A serious question for the lounge...

I have a bit of a moral dilemna going on and I would appreciate some other progressives thoughts and inputs.

I need to pay for medical school, it isnt cheap but if I want to go I gots to pay, so here is the Dilemna.

The US Navy will pay for it completely, pay a stipend of 1600 bucks a month while in med school, and pay me a very competitive wage for the 6 years I will be required to serve. So, unlike most doctors, I will graduate with NO debt, be paid nearly the same, have no expenses so will be able to save money, and have an adventure at the same time. I will be saving lives, and will NOT be in combat. I will not have a gun, I will only be a doctor. I may not even ever go to Iraq/Iran/afghanistan at all.

The downsides are that I will be a part of the machine that the Bush admin is using for their own evil and I will be away from my loved ones for extended times. That last one is oddly, the hardest part for me to get over. I dearly love my GF, she is not happy about me spending so much time away, and I am sure I would not enjoy being away from her either. But, she understands also that I have to pay for it somehow, and this is a good opportunity to do just that.

so, I have quite a dilemna here. As against the war as I am, I am not against individual servicemen, just the politicians using them for gain. And, there is the away time, etc..

So just give me your wisdom, thanks.

Can you get the Coast Guard to pay for medical school?

I have not asked. I should though, that is a good idea.

You would more than likely be deployed domestically, etc. etc. etc.

My ex's cousin enlisted in the coast guard. Of all the branches I think that is the one I'd choose.

Sounds kind of cool to me.

And you could look at the issue this way -- with Bush in office, a lot of GI's will be needing all the talented doctors they can get.

Serving your country, even when its being lead by a stooge, is still and always will be honorable.

That when I am done, Bush will be gone and there will be a need for help to repair what he has done to the servicemen and women.

I understand completely why its a dilemma but I can also look at it in the sense that the guys in the military need competent and compassionate medical care. The military is not going to go away, the most liberal of politicians is not going to dismantle that machine so I'm inclined to think you may as well take advantage of it.

Only you can know the answer to whether the strain on your relationship is worth it. Frankly, my first concern with being in the military would be getting shot or being so stressed out that I was a different person when I came home. If those are non-issues, then you might as well go for it. No one expects you to be a martyr. Whether you join or not has no bearing on the course or duration of the war. The real question here is do you want to spend six years with people some of whom have swallowed the cool aid and may be in positions of legal authority over you?

We've seen it happening in the chaplaincy corps - lots of ministers from legitimate faith expressions aren't signing up to be chaplains, and ministers from the Evangelical camps are flooding the system - leading to the many bullshit problems we're having with forced conversions, inappropriate religious bullshit, and so on, and a military trying desperately to get mainline and other legitimate ministers to join the chaplain corps.

As to your thoughts about being away from loved ones - I don't how you could achieve any kind of career that doesn't require some amount of sacrifice in terms of being away from loved ones; not if you want a truly good education and set of experiences, anyway. But I know that's easier said than done - being away from loved ones can be the pits. But on the other hand, to limit your life experiences just on that seems rather... well, limiting.

Whatever you decide, though, I'm sure it will be whatever is best for you, and will work out the way it is supposed to! Good luck!

good luck. we need doctors who are not corporately minded. you will be ahead of the game.

Being a doctor in war is not the same as supporting war.

My bro went to med school, borrowed a ton of $ to go (actually met a girl there and married her, so they have two years of med school debt from her before she decided it wasn't for her), and practically lived on the edge of poverty through that time. When he graduated, he did his residency at Duke emergency room, and is now an ER doc in Alabama. The income he's making now is more than enough to provide for his family and make the loan payments.

I'm not saying it wasn't very difficult while he was actually in school (they also had two children), and even during residency, but as soon as he got his white coat, he was free to go where he could get the right job for his family and to pay the bills.

I agree with what's been said above about the need for compassionate and well-balanced individuals serving our country, and the logistics of * being gone (FINALLY!) by the time you get out. I don't have much to contribute on that front. I just wanted to tell you what I've seen in one instance.

