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Male DU'ers: if you married a woman, how would you feel about her keeping her last name?

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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:18 PM
Original message
Male DU'ers: if you married a woman, how would you feel about her keeping her last name?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. I hate my last name, and I'd cherish that opportunity.
As long as her name wasn't worse.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. Roger that.
Mine is even more embarrassing these days, as it contains the element "Romo". I wouldn't want Mrs. K-A to think she was a) Jessica Simpson, or b) a Cowboys fan!
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. I have absolutely no problem with it.
None. My wife even did the hypenated name for a while but on her own volition assumed my last name later on.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:20 PM
Original message
Fine. She shouldn't sacrifice her identity
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hell, I'd change mine to hers if its her desire...
or I'd keep mine, and she keep hers, and the kids get hyphenated names. Whatever she agrees to.
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
56. I'd love it if I married someone
who would take my last name. My father only had daughters, and my family history and legacy is very important to me. I'd love to have it carried on wholly, without hyphen or whatever.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #56
86. I loved my husband so much I couldn't wait to
take his name.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #86
89. Well then I guess you would understand why a husband may decide...
to take her name instead.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #89
114. It's a free country. I have no problem with it.
But I was proud to be Mrs. hubby. still am.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #89
174. I didn't want to lose my identity when I got married...
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 04:55 PM by zanne
So I hyphenated my name. Unfortunately, to my dismay, most people just ignore that and call you by your married name, anyway. The thing is,how do I know if one of my old friends from college or afterward have been trying to find me? With a man, it's pretty easy--you know the name of the person you're looking for, but a woman just disappears. I've tried to find old girlfriends, but if they're married, I'm out of luck.
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #174
193. I don't feel like I "lost" my identity by taking my husband's name -
but I do wish I had found a way to incorporate my birth name also.

I didn't want to hyphenate, but I also didn't want to drop my original middle name, because I really like it. I guess I could have gone for either two middle names or two non-hyphenated last names. I wanted to share a name with my husband, but I do have a great attachment to my birth name.

Water under the bridge, though.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #174
210. I guess I never thought I was losing my identity.
I was still me, just a Mrs. me.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #210
212. But don't you find it hard to reach people you used to know...
Because their last names have changed and you don't know what they are? I've actually missed a couple of deaths in my old friend's families because of the last names in the Obits.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #212
219. No, not really. Just about everyone I knew realized I was
married and had a different name.
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #86
96. I hope mine will love me so much
he'll be unable to wait to take mine.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #96
115. :-)
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #115
203. Nothing at all against people who make other choices
I'd never judge someone for changing their name in any way. Just for me personally, my family name has a lot of meaning, and I really, really don't want to see it die out :)
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
151. I'd take your name
but then, what would you do without one?

;)
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #151
202. Uh oh
is that a proposal? :P
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #202
204. sure, but since I am already married we'll have to wait for the "Slippery Slope" to take effect
before it can be legal. But that's ok - I've never been that fond of silly laws anyway.

:o :silly:
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #204
205. Pull a Henry
get the Pope in on it
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Rambis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. No worries
I don't understand why women change their names at all! You were born with the name you have keep it. I have any friends who have not taken the husband's name and their children have two last names.
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cyberswede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
216. your own wife has 2 last names
hers, and yours. :)
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Years ago, I knew a couple who did just that
The husband had been abused as a child, and he took his wife's family name as a way of rejecting his family of origin.

In Japan, families that have only daughters will sometimes persuade the oldest daughter's husband to take his wife's family name so that the family name is carried on through their children.
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. She took my last name, but I still think of her by her last name.
It really wouldn't bother me.

On the other hand I definitely want my son to carry my last name.
I always thought though that if we were to have a daughter, it would seem right to carry her original last name.

However, my wife likes my last name, as her original name was about the most common name one can have, slightly less common than say 'Jane Smith', so I think she would rather they have my more uncommon three-part last name.
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cloudbase Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Her choice.
It wouldn't make us any less married.
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Tektonik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. I would not care
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Broken_Hero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. I wouldn't care
being in love with someone, is more than just a name....
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Inchworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. Marriage schmarriage
jest sayin :)

:hi:
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. She did keep her last name. Mine was too boring.
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 02:42 PM by kwassa
She was already known professionally by her last name, anyways, a name which is relatively uncommon. Mine is in the top ten most common surnames in the US.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. Did it. Totally cool.
When we get Christmas cards from family, we are addressed with the same last name, and she's cool with that. But in her business she kept her last name, and I'm totally cool with that. I'm not sure what her last name is legally (!) though her original last name is on her drivers license. It's not that big an issue really, she's my wife and I'm her husband, just call us married.
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susanna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
88. That's what we do, too.
When our familial, personal correspondence comes, it's invariably in his name (i.e., "Mr. & Mrs. J.K."). When my personal legal documents come, it's in mine. It works out.

Funny story, though: we went to Niagara Falls (Canada) this last few days, and at our border crossings we were grilled quite seriously on what our relationship was to one another. It was no biggie (we always carry our Marriage License on border-crossing vacations) but still, it was interesting. The thought that a woman always carries the man's name is alive and well, at least for the Border Patrol evidently. :-)
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #88
194. Thanks for that little anecdote.
My wife and I were thinking of seeing some glaciers before they're gone. I'll try to remember to carry as many pieces of personal info as possible if we cross the border. Thanks for the info!
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. unacceptable. nt.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. How old are you? Reason I'm asking is it seems as if younger men would more likely
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 03:15 PM by raccoon
be OK with their wives not changing their names.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I've been 29 for 8 years .nt.
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. Based on your posts, I'd say 8 for 29 years.
:P

Please don't post the Ron Jeremy pic!
:scared:
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. lmao. nt.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
167. And single for all 37 no doubt (nm)
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #167
173. marriage is like a coffin...
each kid is another nail.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #173
177. To each her/his own
I never felt like I was getting nail... oh wait, sex thread :-)
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. Both should trade last names
That would be a fine how-do-ya-do.

