"bye bye plane!" angel shows how adorable he is on GMA

:sarcasm:

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13675836/detail.html

And look at mom, so sweet and madonna-esque, making zero attempt to control the child.

snip:

While Kate Penland explained her child was well-behaved on the Continental Express flight, little Garren kicked, wiggled and squirmed out of his mother's arms.

At one point he climbed up on a coffee table and rifled through Sawyer's scripts.

When Sawyer handed him a model Space Shuttle to distract him, Garren rolled it off the table and onto the floor.

(It got so bad that Chris Cuomo had to come carry the child off the set so Sawyer could finish the interview.)

:thumbsup:

:wtf:

at 19 months? My daughter, who is now 8, is one of the most well-behaved children I have ever seen (and I have been told this by countless people), but even she would have squirmed under those lights....

edit: typo

She was making no attempt to do that on that program.

Maybe our concept of "normal" behavior for children is a bit f'd up? Perhaps a bit too permissive?

he is supposed to do. Act like the baby he is.

My point exactly - he is 19 months old people!

Yeah... I now understand why Americans grow up to be loud, narcissistic, and demanding. Because society thinks that this is "normal."

the vast majority of Americans being 'loud, narcissistic, and demanding'. Where I reside, most people I interact with are friendly and polite.

I do agree about the World's version of the 'Ugly American', but that is a perception that is unique to other parts of the world.

And, I would LOVE to see a mom CONTROL a 19month old in unfamiliar surroundings who is probably exhausted from the trip as well as getting up early. :rofl:

Because if you can honestly say that you had total & complete control over ANY 19 month old, I want to know your secret - or at least have a sip of whatever it is you are drinking....


edit - typo

as in 'don't put that in your mouth, sweetheart', etc., etc., etc.,

Showing them the right way to do things, share, etc., (although I still haven't met a 2year old who can share and nor should they actually)

Gently guiding them assures that they will make the correct choices. A 19month isn't capable of that and I get the feeling that this mom has been through the wringer over this story. God, in GD they are excoriating her for not suffocating the little guy.

waking moment can really wear anyone out. I feel bad for the mom, your're right, they are really putting her through the wringer.

that despite the complaint down thread over the flower girls, overall I'm way in agreement with you and appreciating your posts.

as the mother of a 2 y.o. who is completely exhausting me lately - I thank you so much for your words. I spend all day constantly disciplining her and it's wearing me down mentally. Usually my husband helps give me a break but he's working so much right now - it's all me. It's making me want valium. My blood pressure is boiling and there's only so far you can get with "disciplining".

people's heads explode for some reason if we think a parent should teach a child boundaries at an early age.

We seem to have no middle way.

That is what babies do. They aren't miniature adults.

New place, different people, lots of places to explore. No way he'd be happy just sitting there-he would wiggle about and try to get loose.

If he sat there and didn't take interest in anything I'd be worried.

And he wasn't a 19 month old baby.

If she had to go to NY for that interview...lost sleep...same with the kid...lost sleep. A baby without a nap is a tornado.

Good grief.

Boy, some of the remarks here makes me hope you aren't parents. I wonder what that famous child hater, W.C. Fields would say about it. I had a 2nd grade teacher who tied kids to their desks and when the principal walked in she let the old croan have it...as in "That's not the way you discipline children!"

:sarcasm:

*sigh*

I was surprised, thinking (I thought requeen was a cool chick).

It's hard to tell sarcasm these days. Cheers, clink!

I was surprised, thinking (I thought requeen was a cool chick).

It's hard to tell sarcasm these days. Cheers, clink!

I thought it was pretty over the top... but I guess that doesn't really guarantee the person's not serious anymore.

:hi:

Yes, I should never be allowed around children.

I don't think my concept of "normal"behavior is f'd up at all. Anyone who knows me will tell you I am one of the strictest parents out there. My kid gets no junk food, very little TV and will respond the "the look" in a New York minute.

ever. Did I get lucky? Probably. Would I have addressed the issue had it arisen? Absolutely.

People are constantly commenting how well behaved mine are, how helpful, how kind and how polite. I will take credit for some of that, but not all.

but the look - that is all it takes - THE LOOK.

At my brother's wedding in May, there were 10 flower girls, all of them horrid little brats - except little MB. Everyone at that wedding told me they had never seen an 8 year old so well behaved.

I remember once in a restaurant he said, "If I acted like that, my mother would have smacked me on the backside." Yeah... different days... different standards...

again, I say America has a hatred of children like no other country I've ever been in.

brats. They were all over the age of 8 and complained the whole time because they could not play their Nintendo DS during the wedding ceremony - and I mean kicking and screaming about it for an hour during the rehearsal and for about 25 minutes before the actual wedding. That is what I mean by horrible little brats.

