Cardinals pitcher makes ad opposing stem cell research.

I'm a Mets fan, and I can't believe we lost to the cretins who make up the Cardinals team.

Oh well, sometimes the best team doesn't win. It wasn't our best week.

I'm proud of my team, as players and as human beings. Our players did nothing to shame us all year long and they won the most games in baseball. On our side we had Carlos Delgado, who in his spare time off the field does stuff like oppose the war in Iraq, and works for justice. (He is the recipient of the Roberto Clemente award for his work with the impoverished and the homeless in Puerto Rico.)

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061024&content_id=1722344&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

On the Card's side we have Albert Pujols - the less said about his personality the better - and now, Jeff Suppan, who is taking out time from the World Series to make ads for the Repukes opposing stem cell research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/25/sports/baseball/25suppancnd.html?hp&ex=1161835200&en=34d29f629edabe09&ei=5094&partner=homepage

I hope the Tiger's kick the Cards ass to oblivion. They may have gotten some lucky bounces and they may have stumbled into the World Series, but the Cards suck!!!! Even if the manage to prevail in the series they will still suck.

That surprises me considering he has a child with Down Syndrome.

Pujols is just, from what I can see, an asshole, but it's not like he's an asshole for political reasons. He's an asshole because of other actions.

I mentioned Pujols along with the fact that Suppan is taking time out of his busy World Series schedule to work for the Repukes because they are on the same team.

It doesn't surprise me that a baseball player is working with the Repukes - a few years ago we had Curt Schilling schilling for the Repukes. It is more surprising when a baseball player is not working with the Repukes on their consistently immoral causes.

I certainly didn't wish to imply that Pujols is against stem cell research. Maybe he is; maybe he isn't. Personally I suspect that Pujols main biotech factor doesn't involve genetics so much as molecular signalling, not that he seems sophisticated enough to know one way or the other about the deeper implications. I don't think he's quite as bright as Delgado.

For the record, Down's syndrome, while a genetic disease, has little to do with stem cell research. It's a trisomy, as a far as I am aware is not a target of stem cell treatments or approaches.

...it wasn't immediately clear what Pujols was or wasn't in relation to Suppan. Stem cell research absolutely could have profound impact on
Down Syndrome. Have a look at the below article, which discusses this very fact. It's a quick read.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DED/is_7_22/ai_83437292

Probably Pujols isn't either, not that it would necessarily matter.

Thanks for the info.

It's caused by a chromosomal abnormality. It's not something that could be treated with stem cell therapy.

But I think we lost because we ran into some hot pitchers on the Cards (Suppan included).

Having said that, it just boggles the mind how ANY person from any walk of life (besides billionaires and fundie TV Evangelists) could be a GOPologist.

And yes, I am proud of Carlos!!!! He is a good man, indeed.

It's BASEBALL - most of them didn't go to college and they're all multimillionaires. Many of them are from fundy backgrounds. It's not a shock that the Cardinals happen to have one of them on their team. What is kinda disingenuous here is the implication that the Cardinals are somehow more evil/rightwing/assholish/fundy than any other team in baseball. Do the Red Sox suck because Schilling made sure to campaign for Bush right after the Sox won the World Series?

I'm more than sure there are Republican rightwingers who play for the Mets. In fact, I know there are! Carlos Beltran signed a letter written by 24 pro athletes endorsing Bush in 2004:

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/bush/bush102104pr.html

So much for the moral superiority of the Mets. :eyes:

If you want to dislike individual players for their politics, fine; I'm certainly disappointed with Jeff Suppan. But those who live in glass houses... etc. Show me a team that DOESN'T have Republicans on it and I'll concede your point. Until then, trying to make this into a "Cardinals are Republicans/Mets are Democrats" analogy is just weak.

who in professional sports is on which political side, because owners and the general sports sub-culture discourage politics. But you notice when an athlete does go on the political record, it's almost always on the right.

Since so few do this, it's not an indicator of the politics of sports, but it does tell us something about the society of sports. Most baseball players do go to college now, as do most other pro athletes, but they aren't exactly loaded with "egghead" classes, either in college or high school. They also have people "helping" them at every turn — parents, of course; coaches; teachers who either go along with or succumb to the pressure from sports to let student-athletes skate; and later, agents.

Athletes have to make few decisions on their own, so thinking outside their sport's box is not a requirement. And we all know what happens when people who don't think go into the voting booth.

Yeah, probably most of them aren't the brightest crayons in the box. Probably most of them are rightwing because they don't do much thinking for themselves. Probably many of them are assholes because they're rich jocks.

But you know what? When I'm watching the game, I don't *care* if they are smart, or liberal, or even nice. I care that they can throw a ball, or hit a ball, or catch a ball. That's it.

Making baseball more complicated than that defeats the entire purpose of the game. It's not about the players and their individual political leanings or personal charm. It's about the GAME.

