Well, lookee here. Simon (American Idol) disses Dylan.

"January 10, 2007 -- IN a snub that will have Bob Dylan fans blowin' in the wind with rage, Simon Cowell has come out bashing the beloved folk legend as a dull singer who's not as talented as perky pop princess Kelly Clarkson. "Do I prefer Kelly Clarkson's music to Bob Dylan's? Yes. I've never bought a Dylan record. A singing poet? It just bores me to tears," Cowell tells February's Playboy. The acerbic "American Idol" judge adds: "I've got to tell you, if I had 10 Dylans in the final of 'American Idol,' we would not be getting 30 million viewers a week. I don't believe the Bob Dylans of this world would make 'American Idol' a better show." The 47-year-old Brit, who begins his sixth season Tuesday with the smash Fox talent contest that made Clarkson a winner in 2002, says he knows a lot of people think he's a big jerk for his acerbic, in-your-face opinions - and admits they may be right. "Based on public opinion, yeah, I am. If half the people think I'm a hole, then I'm half a hole." "

I KNEW there was a reason I never watched that show, not even for 10 seconds.:puke:

And I'm also glad I haven't spent a cent on Playboy in at least thirty years (if ever) either. Who gives a shit what Simon thinks.

Well, not this article, but they often do.

Some pretty controverial stuff that nobody else near the mainstream would touch.

Actually I should look for this piece to see if they treat Cowell like the asswipe he is. That's a distinct possibility.

It's a pretty worthwhile magazine, all in all.

Hey, you got a link for that? I want to rant about it on my blog. :)

http://pool.dylantree.com/phorum5/read.php?1,728635

Interesting discussion there. If you're not familiar with that board, watch out... it's not moderated AFIK so there's mucho sarcasm and lots of phony posters.

you've missed several interviews with Dylan himself.

This one from 1978 is awesome:
http://www.interferenza.com/bcs/interw/play78.htm

I will be reading that with much interest. I just glanced at it for now, and Dylan appears to be speaking sincerely.

as are many throughout the piece. Weird to see him being referred to as "old" in 1978, though.

The first one I've seen where he is sincere. Kudos to the the interviewer for asking such great questions and being so in synch with Dylan.

Brilliant is a word that is overused, but if there is one person on the planet the word applies to, it's Dylan.

but disses Dylan? Christ. There's no hope for some people. I'd actually go so far as to say Clarkson's songs are really good, relative to other modern radio-friendly pop, but to in any way value anything done by anyone who has ever appeared on American Idol -- up to and including the judges and guest stars -- over Bob Dylan's ouevre is rank idiocy.

Cowell's problem is that he's looking for cash, not talent.

At least that's my impression, based on all the ads I see, invariably showing Cowell dissing some poor, untalented person.

This is what we've come to.

relative to other radio-friendly pop singers.

But relative to Bob Dylan? No, I don't think so.

Answer THAT will ya

I vaguely recall hearing about something like that.

Would that be Justin as in Timberlake?

And I assume people actually paid to see it. Unbelievable.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0339034/

See info above.

Everyone was just sure that they had something going on so Simon's company rushed this bit if cinematic magic out to take advantage of it.

It is REALLY REALLY bad. So bad that I asked for it for Christmas.

I could go on and on about it but there is a scene near the end where they have split up. Kelly, of course, is walking along the white beach late at night and singing and who should appear walking down the sidewalk but..... yep you guessed it JUSTIN!!! She asks him where he is going (walking mind you) and he says, "Oh just going to the airport"

IT is REALLY bad. So bad that it was going to go right to video but some sponsors demanded that it at least be shown in theaters. It was in theaters for 29 days-shortest run ever for a full length release.

Well done, Simon. I know it's too much to ask, but I hope he lost his shirt on that "cinematic magic".... thanks for that great term!

THAT scene!

I got the line a bit wrong but he is WALKING TO THE AIRPORT

It's at the 2:30 mark than watch the star power take over

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCJDo3vbv8

Whoda thunk? :shrug:

Kelly Clarkson is really talented, even still. Whoever picks songs for her is a genius.

I love this one, "Because of You"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqj-n0IG1Ik


Still and all, the dude is honest about who and what he is, there is really nothing wrong with that, it takes all kinds.

I really pay as little attention to him as possible, but in this world he's unfortunately unavoidable.

The biggest problem I have with him, and with the show, is that its success is a testimony to the shallowness of our culture.

I think it's a testimony to the bottleneck in the pop industry...so much promotional $$$ being but into a handful of pop stars. I don't know if they are trying to save bucks or what, but these teenaged female human franchises that litter the landscape lately, like Duff, Lohan, Hilton, etc. People are sick of it and want authenticity, and I think that's in part why that show is successful. It's like a human drama. Everyone knows that there is little room at the top, and only those who have the advantages or get the breaks for the most part make it. Most fall by the wayside. I think people kind of identify with the 'wayside fallers' that are given a chance on that show, they can relate it to their own missed chances in their lives.

That's a point of view I've never heard, or thought of, before. Certainly far more optimistic than mine.

I gotta admit, it makes sense.

I will not post the same LBN that you did
I will not let myself
Call anyone a lurking Freep
I won’t deride your low post count
(It’s only three)
I've learned the hard way
To never let it get that far

Before DU
I never heard of Philip Parlock
Before DU
I really thought that Tweety was nothin’ but a cartoon bird
Before DU
I found it hard to trust not only Bush*, but everyone around him
Because of you
That’s still the case

I start a thread
And it's not too long before it sinks like stone
I cannot kick
Because I know that's bad form in your eyes
I've written posts
that say “hey gang, can we impeach him now?”
But how can he be impeached
When he wasn't elected to start with?

Before DU
I only lurked on the AAR boards
Before DU
I didn’t know a Turd Blossom from a hole in the ground
Before DU
I found it hard to trust not only Bush*, but everyone around him
Because of you
That’s still the case

I heave a sigh
I hear Bush lie every time that he speaks
He’s not so dumb
‘Cause Dubya coined the term “strategery”
I’d rather we had anyone else
Someone who “feels our pain”
But now I type in the middle of the night
“Bush thinks he is king!”

Before DU
I never wondered if my vote was counted
Before DU
I thought that moran was spelled M-O-R-O-N
Before DU
I thought The Trouble With Harry was a Hitchcock film
Before DU
I yelled at my TV far less frequently
Before DU
I never read anything so hugh, I’m series!!!1!
Before DU
I was afraid

Before DU
Before DU

:rofl:

:rofl:

:rofl:

This is freaking brilliant! If it never had it's own thread it needs one.
You should post the youtube video for her song so people know the tune.

:rofl:

hysterical.

It was my 1000th post.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/soonerhoosier/7

I wish we could have a DU singer record that. I know there are lots of people around here who can sing. It could be the new DU theme song. It's certainly apt.

:applause:

anyone who should want to record it has my complete approval.

That's really, really good.

Thanks.

:toast:
Glad you enjoyed it.

And idgie's right. We gotta have it as a DU theme song.:thumbsup:

:applause: :applause: :applause: :yourock:

In fact, they all are.

I've always preferred artists who write their own material (well, excluding some obvious exceptions, like the Supremes). Kelly Clarkson is really, really obnoxious. And who's the grey-haired guy who did an almost unlistenable Chevy ad?

Who even watches American Idol? It's so brain dead.

But apparantly a lot of people watch the show. Which verifies for me that a huge segment of our population is, in fact, brain dead.

I think she's very talented. So was Ruben Stoddard, and Tamyra Gray, and Latoya London, and alot of those early contestants. I don't buy their stuff, but I did enjoy the show when it first came out. I don't watch it anymore, but I don't know why people would think the singers aren't talented.

this is Kelly's first song
A Moment Like This:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9BOCxFqle8

alot of people don't realize it is her singing this song even though they've heard it. I always thought it was Faith Hill until I found out. I love the fact that she refuses to have plastic surgery or lose enough weight so that she would be more fashionably skeletal, and she's openly stated her refusal to do those things, which is pretty risky and rare. All in all I think she's a good egg and it's a shame there aren't more pop singers like her.

She just doesn't seem very original to me, which is what sets geniuses apart from people who are just good singers. I'll include that Josh Broban or Brogan or whatever his name is in that group. Good voice, nothing else to set him apart. With Dylan, you get a persona, you relate to the material. Not so the AI breed.

that she is a great role model for young girls, thus far, anyway. She's saying "I have a big nose, a flat chest, big thighs and junk in my trunk, and I'm not gonna let a surgeon cut on me."

That is incredibly rare right now out there in the pop world. I don't know how long it will last, but I'm glad she's a visible alternative to the bleached and plastic models they keep pumping out, plus she can sing most of them under the table.

Of course Dylan is a brilliant writer and there will never be another one, they are just in different categories. I would also say that the reason Clarkson is the way she is and looks the way she does made it less likely that she would have ever gained fame through any other vehicle except something like American Idol. Had she gotten a contract before her exposure they'd have done all kinds of things to alter her looks to make her 'marketable'. This way they didn't because they wanted her recognized as the girl on that show, so they left her alone. She actually reminds me of Linda Rondstadt a bit, and the same things have been said about her, that she had great vocal talent but no originality.

Anyway, Frank Sinatra didn't write his own material either, nor did Dean Martin. I'd still rather listen to them any day than almost any Bob Dylan song.

Well you did say "almost".

Here's one you might prefer..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfJO6_lk-lM

I'd still rather listen to Frank and Dean most of the time.

It really is okay for people to have different tastes.

it's fine for people to have different musical tastes.

I like Frank and Dean too. A lot. I just have a very strong preference for people who, like Dylan, write the songs they perform, and have something worthwhile to say.

He has grown immensely as a songwriter in the last 25+ years. He'll never be a true poet, but he does have important things to say.

Two songs by Dylan that I will always listen to when they come on: Tangled Up In Blue and Someday Baby.

I like John Mellencamp a lot.

Tangled Up in Blue is a very good song. But honestly Someday Baby is just about my least favorite song from Modern Times. I guess it's played a lot on the radio, and I do like it, but the rest of that album is so much better, at least for me.

But I own the album. It is the one and only Bob Dylan album I have.

Of course, that IS why I said I'd rather listen to Frank or Dean than "almost" any Dylan song. I can't listen to his voice for too long.

I like Someday Baby because of its catchy-yet-bluesy nature.

I can't listen to Dylan for too long, either. It's not his voice, though, it's the way he forces me to THINK. My brain gets fried.

I saw Dylan in concert twice after Modern Times came out. They did Nettie Moore at both concerts, and both times, they made me cry, they did it so beautifully. If you like that song, you might want to check out the live versions. Ain't Talkin' also.

A sardonic Brit who exalts mainstream crap tastes. For Hitchens it's Bush, for Simon it's Kelly Clarkston or whatever karaoke pop star du jour they're marketing that season. I love a nice singing voice, but if that's as deep as your appreciation of music goes, you're fucking shallow.

the biting wit that is acerbic but if they are not emotionally demonstrative while it is going on then it kind of slides in and gets you to laughing before you can stop yourself. Americans can't get away with that, we emote too much in our speech for it to sneak through under the radar.

But the truth is that Kelly Clarkson is a classically trained singer and she has really good pipes. She's no Britney Spears. It drives me nuts that people are so quick to dismiss things or people out of hand just because of what they are associated with.

I like your comment on how Americans can't get away with what the Brits can. I think you're absolutely right.... any British humor show verifies it.

And I also like Kelly's singing. I've heard her singing, without knowing who it was and liked what I was hearing. A lot. Unfortunately her association with a horrible show prevents me from ever becoming a fan.

Now, if she had the guts to publicly dissassociate herself with it, I'd become a HUGE fan.

I've seen video of her saying she was trying to get away from that association. As far as I know she doesn't have any association with it any more. But still, I'm not one to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Maybe I'll become a fan after all.

I probably shouldn't have used her as an example. Most of the kids on that show can sing and I appreciate their talent. And there have been stars who have done that show, like Stevie Wonder, that I absolutely love.

But it's his need to piss on someone like Bob Dylan or anything outside of the pop mainstream that just galls me. And I can just visualize some other moron who can't appreciate someone like Dylan pointing to the "expert," Simon Cowell to legimate their own superficiality ("See he doesn't get it either"). I guess that's what bothers me about it. It's the kind of arrogant mentality that says I'm more sucessful than you because I make more money, or, I don't know, Christina Aguilera's latest album sold more copies than Bob Dylan's, so she's "better." Or the West is better than the Islamic world so we ought to inavde their country and give them western democracy and free market capitalism. Ya know?