"all of them horrid little brats" rather than speaking about it as though this was one instance of them misbehaving, under extremely abnormal and stressful circumstances, very possibly fueled by some mob mentality.

I asked this question elsewhere in the thread, but nobody answered:

"If you see a mom and a screaming baby standing in the customs line at an airport, what runs through your head?"

I've been the mom with the screaming baby in an hour long customs line at an airport before, in another country, one filled with evil communists. How do you suppose people reacted?

If I saw a mom with a screaming baby in an hour long customs line I'd feel sorry for them both and figure they were exhausted and starving. If I were close enough and had some crackers or nibblies with me I'd offer them over. Same with a juice box or even a piece of paper and an ink pen.

Then again, I'm a single mom. I know what it's like to deal with a cranky toddler with no help around.

I went to a lot of campaign rallies in 2004. Being in a battleground state, it was almost a weekly occurrence that I would see one of the Johns, or Elizabeth or Teresa. After the first one, I learned to bring wrapped snack bars with me, and when I saw an upset child (I like the term "upset" more than "brat"), I would ask the mother if they were hungry, and offer them one. They were always grateful, the kids were thrown off their mindset just by the fact that an outside person took an interest in them, they were curious to see what the food was - it was a win-win for everyone.

Here's what actually happened at customs. They pulled us out of line, and opened up the diplomats gate so we could get through quicker, and found me a spot after that where I could sit down and feed her.

Americans as a culture have no clue, really, of what it is to put children first, instead of treating them like an annoyance that other people shouldn't have to put up with. The way other cultures treat children - when they aren't even their own - is just so far beyond what we can even conceive of that if a kid at customs is crying - we can't even come up with the idea "maybe the diplomat's gate should be opened so the child's needs can be met quicker." It's like that set of brain functions is just gone, nonexistent.

don't have anyone to hand the child off to.

If you're dealing with a baby it usually just a few reasons why they're crying-they're tired, they're hungry, they're uncomfortable (that includes wet/muddy, stuck in one spot, etc) or they're bored. Figure out which one it is and you're on your way.

I've taken my daughter to plays, to movies, to decent (not upscale since I can't afford it but decent) restaurants, to lectures, etc. We have a deal-we do something she likes one time and then we do something I like. I never take her to something inappropriate (no clubs, no pornos, no lectures on serial killers, etc)but she does attend events outside of a playground and McDonalds.

She gets the chance to use her best manners. She gets the chance to see and hear new things. She gets the chance to expand her mind and to learn how to interact with adults. (If we go to a lecture she's allowed crayons and paper. I've observed her writing down words before that pertain to the lecture and sometimes she even asks how to spell something new for her.)

If we put our children in one spot and don't allow them to explore they'll grow up not knowing what they've missed. If they've never been exposed to the ballet, a play or a symphony why would they vote to protect the arts as adults? If they've never attended a lecture and experienced the joy in learning for pleasure why would they vote as adults to increase spending in education? If they've only been exposed to fast food chains why would they support a new Thai place that is locally owned?

Just a few examples but think about it: if they aren't exposed to new ideas and experiences as children why would they support them as adults?

A 19 month old should be playing with toys and not brought into a noisy, busy studio while expecting to stay calm and serene with all the stimulation going on. My pet peeve is parents with young children trying to force their children to fit into their lives instead of putting their own needs. Like people who take toddlers to nice restaurants instead of someplace where a kid enjoy the outing also. I always did age appropriate things and got a sitter when doing something that wasn't child friendly. I didn't spend hours fighting with bored, frustrated kids. That was the best parenting advice my mom ever gave me.

They could have interviewed the mother and played a video of the little boy playing with toys in another room.

end rant

My daughter was in the audience at the Bolshoi Ballet in Moscow when she was 8 months old.

She was mesmerized by it.

I have a bigger gripe against parents who take their kids to McDonalds. That's way worse than Olive Garden. :) People ought to be up in arms about that, not about kids eating at a place that serves real food.

Of course that would require elevating children to personhood status, rather than things to be hidden away and restrained in whatever way possible until they are fit for polite society.

And about the ballet, you knew your child and obviously the child was enjoying it. Would you have stayed in she was crying and unhappy? It's all about knowing your child. None of my kids are just like the other. I have one that I could take almost anywhere. He was just a really cool kid. I also had another with some developmental issues and I was more careful about taking him to places where it would be a constant struggle.

I agree new things are key to learning, but I think any parent will agree moderation is important and family outings should be about spending time together and not just fighting with a frustrated child. How many times do we see kids in the theater at 10 pm watching a movie obviously not made for kids because their parents want to see it. The child is bored and miserable and acting out. I've found it far more enjoyable to take them to a kids movie at 6 pm and maybe get ice cream after if they were good. Everyone has fun that way.

