In all seriousness, why is it ok to tell "Irish jokes"?

My mom's family is Irish and I identify very keenly with that part of my heritage. I've personally read family letters from the 1860s from relatives in Ireland to relatives who had immigrated here -- about the poverty and hardship there and here, poverty and hardship PLUS discrimination. Discrimination that continued even to the time of my grandparents, how the Irish were filthy and not to be trusted. Maybe I should take it as a good thing that we've come far enough where we can be joked about but it still bothers me.

and I love Irish jokes. :shrug:

Now scottish jokes on the other hand... :P

Although most of those have more to do with kilts than scotsmen in particular.

what's the difference between Mick Jagger and a Scotsman?



Mick sings, "Hey you, get off my cloud!" and a Scotsman yells, "Hey, McLeod! Get off my ewe!"


:spank: :spank: :spank:

And I'm 1/2 Scots!!

I think they took ownership of the jokes to deal with discrimination. And the Irish jokes really are the best. My family is from Ireland and it is a riot watching them try to outdo the themselves telling the jokes.

the Irish are a spectacularly funny and self-denigrating people.

The only people more self-effacing than the Irish are the Jews.

Of course, like any humor, one has to gauge the audience and determine ones own right to tell the joke.

It's odd. I'm thinking of a Seinfeld episode where his dentist converts to Judaism so he can tell Jewish jokes. It seems jokes that hint at an inherent negative characteristics (ie Why do Jews have big noses?) are inappropriate while jokes that make fun of cultural traditions are safe, for both the Irish and the Jews (and other groups?).

I think it's because we can't control physical characteristics, so it's like picking on a crippled kid. But cultural attitudes are, at some level, chosen, so it's OK.

I'll have to think more about that, but you raise a very good point.

...and I posted a joke in the thread...not that it was particularly funny. :D

The Irish side of my family tells jokes about being Irish...I see no harm in it.

:hi:

not entirely with affection

And we've gotta have somethin', I guess. :shrug:

It's only one af my many identities, ie., American, a woman, a mother, a sister, a friend, gay, Democratic, political, home owner, educated, etc.

I just don't sweat the small shit.

I'm blonde and don't care at all about blonde jokes (well, they ARE about the fake ones, aren't they? :D)

I always pictured a feisty brunette!

Excuse me while I go readjust my worldview.

I don't laugh at Irish jokes. If they belittle or demean Irish people, you shouldn't laugh at them either. Don't tell me to lighten up! Ethnic humor isn't humorous, it's nasty.

I'm Irish, I've got a sense of humor. I've even got a sense of humor about myself. I suppose it's fine to tell Irish jokes if you're Irish but, like you say, ethnic humor is nasty.

is because the Irish have succeeded in America. They're not oppressed, they're not disadvantaged. In fact, they're a great success story.

It's perceived as mean to pick on the downtrodden, but the Irish haven't been downtrodden here for a long time.

edit: typo

there's still anti-Irish discrimination especially among people of my grandparents' generation.

Like people still hang "No Irish Need Apply" signs?

I doubt that.

Are there linguistic slurs used against them? Maybe - it was more popular when I was a kid, but I haven't heard "mick" used a derogatory slur in decades. But when I was young, there were guineas, hunkies and pollocks: and the terms weren't meant as insults - they were descriptive.

In high school, the guy who picked on the shy gay kid, the homely girl or the nerdy jewish kid was seen as an asshole. He may've been popular, but 90% of the school knew what he was about.

But the kid who threw a zinger at the quarterback! Now HE was cool!

The Irish are now the quarterbacks. We've done exceptionally well here and back in Ireland. We have a culture to be extremely proud of, and our Catholic modesty helps us laugh at ourselves.

The Irish rock.

but there are still a lot of small towns in the midwest where the Irish are considered the wrong side of the tracks. Personally I think we're a stunningly brilliant and attractive people and I'm proud as hell to be Irish.

But I grew up in NY state, and have lived in California for 25 years. I've seen real racism against blacks, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Vietnamese, etc.

I'm sure you're right, but I haven't seen discrimination against the Irish in a long time. A snide attitude? A joke? A dismissive air? Maybe... but not discrimination.

I would suggest that maybe the discrimination you're seeing is more economic than ethnic.

and I've NEVER heard or seen such attitudes. Hell, everyone I know...and I mean EVERYONE is some mix of Irish and German. It's hard to discriminate against the majority of the population. Hell, there are so many politicians named "Ryan" at the state level in Illinois it's hard to tell 'em apart. They wouldn't be in those positions if they were being discriminated against. I don't know anyone who looks down on the Irish.

I went to grad school in Boston, and saw some of it there, but not much. I remember a "joke" I heard more than once in Boston...."What was the worst natural disaster to hit Massachusetts? The Irish potato famine". I heard that when I worked in East Boston.

But no, I've never seen the Irish discriminated against in the Midwest.

Overall, Irish immigrants have done well, but under the surface there's still places in the US that Irish are looked down upon.

I mean, look at Lucky Charms cereal.



