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Favorite Star Trek Generations Bad Guy, I vote Dr. Soren...

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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:47 AM
Original message
Favorite Star Trek Generations Bad Guy, I vote Dr. Soren...
Edited on Thu Apr-12-07 12:50 AM by bridgit
an otherwise caring guy, smart, focused across space & time; that just wants to get back to The Nexus and the remembrances of his long dead family, yet willing to destroy worlds & people while manipulating vast gravitational & cosmological forces in order to accomplish what he considers his most vital ends...a true cosmic stinker :thumbsup:
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. alien kick...
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. Kivas Fajo
Edited on Thu Apr-12-07 10:08 AM by Orrex
Ably played by Saul Rubinek

He was intelligent, ruthless, unprincipled, selfish, machiavellian, sadistic, covetous, unrepentant to the end, and may even have accidentally inspired Data's first anger-driven action, all in the space of a single one-hour episode!
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. ooh i remember that guy he *was* a stinker, he was in Eastwood's...
Unforgiven too :hi:
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Also in True Romance
He always gives a good performance, but The Most Toys was the first role in which I saw him.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. True Romance is bad-ass, all kinds of good folks in it...
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Good choice.
I'm surprised he didn't get a job in the Bush WH.

Oh. Right.

Never mind
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. heh-heh...
:thumbsup:
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. If you're referring to what I think you're referring to
I didn't even figure that out until I was looking up the link for my reply.

I'm so perceptive!
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TOhioLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Well I'd have to say...
Edited on Thu Apr-12-07 10:20 AM by TOhioLiberal

KHANNNNNNN!!!
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. geez i just hated that little *thing* in the sand too...
:scared:
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. No fair! He's a TOS villain!
But he is the quintessential Star Trek bad guy.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
6. Malcolm is hard to beat
He's compelling even when he's in a turkey of a film, like Blue Thunder. And he always seems to be having a great time in his roles, which adds something to the performance.

Kind of hard to do anything else after A Clockwork Orange, I'd guess, so kudos to him for moving way out of Alex's shadow!
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. he was great in Tank Girl too...
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Forgot about that one!
And to think that I listened to Army of Me just a few days ago.

A weird and wild movie, that's for sure!
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
29. my theme song!!!
Bjork - Army Of Me (Live @ Festivalbar) :headbang:
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slj0101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. And he's now Mr. Linderman on "Heroes."
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. i like to see him working, i guess i've been a fan of Malcom's for a long time...
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. Since Soren was the only bad guy in Generations, I say Soren as well.
Edited on Thu Apr-12-07 10:46 AM by Rabrrrrrr
Though it would have been nice if you opened the question up to the whole world of Star Trek villains.

x(
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. wouldn't people be saying Q and such when Q was just a gregarious enitity...
oh sure, Q would destroy ones entire family, planet, sun(s), moon(s), and the quadrant in the universe ones hapless species comes from; or maybe even everything one may see before them like, you know, for all time & shit...

but then put it all back like, "Oh, stop being such a fuddy duddy, Picard." :rofl:

no wait, that was generations too, never mind this is me------->:dunce:
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
39. I love Q
He likes the Enterprise crew, they are his favorite entities to fuck with.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. yup...
:rofl:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
62. Q needed to be in one of the TNG movies. Instead, we got
a lame-arse Picard clone from the most contrived and ridiculous ideas ever... Shinzon. A discarded clone of Picard that looks different, lives on the dark side of a slave planet to mine nasty stuff his entire life, and still manages to build a gigantic spacecraft capable of probably even destroying 50 Borg cubes single-handed...

Never mind the worst abuse of physics, given in 1998 we all knew it wouldn't be possible to get the two rammed ships apart... ugh.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. heh-heh, Q would make sense in Forbidden Planet...
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Ryano42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
17. He has the best quote in the whole movie...
Talking to the fractured and grieving Pickard at the bar:

"Captain...they say Time is the Fire in which we BURN..." in that Malcom McDowell voice...love it.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. that is a great line...
:wow:
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Self - delete
Edited on Thu Apr-12-07 11:38 AM by Orrex
Oops--wrong place.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. it's all good...
:)
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Brent Spiner had some fine lines in Generations
Edited on Thu Apr-12-07 11:45 AM by pokerfan
(Data, with his new emotion chip installed, is told to scan for life forms)
Data: I would be happy to, sir. I just *love* scanning for life forms!
(sings)
Data: Life forms! You tiny little life forms! You precious little life forms! Where are you?

