Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The £12,000 Ashera Cat: "good-tempered, loves children & content to eat supermarket catfood"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
 
emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:49 PM
Original message
The £12,000 Ashera Cat: "good-tempered, loves children & content to eat supermarket catfood"
This cuddly feline is not a baby leopard but the most expensive pet cat on the market - priced at £12,000.

The Ashera - billed as the world's "largest, rarest and most exotic" domestic cat - is the size of a small dog and sports eye-catching leopard-like spots and tiger stripes.

British businessman Simon Brodie is selling the designer kittens at a whopping £10,796 plus shipping costs - and already has a nine-month waiting list.


They are a cross between two wild cats - the African serval and the Asian leopard cat - with one normal domestic cat, which he refuses to name.

The bespoke cats - which stand four feet tall on their hind legs - live for 25 years and grow to a top weight of more than two stone (30lbs).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=490429&in_page_id=1770
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
BrklynLib at work Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. It sure sounds like it would take a VERY special person to be able to handle this cat...and if you
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 12:53 PM by BrklynLib at work
spent over $12,000 on a cat, would you feed it supermarket food???!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fran Kubelik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. That is one beautiful cat.
Very regal.

I can see the appeal. But that is a lot of money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:55 PM
Original message
And how many perfectly lovely cats die for lack of homes?
Breeders. Fuck 'em all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fran Kubelik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. Your point is a good one.
:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. Very well put, LM! nm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
33. I don't hate all the breeders out there
Though I am opposed to overwhelming breeding in many cases.

The cat fancy has, more than the dog fancy, been instrumental in keeping some of the different breeds of cats alive. They love cats, period. Responsible breeders also do a lot of work in spay and release programs, and helping the cat population get manageable.

I don't think that scrupulous breeders contribute as much to the overall population of cats--in fact, many breeders I know stop after two or three pregnancies. And they are careful in treating their cats. Many breeders do it strictly for the love of a particular breed--most of them stick to one breed, and make the most of their abilities in raising them.

The real problem is having animals treated like property, instead of a stewardship. By this equation, pets become throwaways and do not have the ability to be defended legally. Look at the Michael Vick case--many of us were shocked, but in some regions of the country, the behavior of Vick and others implicated in the dog fighting issue was and remains the norm, and it will take a very long time before the situation changes for the better.

I simply question, in this article here, how some people are imagining a wonderful relationship with a 35 lb., four feet high feline, and are going to end up with a mess--figuratively and literally--on their hands.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I agree
The cat in the middle of my sig line is a Turkish Angora-a rare breed that is sometimes called "the border collie of the cat world" because of it's extreme personality. It's one of the original domestic cat breeds, yet it nearly went extinct in the 1960s when only 16 animals were left. The Ankara zoo and one US breeder saved it from extinction and now a handful of breeders exist world wide-but few breed more than one litter a year. Puck's breeder has only had a total of two litters of four kittens in the past four years. I searched for a male turk for the past four years on Petfinder but never found a genuine one. I finally had to be put on a waiting list for one. I've had plenty of rescues and have done pet rescue myself, but I'm just wild about the Turk personality and have never found another cat like them. Personally, I'd like to see mandatory spay/ neuter laws become the norm and have breeders pass a certification process-that way, years down the road we may never have a pet born who didn't have a home waiting for it.

An yeah, I had one of those cats from the OP as an adopted rescue (it was the exact mix described in the article: 1/2 serval, 1/4 Asian leopard cat and 1/4 domestic). He was unmanageable and eventually I had to send him back to his original owner. She would have had a great relationship with him if she had invested the time in him that he needed daily. He IS like a border collie-very smart and very active, and he becomes destructive when bored.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Connonym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
37. although the considerably longer lifespan would give you more time
but I wonder how the hell he knows the lifespan if it's a new breed?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. But are they good mousers? Will they catch spiders? Pity they don't
tell us these essential details.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Would you keep a 35 pound carnivore in your house?
I wouldn't. Just think of it -- even if you are childess, you could not have any nieces, nephews, neighbors' kids in your home. It would also be dangerous to allow that wildcat around disabled adults.

Remember, it's mostly wildcat. It's not just a bigger version of your friendly docile housecat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I live with a 175-pound carnivore
named Call Me Wesley. He's well trained and seems to do okay with the goddaughters and neighbors. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Give me Ginger instead
and we have a deal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Ha!
I'm kinda partial to 'em both, but I have to say, the goddaughters are more charmed by Ginger than their uncle, Call Me Wesley. :rofl: :spray:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. .....
:rofl: Heidi made a funny! :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. But did you break him of that habit
of chewing your shoes? :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. He's pretty much past that, but
once in a while, he gets a little rambunctious with the toilet paper dispenser. :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. I would love to have one (or two) of those.
But I'll keep adopting rescues, thank you. My cats are wonderful, amazing cats even if they aren't expensive designer pets.