Good luck in making your decision, and best of luck with med school.
KJ

If you can get something out of it that makes life better for you in the long-run, I say "do it"

worked at Balbooa teaching command in SanDiego. They have GREAT medical programs. I say go for it.

nice uniforms too.


CB

Air Force?

Although the uniforms are not as cool


CB

For some reason I really wanted to join the Navy to do this.

Thats not a bad idea though.

LOL on the uniforms comment.

We had this blond resident.

Damn when she put on her dress whites

Watch out. She could sink ships she looked that good.

CB

is so damn good looking I damn near fell out of my chair when I saw her the first time. I have to remind myself how much I love my GF before talking to her.

If you are opposed to it (doesn't sound like it), then find other ways to get the money. However, there are many benefits to you other than just the paid medical school. And as Rabrrrr's wonderful post above points out, there are benefits to the country in having good people serve. There are plenty already, of course, but one more always helps.

I would say do it.

Two caveats. One, you will lose your girlfriend, unless you marry her. You don't think you will, and maybe you won't, but make sure you won't regret your choice if that happens before you make your choice.

Two, I've heard of many people signing up for the military with certain promised arrangements, and having the military do something completely different, despite promises and what seemed to be contracts. Make sure what you are doing. If it's some form of ROTC or Reserves, where you are a civilian until your education is complete, or at least partially complete, that's pretty iron-clad. But if you join, you are at their mercy. I don't know, that may not apply in your case for whatever reason, but I grew up between an Air Force and a Navy SeaBee base, and I've heard a lot of stories, so I'm just mentioning--be sure.

Other than that, it's a great opportunity, it will include adventures and character-building type shit blablabla, and it may open avenues beyond what you expect. I have a friend who spent 15 years in the Air Force, in Special Forces. When he retired, he pretty much pointed his finger at whatever he wanted, and doors opened. Military record looks good on school apps, job apps, and just about any form of resume. You may even find everything you want in the military.

of that there is no doubt, maybe even before I start next fall.

And congratulations!

and they seem pretty normal (I mean they can walk and talk and chew gum) --- one is a Democrat the other is an evil traitor member of the GOP --- I wouldn't think bad thoughts about you for going to school on the Governments dime.

What specialty are you interested in?

or Pediatrics.

are anesthesiologists -- (thak god for spell check)

Odd that your spell check didn't flag "thak". Sounds like a Microsoft product...

Thanks.

It's not the uniformed services' fault that they are being miused by an evil, corrupt administration.

Think of it as a way to help servicemen who have been wounded in this unjust war.

All the best, whatever you decide.

It's an honorable way to serve the service men and women who need good doctors.

My nephew wanted to go to meteorology school and looked into the Navy as a way to get his education. At the time (3 years ago), there was a very high probability he would have been used on the ground in the Middle East, even though he was Navy. He decided against that route.

the president, regardless how you feel about his politics. I feel the same way about my grandson who recently enlisted.

What if we do go to war with Iran? Things can get a lot more out of control.

"Well, things have changed. Off you go to the front lines ..."

I wouldn't join the military under any circumstances.

and if you have to work while attending you would never have time for a Relationship anyway.

As far as serving as a Military Physician, I would just be repeating what Rabrrrrrr has already said. I grew up in the Military Health Care system and my Dad ran the PHS Hospital in SF. It's a good way to get your MD and a good way to serve people that probably wouldn't get good treatment elsewhere.

I do have a story to tell. When I was 23, my Dad and Stepmom had twin boys that were very premature and were in and out of the hospital for their first year of life. I was living in Houston and was visiting for Christmas. It was December 23rd and one of my baby bros was spending the night in Bethesda Naval Med Ctr with his Mom. I came to visit, but stayed awhile at the Pediatric Ward visiting with children whose Parents were not there, reading, playing games, stuff like that. Some of these kids, and yes, some terminal, didn't have family with them, some were coming in at Christmas but some just didn't have family with them. The staff were spending extra hours just being with these kids, staff that put in horrendous hours as it was. I have a lot of respect and love for Physicians that forgo the allure of high paying cushy jobs attending to the well off and spend their time with Enlisted personnel and their families. Yeah, you get tuition, but you get a lot more than that.