Of course. We only had to do that once, at a restaurant. She decided screaming would be nice dinner music, we decided it wouldn't be. :)

And yes, some kids I'd take out, some I wouldn't, some I would on this day but not that day, depending on their mood. I get fed up with the blanket statements like children under the age of five shouldn't be in a restaurant, and by people who are annoyed by a child doing normal child stuff in public, and by people who see one mood swing under extraordinary circumstances (tv studio, an 11 hour flight delay) and decide to evaluate the entire competency level of the parent based on that.

That's like watching someone outside who is nailed with birdshit wipe it off with a kleenex, and announcing smugly they don't know how to do laundry.

Yes I agree! When I said that child never should have been in the studio I meant that because it was obvious he wasn't going to sit still, for any number of reasons. I still cant figure why they kicked him off the plane though....very wierd.

I've had days where I am sure folks thought I was a horrid parent and others when I was praised at how good they were. Like you said, it depends on the kid, the situation and even just the day.

And there are many restaurants and rest stop areas off the autobahn that have the a little play area for kids. Most restaurants will have crayons and books for kids and even buckets with toys. They seem to prefer their kids integrate with society rather than go to only kid friendly Mcdonalds - many of which do not have indoor play areas in Germany.

...but I've yet to meet a 19 month old child with structure and boundaries. They have structure and boundaries on the planet you live on?

The fact that he could be tired from the trip there and getting up so early doesn't seem to be a factor to some. :wtf: is right.

crazy bright lights...I would be squirming too and I'm 38!

...utter lack of an attempt to do anything to calm the child.

It's not the child I'm irked at, it's the mother.

but perhaps she knew if she tried to contain him, the struggle would become more difficult. Plus, they had Chris come and whisk him away...

She's on national television trying to explain in a sixty second interview what happened to her and her child and the child is behaving well, like the baby he is.

Don't you think you'd be rattled? I sure would be. He seems to be perfectly normal to me and for that I think she's doing a good job.

The studio lights alone would get on my nerves and knowing that everything is taped and live would scare the hell out of me.

:shrug:

Who knows how long it took for the cameras to start rolling. To a two year-old, five minutes is more like an hour.

Q: Was Diana Sawyer ever a journalist?

A: What, are you fucking crazy?

Yet another reason I don't watch tv. :banghead:

Seems pretty normal for a 19 month old baby to me.

And it's the mother's behavior (or lack thereof) that reinforces that impression.

Not in today's world, where a harsh word or a smack on the rear in public puts you at risk of having Social Services called--not that I would EVER condone spanking a baby that isn't even two years old yet.

And BABIES do not have to emotional control or mental maturity to have consistent good behavior. Period. You can teach and parent and never make a mistake, and your kid is still going to have outbursts of bad behavior in stressful or unfamiliar locations.

:thumbsup:

So shouldn't the mother learn how to deal with her child under those circumstances? Or at least make an attempt?

Did you expect her to be stern and go send him to time-out right there on the set? And if he didn't listen (like babies of that age tend to do)--what then? Should she bring out the ball-gag next?

:eyes:

before Sawyer started to interview her. Believe me, she wasn't just thrown on the set at the last minute with her child, the producers would have brought them out while the story on her rolled, set them up, then started the interview.

This child isn't the first one year old that's ever been on TV. His was fidgeting enough that it did stand out. And the mother was not even trying.

But the child is king these days.

Yeeees, the best way to settle a squirmy child who doesn't want to sit still during a tv interview is to "firmly" set them in your lap.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

And if they are eating a nice meal on camera, the best way to make them eat something they don't like is to firmly place it in their mouths. :D

not what's best for the poor suffering adult who's at home and has to turn their head away from the tv for 60 seconds because they can't bear to watch a squirmy toddler.

When your kids were that age, when they got restless and bored, how many seconds did it typically take you to get them to switch from that mode to quiet and peaceful?

And yes, I can make observations and draw conclusions based on what I see, even if you don't approve. What's especially ironic is that she was on TV to talk about how well-behaved her child is, and that didn't exactly work too well.

As I said in other posts, what is most telling to me is the mother's utter passivity, something I've watched other (lousy) parents do with their kids. She did NOTHING to calm the child. No "shh," nothing.

I get so tired of parent and kid bashing on this site...
children can be unpredictable.. especially a child that young!
it's obvious a lot of these people bashing this mom and kid don't have a lot of experience around toddlers.

(from a mother of 3)

We've talked about this before in real life many times. It's amazing how many people who have no clue about raising children either from personal experience or any education regarding child development want to throw their 2 cents in on what they think a freakin' BABY should behave like. He's one. He's a baby.

(Mother of 5)

p.s. I'm PMing you about other life stuff.

by one of the most famous news women EVER. I can't believe you are seriously sticking to your holier than thou parenting viewpoint that cuts nobody slack. Jesus h. hope I don't sit in your section of the 6-8 airplanes I ride in every year. My kids aren't perfect, but their no worse than some of the adult antics that go on either. You seem to really have it in for kids who aren't sedated.

