would not be allowed to adopt a child and be on the register for child endangerment.

In the UK Gary Glitter was done for child sex crimes with a computer, he is white,fat and once popular. His career is finished.

I am not convinced that the police in California or several other states need much in the way of evidence, other than an accusation, in a child molesting case. We already know that there are past cases that played across the media that turned out to be completely fabricated.

I just can't accept "trust the police, they wouldn't do this without good reason" until I see it. Not on a case that promises to bring some California prosecutor all kind of opportunities to grandstand in the media.

I'm going to have to stand by "innocent until proven guilty" until I know more.

No sympathy for Jacko, really, but I do see grandstanding by the prosecutor here. If Jacko isn't allowed due process, the rest of us might as well just turn ourselves in now.

If you don't know or remember the McMartin case in California, read up. Hideaous miscarriage of justice.

OTOH, if Jacko came within 10 feet of my 6 yo son; I'd kill him with my bare hands. I really would.

...the alarm designed to only go off when someone approached the bedroom door, for instance (not true for the rest of the house). Would you not say that's just a *tad* suspicious? Coupled with the "secret room" decorated with photos of (someone else's) infants, rag dolls, and other kiddie paraphernelia, found at the back entrance to his bedroom closet? Not to mention photo albums of (other peoples') naked kids? These are from verifiable sources, police investigations; the "secret room" is on video. Would you say that these are just signs of a lovable eccentricity? 'Cause they look pretty damn suspicious to me.

been tested at trial. None of us has seen the evidence to answer your question. Not even you.

As far as an alarm on your bedroom door, I find nothing strange about a man of his wealth and celebrity having as alarm on the door to the room where he sleeps. But in your mind, it's more than a "tad suspicious". Why don't we not only wait and see what is produced at trial, but also what the defense has to say about the evidence produced. You are talking about things being suspicious to you without even having heard what Jackson has to say about them. No jury would be allowed to do that, but I guess, since your standard is not the same as that a jury must bear, you can just make up whatever conjecture you want to find him guilty.

describe Jackson's residence as ' a pedophile's dream house'.

"Fragile voice, self-mutilation, aversion to adults, and fear of germs all add up to pedophilia."

No, they don't. The combination of the latter three are delusional, are key indicators of self-image problems, are key indicators of paranoias, but are not necessarily related to pedophilia. The latter three are no more key indicators of paedophilia than a lack of tattoos, aversion to children and coprophilia are indicators of a healthy sex drive or indicators of paedophilia.

Paedophiles come in all varieties. Big, small, fat, thin, loud, quiet, pretty, ugly, attracted to girls, attracted to boys. A profile is merely a stereotype that leads us astray as often as it leads us to the right suspect. (We saw this frequently at ComCare.) Many of you forget that girls can be victims of paedophiles too... but since they sometimes marry us, it's not the same?

The fragile voice is an occupational hazard, caused by physiological changes caused by early, strenuous use without proper training and/or warm-up. Several child and teen singers have either voice problems or have had to be very careful and get good training.

"...he IS guilty of not protecting himself from being prosecuted again by greedy parents.

And since WHEN is this a crime? If it is a crime to be too trusting, too giving of yourself, then a lot of us should prepare to be arrested. Perhaps he needs better lawyers and press people, but your suggestion is akin to saying that every driver should stay home to avoid being in a collision with a drunk driver. It's just not reasonable, even when one is super wealthy.

I agree he needs help. He's got self-image problems that are incredibly deep seated; he seems to me asexual rather than pedophilic or homosexual; He may have Munchausen's syndrome; he definitely seems to have an addiction to surgery. He's obviously deeply unhappy about something, what or why, no one knows.

I don't think he's necessarily a danger to himself and others if he has training and help - he needs a team of, for lack of better words, graduate level nannies. People who are experts at raising children to be there 24/7 to assist and train HIM to raise them properly. And he needs a really understanding therapist, one who can see how early pressures, the glaring eye of the camera, and his fears can contribute to his problems.

I don't care what happened in his house. He has not stood trial. He is innocent in my eyes because

THAT IS THE LAW.

