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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:13 PM
Original message
Letter from my son who's in prison!
Dear Mom,

How are you. We had Thanksgiving dinner(my second in prison). We had turkey,ham,stuffing,green beans with onions, cheese bread, and cole slaw for the main courses. Then they gave us a plate to take back to the cell with pumpkin pie. It was really good. I hope you tow had a good Thanksgiving.

I have taken up chess in here. There's a wierd phenomenon going on in here. People who can barely speak recognizable English with IQ's in the low 80's are killler chess players. They have been locked up for 15-20 years playing chess for 4-5 hours a day.

This prison is not the place to get sick. There was a guy in the cell above me. He had a hernia, an extended navel. He went to medical because he was feeling really bad, cold sweat, cramps. They sent him back to his cell and refused to treat him. (they gave him ibprofren) He sat in front of his cell and cried until they opened his door. He knew he was dying. Weh I came back from school the next day, he was dead on a stretcher. This stuff happens alot. This happened two weeks ago.

My new cellmate has just got a stint put in his heart. He's 55. He's a feisty old guy. there are heart pills he's suppose to take so that his heart doesn't reject the stint. Well the prison is telling him they don't know where his medication is. He is very upset (rightly so) because he has chest pains and is feeling weak. When I look at him it looks like he's dying, he's pale, his lips are turning white, the blood vessels on the tip of his nose is bright red veins. Every morning I wake up expecting him to be dead.

He tells me last night, "Sometimes he feels like giving up" I told him he should hang on until they release him so he can see the world again. He tells me "He'd die tommorrow happy if he could just see his daughters one more time". The last time they visited was 9 years ago. He writes them he is dying and they still don't see him. (they only live an hour away. It's just sad in here for older or sick people.

Despite my surroundings, I'm in good spirits. I'm thankful that God put me in here. It took me awhile to examine my beliefs to understand my life. I understand why I drink. I believe if I stay sober anything can be accomplished by me.

Love me.

I normally don't put my son's prison letters on line, but this one really pissed me off. I want people to know the state of the prison system and to support the Unlocking America Report. It is unacceptable to let people die in their cells because you don't want to take them to the hospital. I'm so sick of the whole mess I'm ready to hand the whole prison system over to the Christians.

Please do NOT rec this. I don't want it on the greatest.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Terrible.
You should post this in GD as well (or ask the mods to move it). Deserves more eyes.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. No! I'm afraid some freeper will use this to get even with DU!
I'm probably just paranoid but I don't want to risk it.
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Mutley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
49. They watch the Lounge, too.
So, if they were going to see and be interested in this thread, they've already seen it and done screen shots. It's the only life some of them have.
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texas1928 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. What state prison system is he in?
My dad is a guard here in Texas. He has fought long and hard for some inmates to go to medical. They have had inmates die because some guards think they are just trying to get sent to the hospital. Their Thanksgiving sounds better than what my dad's inmates got. I hope your son is not in there long, and he has a safe time.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. He's in Texas. God Bless your father. I know there are guards who are sick
about this stuff. What does he say? Does he where this policy is coming from?
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texas1928 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. He does not like it.
Policy comes from the rank officers and the warden. They are supposed to be there to take care of the inmates. If you have a inmate that is ill they are to go to medical. A lot of guards act like "oh, they are just faking to get out of the picket, or faking cause they are trying to get to the hospital so they can try and escape." And some are but, it is not the guards place to make that decision.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. So it's basically a top down policy. I don't believe they think everybody is faking.
I think they may be saving money somehow. This might be coming from the State legislators too. They may be telling the Wardens they can't afford the health care costs, so deny as much as possible. Like the insurance companies are doing to people. The policy is to deny as much as you can.
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texas1928 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Part of it is perception.
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 01:49 PM by texas1928
The other is when that prisoner goes to the medical unit, and if they go to the hospital, you have to have a guard with them at all times. And prisons are so short handed now on manpower it is scary. There are some that have to put the prisoners in lock down, have them in their cells because they are so short some days. But a lot is guards and rank making the decision whether an inmate is faking it or not. Dad had a little old man with diabetes that was not getting his meds. And the other inmates are not supposed to help each other to chow and things like that. And this old man was so sick, Dad got him to medical and he got a little better, but dad found out after he got back from his days off, that the old man had slipped into a Diabetic coma and died in his cell. The food they serve is so horrid that even him eating did not help him.