Yeah, it's a big bonus when you find out your favorite player is a great guy or a liberal. (or both!) But to base my enjoyment of the game on those factors would be self-defeating and would probably mean I'd never enjoy baseball ever again.

And people can say what they want about Pujols and his cockiness, but his work with Down's Syndrome kids isn't something a self-absorbed asshole would do.

Sigh. I need to go to bed.

I don't even think often of ballplayers as individuals. Yeah, I know stuff like Maddux throws junk and works fast and Saito throws a slider nobody can hit and Garciaparra is likely to bust up a game in the ninth and he's married to the hottest soccer player EVarrr. But those are all elements of the ball club.

And that's how the ballplayers themselves think of it. They can be nine kinds of asshole, but when they put that suit on, all that matters is winning the ball game.

He refused to stand during "God Bless America" to protest the illegal war in Iraq - and he did so as early as any of us here felt that way. He took a lot of flak for it too.

The two Carlos's are best friends. According to Beltran, from what I read, Delgado talks mostly politics in private. I'm sure the grown up Carlos (Delgado) is working the younger Carlos (Beltran) and helping him to see the light. Beltran's changed since Delgado showed up, maybe politically as well.

The presence of Carlos Delgado on the Mets makes the Mets morally superior to the Cardinals. :bounce: :rofl: Next year we will have morally superior pitchers (uninjured) in the playoffs and if - if they're not too busy campaigning against choice - the Cardinals are there, we will conclusively demonstrate that we are the better team.

;-)

I am rooting for the Tigers!!!!! I would even watch the series, except I already watched way too much Fox during the playoffs. (In fact, the playoffs represented my entire exposure to Fox this year.)

All joking aside, good on him. I still maintain that Pujols deserves kudos for his work with kids with Down Syndrome, even if he is a cocky athlete. I don't know any of the Cardinals' players personal politics besides Suppan's, and I'd vastly prefer if he'd kept his private. x(

wingers? Well, I'm not much of a Cardinals fan (I am supporting them in the World Series only because they are the NL team) so it doesn't surprise me. Given how baseball is a religion in St Louis I can see Suppan coming out against stem cell research swaying some who have given it little thought.

Riding my scooter around St Louis County on my way home from work, I do see more NO on 2 (stem cell research) signs than I do of YES on 2 signs. I think the folks in the pro stem cell camp were caught by surprise that the anti choice camp would get involved in the fray. The antis have weekly meetings (called church services) where their forces can be mobilized by their ministers and priests.

Also, I think Albert Pujols considers himself a born again Christian so it would not surprise me if he was against stem cell research as well.

I hope they kick his ass. If they ever play again. This rain is too much.

or his fastball for that matter.

Cards are going to win this thing and prove they are the best team this year

OK, he opposes stem cell research. If you're watching sports for the political angle, you REALLY need a life.

I include politics in everything. This is the age of Bush. If you're watching sports to turn you brain off, you need a life.

I'd respond, but what's the point? People like you are so lacking in social skills, it's a waste of time.

It's a notable portion of my personality. I am, as you say, with your wonderful perceptual ability and profound insight, one of "those" people.

I probably would benefit from having your lessons social skills, but I would hardly want to waste the time of someone quite as esteemable and balanced as you are. I hope you didn't waste too much time reading this post, since I'm sure there are many people hanging, with bated breath, for your fine discernment and judgement.

The Cardinals have ONE GUY who espouses a belief in which you don't agree (and neither do I for that matter). The Mets have ONE GUY who espouses a belief in which you agree (as do I). So, you condemn the Cardinals for their ONE GUY and lionize the Mets for their ONE GUY. Admit it, you're a fan of a team that got beat and you're pissed.

Edited to remove language I'd regret later.

Personally, I think the Cardinals team is chock full of assholes, and the Mets team is chock full of good guys.

:rofl:

The Cardinals are the worst team to be in the World Series in decades, and that's true even if they win the World Series. Many were wondering near the end of the regular season whether the Cardinals would get into the playoffs with a losing record. The playoff system dilutes the degree to which a championship reflects skill. That was true back in 1973, by the way, when the weak team in the Series was the Mets.

I am pissed that the Mets lost a series to such a group, but let's face it, because of injuries, the Met's put up started three games with pitchers who spent part of the year in the minors and still took it to the bottom of the ninth in a seventh game.

Statistically, if it makes you feel better, we should expect baseball players to be assholes. They're rich, pampered and have usually lead lives during which they've been the center of attention and considerable fawning. Jeff Suppan probably has the intellectual depth of a lemon, but there are probably few people who have ever been in his presence who have told him as much. It's more surprising when baseball players are not assholes. I think the Mets are better than average in the personality department, and that the Cardinals are worse than average.