I still would love one (or two) of those if anyone is thinking of me in May (my 40th birthday). :P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I've got one you can adopt for free
at your own risk (see post below).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. Looking back, I think that nearly every cat I've had since I've had
my own residence has been rescued or the offspring of a rescued kitty. The one I have now was a feral cat that my daughter rescued when she was 8 - 10 weeks old. She is now 6 years old and has turned out to be a very nice kitty and keeps my place mouse-free. She's quite the homebody now, but from time to time her wild beginnings show up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Once-feral cats never fully loose that feral-ness.
But they can still be wonderful little beasts. :)

I questioned, and second guessed, before taking in all three of my current cats. And I definitely made the right choice. They're absolutely awesome, amazing cats. I'm very glad I have all three of them.

I love Maine Coons, because my first cat was a Maine Coon. If I had a choice I'd definitely get more. But I can't imagine turning down a stray or rescue who wanted to adopt me. So I guess I'll only get another Maine Coon if one adopts me someday. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. I have a Maine Coon, though I'm ashamed to say that he wasn't a rescue
I went to a cat show to view the rescues from five different rescue groups, and somehow came home with Oberon-a "pet quality" Maine Coon. I had wanted a companion for my elderly rescue kitty Miro, who was grieving the loss of Peewee, yet another rescue that I had raised since he was only a few days old. I didn't even know what breed of cat Oberon was-I just had a gut feeling that he would be the perfect companion for Miro-and I was right!










There are many Maine Coons out there available for adoption. Just look up the breed on Petfinder-of visit breeder's sites to find a retired show cat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TommyO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. My Maine Coon was adopted from a shelter, and is the most amazing cat
that has ever had me as it's keeper. I love when he cuddles up with me on the sofa while watching Heroes, or nuzzles up against me when I sleep. Damn, now I need to find him in this mansion (OK, it's just a three-level townhouse) of mine and give him a big hug. I know he wants it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Oberon is the same way-a total snugglepuss
Edited on Mon Oct-29-07 04:37 PM by Lorien
he's great to spoon with in the winter because he's so massive and such a gentle guy. I used to do fostering for a pet rescue group, and Oberon would act as a surrogate "dad" for all the kittens that came through. He washed them, taught them good manners and would break up squabbles. They all found homes and became beloved pets in part, I believe, because of the good example he set for all of them. They really are exceptional cats!











Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TommyO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Your pictures remind me of Guy so much, it's uncanny.
The shot of Oberon crawling through the blue and red tube bring back the time when Guy was a kitten and decided to crawl through the leg of a pair of jeans that were laying on the bed, he made it, but I truly wish I had a picture of just his head popping out of the bottom of the leg. Like every Maine Coon that I've ever met, Guylian is a gentle giant.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLib at work Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. Oberon is incredible.....just incredible...and one of the most handsome cats I have ever seen.
Got a bit teary-eyed seeing that pic of Hekate....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. Awww thanks. He is a most excellent friend
:loveya:



I miss Hekate. I'm so glad that I could save her siblings, though. They now have a really wonderful home together.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #26
42. What a beaut!
My Maine Coon rescue cat sleeps on her back like that too. Always thought it was either wind or furballs until I saw others' Coons doing that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Pictures?
Edited on Tue Oct-30-07 01:29 PM by Lorien
I love to see pics of other MCs. I'm guessing that they sleep on their backs to keep cool (heat escaping from those long haired areas of the belly). Obie has done this since kittenhood:



He really stretches out on a hot day:



The weirdest thing though is that he often sleeps with his eyes open. Kinda creepy!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLib at work Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. He is obviously one of the cats that TS Eliot had in mind when he wrote "CATS"....
Edited on Tue Oct-30-07 03:49 PM by BrklynLib at work
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm torn about this because I love bengal cats and have wanted one for years.
In the final analysis, though, it seems to me this is feline eugenics and I can't support it, however beautiful these Asheras and the beautiful bengals are. I have to wonder how many kittens were rejected and possibly euthanized simply because they didn't meet a breeder's standards. I wouldn't support that practice in humans, so how could I support it in other sentient animals?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. They are easy enough to breed and kittens always find homes
but they don't always stay in those homes (see post below).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. Bah! I had adopted one of these cats FOR FREE
but, he was far from "good tempered" and I would never had trusted him around children. He also ate a diet of raw meat, not supermarket cat food (hell, I won't even let my domestic cats eat supermarket pet food-it's like letting a family member live on twinkies and Pepsi). He would be a friendly lovekitty one moment and a rip-your-face-off hellcat the next. The problem with these cats is that they only ever bond to one person-the person who raised them. They have no use for anyone else and can't be re-homed without a huge time commitment (years of patience). They are very, very intelligent and can figure out drawers, locks, doorknobs...you name it. They are easily bored and will chew almost anything to bits if left on their own for very long. It's like living with a troubled perpetual two year old.