In fact, lets get rid of names completely. Not only do you get to name yourself, or not name yourself, but you can change it anytime you want, and you don't have to file a single piece of paper anywhere, or fill something out in triplicate. You can call yourself Raspberry Tablebottom if you want. Who's going to stop you? Nobody, that's who.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
153. I have some friends who both changed their last names at marriage
to Marvelous.

Which is awesome. I wish I had thought of it.
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LeftinOH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'd actually encourage it.....n/t
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. It is some serious work to change your name
I guess in Canada, given the high percentage of divorces (like here) they decided to just have everyone keep their own names.

I think that's best really.
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HERVEPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. No problem at all
And my daughter's child (I'll be a grandpop in 4 months) will have her (and my) last name.
Her husband is fine with that.
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HERVEPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. No problem at all
And my daughter's child (I'll be a grandpop in 4 months) will have her (and my) last name.
Her husband is fine with that.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. Doesn't bother me.
My wife kept her surname. Why not?
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SacredCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
22. I wouldn't have cared....
Mine did take my last name, but it wouldn't have mattered to me either way.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. My deal with Mrs R was this: Do whatever you want to do, but PLEASE,
no HYPHEN!

-Use your maiden name, if you want.
-Change it to mine, if you want.
-Use your maiden name, and mine, if you want.

But please, no hyphen!

Redstone
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
48. OMG! I hate the hyphen thing too!
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
24. I think the practice of a woman assuming her mate's name
is one of the silliest conventions ever put into practice. It strongly implies ownership, and that's extremely distasteful to me.

Hell, I think it's silly that my cat's vet writes my last name on her records. I understand the reason for it, but it still looks ridiculous.

I rather like the idea of couples taking the other's name, with a hyphen — or, better, with something along the lines of the Hispanic tradition of naming children after both parents (e.g. Desi Arnaz Jr.'s full name is Desiderio Alberto Arnaz y Ball.) To me, that says, "I am who I am, but my mate's identity is very significant to me."
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. You're kickingly awesome.
:thumbsup:
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. "It strongly implies ownership"
The roots of that are actually worse than what you say. It comes from the assumption that a woman has no public identity. To the extent that a family has a public life (business, civics etc.) it is through the pater familias (the highest ranking male in the house). The pater familias had the power of life and death over his family under Roman law. The idea that women were property would actually have been an improvement. In the time before industrialization, the phrase "mere property" would have been an oxymoron. At least by the Middle Ages, women had their own names. In Roman times, girls were given a feminized version of the family name. Giaus Octavius, later called Octavius Caesar and still later called Caesar Augustus had two sisters. Both were named Octavia. They did not need seperate identities because only the men had any public identity.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. This is true.
To be fairish, though, Romans commonly named daughters "Octavia Prima," "Octavia Secunda," etc. to differentiate them by birth order. Younger sons often also received the same naming conventions as daughters, I think; only the eldest son had any sort of true public identity.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
25. Depends on what it is
If it were something like "Lipshitz" or "Cumstien" then maybe not so much. If it were something like "Koolman" then Johnnie Koolman would be alright. Johnnie Cumstien just doesn't sound that good.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
158. Ok, I'm slow
I just realized this asked if she kept her last name.
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evlbstrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
26. My ex kept her name.
Saved a lot of paperwork recently.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
27. Absolutely no problem.
Why should she change her name to mine? That's just...gross.
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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
28. I did marry a woman and she did keep her last name
Every once in awhile I will be called Mr. and that is a very minor annoyance. Other than that, I don't care. The kids have my last name, so she gets called Ms. far more often than I get called by her last name.

When my daughter asked why Mommy has a different last name, I told her that she was setting an example for her and her sister to follow.

Also, my wife has no brothers and her only male cousin from her Dad's side killed himself and she didn't want to see the name die out.

Also, they're Holocaust survivors/escapees, so who am I to say that this last name should be dropped.......
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Giant Robot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
29. I hoped she would not but she did
I guess I don't care in the grand scheme of things. Tradition is nice but nothing that should be obligatory. In her case, I hoped that she would not because with her first and middle names and my last name, well the alliteration is a bitch.
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Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
30. It wouldn't bother me at all.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
31. My fiancee is keeping her name
It's her name, why should she change it? She isn't property to be bartered or sold, and doesn't need to be labeled as belonging to me. Historically, that's the reason for a woman changing her name and that tradition doesn't need to be propagated anymore.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
32. She kept her last name.
No problems, as long as you don't mind being called "Mr. (her last name)" upon occasion. :)

FWIW, this isn't the 1st marriage for either of us.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
34. I changed my name.
I have always hated my last name, as it was the last name of my mother's second husband, not even my biological father, who was an abusive monster (no exaggeration). So I was thrilled to get rid of it. Plus I love having my husband's last name. We are a family. I am old-fashioned that way. :)
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. I would be upset if she wanted to give it up and take my name. "Be your own person, dammit!" I would
say to her.
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Hmm. I'm pretty sure I'm capable of being my own person no matter what my name is.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I should hope so!
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
39. I would expect her to.
To qualify the statement, it's because my present girlfriend, and probably any other woman I could ever date should she and I break up, is a musician, and name recognition is very important from a business standpoint in music. Two of my friends kept their own names when they got married a year or so ago, I expect, for that reason (she's also a classical musician). That was funny, when they announced the couple at the reception, the groom's mother was a little taken aback that the couple wasn't announced with the same last name - I guess she didn't know before hand.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
40. my fiancee wants to change my last name
because she hates it.