One note: the sergeants and LT. on duty during that time, that the old man died got in a lot of hot water. They nearly lost their jobs, some got demoted, some got demoted and transferred.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I have a hard time believing someone can't tell when a person is dying
by looking at them. If they are short-handed that is still a budget issue. I blame the taxpayers for this. They want everybody locked up but they don't want their taxes raised. It's really pretty selfish.
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texas1928 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. It's not the fact they can not tell.
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 04:58 PM by texas1928
It is the fact that they do not care. Dad complains all the time about the ones who go in with the mindset of "They're all criminals, and are less than human" he agrees yes, they did something to get in here, but they are human beings. He feels that there are rules they have to follow and if they don't they get in trouble, and it can prolong their stay. But prison is already stressful enough without having a guard who is yelling at them all the time, and treating them like animals, or worse. The big issue is some of these guards end up making prisoners lash out, which can get other prisoners and guards hurt. The bad guards are the ones who lump everyone together and treat prisoners as dirt, they don't listen to them, pay attention to them, tell them to be quiet and go back to their cell. Yes maybe some of those prisoners are trying to pull something, and they think that they all are. They don't pay attention and really see what is going on. Dad has so many times had guards show up and when they get in the picket, they curl up in the floor and go to sleep. It is so unsafe sometimes it is unreal. I am so scared because he has to work with some of the bad ones and they stir up trouble with prisoners and then that prisoner could end up hurting my father. And the thing is, if he reports them, then he gets labeled as a back stabber and some guards are worse than the prisoners about retaliation. Or the guards get a prisoner to do something to another guard they don't like. I took classes in corrections when I was in college, study criminal justice, and they covered alot of this, but hearing it first hand is frightening.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. All those guards are probably the Republicans. What pisses me off is
that the bad guards chase the good guards away. We need all the good guys to stay and be promoted. I hope your dad reads this new report "Unlocking America". It was funded by George Soros so there may be some private funding for new projects. I watched c-span when the report was released. They had a press conference. There were cops and guards there supporting the project. If he feels alone he could join with them. Or just see what they're doing. I can't believe the Texas guards are still that arrognant after the TYC scandal last summer. So many people were fired, I was hoping that would help. But I guess it didn't get far enough into the adult system. I think if something doesn't happen soon, we will have to consider handing the prison system over to faith-based groups. It's an outrage that they are treated worse than animals!
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Sugar Smack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree with flvegan.
But you'd probably get recs you didn't want.
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. .
:hug:

My son is also in prison, and tells me horror stories about
things I wish I had never heard of.

My heart goes out to you and your son.

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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. My heart goes out to you and your son too.
:hug:
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
35. Thank you.
My son has less than two years left.
The predatory nature of the general population
overwhelmed him and he in now in SMU (solitary)
He gets out of his cell for an hour three times a week and
when he has visitors.

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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. My heart goes out to him
Yes, our prison system is a disgrace. All we do is warehouse people anymore, instead of giving them some reason to continue a useful life. But our punishment driven mentality wins elections. God we're such a fucked up country. :puke:

Is it inappropriate for me to ask if he's in a state run jail or one of those privatized ones? I was just curious.

I hope he's able to find some peace there.


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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. It's state run thank God. The private ones are even worse!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here's the Unlocking America report. It's a large file. It took 4 years to produce.
It's the most serious report about our justice system done in a very long time. If anybody knows people who work in the justice system please send them the link! It's critical that we get police and guards to support this.
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I think this is the report you are referring to:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Thanks. I forgot the link.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yeah, our prison system is just horrible :^(
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. Please do NOT recommend this thread. I don't want it on the greatest.
I'm paranoid about talking about this.
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Lounge threads don't get to the greatest page.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Good. thanx!
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
20. Our state and federal prison systems are serpents consuming their own tails.
They're self-perpetuating economies until themselves. For the most part, they've not much interest in rehabilitating, teaching or helping people transition successfully back to outside life, and part of that is due, I'm sad to say, to our culture's "eye for an eye" mindset. I'm sorry your son, whatever triggered his incarceration, is in that system, but I do hope that when he's paroled, he'll be an agent for change. :hug:

:rantoff:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thankyou Heidi! But even when he's out I won't stop trying to do
something about this. I care about the rest of the prisoners too. I guess I'm just one of those evil "bleeding hearts". I'm proud of my son that he cares about other people. If he was a hard hearted Republican I'd disown him!
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. It's a punishment not many people can understand...
When I was a child my dad was sent away. He did half his time in Huntsville (the other half at FCI... which explains why mom moved us to Ft. Worth all those years ago). Coincidentally, one of my best friends and I met because of our dads-- we met on visiting day...

Anyway, despite his "man up" attitude about it when he was finally released, despite his macho manner and tough exterior, one thing became very, very clear to me after a time--

The TX state prison system is Punishment. It's a punishment not many people can understand-- let alone the courts, the judges and juries. It's a punishment that goes far beyond the scope of what is intended in our legal system. It knows no bounds in its cruelty, its malice, its bitterness.

There are better ways. We are better than this.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Who is "we"?
Cause I don't think many people in this country ARE better than this.

They like torture.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
45. That's correct
Any prison or crime thread in GD is a fiesta of torturers who believe even rape is an acceptable punishment in a democratic society. It's fucking medieval in GD.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. No, there are certain people who take that tack...
I always post in GD and I sure as FUCK don't agree with any of that.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. I didn't say everybody
I said every thread.

Cheers.
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blueknight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. why are your sons in prison?
if you dont mind me asking? my brother just got out last year after serving 10 months on a federal tax charge. he is self employed, and they said he didnt pay enough taxes:mad: yet he and his wife filed seperate and she worked for a large company.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Possession of cocaine. He's got a pretty bad drinking problem..
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 08:23 PM by Joanne98
And he was hanging out with strippers. I think it was for them because alcohol is his drug of choice. He started drinking when he was in the Navy. He got stationed in Saudi Arabia once. You should have heard him bitch. lol He's been going to AA and church in there. I sent him books. He's seems to be serious about recovery. He gets out in 3 months. He's got a job and a place to stay. He's very lucky. He tells me most of the guys getting out are covered with tattoos and have no job experience. We need more half-way houses to help prisoner's move into society when they get out. They are so many that have no family or friends. It's cruel to expect them to be able to survive on their own, just throwing them out with no money. Especially after the having lived in controlled setting where every decision is made for them. Then suddenly their FREE! It's too hard to make it. They just go right back in. It's really sad!
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Beer Snob-50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #27
54. my jprayers go out to your son and his cellmate
i think one of the big differences between democrats and republicans is crime. we believe in helping the person by giving them the means of improving their lives (education, jobs,ect) and they believe in punishment. i remember when the big dog was president and he proposed funding midnight basketball leagues in the inner cities. give the kids something to do nad they won't commit crimes.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. I'm so sorry for you. How is your dad now? Has he recovered?
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
28. I remember our discussion about this..
and I agree completely.
How much longer does he have,if you don't mind reminding me. PM if you need to.
These for-profit prisons are bullshit. Beyond that.
I think of your family often.:hug:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. He has 3 months left. he's not in a for profit prison...
they have gotten a backlash lately so it has slowed them down. thank you for caring. It's so nice.
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lost-in-nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
31. I read this
and I am appalled

oh my god......


I will keep you and your son in my thoughts and prayers......
along with his friends.....
damn it......
damn it



lost




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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Thank you and please pray for his cellmate too.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
34. Prayers and vibes to your son
he sounds like he has truly had a spiritual awakening in prison

the thing with the roommate actually doesn't surprise me

society wants lots of prisons

doesn't want to pay for prisoners

:eyes:

:hug: :hug: to you and him

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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
36. Sometimes I go over to the prisontalk forum. Months ago I found this shocking thread.
I'm reading The shock Doctrine and it reminded me of this thread. They have this special problem for drugs addicts. A behavorial program. My son almost went into it. This woman starts asking about it and this other woman starts talking about the program because she went thru it.
It's called prgrams from Gateway. I've been thinking about sending it to Naomi Klein because it's about breaking the prisoners so they can be rebuilt. "A clean slate"..

http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166294

It starts like this...