The kid was so disruptive that she couldn't even get through the interview, so yes, pausing for one second to hush the child is the least she should've done. But she didn't. She just sat there and let the kid go nuts.

and so was her child. To say that she didn't at least attempt to make the child more comfortable or to give him something to do before Sawyer started the interview is telling.

And yes, I have worked in broadcasting.

:spray:

:D

Truly sorry.

the argument I'm reading in here is that The Child was uncomfortable in unfamiliar circumstances. But obviously, whatever prepping the producer/ or the PA would have done was not enough to quell The Child's behavior.

BTW: I'm sorry that my work background pisses you off. ;)

:spray: :rofl:

just sayin'....:shrug:

miked her, touched up her make-up and hair, all in a few seconds... oh and with her child? They had prep time and obviously the mother did not do enough to quell The Child.

Are my eyewitness accounts of similar interviews not enough for you?

you were not an eyewitness to this one and that is the point.

Over and out. Don't want a flame fest with you on this. Just wanted to point out that you were not there, so you don't know what happened before the interview no matter how much experience you may have on these matters, each situation is different, each guest is different. For all you know, they may have sugared him up before the interview, or he was tired. You just don't know. And to call someone a bad parent just from seeing them for a few minutes in an interview, well, is just wrong. It'd be like me calling you a snotty know it all because of all of your references to "well I used to do this for a living", but, I know from reading you here for a long time that you really aren't. :-)

see my point? Please don't take what I said in a "nasty" tone. I'm just trying to be honest with you. :hi:

That is a rare find in disagreements like this.

:)

snotty know it all.... :evilgrin:

No cute baby pictures allowed!!!!!

I used to take my 19 month old to the beach and the minute I sat her down she was off like a rocket. How I hated running after her with my skin flapping around. Some kids are just full of gusto. That boy might have calmed down if'd been given something to eat or drink. Not dopey stuffed animals. Give him some toys to use his hands with, maybe that would've done the trick. Like I said before, both of them must've been dog tired with all that flying back and forth. I would've been snarling myself.

how many KIDS HAVE YOU RAISED?

Absolutely frickin' ZERO.

I saw her pick him up two or three times and heard her talk to him more than once.

:shrug:

pissed if she had stopped at any point in the interview to get her child to behave. Time is money and there is no way they were going to waste time on that.

Sometimes you just have to keep going and deal with things the first chance you get. She held him, he squirmed like many toddlers would do, it looked like she was trying to comfort him but that wasn't going to work. She knew that they only had to deal with it for a minute or two-why fight right at that moment and possibly look like an ass on national television?'

Besides, I posted above-I'd be more worried about the kid if he hadn't wanted down. There were too many new things for him to want to see and explore.

:bounce:

:rofl:

That's hardly stern enough.

Fletcher has the right idea:

And not in a sexual way. In a I wish you were my kid way. :rofl:

:P

It's a stupid, inane morning "news" show and a segment designed to foster flame threads like this one.

:popcorn:

i'm stealing that

my 2 y.o. is perfecting some of those poses right now. That's helps me see it in a humourous way.

My three-year-old can have some major flip-outs, and when he does, we do yoga together to calm things down. Although he's pretty clever, I don't know if he'll get the irony, but I'm still going to steal this and put it on his bulletin board for him. At least he'll get a kick out of naming the poses when his little brother pitches a hissy fit.

on the show in the article.
WHy I find it funny is that I never see media draw attention to how poorly * behaves while the camera is rolling. Hmmm,

:thumbsup:

I ain't kiddin'.

:eyes:

based on a ten-minute interview, under bright, hot lights, being broadcast to millions on national television? With an even more confused, fidgety toddler in her arms?

... or in a restaurant surrounded by other people eating...

... or at the grocery store...

... or on a public bus...

I dunno... stop me when I've reached a time when The Child SHOULDN'T be confused, fidgety, and needing some structure?

I'd count myself lucky.

By the way, there was still no indication that he was fidgety on the plane. Only that he kept saying (not even screaming) "bye-bye." Put a small child in a television studio with loads of strangers, under hot, bright lights, and, *gasp*, he may not be a statue. And mom, given that she probably hasn't made a lot of television appearances, may not know exactly how to react.

Toddlers are fidgety beings. You were. I was. I would bet plenty of money that many of the people ready to jump on this child for being just that--a child--irritated their fair share of adults at age two.

:applause: :yourock:

:hi:

when someone removes a baby's pacifier.



"NO!! DON'T TOUCH IT!!!"



:scared:

I haven't been around babies much, but I was amused at how often they'd just shove the pacifier in her mouth. They're first-time parents, and clearly adore the kid, but if she so much as grunts, they whip the nook out.

