Girl seeks advice about a guy

I've been seeing this guy for about 3 weeks now.

He was my friend from a place I worked at 2 years ago. We only started talking recently and he asked me out for a drink. We hit it off really well that night, had a lot of common interests, and one thing led to another and he left at noon the next day (Saturday morning). He said he'd call Sunday but surprised me by calling me Saturday night just to say hi.

It wasn't a one-night stand because we've talked every day since that night (average duration of call: between 30 minutes and 1.5 hours) and we've seen each other about once a week. He's gone out of his way to tell me he's not seeing anyone. Each time we see each other, we do stuff, but the physical attraction's really intense and we wind up back at one of our places.

He called me on Sunday night and was really drunk. We had a 4-hour long conversation where he gave me all his "baggage" and I gave him some of mine. Then, he said to me, "I want you to be in my life but I don't want the same old routine where I can't go get drunk with friends on a friday night." Ok, whatever. That's cool, I told him. And I told him that I was already in his life. He proceeded to tell me that he had the opportunity to go out with these two girls with his buddy but he didn't because he couldn't do that to "his girl." He said he wasn't going to tell me that but he wanted to anyway.

So last night, we went out for dinner and played pool and he holds my hand and everything. The whole night was amazing.

So he calls me tonight and we're just gabbing. I wondered about what he said when he was hammered the other night. So I asked. I said I wanted him in my life, too. He said, "I don't want you to think it's forever or anything. It might be but it might not be but he can't decide until later in the relationship." I was crushed. His pizza arrived and I said I have to go and do some work and I'll talk to him tomorrow. I called back a few hours later and he brought it up again and said that he didn't want to get entangled in a BS relationship because he's had girlfriends where he's had to tiptoe around them and ended up getting really hurt because he said things he didn't mean and it made him look like an a-hole. He said he really likes me and likes where this is going but doesn't want to say something just because he thinks I want to hear it (I asked what he thinks I want to hear and he said he didn't know) or what he doesn't mean like he did in the umpteenth number of relationships before and he doesn't want to be taken advantage of.

Now, guys, I don't recall really asking for anything. Did I ask for something without knowing it? What the hell does all this mean?

A. he's relatively honest, doesn't sound like he wants to play games, although he's doing a little bit of it already.

B. he's afraid of a committment.

C. i have no idea what i'm talking about and i'm doped up on nyquil.

Yeah, I thought it was rather gamey of him, too. I mean, what relationships really do mean "forever"?

"Three weeks" ... "It might be but it might not be but he can't decide until later." "Three weeks."

That guy is saying what a lot of men feel - he is being VERY honest with you. He could just tell you want you want to get what he wants - he's not. He's saying "this is nice - I like it.. but dont get all clingy and ruin it before it's even had time to get real." He's enjoying his life, his friends, AND his relationship with you, but doesn't want it to eclipse the other things.

Burn hot, burn fast. Things that will last a long time can take some time to start as well. Have fun - dont enter a relationship looking for forever, enjoy the now, the today. If you're lucky, there will be an endless supply of "todays". Be happy with what you have, with what the thing is - dont try to make it something, let it become something on its own. Quit asking about tomorrow, and enjoy today.

I guarantee you - if you keep pushing on this, it will be over.

Exactly what I was trying to say. Only you said it better :thumbsup:.

Sounds like this guy likes you, and likes the direction the relationship is going, but doesn't want to rush to the serious stage - he wants to enjoy the giddy hey-i-just-met-somebody phase for awhile.

he also wants time to evaluate whether he is ready to get serious.

No amount of pushing on your part will help; it will do just the opposite.

I can emphathize with this guy because since leaving a major relationship a few years ago, I tend to get cold feet whenever I get too involved with someone. He's probably afraid you'll ask for too much too soon from him and he'll end up having to hurt you and himself by ending it later. There are women out there who start looking for the wedding ring from day one. My intuition, based on his reaction and my own experience, is that he's had one or more of those and he's a bit gunshy. I would keep things going as they are, let him progress at a pace he's comfortable with, and definitely don't pressure him. You'll lose him for sure if you do that.

He sounds like a nice, honest guy. IMO, I don't think he's playing you. Probably afraid cause he's been hurt before. Just be patient with him.

