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Floyd Landis Junior, aka Alexandre Vinokourov, is an asshole.

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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:33 PM
Original message
Floyd Landis Junior, aka Alexandre Vinokourov, is an asshole.
Edited on Tue Jul-24-07 02:38 PM by Squatch
The dude has an amazing come-from-behind stage win yesterday in the Pyrennees just as everybody was saying he was out of the race (for all intents and purposes, he was). My first thought was...hmm, I seem to recall a similar win last year by a certain American cyclist...

Then today, it's announced that he tested positive for blood doping which prompted the ENTIRE Astana team to drop out. That means Andreas Klöden (currently 5th in the GC) and Paolo Savoldelli, two of my favorite riders, are out.

:wtf:
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Floyd is innocent. And why is Kloden riding with Astana, anyway?
Vino had the leadership of Astana locked up. Why did Kloden sign with them?
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Guilty until proven innocent with the USADA
Floyd's case is still in arbitration, but his positive results are probably going to stick.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. i still don't believe anything that comes out of Chatenay-Malabry or L'Equipe
I don't understand why they asked Astana to withdraw before the B sample comes back.
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I thought the resignation was given freely by Astana
did the Tour organizers ask for it?
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. theTour asked first..you want to look at coincidences, look at the leak
Chatenay-Malabry does the test, L'Equipe gets the story, and then the Tour asks Astana to leave.

Why that lab is still allowed anywhere near professional cycling is a complete mystery. They probably pulled some of Lance's 1999 blood.
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yeah...I'm with you.
Every incriminating result used against LA was leaked through L'Equipe rather than through official channels.

BUT...we can't claim that this is a witch-hunt against American cyclists anymore.
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seemunkee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Yes
"Informed by the Astana management, the organisers of the Tour de France invited the team to withdraw, which was immediately accepted."
From velonews.com
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Yeah, all that synthetic testosterone got their by accident.
:rofl:
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. That was his pretty much the point of contention in his arbitration
Namely, Floyd's testosterone levels are naturally high and it was probably a f-up on the part of the lab (with demonstrably lax testing procedures) that caused the erroneous results. His arbitration was going well, imho, UNTIL his manager threatened Greg Lemond.

He almost had me believing him, but now I'm on the fence.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. "Floyd's testosterone levels were naturally high."
See, the way they test this is, they compare the level of testosterone with epitestosterone. A high ratio indicates doping. Now a smart steroid user might get around this by doping with a natural ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone. What Landis didn't know was that scientists are smarter then he is, and figured out another way to figure it out. They got an accurate mass of Landis's testosterone, and effectively carbon dated it. The lack of C-14 meant that it had to have come from petroleum, not Landis's gonads. Ergo, he was doping.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. you're assuming the test itself was clean, which it almost certainly was not
that lab has a long history of extremely lax testing procedures (chain of custody, sample handling, etc).

the scientists may be smart, but the technicians running the tests are unbelievably sloppy.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. and they got the backup sample wrong to, eh?
And his own personal physician?
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. There's no C-14 in petroleum?
Or, are you talking the low ratio of C-14 to C-12 which would indicate a very old source of that synthetic testosterone, ergo petroleum.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. A very low ratio.
Edited on Tue Jul-24-07 03:32 PM by Bornaginhooligan
Petroleum.

In fact, I think they synthesize testosterone from natural cholesterol. So the synthetic part would have been one of the methyl groups, I assume.
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Gotcha.
I wasn't aware that synthetic testosterone could be found in a barrel of light sweet crude. :)
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Dino Balls
:bounce:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Synthetic chemicals are almost entirely petroleum based.
So synthetic chemicals, aspirin, taxol, synthetic steroids, etc. are likewise petroleum based, and are going to have a low carbon-14 ratio. Even compounds that rely on partial synthesis, like testosterone.
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Now I remember why I didn't do so well in organic chemistry
"In fact, I think they synthesize testosterone from..."
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. So did Landis.
Apparently.

:shrug:
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Bwahahaha
:rofl:
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. and people call weightlifters dumb
jeez
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. Vinokourov is the Enver Hoxha of cycling
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. OK...I just read that entire wiki entry on Hoxha...
:crazy:

...and I'm still not getting the reference.

:rofl:
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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Nice...........
You're Dennis Miller trying to get back into our good graces, aren't you?
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. LOL! Ever since hearing him mention Enver Hoxha, the name's been my meme.
:rofl:

I'd never heard of the guy before Miller mentioned it.
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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-24-07 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. He got booted for a blood transfusion?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news

:wtf: indeed.
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