Am I the only one here who thinks Macs are all style, no substance?

Sure they never break down - but honestly - when's the last time you used that PowerBook G3 you bought in 2000? Even if you upgraded the memory to 1GB, the thing is slow and worthless. Computers are disposable equipment.

And take the OS - yes OS is Free BSD under the hood, but they have "Macified" it so much it barely resembles UNIX.

Pretty, yes - but useful? Something you shell out 2K for that isn't compatible with 90% of the other computers out there?

Macs are poorly manufactured nowadays, yes, and not really hardware upgradable; but if you work in publishing as I do, you have to use one. It's the PCs that aren't compatible in my workplace.

But started using cheaper parts?????

I understand why you would use a Mac, but anyone in most other professions would be lost...

When Jobs came back in the 90's, not only did he cancel the third-party manufacturing agreements, I understand that they also changed up the head of manufacturing. Once she was gone, IIRC, that's when quality went down. Now, having said that, I just opened up one of the free machines on my floor to check the build quality, and it doesn't seem that bad to me. Then again, you can't piece one of these together from Fry's like you can for a PC/Unix machine, so that in and of itself to me is a big downside.

The G3 I bought for $1700 in 2001 now has an equivalent (reportedly, better!) machine that sells for $500 less.

:blush:

An Apple a day keeps Windows away!

Well thought out, but useless because no one else uses it.

Windows is more like English or French - a pain in the ass to learn, but it's what's being used so....

BTW I speak French.:)And Esperanto will never work.The Universal language of the future is...English but highly modified.

All that time spent on learning Esperanto for nothing. ;)

they have no substance then what have I been doing? Sorry, completely disagree with you on that subject Tav.

I remember when programs boasted "Written in Assembly for speed!" Of course, in the day, a 20GB hard drive was even better than sex... and back then I couldn't afford either of them anyway.

The last decent operating system for PC was DOS 6.22. I don't have the time or inclination to figure it out. I switched because I had a business with one computer and could not afford the lack of reliability. Would you buy a car that ran on only 15% of the roads? You would if they were the only roads that are paved. I have never had any trouble finding software for I-mac except for video games. The only software problems I have ever had are from video games originally written for Windows. Every Apple compatable periferal works without screwing around with port conflicts or whatever. I don't know how it works inside and I don't care. Also, translation software allows me to view my documents and images on PCs and vice versa. So that greatly reduces the compatability issues.

It's more like all style, no viruses.

P.S. on edit:
My 1996 I-mac works just fine.

No problems.

If anything, there's no box-set of readymade applications. If that machine, now converted into a PVR/multi-region entertainment center, had software that talked with each other instead of being proprietary (:mad:), I'd be happier. But I've heard Creative Labs has a product (Audigy 4) that is multimedia-app friendly...

If I need to know the science behind it to the point of having a clue what you're talking about, then it is useless to me. It has to work and if it does not, I need to know that I can get it fixed without a ten minute explanation why it will never be the way I want it.

I see what you mean.

Pity in some ways; the consumer getting everything out of the box, just as they want it. We're all bred to want everything for no effort or experimenting (aka 'research')... I dunno. I see both sides to the issue.

The new intel Macs (which they're doing even in base models) were timed as running Winblows XP faster than a comparable PC. As for not being compatible with other computers, the Intel Macs are completely erasing that line and they were compatible beforehand. The only people that don't realize that seem to refuse to even give Macs a chance. "This feels weird. It's working! And the buttons are on the other side!"

You can use a Mac in absolutely any buisiness application. My stepfather owns a company. Every computer there is a mac, even when it comes to pure finance/buisiness type stuff.

I'm sure it works faster because they QA all of the Mac Software themselves. With Windows, as long as you pass A, B and C you get certified, and many programs aren't even that.

Point is - the Mac costs a lot more. Why? You're paying for Marketing, and stragegic product placement. Did you think Carrie Bradshaw using the newest iBook on Sex in the City was random? Think again.

