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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:21 AM
Original message
HELP! Dog people, need advice.
Edited on Tue Dec-04-07 10:30 AM by janesez
Well, we've had Molly for a few days now, and in a lot of ways she's a great dog. She's completely housebroken, has never had a single accident, and she's intelligent (she learns everything really quickly) and very sweet. There is one major problem that we can't find a solution for. It's the previous furry inhabitants of the home - our two cats. Molly chases them without fail whenever she sees them. We had them shut up in one room for the first 4 days Molly was there, and we felt so guilty because they didn't get to interact with us at all and they're used to spending a LOT of time with us. So we thought we'd try an upstairs/downstairs solution with a baby gate, giving the cats free roaming upstairs (especially at night when we're sleeping, because they've always slept with us) and the dog free roaming downstairs.

Unfortunately, Molly stands at the top of the stairs and freaks out when the cats are out, and when they hide, she stands there and whimpers. She did it for 2 hours last night. We then took her downstairs and gently put her in her crate and soothed her, then went back to bed. She went BALLISTIC down there. Which is weird, because she likes her crate and hasn't shown signs of separation anxiety before. Eventually, we had to shut the cats up again and let her upstairs with us, which I know reinforces her bad behavior, but it was 2AM and we had to get up at 7.

My husband is really of the opinion that we should just open up the baby gate and let them meet each other. Molly is 1 year old (the vet confirmed, along with telling us she has hookworm and mange - she's being treated for both) and still has a lot of puppy in her. Her reaction to the cats isn't agressive, more like wanting to chase and play.

I am worried about safety of both dog and cats. I know dogs that have been partially blinded by a cat's swipe, and both of ours have their claws. I'm also worried about the other way around - if the cats start to run, Molly's kill instinct could kick in, even if she's been trying to be playful prior to that moment.

I don't know what to do, but we are exhausted and feeling guilty about all possible scenarios. HELP!

And new pics:



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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think Molly
just wants to play!

The cats probably aren't to thrilled about the prospect, though. In my experience, cats - especially in the house, can ALWAYS get away from dogs.

My dogs will STILL for no apparent reason, "chase the cat". Of course, the cat will play catch with their tail and sometimes stalk THEM so who knows? Maybe it's some weird game of tag.

I say let 'em meet.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Exactly!
My rescue doggie (and am lucky to know almost all of her previous history) was raised with cats from age 2 to 10. She loves to chase them, bark at them, and PLAY with them when she gets the chance.

Give them time together, let Molly run, and work on training her to respond when you tell her no or stop.

I think it may be kind of like trying to keep a kid from her Halloween candy: Keep the kid from the candy, she just wants more. Give her access to the candy, and things will eventually level out.

Just limit the "meetings" of Molly and the cats at first, and extend the interaction times as you go along.
They live under the same roof. Let them help you to teach them to live together.
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Rambis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. Time for the big meet up
that is the only way they will learn to coexist. The longer you prolong it they will be less tolerant when they eventually have to get together. It is like two dogs are chained or leashed they will fight but if you take the leashes off more often than not things workout.
good luck-
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GardeningGal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. I inherited my Mom's dog
I have two other dogs and a cat and when she came to live with us (miniature schnauzer mix), she was always wanting to play with the cat. I finally stopped interfering and sure enough, a couple of times I heard a yelp out of her when she got too close and the cat swiped her. Now she's very careful with how close she gets to the cat.

I think they have to learn the lesson the hard way.
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
4. Have another person help you with the introductions.
You have Molly sit, and get behind her, slipping one hand around her and holding on to her collar. Have the other person sit opposite with a cat. Let them sniff each other and then retreat. Then you hold the cat, the other person Molly. That way she sees that the cat is your pack too.

Once you have made introductions, keep Molly on a leash that you can quickly grab when she starts to give chase. Say nothing, just take the leash, lead her to a room and put the leash around the doorknob - she is in a time out. Leave her there for about a minute (only of she is calm). After a few dozen times, she will get the message.

I also use "Leave It" when I see my dog approach the new cat. The little beast likes to give chase, and already has a nice scratch on the nose. I just use the time out and leave it. It will take some time, but they can coexist.