Good luck :)

Perhaps it was a "warning" not to be crushing -- he had mentioned before that he's had to tiptoe around some possessive girls and that it really sucked.

I haven't been demanding of him but I just thought about what he said the other night. I've been taking it by the day because I'm not sure what I want either (that's why I got a little defensive when he said that -- because he was the one that started calling me his girl in the first place and I was a little scared when I first heard it).

Thanks for putting it in perspective, though. He really is a nice guy and has had a hard life. I do like him a lot and was surprised by the degree of his honesty -- I'd never met a guy who was that honest with me so I was a little surprised.

and don't try to force things, chances are you won't be disappointed. Even if the romance doesn't work out, you could still end up with a pretty good friend. Some of my closest female friends and I started out in your situation. We were able to keep the friendship going even after the romance fizzled because I was honest with them and they didn't try to push me.

This guy sounds like just one more. Enjoy his company, and if you feel "crushed" again, go enjoy the company of someone who does not make you feel "crushed."

That's not what it's about.

Remember the story of the boy who asked his grandpa, "how do I know if she's the One?"

And grandpa said, "if you have to ask, she isn't."

But just feeling "crushed" because a guy who admits he likes you and wants to keep seeing you wants to move slowly seems a bit over the top to me.

"Crushed" because, after only three weeks, he says it may or may not be forever ? If the guy was mean to you, disregarded your feelings, talked down at you, used you, lied to you, then "crushed" might be understandable, and I'd agree with the "move along" advice..

From this tiny snippet you've given us though, I'd say you are over-reacting. Sound like you may be trying to build a mansion before the foundation is really laid.

I think I was just reading too deep into it. I had thought before I wanted to take it slow, too, because I just came out of a long relationship a few months ago and because I really just wanted to get to know him. I'm PMSing too so I might've been a little bit sensitive (hence the "crushed").

When I called him back tonight, I just called him up because I was taking a break from work and I didn't ask him about what he said (even thought it bugged me a bit) -- I just called him up to talk about a sci-fi book.

and I think you already started looking for the wedding gown already. I think he's letting you know to chill out and take it slow, nothing will get rid of a guy faster than lifelong plans on the first few dates.

private_ryan,
the last thing I'm doing is looking for a ring right now! I was just confused by the communication and he said the "my girl" thing first and made all the other first moves and then I said what I said because I kind of didn't give him any type of response when I talked to him that time and I thought if I avoided the whole subject altogether, it's kind of like if you give someone a hi-five and they leave you hanging. I felt kind of bad because it scared the living bejesus out of me when he called me his girl after the second date.

getting drunk with his "friends" is more important to him than you are? don't set your heart on this guy. three weeks is plenty of time for two people to see the potential in a relationship. he shouldn't be constantly making excuses and laying his "trips" on you from past relationships. that's manipulative.

he's basically told you what he's like and that he doesn't want to change. if you want to spend the rest of your life listening to excuses and being manipulated - here's your chance.

Personal experience?
Listen to the man, merry_jane.

Personal experience?

i have to admit that my advice was not based on my personal experiences. yes, i admit i could be off the mark here. heck, alcoholics need love, too. this could be the start of a beautiful codependent relationship.

and by the way, i loved the answers you gave to those snotty reporters in "doonesbury" last week.

To be clear--I think you were & are right on the mark,
but ... people are gonna do what they're gonna do. When you're
young you inevitably got some big crap you gotta work out,
and you usually work it out with somebody else who's got
their own big crap to work out, and sometimes if you're
real real lucky your big crap meshes with the other person's
big crap just like peanut butter & jelly and you can keep
spinning your wheels in both your big crap for years & years.
Yes, personal experience. It's like the Dylan line,
"How much abuse will you be able to take? Well, there's
no way to tell from that first kiss." ... Far as Doonesbury,
I don't read it, what'd I say?

The pattern of alcohol consumption is yet to be determined. I've noticed that he does drink quite heavily. Whether or not this poses a problem on his life remains to be seen. He's mentioned alcoholism runs in his family and has acknowledged he has a slight problem with it. He's asked me before if his drinking bothers me ... I answered, "It does not matter whether or not it bothers me or anyone else around you -- but does it stop you from doing whatever it is YOU want to do with your life?" Maybe he's an alcoholic, maybe he's not but that's his choice. I also said that if I saw that I had a problem with his drinking that I know where the door is.

