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Ok. Now I'm just irritated. Synecdoche and metonymy-

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LaraMN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 11:38 PM
Original message
Ok. Now I'm just irritated. Synecdoche and metonymy-
what the effin' hell is the difference?

Is synecdoche indicated when a PART of something represents the whole, whereas metonymy applies when something RELATED represents something else?

I can't think anymore.

"American as apple pie": is that a metaphor, technically, or one of the aforementioned stupid-ass tropes? My brain hurts all the way out my ears.

x(
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. So stop thinking about it. Knowing the difference will not mean a damn regarding
your ability to write well, or not.

Trust me on this one.

Redstone
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LaraMN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I have to address it in a paper I'm writing.
It requires that I identify examples of stylistic devices and such in a text we were given.
Not my favorite kind of writing, admittedly.

:banghead:
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. I never heard of either one, but here's what the Internet has to say about them
From Phil Murphy: “Can you tell me whether the words synecdoche and metonymy mean the same thing?”

Both are figures of speech used in rhetoric. They’re not the same thing, though metonymy is often interpreted so widely that synecdoche can be regarded as a special case of it.
Let’s take synecdoche first (which, by the way, is pronounced as or, roughly, as si-NECK-de-key). You use this when you speak of a part of something but mean the whole thing. When Patrick O’Brian has Captain Jack Aubrey tell his first lieutenant to “let the hands go to dinner” he’s employing synecdoche, because he’s using a part (the hand) for the whole man. You can also reverse the whole and the part, so using a word for something when you only mean part of it. This often comes up in sport: a commentator might say that “The West Indies has lost to England” when he means that the West Indian team has lost to the English one. America is often used as synecdoche in this second sense, as the word refers to the whole continent but is frequently applied to a part of it, the USA.
Metonymy is similar, but uses something more generally or loosely associated with a concept to stand in for it. When Americans speak of the Oval Office, for example, they are really referring to the activity within it, the position or function of the President. It’s a linked term, and so a metonym. British writers refer similarly to the Crown, when they’re really discussing the powers, authority and responsibilities of the monarchy, which is symbolised by the crown. The difference between synecdoche and metonymy is that in metonymy the word you employ is linked to the concept you are really talking about, but isn’t actually a part of it. Another example is the turf for horse racing. But the distinction isn’t always obvious and often can’t be rigorously applied, and many people use metonymy to mean both.
In his story Here Lies Miss Groby, James Thurber wrote about his English teacher’s attempts to explain metonymy by talking about “the container for the thing contained”. This sounds like synecdoche rather than metonymy, but Miss Groby’s examples show she really meant metonymy. For example, when Shakespeare had Antony say in Julius Caesar: “Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ears” he was speaking figuratively of the thing the ears contained — that is, their function, their ability to listen, not some literal component. Thurber recalled that he lay awake that night trying to find an example of the reverse idea and came up with an image of an angry wife about to bash hubby over the head with a bottle of Grade A, saying “Get away from me or I’ll hit you with the milk”. That’s metonymy all right, but you can argue it’s also synecdoche, because milk is an essential component part of a bottle of milk, not just something associated with it.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-syn1.htm
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LaraMN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Okay. I think I've got it....
Or I'll wake up tomorrow when I'm actually coherent, read my paper, and think,"what the hell was I doing?"

:D
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. And there I was thinking "synecdoche" was a town in New York.
Hmmm...that would probably work better as a verbal gag. Oh well, never mind.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Yeah, and Metonymy is the old name for Arlington, Massachusetts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menotomy
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. 'E knew all the tricks:
Dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes... and satire.



Dinsdale!

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LaraMN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. *snort* I know I'm sliding down the road to academic sabotage,
because in reviewing the last three papers I handed in for this particular class, I noted my use of the words/phrases "batshit," "dorkish barbarism," "crazy-ass gay bashing zealots," "the argument sucks," and "keyboard-humping corporate drones."


:rofl:
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Hell, if you could slip a 'moran' in there
and maybe a "CALL CONGRESS!! RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!"



...why, they might offer you a fellowship!

:wow:
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LaraMN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Ohhh... now it's a challenge!
The term "moran" lacks universal recognition, though. It would be tough to work that one in...
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. My dear Lara!
I'm supposed to know what those are too!

I just had those terms in my Poetry class midterm...

Aaaaaaaaaargh! :banghead:
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LaraMN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I feel your pain!
It's one thing to recognize what something is and quite another to be able to define it!
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yewberry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
10. Synedoche is a type of metonymy.
Metonymy is when an associated word is used to represent the word it's stepping in for.
The White House (referring the gov't or any politician associated with the presidency)
Hollywood (referring to the film indusrty)

Synedoche is a metonymy when a part is used to represent a whole.
Tickled the ivories (the ivories are part of a piano)
All hands on deck (hands are part of the workers)

"American as apple pie" is a comparison, so it's a simile. In metaphors, two items aren't compared, but treated as identical (All the world's a stage).
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LaraMN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. So why is it a simile but not a metonym?
Apple pie is "part" of the American experience. I'm reaching too far, aren't I?

:rofl:
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yewberry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. You're reaching a leeeetle too far.
The important part--do you get the difference?
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LaraMN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I think I do.
Thanks for your help!
:-)
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Niiiiice. nt
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yewberry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Thanks.
Word geek here, over and out.
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ghostsofgiants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. More like synecdouche, am-i-rite?
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ghostsofgiants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Come on, that was funny!
x(
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
14. "American as apple pie" is a simile. n/t
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. Woah, mind-meld? I was just looking these up again yesterday,
and I finished my English degree seven years ago! I felt like a complete geek. That being posted, I think tofunut has given us the best definition.
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
20. We have only 2 ways to describe things...
metaphor and metonymy.

The subcategories of each include simile and synecdoche, respectively.

Try writing a paper on these devices in French during your final grad school comprehensive exams.

One of my greater "Oh, merde" moments.
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Sugar Smack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
23. Just think of allometry
as the relative growth of the part of the whole.:hug:
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
24. If you take those two together, you'll have seizures and hives.
Honestly. Doesn't your doctor read the PDR?
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