Poster 1

Someone gave me a link when I said my BF is going to Kyle Unit when there's an opening. I was told the program used there is about breaking them, and has nothing to do with rehabilitation. What I read on this web site is nothing but torture, and I am wondering how this can be going on without more info out about it?

http://brokenchains.us/Gateway-To-Hell/gateway.html

And more - what can be done about it? Does anyone else around here know anything about this?

poster 2

I was at the SAFP unit in Gatesville, and we certainly did have to sit in chairs with our feet flat on the floor from 4am til 8pm for 3 weeks, staring straight ahead, no talking to anyone, no closing your eyes. This was during shutdown, as a unit punishment for bad behavior, for 3 weeks. I later found out that this is something they do on a regular basis regardless of behavior, though they use that as an excuse.

Our unit had pregnant women, people with diabetes and epilepsy, AIDS, serious mental problems, etc. During my time there, people regularly freaked out, went into seizures from the heat or the enforced immobility, or had psychological breakdowns and were sent to skyview unit.

We did not bark or wear diapers, but there was a lot of public shaming and humiliation. One girl write a love note to another girl she had a crush on. It was found and she was brought before the entire unit, 248 women, while the lieutenant and a counselor read the note aloud and commented on it, making fun of her, pointing and laughing. If we committed the smallest infraction, we were written up by fellow inmates desperate to get on the staff's good side. Say you loan a hungry inmate a cracker, and are caught. You are made to stand before the whole dorm and read a memorized L.E. telling what your punishment is and how sorry you are, and then you write a 1000 word essay on how wrong you were, and then you get to scrub the floor with a toothbrush for 5 hours or so. We all spent so much time scrubbing the floor with toothbrushes it was sparkling clean! It was a horribly run, abusive, shaming program, and it is very very true that every time TCADA or someone would come to investigate, we were told to shape up, look happy, and act perfectly contented. If we ever complained, the retaliation from the TDCJ staff was immediate. Any grievances about anything were met with a torn up cubicle and our posessions trashed.

We went on shutdown 2 days after 9-11 happened. We were forbidden to watch TV and had no way of knowing what was going on, whether we were at war, etc. If we asked, we were told that we needed to focus on our treatment and not worry about that. People were scared to death. They even took our clocks and watches so we couldn't know what time it was, and they took our ability to use razors to shave our underarms and legs at shower time away too, saying it was a "privilege". It was ungodly. I thank God above that I made it through.

kwolf

Poster 1

Oh my... I am so sorry to hear this Kwolf, and I am glad you made it through. Thank you for sharing this.

Poster 3 defends the program..

my husband was there several years ago and he is thankful for having had the opportunity to go there, we are trying to get our son to put in to go there. If you have ever been to a rehabilitation program, i have not personally but i know how the drug and alcohol abuse programs work, they try to teach humiliation and the "snitching" is part of the program so they learn how to keep one another clean. secrets do not help anyone. if you care about the other person, you will tell on them when they are in the wrong or in trouble, especially if it is to preserve their life. This is just one way to keep our loved ones going in the right direction. It also teaches them, that when they do enter the free world, humiliation does exist and they have to be ready to deal with it or they will end back up in the "system".

Poster 2 gets pissed..

Sorry, I do not agree that these are good programs. It's one thing to teach someone to be accountable and another thing to make someone scrub the floor with a toothbrush for 5 hours and write a 500 word essay on how terribly wrong it was to loan a squirt of shampoo to a new person that has none, or a few squres of toilet paper to someone who has none, or a pair of clean panties to a brand new person who has not been given any yet and is on their cycle. Those are not "criminal thinking errors", they are merely kindness, and a few months in SAFP will make you so scared to do anything for anyone or to lay a hand on someone you end up reacting with utter terror if someone lays a hand on you by mistake. It may work ok for some of the men, but this is a very poorly designed program for women, who are usually already victims of abuse and think horrible things about themselves

