*rant* I'm so sick of hearing people excuse online cruelty by saying

... "It's just the internet. Don't take it so seriously."

What the hell do you mean, "just" the internet?? It's a massive network of REAL PEOPLE, not a bunch of text-spewing, emotionless bots. The things that hurt us in "real life", hurt us HERE too. If someone says something critical or cruel here, I take it just as seriously as I would if they said it to my face. The hurt and anger that I feel in response are *real*, not imaginary.

Some say, "Well people are more cruel on the internet because they can be anonymous, and say things they would never say face-to-face" and yes, that might be true. But trying to excuse/explain said behavior by spouting off the old line about "It's just the internet" *enables* that kind of free-for-all sadism. It tells them flamers that "Hey, it's okay to be as vicious as you want to be, because when someone calls you on it, we'll remind them that this is just the internet, and therefore they're overreactive, sensitive dolts for feeling hurt!" Typical blame-the-victim approach.

For those who do this sort of thing, please let me enlighten you--even on the internet, cruel words hurt REAL people. Trying to assign even a tiny bit of the blame to the victim by pontificating about the inherent nature of the internet DOES NOT HELP. It just makes it hurt worse for the victim, and tacitly excuses the perpetrator--which makes YOU a part of them problem, whether you meant to be or not.

Sorry. Been reading at GD today, and it's already gotten my blood boiling.

/endrant

I've heard even very polite nice posters talk about how they feel the internet is not "real". Maybe some people do feel that way but many of us behave and feel the same way in real life as we do in our posts. However, there is no denying that there are many insensitive, uncaring even creul people in this world and since the Internet allows access to all we tend to hear from people on a normal basis we would NEVER interact with in real life. In fact I suspect a lot of these people who are cruel here are people who feel the anonymity of the internet lets them express ideas they would not DARE to do in real life. The only thing to try to do is avoid them when possible. I too have felt much the same as you on numerous occasions....:)
PS- ranting is a good way to vent and feel better..I have done my share:)

But, then, people will be people.

Sometimes, when people first come on the line at my job they will ask (very sarcastically), "Are you a real person?" My favorite response is, "Last time I checked, I was!"

What is "real," anymore?

I, for one, hardly know.

:hug:

K&R!

I think you feel what you feel. It's okay to react to the internet. However, it's also important to keep things in perspective.

Namecalling on the internet is not torture. People can be blocked, ignored, or - gasp - confronted. I think it's a smack in the face to victims of real-life abuse to equate namecalling on an internet message board with being the victim of sadism.

...that it was okay to treat people like dirt there, because it was "just a game." Well, the RPG aspect of it may have been a "game," but beyond that it was the primary social life for a lot of players, many of whom were seriously hurt by out-of-control admins. If I learned nothing else from those scumbags, I learned how not to run an RPG ... and I ended up running the top-rated game in the fandom for a number of years.

Ironically, what I ultimately learned from it all, was not to take it so seriously, not to get so emotionally caught up. That's even easier for me at a site like DU, where most posters are anonymous to me, or at best "recognized names;" it's a little harder when you spend many of your waking hours with a group of known individuals online, and there's intensive personal interaction, much sharing of hopes/fears/dreams (I don't do that anymore either!), and they become "family" even if you may never have met them. I was intensely into that scene for a long time - until I reached the point that I didn't care to put in the emotional energy anymore. I can still get pissed off by something a stranger says to me on the internets, or some ignorant comment about a topic that's dear to me - but it's only momentary, anymore. I need my energy for other things.

however, my first response is always to remember that there's only one person I can control in this world--me.

If I don't like how I'm being treated, and there's an easy way to remove myself from the situation, that is usually the best option.

Sooner or later the person behaving badly will run into someone who will treat them badly. Karma always wins out, and that usually means I need not expend even one ounce of energy trying to get people to behave the way I think they should.

If everyone removes themselves from the situation except for the bullies, where does that leave your online community? Or in the case of DU, progressive causes as a whole? Because if we aren't talking on the internet because we're all taking responsibility for ourselves by not engaging with bullies, where are we talking? If we aren't taking action on the internet because we're leaving the bullies to their own devices, where are we taking action? You see what I'm getting at here? If all the nice people remove themselves from a situation, only the mean people are left. And that doesn't improve anything.

IMO, this is the biggest flaw with the "take responsibility for yourself" method of dealing with assholes - all it does is improve the situation for yourself. It doesn't address your community as a whole, the plight of other people who still remain, or even the injustice of ceding the field to the jerks. And that's pretty selfish, to just remove yourself from the situation without a thought for the others around you or your social group. Presumably we all care about DU, not just because we like this community, but because we all think progressive causes are extremely important. Allowing bullies to take over in the interest of "taking responsibility for ourselves" is both a betrayal of DU and of the work all of us do in the wider world.

I'm not trying to lecture you here - this subject is just a pet peeve of mine. And I really hate reading some of the responses I've read in this thread. People mean well when they say things like you said - they think they're being wise and reasonable - but nothing in this world ever changed for the better because someone refused to engage with a bully.

at the same time if everybody left the bully alone, he wouldn't have anyone left to engage.

Sooner or later the bullies learn that there won't be anyone to play with if they don't play nice.

Of course, the trick is to get other "nice" people to walk away too, and since you can't control them either.....

I understand where you're coming from, and again, I think it's a fair point.

A good online community administrator will have rules for participation at his/her site, and will have moderators who keep everyone in hand.

Maybe the real trick is to be choosy about which sites you choose to frequent.

Apparently "do unto others..." doesn't count online. :sarcasm:

very true...

some people are very cruel and i guess they excuse it by saying it's just the internet

we are all responsible for ourselves and our actions in person or online.

the anonymity of the internet is less so than many think.

take a deep breath though, because neither you nor i can do anything about it except express things like you have and practice it in our lives.

no one is perfect, but we can all certainly make an effort to treat others as we would want to be treated ourselves.

:hi:

I only have one question:

Why did you post this in the Lounge?

The asshats that need to see this are probably all in GD, hurling insults and contempt at others as we type.

I was afraid it would just wind up being moved here anyway, since it didn't relate to politics in general, and was more about interactions between people.

probably isn't very content with themselves.

There's also the breed of people who act like hypersensitive buffoons by projecting their problems or experiences on someone else and thereby justifying their attack. In their little mind they have a reason. I haven't experienced much of this lately, but I have in the past so I've learned to be pretty thick-skinned. I find those who were asses to me were asses to many people. Let them bask in their misery while I'm doing just fine. :D