(Data finds a drink unpleasant - for the first time ever)
Data: I hate this! It is revolting!
Guinan: More?
Data: Please!

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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. i know, good stuff...
:rofl:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
63. A brilliant and clever line, period.
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
19. Resistance is futile
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. awww yes, but of course...
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
40. Brilliant, beautiful and as lethal as a photon torpedo
Can't ask for more from a bad girl.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. i like how she had to buckle her head to her ass bone...
now "that's* fashion ;)
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Does anyone know how did they do that scene?
Was it all CGI? Because there's no cut or edit. Her upper body glides in and smoothly attaches to the torso in one stationary middle distance shot.

"i like how she had to buckle her head to her ass bone..."

My dear, back in the day, all we ladies got dressed that way -- corsets, don'tcha know.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. yeah prolly CGI but then yeah again...
"My dear, back in the day, all we ladies got dressed that way -- corsets, don'tcha know." :rofl: :thumbsup:
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Bassic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
45. The borg were cool until the borg queen.
Then they were just lame

And I never understood why they had a crest.
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
22. Now if you're talking about Generations, there's not much to choose from.
I mean, you have Soren (Who I think should have shot Kirk in the back. It would have made him much more of a villain.)



And then you have Lursa and B'Etor (whose only real accomplishment in the movie was playing Catch the Photon Torpedo. They didn't even get to celebrate taking down the Enterprise)



Not exactly much to choose from there, in my opinion (I blame Brannon Braga for that)

But if you're talking about the entire series, I'd have to go with my personal favorite; Commander Tomalak (played by Andreas Katsulas, may he rest in peace)



Unfortunately, he was too underused as a villain, but Katsulas played Tomalak to the hilt; the quintessential scheming Romulan.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Lursa delivered one of the other great lines after Soren popped her lip...
"I hope for your sake (wiping a bit of her blood across his lips with her finger stroking his face & hair) that you're initiating a mating ritual." :thumbsup:
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Yeah, but try using it in a bar and see where it gets you
I swear, people are so uptight.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. hahaha, most agreed...
:rofl:
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. I forgot about that line. That was a good one.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. i thought Lursa and B'Etor were fun, and you are completely correct in pointing out...
"They didn't even get to celebrate taking down the Enterprise" conquering the universe can be so unfair x(
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. But then again...was it completely their doing?
I mean, the first time Commander Troi takes the helm, she wraps the saucer section around a mountain. Sheesh.
Talk about a (wait for it) crash course in starship piloting (rimshot).

Thank you, I'll be here all week. Be sure to tip your servers!
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. oh i know, "Nice driving, Punkin!! Where'd you get that licsense...
"...a Cracker Jack box?" :rofl:
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #38
49. At the end of the movie, I was waiting for Picard to tell Riker:
"Will, I let you have the ship for three hours and you wrap half of it around a mountain!"
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. pft...
:spray: "But, Will, a call came in on my cell phone!!" :rofl:
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Heh
I thought that Starfleet vessels came with hands-free wireless options? :shrug:

(Just don't get me started on First Contact. I've got a ton of 'em for that one.)
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. i would have thought in the year 2500-2700, they'd have invented a devise...
you wouldn't need to tap first, 'tap' "Kirk to Enterprise, 3 to beam up."...voice recognition perhaps :shrug:
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Start your engine, HKC. Tell me if you would,
how did Cochrane, Riker, LaForge and The Phoenix all get to the launch site in Montana in time to greet the Vulcans?
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Overheard in the Phoenix module:
"Land? Whaddya mean 'land'?"
"Crap, I knew I forgot to include something. Anyone got any parachutes?"

My favorite is when the Borg were modifying the main deflector dish. Time is of the essence, as they'll be able to signal the Borg in the Delta Quadrant shortly, so Picard, Worf, and Ensign SoonToDie decide "It's a lovely day here in space, so let's walk to the deflector dish and pick some flowers on the way there."

I mean, where are the jetpacks? Spock had one in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Did he take the last one that Starfleet ever made?
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Thank you. I always chalk it up to mere movie magic.
Yeah, you're right. Couldn't they have just beamed to the dish? But Frakes wanted to try an outdoorsy scene, so there you are.