There is no way in hell you could do this with any other ethnicity and get away with it. I think Irish people just don't give a crap. I'm of Irish descent, and Lucky Charms don't bother me. Nor do the Fighting Irish, or Irish drunk jokes, etc.

:shrug:

:hide:

:P

Just tryin' to get your Mutley up. :D









Goddamn, I'm a witty bastard.

Stooopid computer is being stooopid.

Don't ask me to describe the problem because I really have no idea. But it's being stoooopid.


:P







Did you forget "smartass"? :D

i.e. slow/crawling/slithering along as an Irish intoxicated slug?

Elad warned earlier that he had some maintenance to do tonight. Or was it EarlG? :shrug:









I cannot forget that which is so much a part of me. Nor would I want to. :P

World of Warcraft somehow got all messed up and it told me I had to reinstall it. So, I reinstalled it. Now I'm trying to install the recent patch and the expansion and it's telling me I don't have enough disk space. Well, there's 70 some gigs of free space, so this just doesn't make sense. Oh, and somewhere along the line it told me my Recycle Bin is corrupted. :wtf: :cry:



Okay. Venting done, but still not feeling better. :P

Testicular remains do NOT go in the Recycle Bin.









:hide:

I didn't have anywhere else to put them. What did you expect me to do? :shrug:

You're not trickin' ME into gettin' this thread locked.

thread-locking-ness-icity... whatever.

Don't blame me. :D

Now I'm lookin' for an easy, cheap, quick way out of it. :P

Apparently, we know all about that. :o

Got me!

let alone running.

:silly:

Anyway, I ain't emo.

:P

like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2352965&mesg_id=2352965

:D

Didja know someone told me Green Day is emo? That hurts my feelings. :rofl:

because they're yellow, and I take that as a slur against Far Asians. x( (Edit: Shit, especially that one.)



All DU smilies should be clear.



(I started to say they should be gray, but that'd be a slur against People of Age, a.k.a. Enhanced-Life-Experience Individuals.)

That's the American way, ain't it? :patriot:

I dunno about effective, though — as in "efficient." Lotta us use smilies to convey emotions, etc. that our words cannot.

:patriot:

Just look at the War On Drugs and how well that's going.

And using smilies to express oneself is anti-Merkin.

Y'ever see stuff on dashboard knobs that looks like a treble clef mated with an ampersand? :wtf:

KEEP THAT SHIT IN GERMANY, WHERE IT BELONGS!!! :grr:



Hey, and Teh War On Drugs is going quite well. Drug-runners all over the planet are getting richer than ever.

(... so I'm an Irish/Italian American.)

The crazy part is that the Irish went through their trials of acceptance before the Italians; and my Dad had to jump through hoops to be accepted in my Mom's family. He was looked down on as a dirty WOP.

I suppose this is part of why it bothers me. Even my dad, who I loved dearly, looked down on my mom's family for being Irish.

we laughed at the Germans, too. That's the way it goes. Every country laughs at the others.

The ones who can laugh at themselves are special, though - and the Germans can't do that.

where some of the the Germans looked down on the Italians.

It's just not right.

How do you feel about German jokes ;)

My dad is German-born and my mother's family is of Irish descent, and it's never been an issue for either one of them. :shrug: (Now, the fact that my dad graduated from North Carolina State Unversity and my mom is a graduate of UNC Chapel Hill...that's created some controversy over the years! ;)) Of course, part of that could be due to the fact that my dad was adopted at an early age by Americans (my granddad was in the US Air Force) and spent most of his childhood in England & the USA, so that might not be a valid comparison. I'm sorry it has created tensions in your family, though. :hug:

I never met my Irish grandmother, because she wouldn't speak to my mother for marrying a German. The wacky thing is that my dad is more Scots than German. Apparently, it was the German last name that bothered her. It was more important to her to hate my German relatives than to meet her grandchildren. I think that goes beyond dismissive.

should have ruled the world.

But they invented whisky first.

???

and why did God invent the wheelbarrow?

To teach the Irish to walk on their hind legs.

???

becaue a sheep can hear a zipper a mile away.

...but it occurred to me that my Irish ancestors (on my Mom's side) also wore kilts. & since the Irish invented whiskey, it's not too much of a stretch to think that they also invented kilts ;)

who introduced that abomination to the Celts, Picts, and whoever else was up there back then.

Nero actually played bagpipes (true)...

with a brogue. At least, that is the way they have to be told in our family.

haven't you?

you micks, always stirring things up

it was my bulbous red nose that gave me away wasn't it?

an it was

I try to stick to only making jokes about groups that I am a part of. I figure there's no problem with those with Irish blood making Irish jokes if they aren't bothered by some of the stereotypes in them, but it kind of bothers me to hear those who aren't Irish telling them. The same is true of most ethnic and racist humor.