But most software out there is written for Windows. Sure you can use it as a reasonable desktop system - but ever try to run a mail server on it? Ever try to run a SQL database on it? Ever try attaching storage other than the iRaid or whatever it's called?

I can run down to Frys and by a 1U box, dual processor, dual core that would smoke as an Exchange Server. It would go for under $1000.

OK, now the same class system - the xServe - runs for $3000 - and that's a single proc box!!!

Okay - now I get where you're coming from.

For the record - I am 1.5 weeks into my first ever Mac. I have a MacBook Pro, it it ROCKS. It's ALL substance, baby. Style is an included bonus.

As for SQL/mail server.... :rofl:

Since you think of Exchange when you think "mail server" well ... uh. You could pick up an old mac w/ OS X on ebay for a damned bit better than $1000 that would SMOKE as an Apache/MySQL/SendMail/Postfix whatever whatever Server.

How much is Exchange Server running now days? $$$$$$

But be honest, what business is going to want to hire a sendmail expert to sift through cf files all day?

Note I'm not saying Windows is better...I'm just saying it's what's used.

So I think I'm conditioned to think of this stuff from a completely different perspective.

When you talk about your random Corp - yeah, I can see your point. PHB's however aren't usually noted for their stellar choices when it comes to IT.

I find them to be quite useful and timesaving, being as unlike a Windows box they don't crash on a daily basis, or become infected with the latest viri.

Practicle too, being as they run the vast majority of major software packages, Office, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. etc. And what they don't run natively can be run using a Windows emulator.

As far as compatibility issues goes, I find that any documents, pictures or other work that is created on a Mac can be opened and worked on in a Windows enviroment. In fact Apple has, unlike MS, gone to great pains to have their product compatible with Windows. I'm sure there are some examples of this not being the case, but I've yet to find one:shrug:

And frankly I don't think that you have any room to complain about speed. Even the old adage about Macs, "Able to make a cup of coffee while it starts up" has been corrected. I find that my little EMac at home is quite quick and speedy, and I don't even have anywhere close to a gig of RAM onboard.

And while Windows boxes might give one the impression of "Computers are disposable equipment.", I think that you will find just the opposite in a Mac. I've still got every Mac I bought, from an Apple II through my current Emac, and they all still work fine. In fact my last "everyday" Mac that I had, a PowerMac 6100, I bought in '93, and used on a daily basis with no problems for ten years until I bought my new EMac in '03. Never had a problem with it, rarely crashed, and the viri problem for Macs was so non-existant that I gave up scanning for viri after the third year. And my new EMac is keeping that proud tradition going.

Yes, Macs do cost more money up front, but when you factor in downtime, crashes, reboots, etc. etc., along with the fact that it seems that most Windows boxes are obsolete after five years max, I think you'll find that in the long run Macs are cheaper than any Windows box out there.

And time and again we see that Apple computers and Apple OS are on the cutting edge of technology. The first major computer out there with a GUI, first desktop "supercomputer"(which actually hurt their export ability for awhile), first dual processors, etc. etc.

So you can bloviate all you want about the superiority of the Windows box. But when the rubber meets the road, I'll keep on using my Mac every time. Because yes, they are just that good.

and making a living doing it, too. That makes 'em more than useful in my book. ;) :)

with Windows XP at home. And I definitely prefer the Mac. It has double the speed of my PC and much more user friendly.

Nothing tech wise irritates me more than people who are so convinced one is better than the other, or use derrogatory terms. I've used multiple systems concurrently since I had both a TRS-80 and an Apple 2.

Much of it comes down to which interface you're most at ease with. Personally I use a PC for most of my work, as I like it better. I pound it pretty hard and prefer it's interface, plus I've never had Windows XP crash on me. Oh I've had programs crash, but not the whole system. Apple's have always had worse crash issues in my personal experience than PC's.

If I had to recommend a system for someone I could go either way. It all depends on what they're using it for. If it's for someone not too saavy who wants to do email, surf the net, and maybe do some digital photography or something, I'd probably lean Apple just because it's all tied together a little more user friendly. If someone was more savvy I'd recommend a PC, becuase you get FAR more options as far as types of programs and things you can do. Sure you can do the boot switching on Mac's now, but if you're going to do all that, you might as well just get a PC.