I don't expect him to not hang with his friends and hang out with me all the time. Nor do I want that -- it is destructive to a relationship.

I didn't think I was asking for any long-term commitment tonight but it was just odd hearing someone say the "I don't want you to think this is forever" bit -- I'd never heard anyone say that to me before and it just struck me as funny.

ON EDIT: I'll take the middle of the road and see what happens. Hey, he's not the only dude in the world, is he? Generally, he's a nice guy but there are other things I see about him that may become problems later (so far, I've heard from someone who worked with him about a really ugly temper and I'm very wary of this -- but, again, I have yet to see it). He's laid his "trip" on me but I've told him time and again that I have a problem with people who become abusive because they are too volatile to control their temper.

instead of what some selfish booze-addled guy wants?

I have to get to know him better to see if he's actually selfish.

An interesting thing I've learned through the years, though. People who are the most cautious about being taken advantage of are usually the same people who are the first to take advantage of others.

Something he said tonight kind of struck me -- when he talked about a few past relationships, he also said that he "didn't want to be taken advantage of". I wondered about that because I couldn't see what there was that I could take advantage of and I assumed that he wouldn't take advantage of me (maybe I'm too trusting in that way). Perhaps I should not let my guard down completely yet...

I think what he needs most is you trying to figure
out what he means and thinks and wants and feels and needs.

"An interesting thing I've learned through the years, though. People who are the most cautious about being taken advantage of are usually the same people who are the first to take advantage of others."

A lesson is easier to learn than to apply.

take it from someone who knows. If he truly has an alcohol problem, he would never mention it to you, he would lie heavily about it, and you would never know about it.

you haven't mentioned your ages. If he's under 30, I'd give him a break on the alcohol issue. the fact that he's aware of it and has mentioned it shows an awareness that alcoholics do NOT possess at ALL.

Men under 30 (and sometimes over 30) drink quite a bit. I'm 41, and I've pretty much quit drinking, but when I was in my twenties it was a pretty regular thing.

The guy sounds pretty honest and like he's just kind of freaked out at how much he likes you.

If you like him, just play it cool and all will be well.

Remember this: If you fear something, you will create exactly that which you fear. The important thing is to be fearless, and nonjudgmental, and, well, very zen. if you don't know what that really means, I'd advise you to find out.

Fear is your enemy. It sounds like he's having some fears. About himself especially, but also about women in general.

Women can change on you. A woman who seems intelligent and witty and smart and independent can suddenly one day seem to turn into a little puppy. They get this look in their eyes, and they suddenly just want to cling to you and write poetry that they stick on your door, and wake you up at 2 a.m. to "talk" and that sort of thing. That's the quickest way to scare a guy off.

Just be cool.

n/t

(To Dfong63)

I suspect that it's a subtle way of trying to get you to interpret this as a monogamous thing without his having to say so. This way, he strings you along, you feel guilty about seeing other people, but he doesn't have to commit. There was a whole lot of subtext in that little message that he supposedly didn't want to tell you...

My advice, since you asked, is to immediately start dating other people. Don't rub his nose in it, but get a little busy, and maybe not so available when he calls. Enjoy yourself. Go out, and don't let him track you so much with the phone calls.

And enjoy yourself with him, when you see him. But I would definitely ease up a little and get some perspective. He may be fun in bed, but I see a few red flags- the drinking, the infrequent face-to-face, and the vehement denials about seeing other people. Why shouldn't you both see other people? You're not engaged, are you? You haven't made a committment to each other, have you?

Get out there and have fun without this guy. Change your framework. Then see how he fits in to YOUR life.

Unless you have been acting like Andi in "How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days," telling you not to think it's forever after 3 weeks is inappropriate enough to raise a red flag.

It means one of two things: either he has wildly misinterpreted your signals, or he is letting you know that he does not want the relationship to become serious.

The whys and wherefores of either do not matter. What does matter is that a relationship that new should be undiluted fun and good feelings for both of you.