Poster 3 defends again then poster 2 goes off

You are entitled to your opinion, but I was there and I am just as entitled to mine, and I can assure you that I am not whining or complaining--this was rank ABUSE, mental and physical. People DIED there for lack of simple medical treatment, had nervous breakdowns at a very high rate and were hauled off to Skyview on a weekly basis, passed out after being forced to sit in plastic chairs in "props" for 14 to 16 hours a day without moving, speaking or closing their eyes, going weeks without being allowed to speak a single word to another human being, being made to sit in a cirle while the other inmates curse and scream at you and call you vile names and the counselors smile their approval and write you up if you don't participate, being forced to clap and sing along to christian religious songs on a nightly basis in "family group" and if you refused as a Jew or buddhist or whatever you were written up for "refusal to comply with treatment". SAFP's success rates are extremely low--in fact, it has been shown that more people reoffend out of a SAFP program than if they went to no rehab at all. That is why they have cut back so much on the funding for these programs. I saw so many women come out of that program a shell shocked shadow of their former selves. Addiction is a brain disease--no one can "yell" you out of it, and it's NOT a metter of making people think well, golly, that was really awful, I guess I had better straighten up and fly right now! There ARE effective treatments for addiction, but this is NOT one of them. It's abuse, pure and simple. In my time there, we had THREE counselors quit because they were appalled at our treatment--and they told us so. We had a guard who actually cried at the way we were being abused during shutdown--and she had been a prison guard for many years and did not cry easily. I saw pregnant women fall out of those chairs in the 100+ degree heat after hours on end and have seizures, and they were completely ignored. We werte a special needs unit with all kinds of seriously physically and mentally ill inmates as well as pregnant women, and none of them were properly treated. They were left to lie seizing on the ground or passed out in the blazing heat and if we tried to help them or to even break their fall--if we ever looked at them in fact--we were written up for physical contact. It often took over an hour for a nurse to arrive. Have you ever tried to clap your happy little hands and sing nursery rhymes while someone had a seizure by your feet on the floor and counselors hissed "don't any of you look down!! Group is up HERE!"

I could write a long long long book on all the abuses that went o n at that program. If your husband looks better it is no doubt because he is now off drugs, and anyone would look better off drugs. I don't know if his unit is conducted differently, but I can tell you that if you look around on this site you will find PLENTY of stories that back me up on this, and even websites that are dedicated to exposing the horrors that go on in this place in the name of "treatment" and the long term damage that it does, especially to women.

Defends and goes off..

I do not consider being abused better than getting no help, no. Most of the people I saw leaving that program knew exactly what to say to keep the punishments to a minimum and their families happy by the time they got out, but inside they were changed forever--made into something hard, brittle and deeply fearful. No one is talking about complaining because it's "not a walk in the park"--it is torture, and if the licensing agencies had any idea what really goes on in SAFP they would shut it down in a heartbeat. Sleep deprivation, public humiliation, name calling and vicious taunts, religious coercion, driving psychiatrically fragile people to the limits of their endurance, using mind control tactics that had many of the women experiencing what is called the Stockholm Syndrome, where they identify with and try desperately to please their captors, only to have their every attempt thwarted. Here's one example: During the shutdown, we were still supposed to be writing each other up for infractions, evben though there's not much wrong you can do when confined to a chair and forbidden to speak all day every day. When the counselors would come in and open up the box where we put the writeups, they would start screaming and raving at us because the box was not full enough, and we would "never" get off shutdown if we didn't start holding each other accountable for our horrible crimes we were doubtless committing while sitting silently in chairs. So the women would get all upset and confused, and wanting desperately to get off shutdown, would start writing each other up for things like closing their eyes for a few seconds, or whispering a word or two to a neighbor who was having a breakdown, or maybe even making something up entirely. Then the counselors would come in the next day and the box would be full, and they would again start screaming and raving saying that if we could not behave any better than that, we would never get off shutdown. Then they would leave and the women would collapse in tears of despair.