Honestly for most poeple, if they're not going to play games, or do anything highfalutin I'd just recomend the cheapest 500 buck system from Dell or whowever. Apple's are pretty expensive.

How the hell did you manage that? Granted it seems to be more stable than it's predecessors, but it still crashes all the time for me. No matter how many times I reinstall it.

First of all, a Mac doesn't have to be "compatible" with other computers, it's got to run the software you want to do work or have fun. It does that for the millions and millions of people who use Macs.

MS Office was written for the Mac. First. Before there was any Windows.

Steve Jobs only gives money to Democrats.

Bill Gates runs a company that's been adjudicated an illegal monopoly.

Macs now run on Intel chips. They run XP out of the box. And they have what many consider a far superior operating system in Mac OS that is less susceptible to viruses and hijacking than any version of Windows.

The only reason not to use a Mac is because you want to give money to an illegal monopoly that funnels money to Republicans and writes crappy software that you have to use because they've leveraged their illegal monopoly to drive better software writers out of the market.

That's a choice that many people, content with mediocrity even in the face of its effect on dumbing down society making it more susceptible to manipulation by the fat rich white bastards that take money from this obscene monopoly giving them more power to actually accomplish that manipulation, make.

I was hoping that Linux might make a dent...but not yet...

I work with an engineering application and I have to supress my laughter when people ask me if it will work on a Mac.....

Dual booting Pentium Macs will run any Windows/Linux app native.

You know not of what you speak.

Can any PC dual boot with the Mac OS?

that's too easy to use.

I've used Macs since 1988, and yes, I have a G3 iMac from 2000 (literally!), which I took back out of the box and used for a few days while my current computer (a 12" iBook, 2004 vintage) was having its hard drive replaced. Yeah, it was a little pokey, but it got the job done and ran all the same programs I was running on the iBook.

What I like about Macs is that the programs written for them are so intuitive that you don't even have to RTFM unless you're planning to do something extra complicated.

Who cares if I can't build one for $200 from parts bought here and there over the Internet? Why would I want to do that if I'm not a techie?

I may as well ask you why you bother with buying clothes when you can sew them at home.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6553260189868317794

:rofl:

Are you a representative of Microsoft? :evilgrin:

nah, i just love that video. my brother actually hate Microsoft and is trying to get me to use Linux.

My Mac has only crashed once since I got it 6 months ago. No applications have locked up at all, either. I can't say that's ever happened to me on a PC (except one Gateway I had at work in the mid to late 90s... )

and it hasn't crashed once for me. i like how macs look, but i don't know if i'd actually use one. who know though, maybe you've turned me on to them! :hi:

Macs are what the pros use.

which i was i considered getting a mac last year instead of the computer i have. my brother (a complete computer nerd) made a big fuss about them crashing so i decided on this one instead.

by the time i go to film school hopefully i'll have some type of computer that is really good for movie making! :hi:

:rofl:

my brother and i fight like cats and dogs but when it comes to computer stuff i always trust him.

i'll check into that mac though! ;)

It sucked so bad that when I didn't need it anymore I beat it with a baseball bat and threw it out. I'm not kidding, that's how much I hated that piece of shit. I've owned two Mac's since then and both of them have worked wonderfully. I still use PC's at work and at my mom's house and they still suck just as bad as they used to. My girlfriend is constantly cussing out her Dell, my mom's Compaq Presario is so freaking' slow you wouldn't believe it, and it's not that old. My stepfather co-owns a computer software company that designs statistical software, and his whole business is now in the process of switching to the Mac. Why? Because every single one of his programmers hate Windows! They spend so much time dealing with all of its security flaws and holes that they waste tens of thousands of dollars a year.