Contrary to popular belief, most parents don't relish in hearing their kid wail. :)

because I couldn't find the Terry Gilliam animation that goes with it. :(

I'm slipping. :cry:

And I miss ya. :hug:









You watery tart. :P

and that's GMA's fault.

In other words, a typical toddler who was bored or tired or otherwise out of sorts. The mother could have removed him but it seemed pretty obvious that Cuomo stepped in to save the interview. That may even have been by prior arrangement because the boy was cranky before they went on air. TV sets are weird environments and a lot of little kids act out on camera.

The mother said that on the next plane he threw a major tantrum but the FAs reacted by offering to bring him food quickly and he calmed down quickly and fell asleep -- also typical toddler behavior. I'm inclined to believe her version of the events.

/right off to hell I go

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Here's my wonderful question that should produce a lot of fire, but not much light...

If we take dogs that do not possess the gift of reason to training lessons, then why don't we learn how to train our young children who have not yet reached the age of reason?

"No!" "Sit down!" "Don't touch that - danger!" - why are these bad comments to make to your child?

:shrug:

:nuke:

:eyes:

:eyes:

and toddlers for dinner.

We prefer dogs. Dogs will sit. We hate babies. Hate them hate them hate them.

Wait... did I just make Baby Jesus cry?

:evilgrin:

:toast:

Has he ever eaten a songbird?

:bounce:

:rofl:

I'm surprised at how well behaved he was in that situation. Am I the only one who heard him say "thank you" when handed the toy?

:sarcasm:

I agree with you hedgehog.

when he did it and "THEN he would learn."

Being a desperate, naive young Mom who felt as though she were at fault for her child's issue, I finally tried it.

Noel bit my finger, so I took his hand and bit his finger. He looked shocked, then angry, then grabbed me back and bit me twice as hard.

That was the moment in which I learned that I SHOULD trust my gut, and I shouldn't hurt my child. Ever.

I went back to grabbing him the minute he bit someone, saying, "no! That hurts!" putting him in the corner, and lavishing attention on the "victim." He quit biting, it just took consistent discipline and a little bit of maturity.

I relay this particular scenario, because it just proved to me that no parent is capable of producing immediate results and obedience from a small child. It takes time, persistence, and emotional and intellectual maturity to guide a child to learn to behave appropriately.

Do parents spoil their kids? Do they ineptly discipline them, resulting in lousy behavior on the part of the child? Of course some do; but SOME of the posts in the last couple days seem to suggest that any time a parent has a child acting out, they must be overly permissive and insufficient as a disciplinarian.

That's simply untrue. Nothing as significant as instilling tenets of respectful, appropriate behavior comes easily. Most of us, as parents, are doing our best on a daily basis to raise good human beings. To be honest, it is really. fucking. hard.

The next time you're in line behind a Mom with a screaming kid, maybe consider doing what I do when I'm childless at the store: Give the Mom a smile and say something like, "long day, huh?" It might just provide her a bit of empathy to help fuel her through the exhaustion she's probably feeling as a result of struggling to combat the very behavior you're annoyed by.

The bashing on this site lately about kids is really repulsive.

Some folks really need to learn to walk a mile in another's mocassins before judging.

and no one can really prove they are *right* or *wrong* about.

I know how tough it can be and I hate when parents overtly disregard the care of their children, but knowing as many moms as I do, I realize most of us are muddling through as best we can, making plenty of mistakes along the way.

Everyone I know is doing the very best that they can with the situation they have at hand. Even my one friend who I love, but wouldn't trust with my dog let alone my kids.

because it's not about perfection, but about trying. I do think that parents should try to control their children. They may not always get the results they want, but they should at least try.

Here's an example... I was in a restaurant that is one large fairly sound-contained room with many dining tables. A mother, her friend, and her baby sat in the center of the restaurant and the baby started crying loudly. The mother could do nothing at the moment to calm the baby, and I felt bad for her. Finally the mother stood up and took the baby out of the restaurant so he/she could calm down. I think that mom tried to do her best in that circumstance.

I did not see that with this mother, however. She obviously has a particularly fidgety baby that she may need extra guidance in disciplining before she brings him on a plane.

and just as certainly, some don't.

Frankly, as a mother, I've experienced first-hand just HOW many people are waiting to jump down a person's throat and tell them how to parent their children.

It wasn't until I STOPPED trying to live up to the ridiculous presumptions others far too often professed about how kids *should* behave, what they *should* be doing at any given moment, and how I *should* deal with their issues, that I became anything resembling a decent mother.

The standards I set for my kids, I learned, were unrealistic. I had to discern a bit about what kids are really like before I realized that if I was going to be an effective parent, I was going to have to let myself make alot of mistakes and be able to shrug them off.