Given the Cardinals capacity for collapse - the Houston business was almost one of the most spectacular collapses ever - I'm not ready to count the Tigers out, and I'm rooting for them. We should state that both World Series teams showed an ability to collapse this season, though one has more reason to pull for the Tigers not repeat that flaw.

Go Tigers!!!!! All the Tigers need is another three game losing streak from the Cardinals.

Please don't feel restrained in the use of language. You can curse like a sailor around me. I'm a Mets fan, after all. ;-).

Ooooooooooookay.

BTW, Beltran is still a Bushbot.

No wonder Beltran struck out in the bottom of the ninth with bases loaded. If in fact, he's a Repuke, failing with the whole deal on the line would be consistent with his political philosophy.

When Delgado straightens out his ass, God will be on his side and the next such occassion will result in a grand slam, wherein the good guys (the Mets), as opposed to the bad guys (the Cardinals), win.

On the other hand (and to be sure, I'm speaking as an atheist with no real insight into the matter), maybe God doesn't give a shit about baseball. If He or She did, the Mets would win every year.

;-)

At least according to this book I saw at Barnes and Noble called "The Bad Guys Won!" about the 1986 Mets.

;)

They were bad guys. It's probably because of the guy they got from the Cardinals, Keith Hernandez, who was probably not a good influence on the younger players. ;-) I'll say this for Whitey Herzog, he was man enough to trade away that problem.

I don't know though, it's probably true that guys like Strawberry and Gooden and Mitchell would have gotten into trouble without any help from ex-Cardinals.

Too bad they didn't have an equivalent of Carlos Delgado around. Somehow I think Carlos Delgado will be a better influence in the future than Keith Hernandez was. Delgado might have been a better guide for Strawberry's unrealized talent, and maybe Dwight wouldn't be in jail, like he is. I don't know though, if Delgado could have saved the lives of Mitchell's girlfriend's cats.

But let's be honest, it's probably the case that without Keith Hernandez, the 1986 Mets might not have been as good as they were for that year. Mets fans thought Hernandez was a steal at the time, and, at least on the short term baseball level, he was. Of course, it's also probably true that the Mets would have had produced more World Series appearances in the 1980's and 1990's if they had someone else at first base.

I couldn't care less about either team. But I have to say that my first reaction to that ad was "I hope you fucking lose. And I hope that it's all your fault."

Why? Because stem cell research is a no-go area for me. I know one too many people that would benefit from it. If you're against stem cell research, then to me, you're supporting the needless suffering of thousands of people.

And given that, I don't want the guy to be happy. So sue me. I want his ass to suffer too.

I do realize it's not the most mature reaction in the world. I also realize that there are Cardinals players and fans who really deserve to be happy.

I simply can't look at that guy and cheer for him.

To be fair, this decidedly immature reaction doesn't just affect the Cardinals. I also won't support Patricia Heaton's...um...career. And Kurt Warner can bend over and kiss my white ass. And frankly, I didn't even recognize the other people in that ad, so I'm not too worried about supporting them in any way.

So yes, my complete and utter indifference towards the World Series has now tipped in favor of Detriot. Really not so much in favor of Detroit as against the success and happiness of the one Cardinal player.

Again, not a mature reaction. But there it is anyway.

n/t

kept his politics to himself until AFTER he left the Huskers.

:cough: all you want

I gave up agreeing with everyone on the planet a long time ago. There are a lot of selfish, immature assholes in this world. That said, MY happiness about my favorite team's success outweighs whatever personal happiness any player might feel.

In short, I would love for all the members of the teams I support to feel like I do, but that's never, ever going to happen. So, I cheer for my own happiness.

broke a leg.

I honestly don't know.

The good thing about really only caring about college sports is that they CAN'T be on a paid political ad.

Because the thing is, I don't really care what he believes. I wouldn't even care if he just sorta talked about it in an interview.

My problem is that he's on a commercial that's so full of complete and utter bullshit that it makes me ill. And that commercial is telling people to vote against something that could save thousands of lives.

I guess I've just completely fucking had it with Republican morons. Believe what you want, but when you start feeding other people your lies and your hatred, I just can't support that shit anymore. Even only superficial support.

I have not read the constitutional ammendment that has been proposed in MO.
Hopefully someone here has read it and can comment on the claims made about it being in support of human cloning.

Stem Cell research is one thing. But Human Cloning is not something this society is ready to deal with.

the ad in question is very specifically against stem cell research.

I don't think the word cloning even comes up. Which, given how full of complete bullshit this ad is, if there was a cloning component to the amendment, I am SURE they would have brought that up.

he isn't the brightest bulb in the lighthouse. Everyone in the stadium except for Suppan himself knew Manny was conceding the run, and Suppan got his dumb ass thrown out anyway during the worst example of baserunning I've ever seen at any level.