Or, they would have us speng six hours cleaning the dorm with rags and toothbrushes, and it would be so clean there was NOTHING anywhere to clean (48 women cleaning one small room for 6 hours, you can imagine), not a speck of dust to be found. Then the counselor supervisor, a huge mean bald guy that thundered and screamed at everyone all the time, would come in and run his finger along a railing that was clean as clean could be, look at it, and scream "This dorm is FILTHY!!!!! You will NEVER get off shutdown!!!"

Their goal seemed to be to cause everyone to turn against everyone else, and it turned into a sick little junior high school charade, with everyone plotting and note writing and tattling and having affairs with guards and inmates alike, and it was a sick, sad, horrible environment. Again, I was not at the men's units, so I can only speak for the women, and maybe men can take that kind of stuff better, but in no way is it good for anyone. Treatment is not about torture and mind control, it's about helping people get better.

and it keeps going on for pages. This women who was in this program is scarred for life. You can read the whole exchange at this link.
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166294&page=2

The reason I'm bringing it up is becasue it reminds me of the medical experiments in the Shock Doctrine. Do you think Klein would be interested. I know she's busy but I think she will she the connection.



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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Here's some more of her posts....
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 09:42 PM by Joanne98
If your husband is being treated well, then that's great, but what I, and Pam's lilsis and some others are telling you is that in many places the program croses the link into inhumane torture and abuse--and no, I don't think lots of cleaning is abuse--pointless, maybe, but not abuse--but the mental and physical torture, the neglect of serious illnesses to the point of allowing people to DIE, the bullying and mind control tactics ARE abusive, and if that were going on where MY loved ones were, I would NOT be encouraging them to keep at it and that they can do it and it will help them, I would be trying my hardest to do something about that place, and I might certainly tell them to try and hang on because what else can you do, but I would try to make them feel like they could tell me what was happening and that I was appalled at what they were being forced to endure--the same things I would be doing if someone were at an enemy prison camp writing to me.

During shutdown, we had to march everywhere we went with our hands behind our backs, even if we just got up to use the toilet at night. We also had to walk all the way around the perimeter of the unit every time we went anywhere, so if we were going to the chow hall next door, we would have to march all the way around the perimeter of the unit before going there. One night, after spending the day on the hoe squad watching people pass out right and left, they decided it was time to change our mattresses for new ones. These mattresses, as you may know, weigh an absolute TON and are basically just sacks filled with extremely heavy hard packing and are very difficult to get a grip on. We had to haul them to they gym and haul new ones back--hard enough at any time, but they insisted that we "walk the perimeter" with these mattresses, almost a mile around, and then a mile back with the new ones, many of these women very ill with hep c, AIDS, diabetes, epilepsy, pregnancy, etc, and others had been mentally broken to the point of insanity. This was to punish us, one assumes, for having the disease of addiction. Sure most of these women had done something wrong, but very few if any had done something so wrong that they deserved 10 months of endless physical and mental torture in the name of treatment.

It may interest you to know that SAFP and most other "therapeutic communities" are built around the precepts of Synanon, a southern california commune/cult run by a madman named Chuck Dederich back in the 60's and 70's. Many of his tactics, like the group confrontations with screaming and yelling at one victim who has to sit silently as the entire room shouts insults and accusations at him for hours on end, and the insulting signs around the neck, wearing diapers, sitting in chairs for days on end, sleep deprivation, etc, are now used by SAFP and other facilities like Daytop. Studies have shown them to be only minimally effective for a certain very egotistical and poorly socialized male segment of the population, and to be harmful in the extreme for other segments, but SAFP continues to use it despite it's extremely questionable origins and abysmal success rate. Addiction is a disease, and I have never known punishment to cure a disease.

>>>>>>>

By the way--at another time during shutdown, the hoe squad paid us a visit, somplete with their mobile "cage"--a small, square cage with bars on the floor, roof and walls--in fact there was no floor, just bars. On the side, it had an iron cutout decorative picture of a woman hoeing and a guard sitting on a horse with a rifle pointed at the woman--nice. This "cage" was kept for anyone who collpased or passed out while hoeing. The hoe squad experience has the women standing 2 inches apart in a row, heaving extremely heavy aggies up and down in the air to break up land while someone chants a rhythm. After many hours of this labor, and while being screamed at, cursed and made fun of (and while the counselors brought out lawn chairs and lemonade for themselves and sat with their feet propped up laughing and pointing at us), told we were "whores" and "idiots" and "fat asses", we were allowed to run, hand in hand with another woman, as fast as we could to a truck full of dirty, hot water with a spigot on the side, to get a sip or two before running back full speed. If you passed out during this, or collapsed, you were placed in the cage, where you could not sit down and were in the full, blazing sun with no protection, water, or bathroom for the entire day, and if you pased out you were just left there to cook. This was even documented by Amnesty International as an inhumane practice, but they are still doing it.