I don't have any special connection to it. But she wants to combine her last name and my last name and that would come out to something resembling Cindarella.

And I'm like, uh no.
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
63. I did that when I was married the first time. (Created a new name from our two names.)
I kept the name when I married my current husband.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #63
91. I know two couples who merged names
In one pair, the names were very similar to start with (like Potter and Spotterson -> Spotter (not their actual names))

In the other pair, they both had hard-to-spell names and took the easy part of each and merged them into a nice lyrical name.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
42. my wife kept her name
we don't want kids, so that's not an issue, and we're both working professionals in the arts, so keeping her name was beneficial that way too.

Plus, my last name is always getting mangled and I would not wish it on anyone. hell, I considered taking her name.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
45. Cool with me.
When I was married, I actually wanted my (now ex-) wife to keep her name. But she took mine anyway, just because it's easier in this country for her to do it than to keep hers.

Then, when we got divorced nine years later, she went back to using her maiden name. Go figure.
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montanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
46. I'd be all up in her house with disease!!!!11!!one!
My wife has her last name, and I mine.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
47. Anyone who would marry me probably would
Because they'd obviously do anything. ;)

Can't see I'd mind if she kept her name.

Also, I knew of someone that had been divorced for a while and then had to go back to their (ahem) original name. Anyone know about this kind of thing? I have no idea on the details --it's gauche to ask, obviously.
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #47
76. As soon as I was divorced I dropped my X-husband's name from mine
I didn't like it when we were married and I resented that he made such a big deal about me taking it, (and that he was pissed when he found out I just added his name instead of changing mine completely).

He was jealous and possessive and I didn't like his last name.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
49. I wouldn't care. Many can't spell or pronounce my last name correctly anyway.
Even though it's a fairly common and simple last name and a character with it is on TV all the time.
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SOteric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
50. If his last name was
Rumpleschmekingdorkenstarferfartblaster, he might like to change his to mine.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
51. That's fine, I plan on marrying a woman with her own career
probably a professional of some sort so she would have her name on her documents and whatever. She is welcome to take mine if she chooses. I'm not changing my name unless hers is really cool.
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
52. I like my family/tribe to have the same family/tribe name, but
I am not attached to it being mine.
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Mugu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
53. It's a bit more complicated question than it first seems.
If I were a young man looking to start a family and she didn't want to share the family name, then forget it. Either we're a family or we're not. Now that I'm older, children are not an issue. However, if she had been married before and didn't have children by that marriage, and wanted to keep her ex husband's name, forget it.

In my case she has children from a prior marriage. I don't expect her to have a different name than her children. However, if the children are married females (in our case they're not) that have changed their names so they're not the same anyway, and she didn't wish to change, then forget it.

People can have legal names that are different from their professional names as long as there is no intent to defraud. I expect to have the same last name as my spouse for legal instruments, Christmas cards, etc. with the exception of children as cited above. If she has a difficulty with that, then find somebody else because we probably are going to have other difficulties as well.

Regards, Mugu
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. well reasoned. nt.
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #53
92. does share a name = take the man's name, or either way? n/t
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Mugu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #92
111. Yes, taking the man's name is exactly what I mean.
I should have been more direct, but I had a moment of need to sound diplomatic. I'm over it now.

Be it right, or be it wrong, there is centuries of tradition behind the custom. If others wish to break with tradition that's their business. The question was about my feelings as a man and that's the honest answer. I bet that there are many men out there that feel the same way, but wont say it. You'll always wonder if that's the real reason he didn't ask.

Regards, Mugu
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #111
117. OMG
Lots of tradition being lots of other "ist" practices, too.

:eyes:
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #117
150. But, you'll always wonder if that's the real reason he didn't ask!
That, or, you know, the fact that you're into vagina. :D
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #150
169. OMG -- I know!
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #111
137. Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

As if tradition--and tradition alone, for its own sake, with no reasoning behind it--should govern what humans do.

Holy fuck.

:rofl:
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Mugu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #137
146. If we were discussing the traditions of some other group,
say American Indians, I doubt that you would be so caviler.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #146
156. You mean if this were an ethnic thing?
I'd still criticize it, simply because in general, carrying out tradition for tradition's sake, particularly tradition rooted in inequality, doesn't do anything good for anyone.
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grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #53
94. To each his own but I don't see why having a family makes a difference.
Just MHO. If my husband and I have kids, we'll still be a family regardless of what my last name is. In fact, we already consider ourselves a family even without kids (and with two different last names). If people call me by my husband's last name, it's no big deal, but it's not my legal name.
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Mugu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #94
110. And if that works for you and yours, more power to you.
I would never be critical of how you live your life. It just doesn't work for me. I'm old enough to be old-fashioned, and if she is unwilling to take my name for any reason other than children from a previous relationship, I would always be suspicious of motivation.

Regards, Mugu
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #53
100. At least you are honest in your control freak paternalism.
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Mugu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #100
108. You accuse me of being a control freak,
yet you reject centuries of tradition just because you don't like it.

You need not be concerned about my paternalism. It's not a problem that you will ever need to deal with, because a request for your hand would never be forthcoming.