If either or both of you, at this point, are worrying about how the other feels, that is a very good sign that not only is this one not forever, but neither of you is going to particularly enjoy the time it does last.

You sound smart enough to know that if he calls a girl drunk after 3 weeks, that is a problem. Even assuming that he is an utter cad, alcohol IS preventing him from doing what he wants to do: in this case postponing your discovery that he is an utter cad.

If not, alcohol is making him sound like one, which it is unlikely that he wants. Alcoholism is a metabolic disorder. Failure to treat it and deal with it responsibly is not.

I am assuming that you are both young, and it is certainly true that people can change, and overcome all kinds of things. My admittedly cynical instinct would be to tell him to give you a call when he has overcome them, and in the meantime you will be spending time with people who already have.

but he seems very adolescent. He's not being straight-forward at all. He's all over the place.

Rather than make a solid commitment to you. And sooner than later, he's going to use one of his escape routes -- guaranteed.

My nickel's worth? Turn around, walk, and keep walking. Being with this guy will bring you little more than heartbreak.

I'll bet that there are at least a dozen guys in your life (or waiting in the wings), right now, who are presentable, intelligent, funny, and who will treat you decently.


Hang in there, and stand tall -- you're worth it! :hug:

The guy sounds like he's being really honest.

That's difficult for a guy, because we're so often punished for being honest.

Three weeks ain't much time. I'd give it WAY more time than that before walking.

This thing sounds, in fact, like it's happened mind-blowingly fast, and that's probably freaked both of you out.

Just be cool, be honest, be open, and see how it plays out. Cut each other some slack, realize that both of you are probably as scared as you are excited, and don't assume anything.

Trying to assume how the other is feeling is usually a mistake. Trying to interpret things into what a guy says or does is often a mistake.

Guys are often pretty non-verbal. Actions speak louder than words. Guys are often uncomfortable with talk, because we so often get into trouble when we talk.

Friends don't let friends make drunken phone calls.



Tell Don Juan to hit the bricks, this kind of behaviour is part of a pattern.

This lame-o says that other girls have "made" him sound like an *hole?

If he sounds like an *hole,
and acts like an *hole,

do you really want to be around when the sphincter opens?

This guy's not worthy of your (sincere) emotional investment.

Give him the heave-ho.

"Relax, big boy/girl (as appropriate). Neither of us are fragile, and and all I ask is for no shock surprises".

He's feeling insecure. So are you. It's normal. Relax and communicate.

All this stuff about alcoholism, fear of commitment, irresponsibility and immaturity, might even be true -- but probably isn't. It's a tough time to be in love, and catastrophizing is au courant. No use suffering needlessly.

--bkl
Thus Spake BKL

OK, here's the plan:

1. I've given him no reason to trust or distrust me (hey, I'll be the first to admit, 3 weeks isn't a very long time). I know I'm trustworthy but I can't expect him to know that. So, I'll give it a little more time.
2. I know what he means when a relationship goes into doldrums after 3 months and people get so wrapped up in each other that they begin to lose themselves. I like my life as it is now and am content to ride on this wave of fun for a while. I was in 2 long relationships before leaving them and was a bit perturbed when he ran the "my girl" bit on me.
3. At the same time, I see that he's been trying to see if I will question where he is. He'll say something like: I can't make it on Tuesday night and leave a slight pause for me to ask something like "what are you doing?" but I haven't because I feel he's entitled to his privacy and he doesn't need to explain to me his whereabouts. I will not ask him later even. So far, I've been just telling him about what I did and generally, he'll be courteous and offer the information. This is why I don't think he's selfish. But, on the other hand, I see he's playing a game. Maybe it's his way of checking me out. Maybe it's a head game. I don't know but I don't have the time or energy to play policewoman with him. I have a business to run, money to make, and a future to build with or without him. If I start obsessing about his every moment, my business will suffer and life will suck...with him or without him. This cannot happen.
4. We don't have the exact same common interests and there are things he likes that I find lame and boring and vice versa. I can appreciate this. I won't give up my hobbies and interests just because he's not into them. Hey, I want to do my own thing and pursue my own interests. This is why I'm not in my old relationship. For me to cling on to some other guy's interests -- well, I may as well be in my old relationship then. Don't get me wrong, there are many things we like that overlap but let's face it, we're not the exact same person. I want to do my own thing and have my own life, too.