The whole compatibility thing is a myth. Unless you're networking you don't need the computers to be compatible, but guess what? They still are. You can network PC's to Macs. There's nothing you can do on a PC that you can't do on a Mac. And any software that you must have now that can only run on a PC (which is a rare thing, I assure you) is not a problem because the new Intel-based Macs can run Windows.

I see the same people all the time defend Windows like there's no tomorrow. And the next thing I know they're having some technical problem or their computer is in the shop or whatever. I just smile and go back to work on my Mac, which in over three years of intense daily use has never had a major problem at all.

Macs are not perfect machines, but Apple at least tries to put out a good product that's stable and elegant. That's a hell of a lot more than I can say for Windows, which is a half assed product that's always behind the Mac in terms of design.

which I've had for about a year. It's the first Mac I've ever had (though I used those Apple abominations they had back when I was in school). I gotta say, I'm a convert.

I had SO much trouble with my Dell laptop that I swore I'd never own a Windows based machine again. The damn thing froze all the time. It got viruses that flummoxed the newest updates of the anti-virus software (of which I tried many different brands). It crashed (and I mean, wipe the fucking hard drive and start over...crashed) 3 times a year. It literally fell apart (the screen fell off the base, on a laptop). Dell had to replace the ENTIRE FUCKING COMPUTER piece by piece because it was defective, until they finally gave me a new one. Rinse and repeat, every problem the old computer had, the new computer had also. And so, I have a Dell computer that I used for less than a year, in pieces, gathering dust under my bed.

Sure, some of the problems were Dell specific, but the fucking viruses and the crashing...that was all Windows. Meanwhile, my cute little Mac? Not one single problem yet. No viruses. No crashing. It gets slow-ish if I haven't turned it off for a few weeks, but a quick reboot fixes that. Was it expensive? Yeah...but I paid far more to "fix" the Dell than I did on the new Mac, so it's a fair trade-off.

I have an iMac G5 that I bought late last year - so, about 6 months old. I find it to be far slower on the internet than my 5 year old then low-end to middle of the road Dell that is on its last legs. This is using the same DSL line & modem & just switching the line between the two computers. (Nobody seems to be able to help me on that one - even on the Apple boards...I've fun both Safari & Firefox to similar effect.)

I've also found some things that are very counter-intuititive when it comes to the commands you need to find to execute them. Heck, it's sometimes a pain to just eject a CD or DVD.

And, it's a pain in the butt to not be able to right click on my mouse to get the Copy/Cut/Paste commands, etc. Yes, I know I can buy a new super-duper mouse & do that... but, it's a standard feature on even the cheapest of PCs. However, that's more my fault because I've been doing that for a decade+ on PCs.

That said, it does have some nice features and was not too much more expensive than an upgraded new PC.

There's an eject button in the upper right-hand corner of the keyboard... :shrug:

and, looking at the face of the button, it's not really obvious what it is for.

but now you know, so one problem solved! ;)

Of course, I am an idiot. :D

It's so damn intutive it's confusing, eh?

Just look at some CD or DVD players, and you'll see that symbol all over the place. :)

By the way, if you have the Apple Extended keyboard, you might want to try out some of the other buttons right next to the eject, they all take care of the volume.

My advice to most PC to Mac converts is, stop thinking of the most difficult way to solve a problem and try to think of the simplest. In nearly every case, Apple chooses to make the simplest solution their method, and it's really entertaining watching converts struggle with that concept. They are so used to things being obtuse and overly technical that the simple methods are never even a consideration.

:P

Normally, eject buttons are next to the slot where the CD or DVD is input - not in a separate location, unless it's on a remote.

Controlling the volume is easy enough without the buttons. The problem was that when I put some CDs or DVDs into the iMac, there was sometimes an on screen box that would come up with various controls on it (including play/stop/etc, as well as eject). Other times, the box would not come up when a CD or DVD was input. And, it could be the same DVD where the control box would come up sometimes, and other times it would not.

But, I learned something new today.

I think I understand what you're saying, and there is a logic to the madness. If you go look at the system preferences, you'll see an icon for CDs and DVDs. Open that and you'll get to choose how you want the computer to handle different types of discs.

If you put in a commercial DVD, the out-of-the-box preference setting is to have the machine be taken over by the DVD function, and it will start to run the DVD. A remote control-looking panel will come up, which has all of your dvd functions available to use. To hide and unhide the "remote", just hit the escape button (I think).

Anyway, don't be afraid to mess around with your preferences and settings. I guarantee you won't break anything, and you'll probably learn a lot.

:toast:

Also, you can just drag the disk icon to the trash and it will eject.

I think of deleting - as in, if I had dragged a CD or DVD to the trash, it would erase data, or dispose of it like trash.

And, when I've used "eject" or "open/close" buttons in the past, they are normally labeled as such. I've never noticed the symbol before in my life, as I've never had to - it's always been labeled as "Eject" or "Open" or similar.

since I just got my first mac and it's a laptop - however, I have a standard garden variety wireless minimouse I use w/ the laptop and the right-click works great.

Damn, man, you ought to be working the Vegas Strip with that routine! :rofl:

By the way, you really need to stop talking out of your ass - it gives you bad breath. ;)

:P

So, yeah, I've developed a distaste for them. :banghead:

The Macs in my HS sucked half the time too. Mac OSX is far better than any shit Bill Gates could produce and way better than the Macs you were probably using in HS.

Fucking Performa 6214..

:-)

They're like the Neanderthals of Macintosh.

so they were pretty recent. :hi:

The networked Macs froze all the time.

When I was in HS, we were using 10 year old Macs. They froze all the time. When I graduated, they split it between new Macs & Dells. My sister's there now and she says there's no problems with the Macs. She's a convert from PCs to Macs though, which she didn't admit until it came time for her to get her own computer over my iMac. She insisted she hated the iMac with a passion, but when the time came, she chose an iBook on her own.

Freezing problems stopped with that.

Maybe I'll be (and I think I speak for a group of others on this one) sold on your marvelous little technotoy if you were, I don't know, several thousand degrees less arrogant, self-righteous, over-defensive and insulting to non-Mac users. It's not just on this board, I've seen the Mac-arrogance in a lot of online places that are less modified and intelligent than this.

Frankly, I don't see what the fuck is so Holy Grail spectacular about owning a Mac over a PC, having used both of them. Maybe if I was a professional musician or a filmmaker, it'd be mandatory (I've made music on the PC for the past 4 years and I'm fine, not suffering that much, thanks). But I work in the banking/Capital markets area of financial development, and in all of my ten-year corporate history I've never even SEEN a Mac in use other than the M&P departments. I go with what's practical for my area of earning.

In the meantime, for home I'll get my own PC built and not give cash to Bushbot Mike Dell.

That something is 'better' is a matter of opinion, but it is not arrogant to say something is better if there are reasons for it and when we have been specifically asked for those reasons.

were so your rant is a bit misplaced. Just because people responded with their own opinion doesn't make them arrogant and self-righteous. Insulting? Hello pot, I have kettle on line one.

My Windows XP OP crashed only once or twice in the two years I've been using it.

My high school was (and still is) full of them and they froze up and/or crashed all the time. Windows XP has never crashed or froze on my PC.

Macs are good for middle-aged and older people needing a "beginner" compuer, but nothing more IMO. Apple is just good at getting suckers who have knee-jerk Anti-Microsoftism.

I'm also young, proficient in both Apples and PCs, and a photographer. I'm hardly a sucker. They last longer, they work better and they can do everything a PC can. If they're such a beginner computer, then how come major motion picture studios use them for video editing.

Guess what? The macs in my HS sucked too. They had been in school as long as I had. Macs running OsX 10.1 or higher are extremely stable and the new Intel Macs run XP faster than a comparable PC. So for $500 base you can get a computer that can run OSX AND XP without some emulation crap slowing the thing down.

Macs are great. I used to use them when I worked in print. Every action takes half as much time as a PC because of the way macs always have your next anticipated move set up and ready to go.
Love those macs!

And I use it all the time, although I'm using a G4 Mac at work at the moment.