Regards, Mugu
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #108
222. I weep with sorrow
That a fine Victorian gentleman such as yourself would never court a lady such as myself. :cry:

If you'll excuse me, sir, I shall console myself in the ample bosom of my lady companion. With vigor.
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #100
109. Ha! You said exactly what I was thinking!
:rofl:

:thumbsup:
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #100
122. *KISS*
You said it so the rest of us don't have to!
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #100
124. OMG, "a request for your hand will NOT be forthcoming"!!!
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 01:15 PM by janesez
I'll hold you and dry your tears while you deal with your grief. :rofl:
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Mugu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #124
142. The OP asked a question about male opinions which I answered honestly.
Chovexani felt the need to voice an opinion about my response. If I cared to know her opinion (or yours for that matter) I'd ask. I don't and I didn't.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #142
144. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
You are awesome! Keep posting, please! :rofl:
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #144
147. I feel like I'm back in the 18th century.
"A request for your hand..."

Fucking hell.

:rofl::rofl:
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #147
152. No doubt delivered to her father
Who of course, would have the authority to "give her away."

Sometimes.... :banghead:
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #152
155. Yup.
That's another tradition I will promptly do away with if I am ever married. It will be a cold day in hell before my father walks me down an aisle (pretentious enough) to "give" me away.

:rofl:
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #155
195. My father didn't "give me away" (we dispensed with that part of the ceremony),
but he did walk me up the aisle. Why is that pretentious?
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #195
198. It's a little strange to me.
As always, why doesn't the mother walk her down the aisle? Why does there really have to be an aisle at all? :D
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #198
201. Many people do have their mothers or both parents or a sibling...
or someone else close to them walk them up the aisle.

Of course, there doesn't have to be an aisle (or any other window dressing), but many people enjoy the cultural rituals of weddings. Me? I like the pretty music played when the party processes up the aisle. I enjoyed the journey (so to speak) to my husband, watching him watching me. It was a few moments of calm and peace in a morning that was otherwise something of a blur. It was nice. :)
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Mugu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #152
161. Good grief, you would be troubled by a gentleman's attempt to show respect
to his future wife's family? It's a courtesy to ask for the blessing of the family. I can only guess the disgust you would feel if he were to get down on his knee to ask for her hand. Maybe he could just send an email instead.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #161
162. There's a difference between "respect for family" and being overbearing and outmoded.
Frankly, when it comes to marriage, particularly of the unarranged type, the family doesn't get to say jack in what happens, because it doesn't have to be anything to do with them. The whole "asking for her hand" thing is a product of the age before families were in very close contact as they are now. People were married without knowing each other before the wedding day, and families could frequently know nothing at all about the intended groom, so of course it made some sense for him to "prove" his worthiness by asking the family for permission to wed. Nowadays, it seems that most Americans, at least, don't have this problem of arranged marriages and families never knowing what their offspring are up to, as well as the fact that they now generally trust their offspring to make good marriage choices in the first place.

When you've known someone for quite some time, at least, as most fathers do their daughters' boyfriends today, there's no need for him to "prove" his worthiness in such a fashion--all it does is reestablish "hierarchy," which, in familial situations, should have gone out the window decades ago now.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #161
163. You're joking, right?
Please tell me you're joking.

No, I can tell you're not joking. ~sigh~

I suppose this is another of those traditions I should respect. You know, it was once traditional in some places for black people to get off the sidewalk when white people walked by. I suppose we ought to respect that one, too.

You may feel its respectful to her family to ask a woman's father for her hand in marriage but I see it as profoundly disrespectful to the woman herself. Which really should be more important.

My father is not the person who should be deciding whether or not I should be married to anyone. Tell me, do you have to ask YOUR father for permission to be married? Should the future wife ask YOUR family's permission?

I agree with WIMR - tradition for tradition's sake is illogical and perpetuates a lot of behavior that shouldn't be perpetuated. Tradition that serves a purpose and benefits ALL members of society is healthy.

As for a man getting down on one knee and asking me to marry him, I would find that romantic and sweet. And, in fact, that's exactly what my fiance did.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #163
164. For the win.
:rofl:

:thumbsup:
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Mugu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #163
165. I suspect that you are being difficult just for the fun of it.
Obviously the couple has already decided what they are going to do. The grooms request to the father is a matter of respect and courtesy. If the father were to say "no" it would not affect the ultimate outcome, only the path taken to get there.

I remind you that I offered an honest answer to the OP's question. I didn't solicit opinions about my opinion. As such I'm not going to waste my afternoon arguing with with people that have nothing better to do. If you don't like your daddy, traditional courtships, or weddings, I don't care.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #165
166. My "daddy?"
I assure you, I find nothing fun about this. You are welcome to take your patriarchal values and stick 'em where the sun don't shine.

My fucking "daddy" indeed. What an interesting brand of progressive we're attracting these days.
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #166
178. There is absolutely no way this guy is politically liberal.
Mark my words. In fact, bookmark them. :)
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #178
181. Yup.
Absolutely insane. Sounds like an antebellum Southerner, not to the offense of Southerners around here.

Fucking hell.

:rofl:
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #165
196. I have a great deal of love, admiration, and respect for my "daddy", but
the only person who needed to agree to my marrying my husband was ME.

Why would "respect and courtesy" require my husband to have made any kind of "request" to my father? And if the father says "no" but it doesn't affect the outcome, what purpose does it serve? Either the "request" means something or it doesn't. I'd say that, as far as "respect" goes, it doesn't show a whole lot of respect for the adult woman that her intended has to ask her daddy if he can marry her.

(Oh, and about soliciting opinions on your opinion? If you post your opinion on a public message board, expect that others will respond to it. You don't get to decide who does and does not respond.)
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #161
172. That's basically how I proposed to MY wife -- an IM
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #142
171. Then why the bonkers are you on a message board?!
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #142
217. Wait... you enter a discussion thread...
but you don't want people to respond?

... oooooookay...
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #142
225. I know they don't have message boards in 18th century England
So I'll explain a little how they work, until you can get back to your TARDIS.

On a message board, someone "posts" their thoughts and opinions on things, and people "reply" with their own thoughts and opinions, sometimes engaging in conversations. Other people can join in and this is called a "thread".

Hope that was helpful! :hi:
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #225
227. ...
and now suddenly I want to ask for your hand... :P
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #124
224. Mine heart is as an empty shell
:P
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #100
136. I love how it matters that a family all has the same last name.
Clearly my family is just pretending.

:rofl:

:evilgrin:
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
55. I did and she did.
Her last name is quite rare, and she wants to keep it from dying out. When we have kids, we've agreed they'll have her last name too. Mine's as common as dirt, so there's no loss there.
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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
57. I know a couple who combined their last names into a new name.
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 05:58 PM by notmyprez
She had kept her own name when they got married, but when they had a kid they decided they wanted all three of them to have the same name. They decided not to use both names, hyphenated or otherwise, because it would have been 5 syllables, and very cumbersome. So they took a syllable from each of their last names and combined it into a whole new name, which is now their name. (An aside: she's a minister.)
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #57
65. That's what I did. nt
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #57
93. (see post 91 above - I think it's a cool idea) n/t
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
58. I'd be cool with it. Completely up to her.
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
60. Mrs Matcom kept hers
and I was behind her 100%
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
61. no problem
I need not the last name to show she is my property, the brand and collar will do that perfectly well.
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
62. I would say that it's her choice.
If she chose to take my name, that would be ok. But, if she felt like keeping hers, that would be fine too.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
64. no problem
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
66. My wife did keep hers for a while, and it didn't really bother me.
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IzaSparrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
67. I told SallyMander the decision was up to her...
I like my last name, and I want to keep it.

Maybe she likes hers, so she should get to keep it.
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SallyMander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #67
170. And i still haven't decided!

Hmmm... :think:
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
68. I should cane her soundly until she doth relent from this madness and assume her wifely repose
Of course if I'm caning her, perhaps she's already in her "wifely repose."
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #68
113. Ahh a goodly model of wyfery wilt thine spouse provide
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 11:23 AM by JVS
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
69. Anyone dumb enough to marry me should get whatever they want as a consolation prize. nm
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
70. She can keep her last name...
But I still come with the deal! :D
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mentalsolstice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
71. Female DU'er: I regret taking my husband's last name
My maiden name is more ethnic, prettier and softer on the tongue. Lately, we've discussed having me change it back. He's said he'd be a little hurt, but he'd understand. However, since having that conversation, my husband's father passed away, so I don't want to push the issue right now...
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
72. It's more important to me that we share the same last name...
Edited on Wed Jan-23-08 09:07 PM by Chan790
hers is as good as mine. (Unless hers is Cheney, Reagan or something else cringe-worthy. Then. ya know, I might have to suggest as a compromise that we BOTH change our last names.)
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
73. I was thinking about trying to marry someone scottish so I could hyphenate my last name
and have the whole UK represented in my name. :P Which is ironic, because as far as I know, I have no UK ancestry. I just have an irish last name through various remarriages on my mother's part, and she gave me a first and middle name that are welsh in origin, but more commonly used in britain now. :)

So I figure if I get a scottish last name... I'll have 'em all covered.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
74. I might take her last name.
I certainly have no attachment to my family, so I have no particular attachment to my family name. :shrug:
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
75. Great! In fact, I love my wife's last name so much, we gave the kids her last name.
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Generic Brad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
77. No feelings whatsoever
A wife is a partner, not a possession. She can call herself whatever she wants as long as there is love and trust.
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Drum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
78. I am, I did, she did, I was fine.
Both performers we, so keeping one's original name is a little like keeping your individual "brand." Nevertheless, I'd be fine with it (should I marry again) as long as the occasional designation of "Mrs. Drum" (or Madam Drum) wasn't absolutely prohibited. Truth be told, I considered taking my (now ex-) wife's last name when we married. It would make sense if you knew both of us. ;)
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
79. Didn't we go through this in the '70s?!1 n/t
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #79
131. Depending on where you live
this argument is still alive and kicking. In my town I've heard women gripe about those "feminists" who "can't make their husbands happy and be good wives" because they use their maiden names, even after marriage.

If I ever marry I'll probably pick up the dreaded hyphen. I'm in my thirties and I have a (nearly) preteen daughter. She has my name, not her father's. (He didn't want her to have his name and stated so in court.) I want her to still identify with our family, even with a different name.

If I had my way I'd prefer to marry a man who will adopt my child. At her age (and my age) I suspect we'd both hyphenate our names with our current name and his name. Who knows-maybe he'll join us.
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
80. No problem whatsoever
If that is what she wants to do, then that is fine with me.
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Roon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
81. My Aunt kept her maiden name
but that was only because she was divorced and remarried a couple of times and she got sick of it. When she married the third time she kept her last name and my Uncle didn't mind one bit.
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av8rdave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
82. If that 's what she desired, it doesn't change the fact she wanted to marry me
I don't see an issue.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
83. We're both pretty old-fashioned.
She didn't want to and I wouldn't have wanted her to.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
84. it would be, of course, her decision.
personally, i like hyphenated myself...but that's just me.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
85. One comment:
I'm female. And I'm divorced. I never changed my real name, which I got from my father, because I didn't want to wake up one day and be "Mrs. Asshole".

:rofl:

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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #85
160. LOL.
:rofl:
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susanna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
87. I kept mine, but after discussing it at length with my DH.
My DH was absolutely fine with it; he jokes he likes mine better sometimes. :-)

I only kept it because: 1) my career was very set at that point, and international colleagues knew me by my maiden name for over ten years; this means a lot of company procedures containing me were out and about, not necessarily able to be replaced; and 2) we discussed the financial and credit impact of my taking his name and HE decided: "you built up your credit, paid all your bills, and you deserve the credit - my name will interfere."

So that's how we decided it.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
90. I've known of a number of men who took their wives of mother's maiden
name. There are quite a few actors who have done that, especially ones who never knew or got along with their fathers.

I'd never change my last name. I've got too many film credits and other professional credentials to mess with it-plus it's simple and easy to spell.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
95. Sorry! lol! I got married and kept my maiden name.
He was "ok" with it...NOT!! (His Dad was PISSED OFF!!!) :P

My ex copped (SP?) a 'real' attitude about it later on... *sigh*

But that was in the 70's when women still needed a man's permission

to buy a house or even get electricity in her name. O-M-G!

I sued about that too... and I won!! ;)

Go Breeze54!!!!! :woohoo: It only took 3 years!!!
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
97. But it isn't HER last name to begin with.
It's her father's.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #97
107. RIght. I've thought at times of changing mine to something else,
probably something in the natural world, such as Kudzu or Wisteria (not really those, but something in nature). I did not have a good relationship with my biological father. But I don't know if I feel like going to the trouble.
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bumblebee1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
98. I took my husband's last name.
However, I kept my maiden name as my middle name. I wanted to remember my father in this way. When my name change was approved by the Navy, one of the guys in my division asked "How many last names do you want?"
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
99. Either way, no big deal.
But when they divorce me, I insist they take their old name back. It's the principal.
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
101. I hate my last name with a passion
Not only has it been the butt of inane jokes since I was about three years old, usually from stupid white men ("HAR HAR, YOU'RE BLACK AND YOUR LAST NAME IS WHITE, HAR HAR"), but it's also my biological father's name and I fucking despite him.

I want to change my last name to Atreides. It's a name I adore, from a book I adore, and combined with my first name it makes for a pleasant conversation starter among those in the know (my given name is Jessica). Not to mention that it's just unusual enough to be unique and sound kind of ethnic, without sounding too sci-fi for getting by in everyday life.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #101
103. Dune!!!
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. You win
I admit when I was younger and first read it, I thought it was awesome that this amazingly bad ass character shared my name.
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #101
218. So instead of having morons giggle about your name...
now only the smart geeky people will giggle at it? :P
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #218
220. Exactly!
:)
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
102. I gave her the option.
She went from mumble Zmumble to Zmumble-Tmumble for about 2-3 years, then after she went to get her Driver's License, she decided to put her maiden name as her middle name which is fine. her Hebrew name is about 4 names.

Hawkeye-X
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
105. My wife has kept her own name, my ex-wife was all over the map on the issue
My wife is from China and women there traditionally keep their own names. She has expressed desire to change it to my last name on occasion because she feels that her Chinese last name can lead to discrimination at times when it comes to hiring. Though, I'm sure if they saw her resume and that she got three degrees in China and worked for seven years there, they'd probably realize she is from there.

My ex-wife originally wanted to take my last name because she disliked her own last name. I told her that she could do whatever she wanted and I would support whatever she wanted to do. I think she later wanted to keep her own name, and then eventually, she went the hyphenated route. Consistency was not one of her strengths.
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distantearlywarning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
106. Female DUer here.
When I got married, my husband and I decided that we didn't like either one of our last names. So we figured out a new last name we both liked and then both legally changed our name to that one.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
112. In a hyphen form, fine. Within a profession where she's established under her own name, fine.
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 11:26 AM by JVS
So she could be named Ms. HAL or Dr. HAL when she's publishing. Mrs. HAL-JVS in personal life, or even just Mrs. JVS. But if she avoids being called Mrs. JVS at any and every occassion, I'd perceive it as an insult. If she doesn't want my name, she probably isn't that commited to the idea of the marriage in the first place and I'd rather not be legally entwined with her.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #112
116. That makes no sense
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 12:26 PM by skygazer
How is taking your name indicative of the level of commitment she feels to the marriage? Have you ever considered what it's like to give up the name you've been known by for your entire life? To essentially change your identity?

I don't knock anyone who chooses of their own free will to change their name but I fail to see how NOT changing it indicates a lack of commitment. If you feel so strongly that it does, why is it that the woman is the only one who has to prove her commitment in that way?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #116
120. That's my choice.
If she doesn't want my name, then I don't want her. I understand that she might have a desire to retain old identity with a hyphen and that's ok, and clearly if she's known as XXXX YYYYYYY in the professional field then she can very well remain XXXX YYYYYYY in that field. But if in regular day to day usage she wants to go by a name that does not identify her as my wife, then I'd be happy to make the name dillemma even easier by not marrying her at all.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #120
121. Your choice. Not hers.
How nice.

Tell me, how, in day to day usage, are YOU identified as her husband? That's what I'm getting at here - why the double standard? In her, a failure to take your name indicates a lack of commitment but there's no corresponding failure on YOUR part - you get a free ride.

Sometimes this place just boggles my mind...
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #121
126. I don't care. Those are my terms, she can take them or leave them.
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 01:27 PM by JVS
The OP asked how I would feel. I don't need to justify my feelings to you.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #120
139. But WHY in regular day-to-day does she have to be identified as YOUR wife?
If she wants to, whatever, but I don't get--honestly don't get--why this should ever be a big deal. She wears a ring, doesn't she? She doesn't cheat on you, does she? What does her name have to do with any of that? Are non-name-changers more likely to cheat? Do you feel emasculated because your wife isn't tied to you by name?

Seriously. WTF.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #139
140. It's like an variant of "I wouldn't want to join any club that would let me in"
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 02:55 PM by JVS
My version is "I wouldn't want any member of the club who isn't willing to join." If she won't take on the name of my family, then she's not invited to be part of the family. As I said before, a professional name is something else and can be tolerated. If she is ashamed to have the name, then I'd be ashamed to have her as a wife.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #140
143. Look, I'm not asking you to "justify your feelings"
I'm just mystified at why her not wanting to take your name translates to you as being "ashamed to have" it.

There is not a single woman I've ever met who kept her own name who did so because she was ashamed to have the name of her husband. She did it because it was HER name, the name she was born with, that she'd always known, that connected her to her history - just as your name does.

I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight here - I just don't get the reasoning. Can't you at least put yourself in that position and think about how you'd feel being asked to give up the name you've carried for your entire life?
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #143
149. Exactly.
My mother was not "ashamed" of my father or my father's last name or my father's family. She was an individual and wasn't about to give up whatever semblance of individuality she had for what she felt was an outdated and sexist custom with a blatant double-standard. :shrug:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #143
176. Why are you complaining to me about how I would feel in such a situation?
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #140
145. So strange.
:shrug:

To me one doesn't need the same name to be a part of the family--hell, my father's side has not one woman-taking-man's-name case, and my mother's sister regrets her name change. We're all just one big melange of family members, blood and by marriage and even a few "honorary" family members as good as blood or law, no matter what last name any of us has. I also don't think women generally refuse to take men's names because of feeling "ashamed" about the man's name--usually it's out of convenience or the feeling that women taking others' names but not men doing so is plain sexist.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #145
179. Well you have your views and I have mine.
I would consider refusal to take my family name an insult and wouldn't want to marry someone who would insult me in such a manner.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #179
182. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.
I can't imagine what else insults you, though, if something like refusal to take a name. Serious question: why don't you take her name? You're joining her family as much as she's joining yours.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #182
183. Because I'm a man, that's why
:P
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #183
188. Clearly.
:P
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #112
168. So......
being single sucks, huh?
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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #168
180. ...
:thumbsup:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #168
184. If I wanted to be in a relationship with someone with a different name, there's no need to marry.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #184
185. Or, as I read this post,
"For some reason, she said no!"
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #185
186. Do I personally attack you for how you manage your life?
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #186
189. Have I given you an opening?
Actually, you know what: go for it. Please feel free to make fun of any part of my life you can find here on DU. I have enough confidence in the rightness of how I live my life that it won't bother me. And if I find that I am the butt of jokes often enough, I just may take a look at what I present to the world and maybe rethink it.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #189
190. Despite your invitation, remember that I did not invite you insult me.
So STFU with the personal attacks please.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #190
192. You posted your opinion
yet you don't want anyone to comment negatively on your opinion? Ooooooooookay.

"If she doesn't want my name, she probably isn't that commited to the idea of the marriage in the first place"

You have zero idea what makes a good marriage.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #192
207. I was asked how I feel about something, you argue that my feelings invalid
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 11:05 PM by JVS
You do not get to decide how I feel, nor judge the legitimacy of the feelings. If I perceive a hypothetical fiancee being unwilling to take my name as an insult that's how I perceive it. And for you to try to mock me about my feelings is a shitty thing to do, no matter how convinced you are that you lead your life rightly. That doesn't make you arbitrator of how I should feel, it just makes you self-righteous.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #207
209. When and if you are even in this situation,
I hope she does a better job than I of explaining why no insult is intended, and why it should not be taken.
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #112
200. Why do you believe that she isn't committed to the idea of marriage if she doesn't change her name?
I've seen this argument time and again, but it's never made sense to me. I'm a firm believer that the name change issue is a personal one, and it doesn't matter to me whether people change or don't change.

However, I do not understand the idea that a woman isn't committed to her husband or her marriage if she keeps her own name. I am very close to a woman who has been happily married for 17 years, shares a life and two children with her husband and is as committed to her husband and family as they come. She just doesn't happen to share a name with the man she married.
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GirlinContempt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #200
206. I don't understand it either.
I think it's a double standard. If someone wants to make the change, one way or another, fine. But I don't get how it would be insulting or indicate a lack of commitment. I don't understand why one persons family name or heritage should be more important than the other (in general. Of course, specifically as I've said, mine is incredibly important to me. Not necessarily more so than any others, just to me).

Many people are happily married who keep their own names, change their names, hyphenate, combine, whatever. I think for it to indicate that someone wasn't committed to the marriage, there would obviously have to be other problems going on, otherwise it just doesn't make sense.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #200
208. I see people write "Love me, love my cats" here as though it's some kind of word of God shit
Everyone has a right to say what he or she will accept in a relationship. My rule is "Marry me, take my name." Good for your friend, butI seriously doubt that I'd get along for very long with someone who wouldn't take my name. As I said before, I'd see it as an insult, a rejection of unity of the relationship, and I wouldn't be willing to carry on with the undertaking.
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #208
211. But why isn't it an "insult" or "rejection of unity" for you to refuse to take her name?
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #211
214. because he's THE MAN silly goose! n/t
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LSdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
118. That's entirely her business
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
119. My wife changed her name. More or less.
It's now the same as my last name on her driver's license and social security card, but she still uses her maiden name at work to avoid confusion.

In the lead up to the wedding, I never said it was something she "had" to do, "should" do or whatever else. I said that if she did, I would be honored. And I am. Having the same last name brings us closer as a fledgling family and underscores our lifelong commitment. I don't think that any woman should be forced to do something she doesn't want to do, and I don't believe that the answer is the same for everybody, or that any woman must necessarily obey the rules of convention. But for us, it was the right choice, and both of us couldn't be happier.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
123. Honestly? I'd be torn on the issue.
Honestly? I'd be torn on the issue. The traditionalist in me would perceive a bit of rejection and a lack of trust. The non-traditionalist in me would ask, "what's in name?". The pragmatist in me would think, "this is going to be a headache".