This was Cash's response:

:D

Johnny's THE MAN!

RIP.

At Folsom Prison is one of my favorite albums, too. :thumbsup:

if only they were more like Clay Aiken (after his makeover). Paris Hilton wouldn't be caught dead star-fucking either one of them. So they're worthless. Nobody I know has any of their songs as a ring tone. :sarcasm:

Simon's probably just got a vendetta against the world from back when all the boys in his hood teased him about the Cliff Richard and Olivia Netwon John posters all over his bedroom wall. Back when everyone else was into Led Zeppelin or the Who or the Sex Pistols, he was walking around humming the chorus to "Suddenly." Simon sucks.

Good post. Simon does indeed suck.

In fact, if the truth be told I bet the whole reason he became a promoter of boy-bands is that when he was growing up all the boy bands like the Beatles were too busy playing instruments and writing their own music to dance around together looking all cute.

And I'll include Dylan too. :puke:

THAT IT'S ALL TASTELESS!

TACKY!

TRAILER TRASH WITH A MICROPHONE!

geez simon -- if you take it seriously -- and compare tacky greats with real art -- then you are a waste of time.

:eyes:

through Clarkson and Underwood.

It's kind of hard now to dismiss AI totally out of hand when "legitimate" established performers offer praise to the two biggest selling winners on the show.

he was an inspiration to jimi hendrix in more than one way: jimi was purported to claim that having heard bob dylan sing, he figured, "if bob dylan can do it, anyone can."

Jimi's voice wasn't what what made him great, and Dylan's voice is certainly not his greatest asset either.

and would face away from everyone when he sang. It sucks because if the truth be told he was really the first rapper, so he was really innovative. I don't know why that connection hasn't been made more. He sang in more of a spoken-word style than anything. I mean, is this singing, or is it rapping?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5TczkLw2H0

Forget Snoop-Dog and Nas...Jimi was the first.

crosstown traffic probably foremost among those in terms of accessibility. i don't know about rapping. i'm thinking about his live performances or tracks like "hear my train a 'coming" or "red house."

he did sing, often matching his vocal parts with his guitar. didn't sing very well, but neither did dylan. but i think people don't like either of them solely for their singing (or maybe they do).

it's way more powerful than talent, like someone mentioned above. I mean, they have that persona where they are totally unique and they are the whole package. Dylan is even more than that I think because of his writing, he's like a musical Jesus Christ, and they are so rare that to compare anyone to him is probably doing both parties a disservice

1965 Dylan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-xIulyVsG8

Dylan may have recorded something rap-like even earlier. I have heard him "rapping" in a 1961 Carnegie Hall concert performance.

I guess it is a really old form.

I wish that someone would write a book and do a chronology of it.

Mostly because we don't have recordings of anything until very recently, in relative terms.

For all we know, the earliest songs of our cilvilization might have been rap performances, don't you think?

But it would be fun to try! I have some Robert Johnson recordings somewhere.. betcha ole Robert did some rapping.

By the way... thanks for helping to make this thread so interesting. I always find your posts informative, at the very least. :-)

with "Subterranean Homesick Blues," which has often been cited as the first example of the genre.

I linked to the video from Don't Look Back... something I watch at least once a week.

And he knows it.

Cowell is really good at what he does, but his pop money machines shouldn't even be compared to what Dylan does. He is just playing into the myth that music is music, and it's not. Too many people get wrapped up in the "my music is better than your music" bullshit and they don't open up to the fact that it is all different and speaks in different musical languages.

Thanks for the reminder that it's important to be open to all kinds of music.

I know that when ever I am (open), I almost always discover something new that I like.

:applause:

...I would easily pick Dylan. At least Dylan is an original

That's right, Playboy. I see Carrie Underwood going first, probably after her 3rd album sinks like a stone, unless one of the also-rans who try to milk their 3 minutes of Idol "fame" are hungry for attention. Come to think of it, maybe Katherine McPhee's people are looking at possible angles to portray a Playboy centerfold spread as a positive affirmation. "She used to have an eating disorder, but now look at how high her self-esteem is!"

Fucking idiot.

so there. Talentness, snippy twerp.

n/t

Don't listen to Beatle wannabees...listen to THE BEATLES!

John Lennon? Nope.

Score another one for Oasis.

The fact that Cowell takes Clarkson over Dylan just confirms for me that "American Idol" is for the tone-deaf and musically unadventurous.

I much prefer hearing other people, who CAN sing, do his songs.

He has written many great songs. I just don't enjoy his voice or the way he phrases his notes. I'm sorry, but I greatly prefer hearing his songs being performed by talented singers. If other people enjoy listening to him sing, I'm fine with that.

Dylan bores me to tears, too. He's a dull singer for sure, if not a lousy one. I also never saw the supposed "brilliance" in his songwriting, either. Sorry.

you think he's a lousy singer, and so you haven't listened to enough of his songs. Nobody seriously claims he's a great singer, although his very early acoustic stuff shows a really nice voice.

If I'm right, you might try listening to some of the tunes on Modern Times and Love and Theft, his two most recent albums. Judging from your musical preferences, you just might like it a little.

Here's a sample:

http://www.slate.com/id/2155056?GT1=8900

Here's an older live performance you might appreciate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VututUoGaQ0

So who is a brilliant songwriter, in your opinion?

(by the way "dull" is a word I have never heard associated with Dylan before)

Truth be told, I'm not sure I think anyone is a "brilliant songwriter," I think there are good ones who occasionally write brilliant stuff. Since my taste leans heavily to harder rock, I'd point to rock operas like 2112 and Operation Mindcrime as examples of stuff that strikes me as brilliant. A few of the lesser-known songs from 70's legends such as Led Zeppelin and The Who rank up there, too.

I'll look at your links, though, and thanks for taking the time to provide them instead of just flaming away. I'm not sure my mind will be changed when I see what you posted (can't do it from work), but it will be open.

As I and others have said in this thread, being open to all kinds of music is really a good thing, and it looks like you agree.

I'm really not trying to make anyone a Dylan fan, just trying to point out some stuff of his that different folks might like.

By the way, I do think some of The Who's songs are brilliant. Not so sure about Led Zeppellin tho... the constant playing of Stairway on the radio has biased me against them, unfortunately. I really like some of their hard blues stuff, however.

could happily live the rest of my life without ever hearing "Stairway" again. That also goes for "Rock & Roll," "Heartbreaker" and "Living Loving Maid." According to most estimates I have 35-40 years left, and I actually hope I can live them out without hearing any of these songs again. Some of their more obscure stuff, though...wow.

See now... here we are, a couple of people who have open minds about music, and how quickly we can find something to agree on! :thumbsup:

"say something really dumb to get attention and publicity." I don't think Cowell is that mentally retarded to think it's true. At least I hope not.

Dylan would not survive long on American Idol. If he wasn't voted off, he'd just sorr of wander off.

But in a singing contest with Eric Clapton or Leonard Cohen, I'm just not sure who'd come off as the most melodic.

Yeah, he'd definitely wander off. But only after telling Simon how full of shit he is, in so may words. :rofl:

And good point about the "melodic" singing contest with Clapton and Cohen. That would be funny, wouldn't it!

How the fuck would a Dylan fan know ANYTHING about Simon?:shrug:

Anyway, I found the quote in the OP on a Dylan discussion board.

So it's Bob's fault, after all. :rofl:

I am rather proud that I have never seen that show. I did see him on the Simpsons though.

By "unavoidable" I was referring to the fucking 24/7 ads. :puke:

tru'enough:kick:

Not much challenging going on there. Now Kelly has transcended Idol and I love her music, but I still think Bob's best stuff can beat almost anyone - not just Kelly. At least he kept it to a matter of his personal preference.

The other singer/activists that I dig, such as Leonard Cohen, Pete Seeger, Simon and Garfunkel, and even the Beatles, take a simple idea and expand on it with the lyrics.

The only Dylan songs I think are worthwhile are the simpler songs. Most of his stuff is both too complicated and too tuneless.