Last week at the store, Jack was a hell child. Ideally, I'd have pulled him out of the shopping cart, said, "if you can't behave, we're going home," and left the store, but you know what? My husband was working. He'd worked every day but ONE, for the last month, and I had NO diapers, NO milk, NO shampoo, NO bread, and a few other items that I NEEDED to buy. I wasn't getting back to the store without Jack; it was not going to happen.

He screamed for about ten minutes straight, all across the store, because that was as fast as I could get through it.

I bet it annoyed some people. Too fucking bad.

Maybe that Mom's not doing the best job. Maybe she's still figuring things out, too.

Too fucking bad is right. :applause:

when I walked in the store, put him in the cart, and he immediately signed "all done," and then "go".

:scared:

:rofl:

Don't let the fuckers (the shoppers giving dirty looks, not the kids) get to you. Hold your head high and breeze right through, looking for either the fastest lane or the checker who looks like she once had kids. (The grandmotherly checker-types will usually take one look at the kid and help you rush through the lane as quick as humanly possible, since they've been in your shoes.)

because that child seemed particularly fidgety and... given her previous problems... I have to guess that this is commonplace with her son.

When I'm in the food store and a kid is crying I tend not to care, as I didn't care about the crying baby in the restaurant... but this woman was escorted off the plane with her child (how many women do this every day?) then goes on national television with her especially fidgety child and asks for sympathy when she was showing almost no ability to control her child, I have much less sympathy.

What were you like eighteen months ago? Not incredibly different than you are now, I'm guessing. I was pretty much the same as I am presently (save for the fact that my boobs were a tad bigger).

That kid? He probably couldn't hold his own head up for more than a few seconds. He couldn't walk, talk, or use his own hands. He didn't know his own name. He had no idea he was even human.

A year and a half later, he's wriggling all over his mom's lap in a studio where he's been sitting for who knows how long? Maybe needing a nap, hungry, confused, wound up, or whoknowswhat? He's still a baby. I think considering that he was last a fetus in fewer months than it takes to propagate asparagus, he's doing pretty well.

I see little to indicate that he is poorly behaved for a nineteen-month old. My kids all had moments like that (sometimes at inopportune times), and moments where they were so mellow that they looked borderline comatose.

I've yet to read or see anything that definitively tells me that she's a bad mom, or he's an abnormal kid.

It's pretty typical. I think toddlers that age who never behave that way are the exception, for sure.

:-)

United in motherhood are we!

Have you spent time with children between the ages of one and two? This looks normal.

kids of her own yet!!!

THANK YOU GiC for your rational thoughts!!!!

:loveya:

That was a kid doing what little kids do. If he was like, 8, and there was no good reason for his behaving like that, ok fine. Be upset I suppose.
But one to two year olds explore, fidget, cry at the drop of a hat, nap anywhere, experiment with gravity, and will get out of your arms unless you're some sort of superstar weight lifter.
I'm pretty confused about the flame war that has ensued.

*whispering* People who don't have kids of their own feel it is more than okay to criticize the behavior of someone else's child because they don't know any differently.

It's been my personal and professional experience that the most incredibly judgmental non parents were the worst actual parents, but that's a topic for another day.

Hope you are doing well!

:loveya:

though I don't have children of my own, I have godchildren. I've seen then through rambunctious stages and calm phases, missed naps, hunger, over stimulation and just out and out crankiness. A couple of my friends children are models of amazing behaviour, and nearly always have been. And I have no idea why. One child is severely autistic and has huge behaviour issues. There are so many factors and things going on, it can be really hard to understand.

I try not to be too judgmental, because I've BEEN that person out in public with a cranky child. I don't drive, we HAVE to take the bus, they had a LONG day in daycare, someone was mean to them, they dropped their snack, and no matter how nice or calming or angry or whatever you get, they squirm. They cry. They yell. And you can't just take them off a bus for a time out. You gotta get them home. I'm sure I've looked like indulgent mom from hell. Worse than that woman.

I don't know why every child cries. I don't know what every parent has done. I don't know what their day has been like. I don't know anything about it.




Aaaaaaaaaaaaanyway
I'm doing pretty okish.
You?

I'm great. I went to dinner tonight with a friend at a really nice restaurant and *horrors* there was a crying baby!!!!!!

I didn't even really notice the baby because I was focused on talking to my friend, but given the threads today, I did notice it.

It didn't ruin my night. THe parents had done all the right things, but when the food came the baby was 'all done' (to quote JackMN)

What should they do? They did the best they could. They gulped down their food, apologized profusely to me and my friend even though we told them that we had kids and didn't care.

And, me, total beyotch that I am, I picked up their check. I know from my own baby days that the times you go out to eat are few and far between and they probably looked forward to it for a long time and felt it was ruined by the baby. Never mind that we went early (5:30 ish) because it is a very popular restaurant that doesn't take reservations for parties under 6.