>>>>>>>>

THat is a typical comment--if you object to this abuse in any way, you must not be "reformed". I work full time and have for many years. I am reliable and responsible, pay my bills, take care of my family, and devote many hours each week to volunteer activities. Do I have "unresolved anger"? You bet I do. But I do something about it--and I work every day to improve conditions for these people who have been forgotten. Again, I am speaking specifically of the unit I was at (Hackberry in Gatesville) in 2001. I cannot speak for any of the male units. I know we had women transferred to our unit back then from the other female units who reported treatment that was just as heinous.

I do not use drugs or alcohol and have not in many years--but it's not because of being abused for almost a year at the hands of Gateway. It's because I found a workable treatment program for my disease--addiction is a disease of the brain chemistry, not a spiritual failing.

As for those in Iraq--whilke conditions there are horriffic, those folks did choose to enlist in the service knowing what the situation might be, and in addition, if they fell off a chair after 14 hours in it and began to seize, I'm pretty sure someone would step up to assist them, and would not be written up for doing so.

>>>>>>>>

I am going to go ahead and print out this one link so everyone can see it. At the end, it talks about how prison work must be "of a useful nature", but almost all of the "hoe squad" work was gratuitous and completely unnecessary--simply designed to torture the inmates and not useful in any way. One of the jobs we did as part of the "yard crew" was to get huge shovels and go to the giant pile of pig manure dumped smack dab in the middle of the street in our housing unit, and take scoops from the bottom of the pile and put them on the top. There was absolutely NO reason for this work, as the manure was going to be used for fertilizer in just a few days anyhow--the officers were talking with each other about what was the most obnoxious busy work they could conceive of and that was it. Thet sat in lawn chairs eating takeout hamburgers and laughing at us. It was over 100 degrees, flies everywhere, and one girl passed out. She was promptly written up for "refusal to comply with treatment". A nurse finally came out of the infirmary and forced the officer to allow the girl to be brought inside.

Anyhow, here's the article I posted a link to:

Testimony of Viktoria Robertson, former prisoner at Gatesville Prison, Texas

Amnesty International has received reports that women prisoners on hard labour assignments may be subjected to punishment which involves their being held for hours in an eight by four feet cage or ''detention trailer'' -- in temperatures of more than 100 degrees Fahrenheit.

Viktoria Robertson, a former prisoner at Gatesville Prison, Texas, described to Court TV on 21 October 1999, of how women were forced to do hard labour (as part of a ''hoe squad'') for five to eight hours a day in intense heat. If they could not keep up with the pace of work or got ill, the prisoners would be crammed in a portable steel cage -- with as many as 13 in the cage at any one time. The women were made to stand up and denied bathroom facilities, causing them sometimes to defecate or urinate while in the cage. They were hosed off and ''watered'' every 90 minutes. The prisoners were told to be caged meant that 45 days were taken off their time off for good behaviour. A hidden court camera substantiated use of the cages.

Amnesty International considers that such treatment would constitute cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment or punishment in violation of international standards which prohibit the torture or cruel treatment of all prisoners without exception. This includes the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the United Nations (UN) Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment -- both of which have been ratified by the US Government.

Amnesty International believes that the gratuitously harsh and punitive nature of the hard labour which prisoners are required to do is unnecessary and may also constitute cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment or punishment. According to Robertson's testimony, the women would work with hoes on rocky ground for hours. The organization is also concerned about the allegations that women are often punished with the cage because they cannot keep up with the work. The UN Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners states that prison labour must not be afflictive in nature and that work shall be of ''a useful nature'' (Rule 71).