Sadly, I'm not eligible for the jury, not living in his jurisdiction. I doubt he could get 12 people in his home county to say the same.

Politicat (who does believe in innocent until proven. Period.)

regularly, this would have caused far more outrage to being with.
I think that their is something very wrong with this man and I have loved his music.
He says he is being helpful and loving which is classic peophiles reasoning. I also think that his children need to removed from him,
it is scary what he could be doing to those children.
I actually think when the reality of what is happening to Jacko breaks through, he may well kill himself, I can see him facing
what he has done.

indulging in critisizing someone in the midst of a very difficult time. why? because you are hooked on americas greatest contribution to the theological universe -- the cult of celebrity.
just on prinicipal alone it's innocent until proven guilty.
other than that -- it's just plain gossip, celebrity gossip.
ugh -- blech

But this is the rare case when a celebrity is a serial predator. I am very interested in behavioral profiling, and after watching the news I did this in my head.

ahead of a verdict -- at the very worst time in a persons life.
if you are interested in behavioral profiling as an amatuer past time -- fine -- but you are presenting something here like you actually know -- and you don't.
it's just gossip mongering.
it's digusting enough that the media practically tries and convicts people these days -- but for random individuals with no expertise to start passing out their ''oh so knowledgable'' opinion as though it had any real weight is really too much.

I said, quite clearly by the way, that I am not an expert. I am guessing.

Michael Jackson brought this on himself. Even if he didn't touch this boy, he most likely touched the one he paid 20 million to ten years ago. And his behavior with other people's children is quite disturbing to say the least, even what he admits publicly.
I would have suspected he is a paedophile (even if he does not actually molest them, which would make him a pederast)based on what he himself admits in public.

If you re-read your profile, you're conjecturing a lot based on public perception. The phrase "most likely" is a pretty suspect item to find in a truly clinical profile. I realize you're an amateur and would strongly recommend John Douglas' "Case that haunt us" book if you haven't already read it (He completely changed my mind about the Ramsey case).

Also, Xchrom, your points are salient but it's "amatEUr," not "amatUEr."

and several other books of his.
He changed my mind about the Ramsey's too.

I would assume the case is pretty damned cold at this point.

I met Douglas, he came to Barnes & Noble in support of that book. I had my then-six month old son with me in the autograph line, and he stopped signing to rave about how bright and with-it my little Monkey was. Made my day. We also discussed what the hell happened with Thomas' Silence of the Lambs follow-up (HANNIBAL was new to print at the time), which Douglas agreed was a train wreck compare to the first two books. Really really gracious guy.

But that is a good story.

What about the book made you change your mind about the Ramsey case?

and a real life sherlock holmes. he virtually invented modern criminal profiling.
You have to read it, but this guy has a 6th sense of studying killers.
John Douglas's books like Mindhunter, Anatomy of Motive and the Cases that Haunt Us are absolutely fascinating. He is a good writer too.
Silence of the Lambs and many other movies were based on his work.

He studied the ramsey case as a private consultant and said he is almost positive someone other than the parents did it, based on his knowledge of criminals. He thinks it was someone with a personal grudge against the father.

But the book still seems interesting.

new way to examine crimes, based on psychology.

Some folks don't get it.

I got yer back though.

and debunks the ones that don't make sense. Stuff that indicted the parents in the press, such as Mom's perceived stage-mother/shrew image, didn't hold up to her relationships with others, her interactions with her son and husband, etc.

A common belief in this case is that Mom (or Dad, or both) killed their daughter, then went overkill with the manufacturing of evidence to 'create' an outside killer. But the evidence is pretty overwhelming that an outsider with even rudimentary knowledge of their lifestyle could've easily gotten in the house (they often left doors unlocked, etc) and most likely did. It's been 3 years since I read it and stuff has faded, but the timeline and the brutal nature of the crime didn't fit the parents or the brother (another theory has Mom finding Brother sexually assaulting JonBenet and covering it up).

Douglas is also a pretty good study of liars, and Patsy seemed genuine in his assessment.