Good luck!
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marzipanni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Good method, except you forgot to mention-
The person holding the cat should wear a 3/4" thick wool coat and blacksmith's gloves. ;)
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malta blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. ...
:spray:

Oops I forgot that part...
:hide:
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Lady Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
6. She want to play!
My Maverick is the same age ( as well as my cat Polo)and wrestle with the tomcat nonstop. Most of this instigated by Polo. They do need to meet and let the cats put down the boundaries rule.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria. nt.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
9. Cats & terriers... that was my only concern for your new fur child
It can work out, but it takes a lot of work. Contact a trainer in your area for suggestions. Is there a Petsmart with training classes nearby?

Give it time. It may take more than just a few weeks. Just be alert to signs of real aggression. Some terriers will not play nice with cats, ever. Not all, but some.

Reward her for good behavior. Scold for naughty. Have you made sure you have impressed upon Molly who is top dog in the house? That is also something terriers can be fuzzy on.

If you need to teach her you and your husband are the top dogs and she is a bit lower in the pack order, do so. There are pretty simple, firm methods. Do what other dogs do in a group. Do what momma dogs do to remind pups who is in charge. Body language is very helpful. Sometimes the message has to include a firm (but not hard and painful) bite on the ear (it's what momma dog does). If that fails to make Molly accept that you are in charge and your rules are THE rules, do the throat over throat move a few times. It is how alpha dogs make the statement to betas that they need to behave and follow pack etiquette.

Get down, roll Molly onto her back, being mindful that she does have teeth and may resist the first few times you 'remind' her you are Alpha. Then, when she settles down and stops struggling, carefully place your neck/throat over her exposed throat. Might be some more struggling at this point, so DO remember she has teeth, but be calm, firm and resolved. This is how Alpha dog reminds Beta I could have ripped your throat out, but we ARE friends, after all. Just remember that I am Alpha, hold your place, be polite and pay attention to my rules. It is amazing how much peace and cooperation that move can bring to a dog.

Dogs are pack critters. If there is any question about who is in charge, there will be confusion and contest. Power vacuums are something dogs don't seem to tolerate. Either you are in charge or they are. Make sure they accept that you are in charge.

Then, on to cats. Dog needs to learn cats have a different social network. Takes time. Just watch that aggression doesn't put anyone at real risk. Make sure cats have good escape perches where they can retreat from dog until Molly learns her manners about them.

Molly probably does just want to play. But she probably doesn't understand the rules just yet.

Make sure all critters get plenty of TLC and private time with you and your husband. Lots of extra effort now will probably pay off big over the years.

Keep us posted. And thanks again for giving Molly a chance at a good life. Just be patient and vigilant for the time being, and make sure she knows her place in the pack. Once that is clear, she will do better every day. She will become more secure and you will be able to trust her more as time passes.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
10. Puppy wants to play
Time for introductions. Let them work out their own boundaries. They will.
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. Definitely time to let them meet
Look at it this way: if Molly is as much of a puppy as you have observed her to be, then she retains a puppy's capacity to learn. Yes, a cat scratch can occasionally get infected if left untreated, but if you're right there to supervise and sanitize/patch up any scratches that might occur, then the danger of infection is practically nil. A rambunctious young dog getting a whack on the nose from an offended feline is a highly effective learning experience.

I say let 'em meet and interact every day--under your strict supervision, of course--until they've learned to (mostly) peacefully coexist. :)
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Definitely...before the puppy starts to think of the whole house as her turf.
Give the cats plenty of perches that she can't reach, and let 'em have at it.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. If you're really concerned, buy a muzzle for temporary use
Let them meet, chase, etc. She's a terrier, so she's going to want to chase. When she's around the cats for the next couple days, make her wear the muzzle. Then, take it off and keep them supervised. Once they're used to each other, they should be okay.
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Polly Hennessey Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. Cats and Dogs
Believe it or not they will figure it out themselves. I have had cats and dogs all my life. One of my cats, India, was five years old when I brought her into a house with three dogs. India had never seen a dog before. It took a year but eventually they all became friends and India would sleep with the dogs. I brought a Cocker Spaniel into the house with three cats. It took me 8 months to convince Sam not to chase the cats. Again, they all became friends. I have two Golden Retrievers now and three cats. The cats give forehead kisses to the dogs and sleep with them.

Have faith in your four-legged critters --- they are smarter than us. It takes time but don't give up. I am sure there will be a few hisses and Molly just wants to play. Once she learns that cats don't really dig play she will calm down. Treat them all equally because they watch everything you do and it is the only way to curb any jealousy. Enjoy watching them learn to co-exist.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks everybody!
We're going to get her a muzzle tonight and see how it goes opening the baby gate. I'll report back! :)
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