So now, they get to go out again and I hope they have a great time. Tolerance. More people should practice it.

the comments about doing kid things until your kid is old enough or whatever kind of bug me a bit.
If you're a single parent who has trouble finding a babysitter, maybe sometimes you just need to get out anyway every now and then. Just because you have a fidgety child doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to travel for what could very well be something very very important. Most parents I know try to be pretty understanding and considerate of people without children. They try to keep their kids out of the way, quiet and well behaved. They try to limit their children to venues and activities which are appropriate and interesting for everyone involved. I think it's unreasonable to expect so much consideration from parents and be so unable to provide the same in return.

I've read too many comments about "brats" and the mothers who refuse to physically restrain their children.

According to some posters here, if you don't drug your child you're a bad parent. (You know that comment didn't go over well with me.)

A lot of these comments don't seem to be about raising children, they seem to be about making sure no one else has to know you're raising children.

in a closet somewhere, allowing them out once they've reached the age of majority.

I'd thought we'd long moved past the days of having children seen and not heard.

When people continue to shop with out-of-control kids in stores, they're in effect telling the kid, "It's OK if you do this in the store."

Hell, the child might even get a treat on the way out in the check-out line--more reward for less than stellar behavior.

as I did when I had an infant/toddler. I had one day a week off of work, I was a single parent who couldn't afford to pay for a babysitter in addition to the daycare I already paid for AND I lived 20 miles from the nearest grocery store. At the time I couldn't afford a washing machine either so our shopping day was also laundry day.

Once a week my daughter and I would drive into town together (besides what I already did with work), we'd wash and dry the laundry, we would eat lunch, we would pick up books and movies at the local library, we would play at the local park so she could get some sunshine and some fresh air and then we would shop for groceries. If she was cranky and crying all I could really do was hold and comfort her for a few minutes. I couldn't afford to stop shopping and come back another time without her. I couldn't afford to hire a babysitter-money I didn't have. I couldn't afford to use more gas and it would have been a waste. And yes, she did get a treat at the store then-even if she was crying. Why? Because compared to the "townies" I knew we wouldn't be back for another week. As a toddler she was often given a new stuffed animal or a new board book to look at in the car on the drive home and she was given a box of animal crackers for her big treat after her bath as a reward for dealing with a long day.

Think about a situation like that-would you rather the parent just go home and not have any food in the home for the next week? Or should they take more money out for gas from their already tight budget and take out a cash advance on their credit card for a babysitter so you don't have to see or hear their children?

Some people are bad parents. Others are just in situations that until you've been there you'll never understand. My neighbor out in the country (1/4 mile down the road)was married and her husband was military but TDY for quite a few months. At one point her car died. She didn't know anyone and she had two young children of her own. In exchange for using her washer twice a month I drove her and her children (along with my child) into town so we could all buy our groceries. She did what we did-turns out she always did it that way as a country girl-she crammed everything into a few short hours. And yes, our children were exhausted and cranky by the time we got to the grocery store but that's life. We did this for a couple of months until she had the money to fix her car.

when they've never raised a kid?

Those "experts" are in for a rude awakening should their childless circumstances change.

Kids are kids. And every kid is different. And every situation is different. And every parent/family is different. What works for one, may not necessarily work for another. Two kids, same circumstances, same upbringing, same parent and you could get two wildly different sets of behaviours.

:loveya:

Did someone sprinkle anti-kid powder in their drinks at lunch??

:hi:

Everyone always believes that THEIR kid will be perfect. THEY will be the absolute BEST parents. They won't make the same mistakes everyone else has made (since the beginning of time).

I think there's a reason so many people are opting to be childless. And it's probably a good thing, in the end.

every having owned one. It's fucking priceless. Stupid, yet priceless.

As someone in GD said to me via PM yesterday, it has really increased her ignore list. So much for the Democratic 'Big Tent'.

pssssssst ---- check this out: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=6717985&mesg_id=6718005

You might want to claim to have bad kids.

:rofl:

:rofl:

Good for him!

I told EVERYONE who had told me to bite him back, and amazingly :eyes: none of them had much to say to defend their shitty-ass advice!

:thumbsup:

That kid's lucky to still have hands and teeth as far as I'm concerned.

Thank you Lara!

:thumbsup:

I'm not really sure what is up with the kid/mom bashing going on here these days...

:yourock:

great post!

:thumbsup:

about WHO Diane Sawyer is... :rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl:

:evilgrin:

Is it too much to ask people to either control their kids or not bring them into such a situation? I would ask no less of my own mother, and I would hope she did not have the gall to bring a squirming me anywhere at that age. It isn't the child's fault, but I do blame the mother.

:evilgrin:

I hope you meant that in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way.

"Shut up, kid.
Get in the back of the patrol car."

Or else I woulda turned you over my knee and spanked ya!