It's not a deal-breaker by any stretch of the imagination, but it's something I'd have to have full knowledge of why it's part of the agenda/deal/marriage.
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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
125. I wouldn't have an issue with it
at all.
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Jimbo S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
127. I told her it was OK to keep it, even encouraged it
but she wanted to take my name, so it was done.
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
128. My wife kept her last name. It's not a big deal.
She likes her last name because it has all the vowels. Who am I to argue with that? Plus, she's probably going to be a professor in the near future and it helps to have the same name on all her academic work for reference.

As far as kids go, we are leaning towards assigning last names according to gender - boys get my name, girls get hers. Or not. We'll see when we get there.
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
129. Maybe I'd take her name.
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #129
132. That's because you rock
:*

My soon-to-be husband would happily take my name. I told him he should keep his because it contains his history just as mine contains mine.

It amazes me how hung up some people get on this.
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #132
133. ...
:*
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BarenakedLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #129
148. But you have a cool last name.
:D
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #148
159. Of course I would ask what she thought first.
If she'd like to take my name then cool, but if she didn't want to change her name I would be happy to take hers instead.

And thank you. :loveya:
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
130. If I ever marry
I would hope that he would be ok with me either keeping my name or hyphenated or something similar.

I'm a single mother and my child has my name. If I were to marry I'd still want to keep at least part of my name so my child could identify with our family still.
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
134. I don't care one way other
It doesn't matter to me.
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Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
135. Hey, who'd want mine? "Egg"/nt
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cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
138. 2nd wife kept her last name... ex-wife still uses mine
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 02:44 PM by cgrindley
My 2nd wife's friends and family continuously piss her off by addressing letters to us to:

Dr and Mrs cgrindley

It's a hoot and a holler let me tells ya. I just laugh and laugh.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
141. Mom never changed her name.
Laughed at even the proposition of a name-change--it was never on the table for her, never even an issue because why would she change her name? Her father wasn't happy, but she gently told him to go pound sand, and I don't think the issue's been raised since. My father made some joke about "Oh, you hate my name, eh?" once and she told him it wasn't even a joking matter. My mother doesn't take shit from anyone. :D
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #141
154. I'd never do it either
and I cannot understand why so many women are willing to participate in such sexism.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #154
157. I can't either.
Absolutely boggles the mind. If she comes from an extremely abusive background, perhaps, but otherwise it seems to be pure sentiment.

"But it's for the good of the family and our unity!"
"But I don't want my kids to be confused!"
"But I don't my husband to feel spurned!"
and on and on and on.

Listen--if you need the same last name to be unified in your marriage, you have a serious issue. If your kids can't tell who their parents are without a common denominator name, your kids have an issue. If your husband would feel "spurned" by your not taking his name, what else would he feel "spurned" by? Your going out alone with some girlfriends?

I've heard all of those quotations above, and they are pure horseshit from head to toe. Maybe you have a logical reason for taking his name, maybe not, but don't do it for "tradition" or the "unity of the family." That's ridiculous.
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #157
199. There are reasons other than the ones you listed.
Perhaps a couple doesn't "need" to have the same last name to feel unified, but they WANT the same last name. A person's reasons for changing her (or his) name are valid (even if you don't agree with those reasons), because the only person it affects is the one who makes the change. No one should have to explain to anyone else why they chose to change their name (similarly, no one should have to explain to anyone else why they didn't change their name).

Incidentally, 21 years ago, I received a whole lot of flak for giving my daughter my family last name instead of her father's. I was told I was "robbing her of her heritage", an argument that never held any water for me. Why on earth was her paternal heritage MORE important than her maternal heritage? I've never been sorry I gave her my name.
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
175. I've never been a big fan of doing something just because 'It's tradition'.
So if someone I want to be with doesn't want to follow a silly tradition that says that I'm the one who gets to keep my name because I was born with a penis, then I'm fine with that. :P
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
187. No problem with it.
p.s. I liked northzax's answer best.

;)
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
191. I am a female who kept my last name
Edited on Thu Jan-24-08 05:47 PM by sleebarker
My husband, not being an idiotic sexist asshole, didn't give a damn. If he did, it would be a moot point because I wouldn't have married him.

He also does all the housework and cooking and stuff - like actually I'm hungry now and eagerly waiting for him to get home because we planned to cook actual food tonight. :) He's the oldest of five and I am the very spoiled baby and he knows how to do that stuff and I don't and when I ask to help he says that it would take too long to teach me and that I would do it wrong - he can be a bit control freaky sometimes.

Gender just isn't important to either one of us beyond being physically attracted to a person with a different set of reproductive organs.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
197. My ex did, it didn't bother me at all, and it worked out for the best.
I don't need to participate in a tradition of ownership, as harmless as it may be today, and I don't need people in my family to change their names.
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Bassic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
213. My wife did keep her last name,
and I wouldn't have it any other way.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #213
223. How did it go???
I've been meaning to PM you forever.
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Bassic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #223
226. It went perfectly,
It was a little rainy, but the rain cleared every time we needed it too, and the whole day pretty much went exactly as planned. :D

Seriously, I don't think I could have gotten a better wedding day. :D

So how have you been?
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Magrittes Pipe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
215. She did.
It's okay. I know she doesn't love me as much as her first husband, anyway. :cry:
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bikebloke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
221. Fine with me.
It's her name. I'd be in it for the relationship. Names don't matter.

Not that I have to worry either way. I haven't even dated in along while.
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