How far do you go for friendship?

So I have this friend. I've been good friends with him for over a decade, we've helped each other move, our wives are great friends, our kids are great friends. When I need help with something, he's the first person I call, and he's always here to help. About two months ago, though, he started having a run of bad automotive luck. First, he doubleparked his minivan, his families only transportation, on a busy road, and the thing got nailed by another car. He gets his insurance money a few weeks later, goes down to a local car lot and buys a new one. Three days after buying it, the front tire blew as he was getting onto the freeway, the minivan swerved, and he ended up clipping a semi and spinning into the median wall. He was OK, but his insurance company started giving his a hard time about it. Because he and his family still needed transportation, he took everything they had in the bank and bought some cheap POS car off Craigslist. A couple of weeks later he's coming home dead tired after working a double shift, lets the car drift off the road, and runs it out into some farmers field. The body damage was minor, but the suspension is trashed. His insurance company has dropped him, and is now balking at paying out anything on that one too.

Sitting in my garage is a beautiful, fully restored 1972 Pontiac Firebird. This car has just under 60,000 original miles on it, and was purchased new by my father with every conceivable option and accessory. She's black, with a black leather interior, and she's my baby. I typically put less than 500 miles a year on the car (mostly because it get about 8MPG...less if you drive fast), and hang onto it as a family heirloom. I grew up riding around in that car, and it's still a thrill to drive.

So my friend calls me up this morning. "Hey man, it looks like the insurance company is going to drag this one out. I REALLY need a car so we can go shopping and stuff...can I borrow your Firebird for a couple of days?" I told him that I'd think about it and get back to him. Every fiber in my body was screaming HELL NO, but my wife looked at me and said, "But honey, he's your friend."

So, how far would you go for friendship. And what would you tell mine?

on second thoughts, i know nothing about cars. so really maybe i shouldnt have opined on this.

:hi:

I have my everyday car, my wifes mini-van, and an old Scout that I use to get back to the good fishing spots in the Sierras. I can't lend him my car because I need it, and my wife can't lend hers either, because she works 20 miles from home. I'd lend him the Scout, but it only has lapbelts in the front (no belts in the back at all) and isn't safe for kids.

And I know he needs it. That's why this is so tough. It's just a car, but it's not just any car. To me anyway. I really don't know if I could forgive him if he wrecked it.

its just three or four days and you are not having bad car luck.

The thought had occurred to me, but my youngest kiddo requires a carseat, and 1972 Firebirds weren't designed to accomodate them. The seat angle and the non-retractable belts make it impossible to get a carseat secured.

I lend some friends things, sure. But if they have a history of loosing/breaking them? No way.
If you must, lend him your every day car and YOU drive the firebird.

My youngest still requires a car seat, and modern car seats will NOT fit in the back of a 1972 Firebird.

Or do you both pick up kids in 2 cars?
Tough choices.

Wife drops the little one off at daycare in the morning, and I pick him up in the early afternoon. I actually use my bike when the weather permits, but we're into the summer now (it's supposed to hit 102 or 103 today). So yes, we need two carseat capable vehicles.

I guess I could use the Scout and just put the carseat in front, but the Scout has no A/C. That would work, but I'd be miserable.

Again, I guess it comes down to how far I'm willing to go for a friend. I may be able to deal with the misery of a little heat for a few days (while he drives around in my air conditioned car).

Good that y'all are friends. Sad that he's had a terrible run of bad luck (some of which he's responsible for).

But that is not only a fine-ass car; it's also a sentimental possession. If you lend it to him, you might as well take it to the junkyard yourself.

Tell him NO. NO NO NO NO NO!

That Firebird is personal to you and more than just a car.

Sorry, man, just can't do it. Explain why. If he's really a friend, he'll understand.

Bake

The guy is a disaster magnet. Three wrecks in a few months? There is something else going on here that you don't know about. Put it this way, what kind of a friend is he to ask something like that? This is his problem, not yours.

that is just too many wrecks to be bad luck

The first one wrecked because he was double parked and was a moron. The second one wrecked because he hit the onramp too fast and blew a tire in the curve. The third one wrecked because he was flat broke (thanks to the earlier two wrecks) and was working 16-18 hours a day to make some extra money. He exhausted himself.

But no drugs or alcohol. He does drink like a fish on occasion, but it wasn't a factor here.

Imagine what he'll do with 455 horses.

:scared:

My dad put a tuned exhaust, updated the carbs, and put a modern electronic ignition system in it, so I suspect it's actually a bit over 455 horsepower now. Never put it on a dyno though.

you should not enable this

That's if he doesn't wreck it first. And how do you know he won't feel compelled to race it?

Lie to him. Tell him it doesn't run and make up some bullshit story.

I don't have any photos of the car online, but here's one I found that's identical. Right down to the hood scoops. The only difference is that mine still has the factory wheels.



It's a car that just screams "Race Me!". It's also a car that has to be respected, because it will happily kill you if you abuse it.

That alone is a reason not to let it out of your sight.

of difference between those and the Judge. They eat asphalt.

My dad first tossed me the keys to the car when I was in college, and like any 19 year old with 400+ horsepower underfoot, I abused it. In fact, I scrubbed a brand new pair of tires bald in THREE DAYS.

My dad took the keys back until I could replace them and make the car safe to drive again. That's when I learned that tires are expensive, and brodies are stupid.

Funny thing, the tires I bought for it back then are still on the car today. That should give you some indication of how little I drive it.

once a "friend" asks for cars or money they are no longer a friend but a user, the friendship is over

it is too bad your "friend" is a poor driver and money manager but wrecking your car and your insurance as his next move will not help anything for him OR you, it will just cause a fight and end the friendship

end it now and keep your car/insurance record or end it after your "friend" has destroyed both

easy call, once someone hits me up for autos and money they never see me again, it's over

people who have repeated bad luck are not just unlucky, they are screwing up

"...Real friends will help you move bodies."