And Dad's business was such that it would be easy to imagine him making enemies. The amount listed in the note is exactly the sum of the xmas bonus he had received, suggesting someone from that world was involved.

All Douglas' books are fascinating reads. I grew tired of the true crime stuff over the last couple of years, though, and haven't read anything new he's done.

I should have said 'in my opinion' before many statements.

i am not thankfully entering a spelling bee any time soon.

anymore than the circus he's already going through? As you imply, none of us here are important in the great scheme of things. Dishing dirt may be morally repugnant to some people here (and oh, how I aspire to such highmindedness), but I hardly see how it affects MJ having the "worst time in his life" one way or the other.

DUer, who can't fit into the anti-everything elitist crowd at DU that are unable to discuss anything except how much they opposed the Iraq conflict.
I guess I am low brow enough to take interest in a celebrity scandal.

where a person who has a rumored history of doing this lives and let him sleep in that person's room.

but I am willing to bet they are an awful parent who probably wants money and other favors from Jackson.

I agree that Jackson is emotionally immature and he should be doing what he's doing but I think you're reading into it when you mention the power trip.

I think he's just a little kid who wants to play with other little kids. He needs an adult around to keep him in line.

He picks children because he feels he can dominate them. An adult would not give him the kind of respect a child would.

..and has a good chance of being guilty of something inappropriate. But I want to see what comes out.

It was his own childhood, particularly his abusive father that has destroyed him.

media everyday on the lies and the bullshit, but when it comes to Michael Jackson, he's guilty guilty guilty. It's surreal. You guys are just like the "sheeple" you complain about. Greedily licking up every drop of what the "fair and balanced" media gives ya.

The great trick nowadays is throw up a lotta bullshit about how celebrities have unfair advantages, then make it politically incorrect NOT to convict. It's ridiculous. In both cases, Kobe and Michael, you have instances where the guy has to come in and post bail, surrender his passport, and he's not even charged with a crime. Then they take their sweet time figuring out what to charge the guy with. In Jackson's case, the gloating prosecutor bragged about how he got the law changed specifically for Jackson, making a sad commentary about his obsession, since no such concern was ever shown for catholic priests who molested children and the churches who have been paying settlements.

Why don't we wait for the trial. And make sure you watch it cause you guys will just soak the "fair and balanced" sound bites right up from the looks of it. You might be surprised. Jackson has testified in many a trial and in depositions. They won't be able to intimidate him as much as they'd like.

Anyway your so-called profile is nothing but what you imagine from the facts you deem significant. Others might see it differently, like the fact that because Jackson never had a childhood, he's living through the happiness he provides for a lot of children.

It's also possible that the reason he prefers to be with children is they are the only people who are not trying to make a buck off of him. They don't demand anything. They don't lie to him.

You guys just go ahead and form public opinion and speculate on non-admissible evidence, BEFORE, the jury is picked. That'll give him a fair trial, right?

I hate this kind of speculation.

'He is living through other children'.
That is crap and you know it. His relationships with children are disgusting, and the facts that parents were throwing their children at this sicko is even more disturbing.
Like it or not, the media did not create this image. Jackson did himself. The media does not make up this stuff out of thin air.

sorry Zuni, but you have zero FACTS. All you are doing is speculating and gossiping. It's disgusting.

I took facts what I know about Jackson (including from his own words) and wrote what I think he might do if he is in fact a pederast.
By the way, I just found this deposition today. A lot of what I wrote jibes with this child's testimony.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/mjsearch1.html

Check it out and then tell me how wrong I am.

Saying Bush lied about Iraq to support Halliburton is an opinion, not a fact and has not been proved. It is similar to what I have done here with MJ

about Bush's motives in Iraq? You don't pass on unverified info regarding Bush? We all do that here, even me. If I can do it to Bush, I cxan do it with MJ.

he hasn't even been tried yet and is innocent until he is PROVEN guilty.

who murdered his neighbor in Texas and then chopped up the body/threw the parts in a lake. He was acquited. Most likey there was by sheer chance, a whole bunch of cross dressers on the jury.
Tah Dah.... innocent.

Maybe Jacko will get lucky too and have a bunch of pervies on his jury.