He's back with the woman who raised him now. But if anyone here thinks that they want to take him on as a pet, then go ahead and PM me. She would still like to find him another home.





That's a DOG crate beside him:





Happily trashing the bathroom:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Bet that kitty would make a really good DEA sniffer-cat ...
with the right training.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. If he bonded with the woman who raised him
why is she trying to give him away? :shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. He chews things-especially her shoes
she's a pretty superficial person. She won't build him an outdoor enclosure because "it would partially block my view of the lake". :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Wow. So, she expected a passive, ornamental cat?
:wtf:

I imagine a cat that big, especially one bred from wild cats, needs a lot of physical activity, stimulation and space. I hope she succeeds in finding a better home for that cat, and I hope the cat comes around and appreciates it. :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. I thought that she really should have bought a leopard print
throw pillow.

He does need a lot of physical activity. He never chewed anything but food when he lived with me-but then, I played with him for an hour every day. I knew that if she played with him regularly, trained him to a leash, and built him an outdoor enclosure to enjoy when she was out of the house that he would be an almost ideal "pet" for her-if a wild animal can ever really be a pet. I suppose that I could have brought him around eventually, but my little cat Puck was constantly trying to get at him, thinking that she could kick his ass (9 pounds vs. 35 pounds). I didn't want to see how that confrontation would have ended.

Ashiki playing:



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. If I didn't live in an apartment
(and already have 3 cats) I would SO be willing to give him a try. :(

I'd love the chance to see what kind of family member he could be. If he finds a good home I hope you'll post about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Oh, I will. I've tried to find him another home here before
he really needs a place where he can have a fair sized outdoor enclosure as well as indoor space to roam.Ashiki loves people once he feels comfortable with them, but he needs to express his wildness outside too, imho. He already lives with another cat-but introducing him to a territorial cat (like my Puck) could be iffy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
50. I would love to ba able to take that big fellow
I already have 3 cats and 3 kittens at home though. Otherwise I would totally take that cat, wild nature and all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cloudbase Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
21. Just the thought of
cleaning that litter box would dissuade me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
28. Neo *thinks* he's one of these


:D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
29. They're beautiful
but I am not sure that they should be bred--There are too many people out there who would purchase them and not be aware of what to do with them, and there are others out there who only want such an animal as a status "toy," who have no common sense on raising them.

There are also too many beautiful cats and dogs being killed daily because they haven't found homes for them. I know that's an old argument, but it's a real scenario, and there needs to be some change affected if we're to continue to consider ourselves even a smidge "humane."

In a case like this, some law should be enforced, perhaps to slow down the purchasing, even to the point of making potential buyers go through a greater scrutiny before they got one. And something like that is never going to be a "housecat"--they're going to want an outdoor life, and at their size, it would be fully warranted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Having had experience with them (see post #10) I don't think that breeding
them should be legal. They are neither domestic or fully wild, so they will never be comfortable in either environment.

As for breeders; I don't have a problem with hobby breeders who want to keep a particular breed of dog or cat around, as long as they only have a litter or two a year. The problem I have is with those who allow their pets to breed because they are either too cheap or lazy to spay/ neuter, or because they want their kids to see the "miracle of life" (yes, I've actually heard this argument on THIS BOARD). I believe that spaying and neutering should be MANDATORY for all pets over the age of six months. Laws to that effect have already been passed in some areas, but it's not enough. Breeders should be certified and limited in the number of animals they are permitted to produce each year, thus putting an end to "mills". Health inspections should be done yearly. Feral animals will always produce offspring, so such laws would never completely eliminate pet adoptions. In a perfect world, no pet would even be born that didn't have a home waiting for it in the first place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
30. "designer kittens"
I don't like people who breed domestic to wild animals, thats asking for trouble, as I expect tempermentally it will not be an easy per to deal with. And being a "desginer kitten" I fear that someone would purchase it as a fashiion accessory, a la Paris Hilton. Cats are not expensive handbags to be shown off as status symbols, and thats the feeling I get from this ad.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLib at work Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #30
41. I agree with you 100%. It is conspicuous consumption at its worst.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
31. Hi emad
Nice to see you. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #31
43. Hi there billyskank!
:loveya:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
44. Like most of the wild cats, these look like they won't take any shit.
Think your current version of hairballs are bad?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Believe me, they don't take any shit at all. They also get irritated by the
oddest things. Mine hated headsets. If he saw me using one he would leap up and snatch it right off my head! Scared the bejeezus out of me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BarenakedLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
46. They are indeed beautiful.
I think it's a shame that they are being bred however.

:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
49. Yeah, edffing right
I'll get my own good tempered kitty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
52. I'd be terrified. Very handsome though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC