"Socialized Medicine is wrong."

Heard this today from my cubie mate. While I love her, she is misguided in a lot of her thinking. She thinks if you give everyone the same medical opportunities, it doesn't give people anything to strive for. She also thinks if no one has to work their ass off to keep a roof over their heads, food on their table and a shirt on their back, then no one would have to aspire to anything and everyone would be lazy asses. Where the fuck does this thinking come from? People shouldn't have to work their asses off for the BASICS of life. And Medical care should be a basic human right. What is wrong with these people!?
Duckie

I mean, don't you just think Japan=lazy?

Some people just have weird ideas. She listens to Rush, so you can see her mentality.
Duckie

I was being sarcastic. I had thought Japanese were famous for being workaholics?

I was just saying...and you're right. They are.
Duckie

See how she likes it then.

Just where is the line drawn? That's what everybody forgets.

Oil executives? Do they pump the oil themselves? What deserves them their gross salaries? What do they really do? And is their salary worth it in the end?

They don't deserve any of it. They don't do any real work!
Duckie

It is crazy crazy crazy that healthcare is tied to employment in this country. It is hard on us and it's hard on businesses. Crazy.

Socialized medicine isn't perfect but it is a hell of a lot better than what we have now. Many many times better. The fact that it isn't perfect shouldn't keep us from moving to a system that works so much better than our current system.

is scary and the same as Communism. They think "they're" all going to come over here and take over. Freaks.
Duckie

Communism and Socialism aren't the same. In fact the perennial socialist candidate Norman Thomas was a staunch opponeont of Communism and the USSR. i think it's that and people don't like the idea of having to pay high taxes for health care. If the idea of socialized medicine I think was argued in a way that most people could understand than they would favor it. I know that's how I am in regards to ideas if something is argued in an articulate way I am compelled to support it.

And there are no more deductions. And businesses pay 25%. NO DEDUCTIONS. ZERO. And then of course really get religion out of politics. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this one, but I really don't care. Everyone pays the same percentage, and if you cheat, you go to jail. No if ands or buts about it.
Duckie

However, if that could be put in to action and executed fairly it could work. The problem isn't wealth to me, the problem is what is what it is everywhere and that is greed. Religion definely needs to get out of politics. My faith is important to me however I don't thikn it has a place in politics. Reminds me the new Archbishop of DC seems to be in favor of giving pro choice politicans communion and he seems like a decent guy on other things too.

next???

Other than a few misguided ideas, she's a lovely person.
Dcukie

I don't believe the insurance and medical industries should be permitted to reap huge profits from the basic human condition, however, nor should government assist them in this. If health care in America didn't come at astronomical costs, health insurance wouldn't be such an issue.

I do believe that if America is what it claims to be, it must take care of its own — including, if not especially, those less equipped to take care of themselves.

As for "nothing to strive for," who the hell says, "I want to make more money so I can go to specialists and stay in private hospital rooms"? :shrug:

My dad got sick when they were in Arizona for the winter. His was insured, but he just about had a heart attack when he heard how much treatment was going to cost. He called BC Medical, and they flew him home, treated him in the hospital for a week and then flew him back to Arizona. It was cheaper to do that, than to be treated in Arizona.

I wish it were even a matter of only the lazy and indolent having trouble obtaining assistance with the health related issues, but there are greater problems with the health care system in America than whether some ride the coattails. ( -And why does being lazy rate a death sentence anyway? )

A close friend of mine works his ass off, and his wife works her ass off too. He works in an office with a major software company and she works with a veterinarian. They have health insurance and they have two very young children. Their daughter was born with a hole in her heart, and while she's coming along nicely, her medical expenses have been astronomical. My friend has, himself, been struggling with health care costs. He has MS and for now, a high stress job. Their health care providers recently changed their formulary with regard to the Interferon he has to take. They classified it as an addictive narcotic so that they only had to cover a portion of the costs. That was a profit driven decision, his Interferon is not a narcotic nor is it addictive. What it is, - is really fucking expensive. He's had to chose not to take his meds as prescribed so that they can afford the care for their infant daughter. With a high stress job this will hasten his decline and will likely cost him his job. They simply do not have the money to deal effectively with both levels of care.

The talk of socialised medicine in the U.S. isn't for the sake of creating a haven for the lazy, it's for the sake of leveling the playing field for the hard working people like my friend having their lives, their health and the livelihoods jacked around by a profit driven industry.

I wish I could even say with confidence that these kinds of situations occur rarely, but in truth, I've at least some observations showing that in fact it's common, and far more common than lazy assed people trying to work the system.

This is fucking medieval. How can any system of government willingly impose this kind of misery on it's citizens and then with a straight face call itself the 'greatest nation on Earth?'

Does she use public roads, parks or libraries? Does she enjoy the protective services of police and firefighters? Does she send her kids (if applicable) to public schools? All of these come from tax dollars, not all of which are hers. In effect, these services come from a form of Socialism.

Maybe she should stop using these things because they encourage her to be lazy. :sarcasm:

Your cubie mate ought to try it once. :thumbsup:

I'm just sick of living in fundieville.
Duckie

In psychoanalyzing the alleged laziness of the less fortunate, I think your cube mate is telling you more about herself than about anyone else.

until his dying breath. Apparently he's racked up lots of debt. I say file for bankruptcy and let the sick man rest, but apparently they didn't ask my opinion.
Duckie

Common people should always have to struggle and suffer, otherwise how is the upper class supposed to maintain their air of superiority? Besides, you aren't suggesting that non-white people should have access to adequate health care, are you? The whole structure of our society would crumble.

Has socialized medicine and tons of social programs.... as well as a high standard of living and an economy that kicks the shit outta the United States at the moment.. so, no, socialism doesn't make people lazy. It makes them work hard cause they know there is a better chance of success when they aren't struggling for the basics.

I never have good comebacks when I'm talking to someone.
Duckie

Let me guess. You guys work for a company where they eat up a significant portion of your health care costs and you have what...200 bucks a month deducted from your paycheck before you even see it?

I own a small business and provide health care, but each employee has to eat the whole cost and be aware of it, instead of hiding it in the backroom numbers. See your cube mate might think she makes, for instance, 50,000 a year when the company looks at her salary as more like 65,000 probably, or even more, because of benefits. Meanwhile she thinks they're affordable.

How much does our health care cost? for a family of three, it's nearly 700 dollars. That's 1/3 of the take home after tax of someone who makes $36000 a year, which is above the median salary in this country.

Socialized medicine would lower those costs. We pay more in this country for healthcare than anywhere else in the world. Health care isn't a 'reward' that we need to strive towards. It's a basic human right. Sure it costs money, and that's why everyone in those socilized countries pays for their health care, to one degree or another. It's just cheaper than it is here.

Healthcare as a reward. How ludicrous. Tell that to the millions of uninsured americans who work two jobs and more than 80 hours a week to scrape by a living. THey dont' work hard enough for health care? Tell her to get her eyes out of her ass and wake up.

So, cubie mate, how's it feel to be one of those "welfare queens" you so despised?

Of course, people like this always think their own situation is somehow different.

Our current (so-called) healthcare system is a drag on our economy in many ways.

Big business ought to support a single payer healthcare system, but I think some U.S. business leaders are more interested in withholding healthcare as a means of terrorizing workers.