By the way, that's Lieutenant Redshirt Soontodye, known around the Mess as Red. "He sure is now."
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. I won't deny that the sight of them walking on the hull gave me a thrill.
I always like seeing ships in proper perspective in sci-fi movies so you can appreciate just how damn big these things are.
The scene was impressive, I agree. And Frakes did a bang-up job (there were a few holes he could have put some plaster or spackle in plot-wise, but hey, what can you do?)

But I still scratched my head in the theater at that one. I was like, "um...guys...you wanna, um, hurry it up, please?"
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. It was the first time we ever had a real sense of the size of the Big E.
I think all involved wanted a first time EVA scene and the writers shoe horned one in.

Frakes do did a great job with it. I understand he's called Two Takes Frakes. He has everything ready to go, does the first take, fiddles with this or that. Number two, it's in the can and move on the next scene. The cast and crew must love him for that. Spending all day on one scene ala William Wyler has to be crazy making.
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #22
33. Katsulas did get one great moment.
The final TNG episode, "All Good Things". Picard is trying to get Tomalak to buy off on his offer to explore the Neutral Zone together. Tomalak barks, "Does Star Fleet know of this plan?" Picard ruefully shakes his head, "No." Tom lights up, "Good! I like it already."
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. ha! good one2...
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. And that's why I liked him.
:thumbsup:
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. Andreas Katsulas will always be Citizen G'Kar to me
RIP Andreas...
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Me too. G'Kar was where he really shined
I saw some of that "G'Kar-ness" in his final performance as Tomalak in All Good Things (as referenced by the quote above).
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. A buddy of mine was an extra on Babylon 5
You can read about his adventure here:
http://www.thebarrens.com/keystone-1.html

He said one of the funniest images was seeing Andreas (in full G'Kar costume) smoking a cigarette in between takes.
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Awesome. Thanks for the link.
JMS did say that Andreas "loved smoking with a passion."

Now that you mention it, I think I have seen pics of Andreas in full costume smoking on the net.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
64. The Generations DVD has the original back-shooting ending...
Edited on Thu Apr-12-07 06:18 PM by HypnoToad
Apart from a little bit at the end, it's VASTLY superior to Shatner's lengthy soliloquy after dropping several hundred feet and trapped inside collapsed bridge struts... and it was changed due to a low audience appreciation rating.

Screw the audience. When doing art, do your vision. Mass produced stuff for the masses waters the masses down and, regardless if it's a success or not, it's going to be lambasted on a few years later when people see them ass produced garbage for what it is.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
67. Klingon Kleevage!


They were used to good comic effect in Generations...

(the Duras sisters spy on Geordi)
Lursa: Where is he now?
B'Etor: I don't know? He bathed, now he's roaming the ship. He must be the only engineer in Starfleet who doesn't GO TO ENGINEERING!

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m_welby Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
51. The Man who Killed Kirk !!! n/t
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. yeah that bastard too...
x(
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
61. Khan is #1 for me, but Soran - oddly - is #2.
For villains with a sob story, he's the best villain. Ru'afo being second best...

While 'Generations' has plenty of plot holes and other problems, I still think it's got merit - and chutzpah. And I loved the darker bridge set; letting the ambient exterior light flood in. Pity they didn't keep that idea up... but that was probably TOO atmospheric, despite being accidental - the lighting was done that way to hide 7 year old TV sets that would show every imperfection on a large film screen.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. i think that's right, Khan had major pathos; adapting/over-coming within...
environs of extreme separation & personal loss, intelligence & the sheer will to perseverve even unto a twisted state w/fore knowledge of an alien world at the ready = bad guy ah'plenty :thumbsup:
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darmok167 Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
68. nm
Edited on Thu Apr-12-07 10:39 PM by darmok167
nm
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. eor...
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
70. I liked the Salt Sucker...
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. that dude completely reminded me of a Morlock...
so that's what too much salt intake looks like :)
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-07 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. Maybe that's why I liked her...
She is quite Morlockian!
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-13-07 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. well there is that line 'something in the way she moves'...
:hi:
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-13-07 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. Peggy's ocean pics remind me...
They should have just taken the critter to Earth and let her suck salt from the sea...
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-13-07 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. bwhahaha, there you go, a fresh water planet here we come...
:bounce:
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