So, I'll take it in stride and not lose my own person but also proceed with caution myself (because I've been burned many times before, too). I've thought before he was moving very quickly by calling me "his girl" -- my problem is often that guys move too quickly and I become a "his girl" before I realize I'm in over my eyeballs. I've kind of been ignoring his "my girl" remarks because I just don't want to answer it. Last night, I just wanted to tell him I liked him a lot, too, but then he brought up that bogus "forever" thing.

Plus, I don't want to see him every day because I enjoy the excitement of the times when I do see him. I get all giddy and clean my house if he's coming over and I get really excited about seeing him.

You say nothing about your age (unless I missed it) or what is in your suitcase (baggage). Those facts, even generalized would give someone who would like to advise you some needed information.

To use an automobile analogy, your odometer reading would be a huge hint to how you are interpreting his words or actions. For example, if the guy is 25 his drinking might be less of a problem than if he were 45. The guy of 25 is young enough to change that particular behaviour while a guy of 45 has developed a pattern that isn't going to change.

Your "experience" about dealing with a one night stand is also in question. Are you trying to "justify" it in your mind or is your mind set "hey it's no big deal" and it's not an issue. In other words are you trying to find out something about yourself or something about him. I could say the same thing about him too. The "my girl" might be his way of justification for a "one-nighter".

Basically if you like the guy, give him a chance. If you are going to look for every meaning behind every word, there will be no time left over for establishing any sort of relationship. Also be yourself and never try to be what you think the other person is looking for. That takes too much work and all that happens is that you lose the person you really are.

Take it from one who has made every mistake that one could make before I "got it right".

Sorry, I forgot to give our ages:

Him: 36
Me: 31

His baggage items:
1. He didn't get to be what he wanted when he got out of college, he says, because of the recession. He wasn't able to get a job in the science field and now he's a technician and he feels regret about it.
2. His mother is bipolar. He was abused by her when he was growing up.
3. Last few relationships he had really hurt him and, at the end of the last one (it occurred about a year ago and they were seeing each other for a year), he says. He says he initiated the break-ups in both cases but he said that they were very painful for him. However, the more I probe, the less clear the details become. In the longer one of 2.5 years, he had broken up with a girl and she hooked up with someone else in the same company where he worked (she did not work for the same company and, supposedly, met this new guy by chance).
4. His sister is an alcoholic.
5. His half-sister (from his dad's first marriage) was badly abused by his mother. She was so badly abused she moved to the other side of the country and cut herself off from the family.
6. His mother and his sister are not talking because his mother's badly abusive.

And that's all I can remember right now.

He sounds 23. Run fast, run very fast. Notice how everything is someone else's fault? He didn't become what he wanted after college (how many years ago was THAT?) because of the recession? He broke up with those last couple girls but HE was really hurt?

His background is lousy with warning signs, and his actions don't indicate that he's overcoming them, PLUS "I've noticed that he does drink quite heavily. Whether or not this poses a problem on his life remains to be seen. He's mentioned alcoholism runs in his family and has acknowledged he has a slight problem with it" He acknowledges a "slight" problem? He's too old to be out drinking with the buddies a lot and have it NOT be a problem, especially when he prefers them to you.

I'm not a guy, I'm a girl, but I gotta say, this is trouble. Lemme, guess, this guy is good-looking. Been there.

The guy is bad news. His age, the drinking, the blaming, the distancing and then pulling-in (manipulation), etc. It's all bad. If merry_jane is looking for a fuck-buddy, he may be fine. But if not, she should drop him now. He's not long-term (or even short-term serious) material. I have been there, done that, and got the t-shirt, as they say. Trust me.

Average looks, to be honest.

They assume you are much more into them than they are into you. As someone who has hopefully become wiser with time, here is my advice:

If you can take him or leave him, have a great time!

If you are kind of into him, proceed with caution.

If you are REALLY into him, run like hell...

Guys like this are very manipulative, they tell you that they don't want any "entanglements", but they give you just enough to keep you hoping they will change their minds. They never do. This guy is a total type. Trust me, he's bad news.