ON EDIT: I should probably specify that when I say that I try to stick to only making jokes about groups that I am a part of, I am mostly talking about racial and ethnic groups. I don't have any problem with jokes about conservatives and Repugs, and those are groups I'm certainly not a part of!

while digging the subways and setting the steel sky scrapers of NYC to the likes of Tip O'Neil, Patrick Moynihan, JFK, RFK, Chris Matthews, and proper gangland status, not to mention beat cops & commissioners all around the town, etc...no wait, I'm sorry bout that Chris Matthews thing

:toast:

There is a shame upon the blessed land of Ireland, and a curse which we carry within our very souls.

In 1947, the Irish delegates were admitted to the U.N. When they were told to take their seats, they took them to a saloon on Third Avenue. For they were possessed by a madness within them.

Can we ever live down the disgrace of the St. Patrick's Day that the Dublin Symphony Orchestra marched the breadth, not the width, of O'Connell's Bridge and all fell into the Liffey?

When our beloved President Eamon De Valera demanded to know why no one could remember to lock up the Bank of Ireland at night, this bit of jibberish was sent in response:

Watch for Snakes
Eat Something - A Potato Maybe
Write a Poem
Punch Walter McBride

The scenes in our streets bespeak the woe that will soon be our doom, fulfilling the prophecy, "...and the blessed innocent children of one and two cubits' stature will engage themselves with distilled liqours until the tiny veins in their noses erupt, and the Lord will blacken the sun."

We are a proud and superstitious people. The world, such as it is, is saying things behind our backs that it wouldn't have the nerve to say to our faces. But we admit there is a problem. As Leam O'Patrick Fitz-Michael, the psychologist-saint once said, "Before you can solve a problem, you must take it to the pubs and shout from the rooftops whatever it is that's the bother."

According to our history, after Ireland - formerly a piece of heaven - was lowered onto the sea by the angels, special messengers of God went to the corners of the earth and gathered the gentlest and sweetest and most loving of mankind and brought them to live and thrive upon this new land. Everything was perfect, except for a giant who lived in the north by the sea. But he never bothered anyone.

The first invaders to this gentle land were the Vikings, whom the Irish took to be enchanted two-legged cattle, and offered them land for grazing.

One night holy blessed Mary, mother of God, appeared, and told the people that a very wicked witch had cast a spell on the giant who lived in the north by the sea, and turned the giant into a giant girl, and the giant was furious and wanted to kill everyone in Ireland.

Mary told them to warn the others and give them one drink from these bottles. It would make them invincible. But only one drink.

The Irish did as they were directed and, after three days of ferocious battle, killed the giant. And not one Irishman was injured.

But afterwards, the people decided they should drink more frome the magic bottles in case there were other giants around. And thus started the curse that was to plague our fair country for centuries and centuries.

Mary's word was disregarded and the sins of our fathers went confessed, though unabsolved. But then a miracle happened.

St. Bridget, using a nonhuman form, appeared to Father O'Mallahearn and offered a covenant. The terms were:

Stay Out of World War 2
Don't Drink In Church
Find A Rhyme For 'Orange'

The father accepted on behalf of his nation.

We now have one down and two to go. Remember: We can't get the England out of Ireland until we get the "Irish" out of our mouths!

"We come up with them all!"
Edit: She was Irish

It didn't bother him at all, but everybody is different.

Of course, I'd change "Polish" to "Italian" and tell them to my Italian mom, and she didn't like it too much...

I think jokes about certain ethnic groups that are not minorities are considered more acceptable than jokes about minorities.

and I'm a first-generation Irish-American. However, the subject of Irish jokes came up when my sibling, who's dating an Arabic man at the moment, took offense to the Prophet Muhammad cartoons being printed in the Danish paper. I'm like what was wrong with them? There were some that were genuinely funny and some that weren't meant to be humorous. She said well I don't find Irish jokes funny and neither should you.

I said, "You really should find your funny bone as there are HILARIOUS Irish jokes out there!"

This happened when a couple of our friends (of Irish ancestry) went to Australia for a holiday, and they decided to partake in a hike. The tour guide (who was probably of Irish ancestry) made fun of the fact that the Irish burn so easily.

Here's an Irish joke:

Paddy's wife bought a new line of expensive cosmetics guaranteed to make her look years younger.

After a lengthy sitting before the mirror applying the "miracle" products she asked, "Darling, honestly what age would you say I am?"

Looking over her carefully, Paddy replied, "Judging from your skin, twenty; your hair, eighteen; and your figure, twenty-five."

"Oh, you flatterer!" she gushed.

"Hey, wait a minute!" Paddy interrupted. "I haven't added them up yet."

I showed that to my much younger kid sister yesterday and she looked like she'd been punched when she saw the ending.

I've thought about it and concluded that it's truly 80s humor. With Raygun playing fast and loose with the History Eraser Button, we had to make fun of it or go nuts with despair.

We make fun of what we're afraid of. Instead of dealing with our fear, or cultivating gratitude.

I could be wrong.

:shrug:

"So Ole and Lena..." :D

but that's just me

in a way that systematic racism no longer effects the irish.

as they have been incorporated into the majority culture, these jokes are considered safe.

Now I will go pass out on the lawn next to Paddy O'Furniture