Your comments, please? It's about guilt -- over "a string of pearls" ---

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In March 1960, I married a young resident doctor whom I had known only six weeks. I was nineteen years old and in college in California. Over midterm break, I returned to my home in Florida and "fell in love" with this man after my male cousin introduced me to him. He was handsome as all get-out and twelve years older that me. It seemed like the match was "made in heaven."

We set up housekeeping in a small apartment in Florida, and he was gone almost all day, every day, due to the intensity of the residency program. I began to spiral downward due to the realization that I had dropped out of college to become a wife. It was not a good time for me mentally.

My husband then was transferred to a hospital in New York state, and we went to live with his widowed mother in Westchester County, New York. Somewhere along the way, perhaps as a wedding gift, his mother gave me a very attractive single string of real pearls with a gold clasp. (They are probably not very valuable as estate jewelry, but I have worn them a few times over the years, and I even had them restrung several years ago.)

While in New York, I found out I was pregnant and became seriously depressed. Suffice it to say I was admitted to the hospital where I underwent electroshock therapy and then delivered a stillborn baby girl in November 1960.

My doctor husband left me and I later returned to Miami to establish residency, and then went back to college and divorced him for "willful and continuous abandonment."

I have contacted him twice in the ensuing years, mostly to tell him that I feel badly for what he had to go through. I spoke with him in 1983 in New York City while I was there on a training program. And I just felt compelled to touch base with him early this month just to see how he was. I called his office on Friday, June 2nd. He picked up the phone, and we had a quite delightful conversation.

He told me he has a wife and has been married for decades. He is 79 years old, still in pretty good health and practicing medicine a few days a week. The couple has two sons and they live in New Jersey. He is not active on the Internet, but is hoping to learn how to do email very soon.

Here's the dilemma: I wonder if it would be appropriate to send back the string of pearls to him at this time with a brief note. I've always felt that they belonged in HIS family, not mine. Now I could easily wrap the strand, give it to UPS insured, with an accompanying note and they would deliver them to his new office in New York City. I've always felt some guilt that his mother gave something to me which I really don't have any right to keep.

What do you think? And why do you think that way?

In peace,

Radio_Lady

since they belong in his family you sound perfectly willing to give them up. You might want to call or send a note first to expect them, or send them return receipt requested so you know that they arrive okay.

If you feel that they belong in his family, call him and tell him that. However, if you really don't want to, but you just feel you should, not having a "right" to them, well then I'd disagree. Gifts are given. They aren't leased with conditional ownership.

Just my opinion.

I don't know where she got them from -- perhaps from her husband, whom I never met -- or someone else. But this rather odd and guilty feeling has been in my mind for decades -- that I should not hold on to something of some value that I really think are a part of another family.

I have beautiful pearls from my present husband from Hawaii -- and it would give me more pleasure to know I had passed this strand of pearls back to this man to whom I was just briefly married -- and whom I really don't know -- to give to either his wife or his sons -- or???. It's just a gesture, I know.

In peace,

Radio_Lady

like an act of selflessness (even though you'll be alleviating guilt at the same time).

Seems like you have your answer. However, since you have a decent phone/communication relationship with him, I'd call and explain. Talk through it. A note, like e-mail, will be deciphered as the reader wishes (especially with your somewhat new knowledge that he has a wife, etc).

,,,much de Mauppesant?

I read it years ago in French class.

For those who are not familiar, "The Necklace" is a famous short story by Guy de Maupassant, in which an aspiring Parisian woman borrows and loses her rich friend’s diamond necklace. Afraid to own up to the truth, she takes out a huge loan and buys a replica to return to her rich friend. After twenty years of drudgery to pay off the loan, she bumps into her rich friend and finally confesses the truth, only to be told that the lost necklace was a fake.

Hi Radio_Lady,

If you feel strongly about it and you have spoken to him in the past, then he should understand the feelings with sending them back. It sounds like you need to release the necklace to release the happenings in the past? Since you have both moved on and he has children to pass them on to, I would let them go. I'm sure he would feel gratitude and respect for your decision to do so.

being "in the mood."

:hi:

He can perhaps give them to one of his children or grandchildren. Since there is no malice between the two of you, I think it would be appropriate.

I'm sorry to hear about what you went through all those years ago with your hospitalization. It's a shame that they didn't have as many options for depression in those days. That had to be a very difficult experience.

You're a special person, Radio_Lady. :)

I still struggle with occasional bouts of clinical depression, diagnosed when I was in my late teens. But luckily, I've had good support from mental health counselors, and had to endure occasional hospitalizations to re-balance my medications. I have also taken advantage of support groups, especially one that met weekly at McLean Hospital in Belmont, Massachusetts (where the well-known singer and songwriter James Taylor was once in residence!).

Plus, I have a lot of TLC from my family. All in all, I'm having a good life, and now that my biological children are in their mid-thirties, I hope they've dodged the genetic bullet they might have inherited from me.

i hate to be the grinch who stole all the good feeling here, but nothing is more unpleasant than being contacted by someone from your dead past who suddenly wants to prolong the contact and even make excuses to start sending you stuff!

it's awful, it's creepy

if a man had proposed this, i bet you'd all see it right away!

if she doesn't want the pearls, she should sell them (if she can) or give them away w.out any further contact w. the ex

It's really that simple. You believe they belong with him.

what does a 79 year old man want w. some pearls given to his ex wife 40 years ago?

pearls have almost no value, although they did have quite a bit up until the early 20th century, the story is told in the jewelry trade of the misfortunate man from manhattan who traded his $100,000 property for a string of pearls appraised at the same value -- this in the 1920s, i believe

the manhattan property was worth many millions by the 80s, when i heard the story, and is probably fabulous valuable today

the pearls are worth abt $10,000

and trust me, your pearls aren't even worth that much, get an appraisal, then when the jeweler gives you a bogus price, ask him frankly if he will purchase them for half that price

you've spent decades worrying about something not worth worrying abt, i've known several people over the years who had pearls "worth supposedly thousands" from their dad's service in japan in world war 2, not one was able to sell the pearls for anything

don't worry abt it

NOTHING is worse than being contacted out of my past by someone who wants to give me something or tell me something, i don't want to be bothered by their needs, i have my own life

i say let your ex be, seriously

the recipient of the contact feels stalked, well i did anyway

If it was in the family, sending it back to the ex is the right thing to do. Families pass on jewelry simply because of sentimental value, too. I'm sorry you have had negative experiences, but it doesn't sound like Radio_Lady is stalking. She just wants to send a necklace back that she feels really doesn't belong to her.

be right.

Goodness, I wouldn't want anyone to feel stalked! The brief conversation we had was bright and breezy that Friday afternoon. Hard to imagine he'd get that impression by receiving a small package from me.

As far as how he would value the contact, that would be up to him. I guess he could give the pearls to the Salvation Army if he didn't want to subject his family into some past history with me -- of which there is negligible or none.

I suspect if he felt stalked, he'd just say he doesn't want any further contact. I think he is mature enough to say so, and you are mature enough to back off if he does.

Tucker

Many years ago, my husband was engaged to a nurse in New England. She gave him her class ring as a token. DH was very immature and cheated on her regularly and his stepmother did her best to discourage the relationship. They broke up, he became engaged to a socialite who met his stepmother's approval. They broke up and he moved far away to continue his college education when the college he was attending shut down. He asked the nurse if they could patch up the relationship, and would she come with him, but she wasn't having any.

He still has the class ring and would like to return it to her. Of all the failed relationships that one collects over forty years, I believe he regrets his immaturity and lack of consideration toward her the most.

A class ring isn't very valuable in a monetary way, but it is something that most people would want back.

The string of pearls may not have a great monetary value, but they could have a sentimental value if they belonged to his mother.

Call him and ask him. It could be that she went out and bought them for you, in which case, they wouldn't have any sentimental value and you could release yourself from some unnecessary feelings of guilt.

If they were hers, he or his children might be glad to have them back in the family.

You both have moved on and it sounds like you both have forgiven each other for the stresses of the past. You are both remarried, apparently happily, so there is on reason for either of you to be freaked out or feel stalked by the contact.

call him and ask him, don't send an unsolicited package

she is? Class rings are of just sentimental value, as you say. Maybe a pawn shop would give him $10.00 or it. I'm sure she would appreciate having it back. Thank for sharing your story.

I liked your advice. I'm still thinking about it. I haven't decided exactly what to do yet.

In peace,

Radio_Lady in Oregon

saw her was in 1970. He has heard that she was married and divorced, but that has been many years ago too.

Maybe, I was hoping that she reads DU and would recognize the situation... however unlikely that would be. :)

if its an issue for her fuck what he thinks about it. He didn't exactly give a fuck about her 40 years ago, did he? Or anytime since for that matter.

i say let your ex be, seriously

You have a "right" to keep it, as it was a gift, but if it may have significance to his family, they would probably be quite glad to have it back.

I know if anyone had our family heirloom, I'd like to have it returned (it is a vintage ceramic fake dog poop, from before fake dog poop came in rubber...I am from a long line of pranksters).

Tucker

Also, maybe you'd like this antique Whoopie Cushion, made of the skins of many extinct whoopies (?) too. I was just going to put it in the "FREE" box at my next garage sale!

:sarcasm:

I think in your heart you want the pearls to 'go home' and home they should go. You are on amicable terms with this gentleman and so why not send them back while both of you are able to understand the sentiment in having them where they belong. He will most likely appreciate it very much.

You have a heart of gold.

aA
:hug:

:thumbsup: the gesture may even be utterly lost upon him, still, you may be seeking to 'tweak' his memory having held them for this long & that may be fine too, either way they represent a passage in time that may also be suggesting it's own closure via the very mind-image of them & knowledge of just where it is you have them put up...as well the possibility that the 'weight to memory ratio' is no longer sustainable = send them back

right to sell them. They were given to you ..they are yours. But send them to him anyway. They could belong to his family. And sending him happy thoughts and wishing him well will help you let go. You really never needed him. Really - you needed someone else. Someone who was there. A person working a sleep deprived shift can make mistakes too and marry when he isn't ready to be a family. Happens to lots of doctors. Close the circuit of pain. Send them back. Feel the joy.

You shouldn't feel guilt. He hasn't asked for them back. He obviously feels you deserve them or doesn't know about them... amongst other things.

Send them back. Send them back. Send them to the descendants and the people who will never know of your pain and the troubles you had as a couple. It will mean continuity to that family.. and it sounds like at some point in his life..he needed those messages of family and continuity.. so you could very well be helping them all out.. in the important ways.

Really - anything you were given by that family.. even an acorn..send it back. IMHO

I do, though, think that sending them back would be a wonderful gesture. Especially if their family weren't very well off that might be one of the few monetarily valuable items that his mother had, and thus of significant sentimental value as well, and they might very well be moved by your gesture AND by being able to give, perhaps, a grandaughter something that was her great-grandmother's.

What a story that belongs to those pearls! Wow!

Maybe this is part of the 12-step programs I have taken for episodes of love addiction in my life.

One of the steps is to try and make amends to people you feel you have harmed. I definitely feel I was enduring a tragic episode of depression -- a student at college, falling behind in my studies, not happy living in difficult circumstances in Los Angeles -- when I "cast my intellectual and sexual spell" on this fellow. He didn't know what hit him and soon we were off on this impossibly difficult journey together. I never meant to hurt him, but I am sure he went through his own private hell during our marriage and divorce.

By the way, if his mother were still alive, I would be send the pearls to her. But I looked her up on the Social Security Death Index, and she had passed away.

Have a great week, Rabrrrrr! It's excellent to hear from you!

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:eyes:

I just had to laugh.

they were a family heirloom? Did she give you some reason to believe they had significance in the family? Did they get handed down through the generations? If they did, then I'd say it would be the right thing to do to turn them over, but if they were a regular gift that she picked out for you personally, then I don't see the problem...you should keep them. Can you give more specifics?

However, my short-term memory over the months in 1960 and early 1961 was obliterated by drugs and electroshock therapy endured during hospitalization. I remember the treatments, playing whist with the female nursing aides, and the stillbirth of the baby on November 30, 1960. I never saw my husband or his mother again after I was confined for depression in the last months of my pregnancy.

I'm surprised that I even remember that my mother-in-law gave the string of pearls to me! (I've had two other husbands and two more mothers-in-law since then!)

were probably a regular gift without generational significance. After all this time, I would have guessed he would have asked you for them back by now if they did have family significance. So you have a few options, 1)Keep them as a gift 2)voice your concerns with your ex, it sounds like you have a decent relationship with him and let him confirm it for you and act accordingly.

Being that your memory of the situation is foggy and he probably doesn't remember them either, I would lean towards keeping them and putting it behind you. It's not like you're maliciously keeping them from his family, you genuinely received them as a gift and no one has asked you for their return after all these years. I also imagine that if the family asked for them back, you'd give them back without a fight.

think about this and respond. I am still thinking this whole situation over and trying to make up my mind.

In general, we are definitely moving into a "divestiture of possessions" mode! I guess that's appropriate for our ages -- I turned 67 on May 31, his 72nd birthday was June 23.

I told him -- no more jewelry! I'm trying to consign some pieces I have accumulated over the years -- but a lot of the Mexican silver is beautiful but unworn at this stage in my life. Plus, the bigger pieces set off the metal detector in the airports! I don't have time for the eBay thing, but wouldn't want these items to just go off to charity.

I would keep them because they were given to me by someone who cared about me enough to gift me with them. Sounds like you have unpleasant memories of that time of your life so why not hang onto one of the nicer things to come from that period?.

Your former mother-in-law may have bought them for just you, if so then they aren't a family heirloom that needs to be returned to the family. I would think if they were a family heirloom she would have told you that when she gave them to you. Or perhaps after the marriage ended.

My mother-in-law gave me several pieces of jewelry over the years. She let me know which were being "passed down" & which were bought for me. After my marriage ended I asked her if she wanted the family pieces back. She didn't want any of them returned as I have a daughter with her son so they will be passed to my daughter, and her daughter, in time. In fact I already gave her the best piece as part of her "something old" to wear on her wedding day.

Whatever you decide, you shouldn't feel any guilt over keeping a gift. It's not like you stole them.

They came to you from a time and a place in which they were a gift. They're yours and you should keep them.

but she has expressed the sentiment she alwyas FELT they belonged to his family

Two things:

1) Grow a backbone. This man did not treat you well - and you are still making excuses. No No No!

2) Keep the pearls... they were a gift and meant that way. Let them remind you of the good times.


Khash.

keep them then perhaps you could give them to charity ....it is kinda harsh the way Khash phrased it. But, you don't even remember HOW you recieived them...so it could not been that special. I know you want to do the right thing...

not clear if they were heirloom or "new" gift to you. Perhaps you should just ask him?

for the shuttle bus to take my husband and me to Newark Airport. I only expected to get his voice mail on a Friday morning. His answering service indicates that he is only working on Tuesdays and Thursdays. He was only there because he has moved his practice to another location on the west side of New York City.

Heavens, he barely remembered my maiden name when I called him on June 2nd! He is 79 and I think he probably has very few memories of me at all. He does remember that my father, who frequently played the violin, was "tone deaf"! Dad spared no one when he decided to play. You had to listen and smile, however badly the playing! We laughed about it!

Honestly, I don't think he will remember the pearls at all and I certainly didn't want to put him on the spot.
Most of the men I know never focused on jewelry.

I have to agree 100%.

who just lost her baby, and totally uprooted her life for him.

And YOU'RE feeling guilty??? :shrug:

I've been trying to figure out why Radio Lady is feeling guilty. And why the fuck she is apologizing to the ex-husband. It sounds like they rushed into a marriage that was clearly a mistake, but who was the older (and supposedly more mature person) in this scenario? He should be apologizing to her for not recognizing that his very young wife might be feeling a bit overwhelmed by quitting college, moving in with her mother-in-law in another state, getting pregnant, then losing the baby. Good Lord. He sounds clueless. He probably has absolutely no memory of the pearls anyway.

Radio Lady, give them back if it bothers you so much, but for cliff's sake stop feeling guilty about it and stop apologizing to a man who *should* be apologizing to you.

that his mother had given them to me as a familial gesture, and now it was time for them to go back into the family. I would also add that I hope they look lovely on his daughter's or granddaughter's neck.

another poster suggested he might feel stalked if you call him again. I doubt it (personally, I wouldn't feel stalked until three calls :-)), but you'd know that better than anyone here.

If you think calling him again wouldn't be painful for him, I think you should call him again and just say, casually, that you remembered a string of pearls his mother gave you. He knows how crazy you were at the time and you can't remember if they are a family heirloom or not. If they are, would he like them for one of his sons to give to his wife or daughter?

It sounds like you've made this necklace very important your mind by stewing about it for so long (and, they're a reminder of a very bad time in your life), but chances are, it won't be any big deal to him.

If so, then sending the pearls to him may hold meaning for him.

Otherwise, if it's about you and your feelings of guilt, then send them back with a note about why you're returning them. Just keep in mind in this view it would be all about you, and once gone from you, the pearls and any issues regarding them, become all about the receiver.

Every action has consequence that can be good, bad, or stalls as a moot point. Sending them back may cause a reaction in his life, possibly with his wife, that could be good, bad or indifferent. There's no predicting the consequence.

Personally, if I didn't want to keep them, for whatever reason, knew there was no sentimental value for the ex to experience should he receive them, I would give them to someone special in my life and pass the gift on.

No matter what your choice is about the pearls, am sure that since you are a dear, sweet and very intelligent woman, you will make the choice that's best for you. :hug:

I barely remember the wedding at all and have no pictures of the ceremony. I honestly don't remember the day in March 1960 when it happened. I was seriously disabled by depression and my parents should have had me hospitalized right then, rather than insisting I get married.

So much of the entire relationship has been forgotten. For example, I asked him earlier this month if "Blue Moon" was still his favorite song. He said, "Well, it was a very well-known song at the time..." and trailed off, clearly a detail I had misinterpreted.

Thank you so much for the nice compliment and thanks for responding.

In your heart you know it will feel right.

A lovely way to close the circle for you both.

Radio Lady, he treated you very poorly. Rushing into marriage is understandable for a 19 year old but a 31 year old man should have had more sense. He then essentially uprooted you, neglected you and then abandoned you after the death of your child! It's nice you could have a friendly chat with this man but there is absolutely no reason you should feel any guilt over having those pearls. You say you don't have any right to keep them - of course you do! They were a gift, given to you over 40 years ago - had anyone missed them, they probably would have contacted you or said something.

If it really means so much to you, send them back but what concerns me is your hanging on to this undeserved guilt. You even speak of what YOU put HIM through. If anyone should feel guilt, he should.

I'm a lifelong depressive, too (bipolar actually) and I know all about carrying enough guilt around to fit in a steamer trunk. And I know how easy it is to feel like a burden to those around you because of that depression. But I also know deep in my heart that I shouldn't feel like that - we accept our loved ones for what they are and we support them in their trials. Depression is like any illness - hard on everyone who has to deal with it. I don't want my family to feel guilty about their frailties or illnesses and I shouldn't have to feel guilty about mine. I should be able to count on them to be there and you should have been able to count on your husband.

There's my 2 cents, for what it's worth. And a hug. :hug:

a very sweet woman who is bipolar. I was shocked to find it out. My son, who had no mental health issues at age 36, knew about her condition, but she had only had one episode at the time they married in 1995. He chose not to tell his stepfather and me.

I have a very close relationship with her, and have urged her to stay on her medications just as I do. Although she is not biologically related to me, I hope her two sons are not bipolar, as I suspect my father had it, but was undiagnosed and untreated. My mother also was depressed, but anyone would be married to my father :sarcasm:

Anyway, I have no idea what the genetics are on depression and manic depression, but of course, I hope there is no problem there in future generations.

I think items such as this should stay 'within the family'. If you had children with this guy, then absolutely you should keep them and pass them on.

Not knowing if he has any children, there might be someone else in the family who might remember and truly treasure those pearls.

Not quite the same thing, R_L, but when my MIL passed, my children received nothing from her. Nothing. My husband, in his single years, had given her some very beautiful jewelry that would have been a nice keepsake for our children, (not me, I have my own), but his sister kept all of it.

I think it is nice for jewelry, whether or not it is worth anything to go to people who might look upon it fondly and remember something wonderful.

JMHO. I know you will do what you think it right.

sons with his present wife, whom he said he married in the 1960s.

Of course, all I have is the death certificate for the stillborn child I bore -- there are no living children from my first marriage.

I am sorry your sister-in-law kept all of your mother-in-law's jewelry. My SIL did the same thing when my husband's mother died in 1991. I don't know if there was really anything of value, because my husband never asked about anything, clothes, jewelry, other possessions. My mother-in-law had lived with my sister-in-law for years, and had a room in her home. All bank accounts were joint. As far as I recall, my MIL did not leave a will or a letter of instructions. There was a disbursement of money which we accepted graciously, but I have no idea how things were divided at the end.

The wonderful thing my mother-in-law DID do, towards the end she gave each of her two children a $10,000 gift while she was alive. I will always remember her generosity -- the money came at a good time when my husband was going through a period of unemployment.

RIP, Aida.

not only is it appopriate, it is as lovely a gesture as I can think of....OK this story has me blubbering

Thanks for your kind emotional response!

You have no reason to feel guilty. You did say, he left you...right? I would not give back the pearls, if it is out of a sense of guilt. You have nothing to be guilty about! What ever happened to "in sickness and in health"? I hate these stories of people leaving their loved ones because they are depressed. And, I am sorry if this sounds preachy. If you like the pearls, keep them! You deserve them, in my book, after his "willful and continuous abandonment."

Edit: typo

I guess it's not exactly guilt -- it's just a feeling, as I have explained before.

The pearl necklace is a choker style, pretty common in the 1960s, but I now have a long strand of pearls which I wear single, double, or even knotted, if you know what I mean. My husband bought them for me at the Honolulu airport when I mentioned to him that I wanted them!

I have probably worn the original pearl necklace no more than a dozen times in the past forty or so years.

I just need to decide what to do with it. Maybe this has more to do with the fact that a former lover of mine died earlier this year at age 80, then I learned my second husband, now age 70, will not see his next birthday as he has terminal lung cancer. I've been thinking a lot about "the finality of things" this year -- for example, I finally signed up to be an organ donor as instructed on my Oregon driver's license. It probably just goes with the territory when you get to my age.

it does make us more aware of our own mortality. I still wouldn't return the pearls. Now that I've read all the posts, I agree that it is better to "let sleeping dogs lie," so-to-speak.

your husband.

:hug:

have lived his "three score and ten" years and looks like that will be all. I did have the difficult thought that he won't be here for next Father's Day. His doctor has encouraged him to take a boat cruise this summer, rather than waiting for next year. Apparently, my ex-husband is also trying to self-publish a book of writings that he has been working on for a long time.

My daughter and son have both been to see their father, and my daughter might go once more in August and bring our five year old grandson with her.

She seems to want to do this, and we are all supporting her.

Life does have its moments, doesn't it?

(Photo of daughter and ex-husband)

I hope his passing will be peaceful.

... and returning them would help close off a chapter in your life, go ahead and do so. After reading the rest of this thread, I do see where people are coming from (and if you changed your mind and decided to keep the pearls, I don't see anything wrong with that either).

Just for a moment, pretend that you did return them. If you feel completely content about your decision, that's likely a good sign.

It would be one thing if you were using the pearls to try to get back in touch with him, but from what you've said, that doesn't appear to be the case. If you focus on the fact that they were from his deceased mother and that you've assumed they were a family heirloom, that would make it about her, and his family tradition, rather than about you. And the fact that he has kids (and possibly grandkids?) makes it easier -- he could just pass the pearls along, and not feel like he'd been put on the spot. If you are being brief and businesslike, and have no intention of trying to become part of his life again, I don't think it would come across as "stalking". His mother sounds like a very gracious person, and this seems like a positive and respectful gesture.

Good wishes! Sorry about your husband. My own parents are about your age, and I've noticed that they too have been interested in resolving past issues.

But it should be resolved in a couple of weeks and I'll report back.

Thank you for posting.

In peace,

Radio_Lady in Oregon

I am in no rush to make a decision.

Meanwhile, I am going to get the string of pearls appraised by a jeweler. If it is of significant value (probably not), I'd like to know. I've been told it may have some value as an estate consignment piece. Also, the piece is so old that it may need to be re-strung.

Thanks for all your inputs.

In peace,

Radio_Lady in Oregon