Amnesty International is urging the Texas authorities to immediately cease holding prisoners in ''detention trailers'' in the conditions described above and to investigate claims that prisoners are made to perform gratuitously harsh and punitive labour and are then punished for failing to keep up.
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166294&page=3

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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. prisontalk has been very helpful to me.
I am amazed at how the life of prisoners is not known
by most people.
My son made one of his two-per week, five-minute phone calls just now.
Just enough time for my daughter, her sisters,
my ex (we live in the same apt complex) and I
to each have one minute to say hi and get just a tease of conversation.




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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. It's a great site. I hope your son is well.
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. See post 35.
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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
41. It's obscene, isn't it?
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. This is one instance that the word 'obscene' doesn't really describe it.
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
43. Thank you for posting this, Joanne98...
I think, if I were you, I'd pass this info along to the reps of the district where the prison is located.

I send my best thoughts and hopes for you, your son, and the rest of the people imprisoned there.
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TroubleMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
44. When I was locked up an elderly gentleman died next me because they cut his meds.

I've found out it's extremely common. He was in his early 60's, and had a heart condition. They cut his meds because they "jail doctor" hadn't approved them yet, although he already had an outside prescription. His daughter was able to still fill some of his prescription, bought his medicine, and gave it to the jail after she found out that the jail wouldn't provide them. The jail refused to give it to him. He died soon after that. I was found not guilty (after being there 9 months) and released about two weeks later. I tracked down his daughter, and found out she was suing the county (it was a county jail). I offered to testify, but I never heard back from her, so I'm guessing she settled out of court.
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
46. If the Christians will help, then do it.
Do whatever you must. The letter is heartbreaking.
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Ptah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Appeals court upholds ruling against funding for Christian prison programs
http://www.abpnews.com/2902.article


Appeals court upholds ruling against funding for Christian prison programs

By Robert Marus

Published December 3, 2007



ST. LOUIS (ABP) -- A federal appeals court has affirmed a lower court’s decision saying state funding for a
Christian prison program in Iowa was unconstitutional.

But the three-judge panel of the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, in its Dec. 3 ruling, overturned the lower court’s
decree ordering a Christian group to reimburse the state of Iowa for most of the funds it expended on the program.

The judges said the lower court was correct in ruling that the InnerChange program at Iowa’s Newton Correctional Facility
violated the First Amendment as well as provisions of the Iowa Constitution. That was because participants were offered
living-arrangement advantages unavailable to those who did not participate in the program, the program and the prison had no way to monitor whether government funds given to it were spent on sectarian purposes, and the program was focused on Bible study and conversion.

“In this case, the state effectively gave InnerChange its 24-hour power to incarcerate, treat, and discipline inmates,”
Judge Duane Benton wrote on behalf of the unanimous appeals panel. “In the present case, plaintiffs demonstrated
(and defendants do not seriously contest) that the InnerChange program resulted in inmate enrollment in a program
dominated by Bible study, Christian classes, religious revivals, and church services.”
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crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. I read that today but didn't make the connection, as I
no longer associate "Christians" as a general term, with charity but rather with politics and evangelicalism. Cynicism!

Thanks, Ptah.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
50. Man, that sucks...
I'm not recommending it, but it looks like others did anyway.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
52. prisons are a major employer in my town
It makes me wonder if they are playing chess here, or could use a chess program.
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laylah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
53. Illinois prison system
Edited on Tue Dec-04-07 05:44 AM by laylah
is just as bad! I knew of a man who was diagnosed with Hep C while locked up, he had to sue for the medication. Many men were walking around the local prison "campus" with untreated hernias. A lot of this can be blamed on the privatization of the prison medical system. It's all about the $$$, ya know, and never about lives.

All of this, and much more, was brought to the attention of Director Walker in Springfield, as well as Blago, to no avail. Both, and others in a position to change things, turned a blind eye and deaf ear. Crooked bastards!

edited to add my thoughts are with you, your son, and his fellow in-mates. To treat human beings, and YES, incarcerated folks ARE humans, in such a fashion, is reprehensible. As I said, the powers that be, don't give a damn, though.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
56. kick
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