N.F.W.

Mint condition '72 Firebird and he has just trashed 3 vehicles? No freakin' way, no how. That isn't just a car he's asking to borrow, it's a '72 Firebird with only 60k original miles on it!

I don't know about the laws in your state, but if his insurance dropped him, there's a chance your insurance might not pay a dime should he wreck the Firebird.

Even disregarding his recent driving record, what do you suppose would happen to your friendship if something bad were to happen? You've said you don't know if you could forgive him. Add to that, how would he react to you?

There's way too much at stake here.

maybe tell him the firebird isn't listed on your insurance, but he probably knows better, so I really don't have any useful advice. But I am kind of amazed at his inability to see the situation from the outside...what position it puts you in asking this of you with such a bad track record. If he were to damage the car significantly and you feel that that would permanently harm your friendship, then maybe it's better to value the friendship enough not to lend him the car. I don't understand how the insurance company could have dropped him and still have the issue of paying out on that car. If they are 'balking at paying out' then it sounds like they are still responsible at least until the details of this wreck are settled and couldn't he then rent a car for a couple of days at their expense...I know some people have this as an option on their policies. I'm not sure why he is unable to rent a car himself, or borrow the money from his family or hers...it seems like you would be way down on the list. Of course I always sell stuff when stuff like this happens to me.

When I say "they dropped him", I meant that they informed him they wouldn't be extending him any new policies.

At the moment, they're trying to get him to take a settlement. The minvan was totalled, and they are basically refusing to pay him anything near what he had just paid for it. Same goes for the Honda he ran off the road. They paid him $9,000 for the first minivan. He tossed in $1,000 of his own money and bought the second one outright for $10,000. The insurance company only wants to give him $6,500 for it. He paid $1,500 for the Honda, the repair bill for the suspension is estimated to be over $1,000, and the insurance company only wants to give him $450 for it.

where if his car is in the shop his insurance will pay for a rental (or they reimburse you, I think).

Ouch, that hurts on the Honda, to pay 1500 for it and have a 1000 suspension repair. Well, still, 2500 isn't too bad for a Honda if it's a good one. I hope this is the end of his run of bad luck.

And I'd tell him the truth - "Look, man, you're my friend and if it was any old car, I'd let you borrow it. But it's not any old car and you're not borrowing it."

If he has a problem with that, he's not much of a friend. A real friend wouldn't even ask something like that - it's too much to ask of anyone.

Besides, he sounds careless and stupid. It was stupid and careless to double park, it was stupid and careless to blow that tire and it was stupid and careless to drift off the road or drive when he was that tired. That was the time to call a friend - when he needed a ride.

edited to add - I just saw the photo. Can I borrow it? :hi:

Since taking "full custody" of the car from my Dad, only three other people have driven it. My sister (who grew up in the car too), my brother in law (which is why my sister isn't allowed to borrow it anymore), and my wife (who was so scared by the power that she has refused to drive it a second time).

Thinking about it, my friend was aware of that too. It kind of irritates me that he'd even ask now.

and most replacable.

Not the restored firebird.

Yes, I'm going to loan him a car. No, I'm not going to loan him my Firebird.

As I mentioned upthread, I have an old 1969 International Scout that I use to pull trailers and reach remote fishing spots in the Sierras. I didn't want to loan him the truck because it has no seatbelts for the back bench, but as I think about it, a 1969 SHOULD still have the holes for the mounts.

So I'm going to make him an offer. If he'll put seatbelts in the back (even cheapie junkyard pulls), I'll let him borrow it. With no A/C and 105 degree summer temps on the way, I suspect that he won't want to drive it very long.

And if he wrecks it, I won't care. I only paid $400 for the thing.

Thank you everyone for your input. Most of you simply reinforced what I was already feeling about the situation, and it kept me thinking about it long enough to come up with a solution.

Really the seatbelt thing should be his problem rather than yours.

So..... since the Firebird is free, can I borrow it? :P

good idea, it's the least he can do. I hope he gets back on track...they say trouble happens in threes so maybe things will be looking up for him soon. You are a good friend. :hug:

I would check on the the insurance thing. What if he totals a nice car while driving your car. Can you be held liable since it is in your name? I don't know the answer. I would just hate to read a thread in a few months titled, "My friend did 50K of damage while driving my car and they want me to pay."

I know know nothing about insurance.. But I have heard of similar situations ending badly.

this guy is going to ruin his own insurance by loaning his car to someone who had 3 wrecks in a short period of time

if the insurance co. finds out this is going on, he can expect to lose his own insurance or pay a lot more for it

this is just plain stupid

if the friend needs a car, let him buy a car, if the poster only paid $400 for the scout, sell it for $400 or even give it to the friend BUT it must be done on public record w. dept of motor vehicles or else when friend wrecks scout the poster's insurance history will also be on the line

Seriously, I hardly ever use it, and the insurance bill to cover it under a standard policy would exceed the value of the Scout several times over, each year.

My car insurance policy covers my car and my wifes car, and has an addendum covering both of us in any other vehicles we drive. Technically, this covers her and I if we drive the Scout, but doesn't cover anyone else. If he drives it, the car is completely uninsured. I've already called him up and made the offer, and I pointed out that he'd need to resolve the insurance situation.

I'll make sure to verify that he's done so before I hand over the keys.

Oh, and if anyone was curious, he was happy to be offered the Scout. He wasn't quite so happy when I reminded him that it has no A/C. It was 102 degrees here today :)

:-)