He's a big-time published surgeon now. BTW, having known him as I do, it scares me to death.

He's in Iraq right now. His point of veiw is that he's over there patching up the poor kids Bush helped injure, so he feels okay with it.

I say go for it, it's not only a good way to pay for school, you'll be supporting our troops in a very REAL way, and you'll start off your civilian life a step up with no school debt, a degree, experience, and a really goo support network (LOTS of good connections for ex military).

Many small towns will finance your entire education, in exchange for practicing in that town for a certain amount of time. Not nearly as restricting as the military, even if you hate small town life.

Here is a doctor's blog post about paying off his debt. Read the responses, they're informative.

Because I dont see one.

It was there when I previewed and somehow disappeared when I hit post. Fucking work PC.

Let's try this again: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/09/a_weight_off_my_back.php#commentsArea

They went into the JAG corps. Both of them got their orders 2 weeks before graduation. One went to Afghanistan, the other is in Baghdad.

They'll use you just as much as you use them.

I haven't a girlfriend, and a few physiological defects prevent me FROM enlisting (I looked up the qualifiers), but I do everything else to support the troops.

The medical profession is a good one, and so is the military.

I hope she is understanding, if you opt to go through with things.

:pals:

we are still talking about it though.

I'm remembering a newspaper article stating that soldiers had zero right to contest their being used as pharmacological guinea pigs. And that yes, tests are done without knowledge.

I'd say stay away from such deep negativity with every fibre of your being and will.

administration, so really the biggest dilemma I see is the leaving loved ones for extended periods of time problem.

1. Read the small print. Nothing in the contract is writ in stone. Uncle can and might change his mind and decide he needs you for the duration and six. In short, you're his to do with as he chooses. Being a non-line officer doesn't give you a pass.

2. Don't think for a moment you're exempt from combat. Because you don't pack a piece never means someone won't put you in the cross hairs or you'll be flat unlucky; war's a crap shoot. Ships are juicy targets; they get shot at and sometimes they're hit. Further, the Navy is responsible for the medical support of the Marine Corps. You could find yourself in a field hospital uncomfortably close to the mayhem, caring for tore up gyrines. Or you could be transferred to an Army hospital uncomfortably close to the mayhem.

3. As for serving in this ghastly time, all I do is give you the meme that got me thru the Nam era, Tricky Dick and Raygun - my country is far more than the crappy behavior of its leaders. At its best, it's a ideal worth defending. Further, as you say, there are lives that need saving and healing.

4. The upside: You will have medical training and personal experiences that will be invaluable. You will look back and think, "Wow. I did that?! Freakin' amazin'."

5. A bit of advice. Once you're settle at your duty assignment, find and cultivate a senior corpsman, a chief is best. You can't be buddies; you're an officer, but listen and learn. He knows all the street smarts and will be happy to pass them on to a newbie. Treat him with the respect he's earned and he'll cover your back. Not being sexist here, a woman chief is equally good. Oh yeah, one other thing, never assume that pay grade and IQ have a direct ratio.

life for the near future. If you (Bush-aside) like military life, then fine.

I had a similar choice when I faced grad school. I could have had a totally free ride going through some military program associated with nuclear submarines about 20 yrs ago. I passed on it. Growing up as a military brat I knew enough of the military to know I wanted no part of it.

Don't be too sure you won't be used by politicians for their gain.

what happens to you if for some reason you don't make the grade in Med School?

I spent 6 yrs in the Navy after enlisting in an advance training program. I got busted a rank for fighting when I was in school. I went directly to the fleet and did not collect my bonus. I served in Granada, Central America and the Tanker War during the Iran-Iraq conflict.

Think long and hard before signing anything. The Navy gives you nothing for free and will give you nothing at all if they think they can get away with it.

Peace.