I'll repeat it anyway, and add in my own advice.

1. He was drunk when he called you. Men say a lot of bs when they're drunk. A LOT of bs. (Trust me, I am very good at spouting bs when I'm a bit toasty.)
2. You've been going out for three weeks, during which time you've seen each other, what, four, five times? That's not enough to get too serious.
3. You slept with him on the first date, but it continued afterwards. He's going to have one of two reactions to that. He'll either think of you as someone he can easily turn to for a good time, or he'll start to wonder if you're getting ahead of things and wanting a long-term relationship.
4. Which brings me to you. While you say a lot about wanting to give him his space, you questioned him about the "get drunk with my friends" remark at least twice. He's probably thinking even more that you are moving too fast.

My advice is to back off a little bit. Continue to talk to him, continue to see him. BUT, don't talk about a long term relationship unless he brings it up (for a while - if you're still dating in three months, that topic's fair game). And forget everything he said to you while he was drunk.

about getting drunk with his friends. He asked if I would have a problem with it.

Do yourself a favor....save the heartache.....

He may be trying to have his cake and eat it too.

He may have been burned in the past.

He may simply not want to commit.

He may want to stop having to lie and play a lot lotta social games and bullshit possibly 'cause he's not really good at it.

Here's my only advice for what it's worth:

Reassure him that he doesn't have to tiptoe around you but at the same time you are allowed to be brutally honest around him. If he thinks that's great - problem solved. If he gets shifty-eyed, you've got a problem.

3 billion men in the world and all you have is that guy?

I've thought that, too. I liked this guy for a while because he's an uber-geek.

I like him because he talks string theory to me but I'm also finding that there are some other cute dudes that also talk string theory.

I like him a lot but I won't be heartbroken for too too long if it doesn't pan out. But if it doesn't look like it would likely pan out, I'd just like to abandon it and move on and find some other interesting dudes.

It's only been three weeks and it sounds like he's been burned before. He obviously values the time he spends with his friends and at thhis point, there's no reason you two have to spend every waking moment together. Let things develop naturally. By the way, how old is this guy? Although, on the other hand, my younger hangs out with his old high school friends to the point where they're all bachelors for life. Ever seen the movie "Diner"? That's my brother and his pals.

He'd like to continue to get what he's been getting, without having to learn how to be a big boy and "commit" or "communicate" or any of those other big and scary concepts.

Generally speaking, a sign of stunted development and selfishness.

Interesting idea.

He said his longest "relationship" was 2 years. In my books, it isn't THAT long.

I don't think it's a response to YOU specifically as much as it is to his fears and past experience.

Or, on the other hand, he could just be lying and wanting you as a fuckbuddy. Not to be harsh, but some of us males are certainly that way, and I just don't know the guy.

If you're comfortable with the relationship and happy, then viola. But I do get a weird kinda vibe from it.

Don't mess with his drunken Friday nights!

At 36, he is not a kid, but doesn't sound like he has ever been capable of a healthy relationship. I'd venture to guess that he has a shitload of family-of-origin issues that he hasn't worked out, and is instead drowning them in alcohol. He is afraid of intimacy. He sounds quite adolescent.

My opinion? Run, don't walk away from this guy.

JMHO

He's 36?! Please! I'll agree with another poster who says he sounds early 20s at most.

He may be being honest with you about his "issues". But that isn't enough. At 36 he should be demonstrating some initiative to deal with all his "family baggage" and clean up his perspective on it, quite aside from any dating he does.

He doesn't yet understand that his baggage affects his adult relationships. All this "I still wanna get drunk with my friends on Friday night" stuff is indicative of that.

Yes, mom was abusive. How sad. I get that. It's horrible to live through. But the reality is it isn't your job to comfort him about it. Which is what you will become, his chief counselor and comforter with benefits, if you allow this to continue.

Keep your distance. Get involved with other things and people. Remain his friend if you want, but don't expect that it will turn into something healthy.

edit: Sorry. Wish I could be more positive. But this isn't looking good.

Whether it's past or present- RUN! The complications to your life and the worry is too much. It's like trying to build a life on a house of cards.