Wait... is that allowed anymore?

C'mon... ;)

Unless you're in... never mind. ;)

Come here...

:P

On edit: I really want to beat a rug. ;)

:evilgrin:

Ignore was added today.

She had to get home WITH her child.

God, the mindset of the childless on this site is fucking ridiculous.

Maybe she could do like the mother in the old MASH episode and break his neck to keep him quiet?

She had her hands on him the entire time! She pulled him off the table and onto her lap.

Zero attempt?

That was absolutely, perfectly normal baby behavior.

know baby behavior darling.

I love ya, Midlo, I really, really do, but we disagree on this, and I don't appreciate being told that my opinion, because it is different from yours, is baseless or ignorant. I assure you it isn't.

Although we disagree, I do recognize that one can hold a range of opinions on any matter, including this one, and that there is a veritable rainbow spectrum of approaches.

The video I watched showed a mom trying to control a baby, apologizing for her inability to do so.

I didn't see her just sitting there 'all Madonna like".

And, my comment, to LiW, which I edited, is more a reflection of some of the astounding ignorance I've seen in this thread as well as the others about this issue.

edit: I didn't mean you. :hug:

And I still love you anyway. :P

I'm at work and not where I can watch the video again to double-check my take on it (I watched it live on TV this morning), but my impression was that she really didn't do very much to try to calm/control the child. And, I don't think her apologizing for the boy's behavior redeems her at all (in fact, that's a flaw I see with a lot of parents who let their kids go nuts and then look around helplessly at everyone going "gee, sorry," which makes me mad not at the child, but at the parent for being so clueless). I will watch it again tonight when I get home, and see if my impression changes.

I absolutely respect your opinion (and your experience) in this area, but I just didn't see that actions in the interview in the same way you did. Considering it follows on an alleged similar incident where the child was out of control (and of which we've heard ONLY the mother's side of events), it certainly gives one pause.

:hug: :loveya:

Maybe rolled him up in a sheet or something and sat on him.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Sorry, I just disagree. :shrug:

with toy after toy from Diane and Chris Cuomo?

Seriously, what should she have done? He was on her lap, but like any other normal 19month old, wanted to get down to see the area that was new to him.

I just don't see what she did wrong here? :shrug:

you know, so they can't move their arms at all... then you sit or lie on them.

That'll stop them squirming!

baby burrito, though I don't think that would have done any good.

//Remembers that age only too well.

rewarded consistently. It's understandable that they didn't want the kid to freak out in some kind of tantrum on TV, but if that's the way the kid is handled on a normal basis, he and his mom will have more problems in the future.

:rofl:

other than the US that had such a negative attitude about children being in public.

There is something wrong with our culture.

And many don't behave in public*, hence the negative attitude.

*Disclaimer: This remark does not include the perfectly behaved angelic progeny of people reading this post.

If you are referring to indulged as material goods, I would say you are 100% correct, but indulging to me means more than throwing a new iPod at a child.

I think a lot of parents are so exhausted from working 50 plus hours a week that they throw the newest toy at Julie and Johnny as a form of attention when the kid just wants to talk.

JMHO. YMMV.

We just have an overall resentment of children here. It's not the case in other cultures. I wish everyone here had a chance to experience that.

Baby Tolerance Quiz:

1. If you see a mom and a screaming baby standing in the customs line at an airport, what runs through your head?

2. Guess the caption on the back of this postcard:

When I worked in gym daycare I sat with a little kid named Talik for one day (only one, thank God). Talik was built like a half-pint pit bull...he was almost "cut", as they say in gym lingo, even at two years of age. Talik's main objective in life seemed to be to sit on all the other children, and all he did all morning was go from one child to the next and sit on them until they squealed. I finally got half the kids in one corner tossing the ball, and another half of the kids in the other corner coloring, including Talik whom I thought might quit trying to sit on everyone if he had some other focus. I turned my back on Talik for a moment to retrieve the ball and when I turned back around Talik had what looked like blood streaming out of his mouth and down his chin; I'll never forget how my heart shot into my throat as I ran over there and opened his mouth, in which I found a broken red crayon tucked into his cheek ...thank god he didn't choke on it. I really try not to judge parents after that experience of working in daycare knowing how hard to handle some kids can be and how forceful their personalities can be even at such a young age.

I thought at first it was just judgmental BS, but now I just think that a lot of people simply have no idea, and have unreasonable expectations of how a 19 month old should be. I'm surprised that so many people would expect a child this age to just sit quietly, like an older child or adult. I watched this video. It was a typical, squirmy 19 month old baby. It was handled the only way it really can be handled. I don't get what the problem is.

years old? I've always wondered this.

so I suppose that makes me 385 months old? ;)

And, yes, I can walk and talk, thank you. :P

:hug:

seem to be able to behave herself on the internet!