Not all Irish are GREEN y'know.

Here's to the cousins I've never met in Armagh and 'Derry! Lift one for me, boyos.

NOT!

green and orange on St. Paddy's since my mother's side of the family was Catholic. I don't call myself Orange Irish, though. Just Scots-Irish.

But I've always thought it appropriate that the flag carries both colors.

Even my mother herself calls that orange colour "gold." I was confused whenever I was told that was "gold" and not "orange" when growing up.

The thing is that he ran away with a laundry girl and here I am, so perhaps he qualifies as honorary orange, or orange by defection.

It really used to piss off some people in High School. Dad's one blind spot was "None that 'green' shit on March 17th!"

I guess he actually knew a relative who got wasted in "The Troubles," and took it a little personally!

that were killed in the Troubles and it makes me not like either group more.

Some of my Catholic relatives consider the Orange Order up there with the KKK. My father's father (protestant) was part of the Orange Order, my dad (Protestant) married my mum (Catholic) and lost a lot of his friends because they were disgusted with him marrying a Catholic. To this day my Catholic relatives on my mother's father's side refuse to talk to us because he married a Protestant (her maiden name used to be Ann Coulter, yikes!) and our blood is tainted by those "prods".

For Ireland's sake, I do think organisations like the IRA and the Orange Order should be disbanded. They've contributed nothing but hate in Northern Ireland.

For a note my relatives come from Antrim, Down, and Tyrone. One of my cousins was killed in the Omagh blast and she was Catholic. My great-aunt (Protestant) on my father's side worked with the Peace People (was friends with Mairéad Corrigan) and volunteered at the Long Kesh prison in the eighties and nineties. My mother survived Bloody Friday and was in Donegal Quay that day. My grandfather was the first Catholic to win the University Blue (best all-round athlete) at Queen's and the Protestants there tried to strip him of it. A lot of my Catholic relatives went to England (ironic!) to attain university degrees so they could work in Northern Ireland.

We have nothing but disdain towards both groups as they do tit-for-tat attacks on each other. You really have to had experienced the Troubles in Northern Ireland to see the bad these groups were towards Irish society.

According to my sketchy information from Canada, they keep a VERY low profile. Personally I think the Order and the Provos will spend eternity killing each other in the First Ring of the Seventh Circle of Hell: reserved for those who commit violence against their neighbors.

May neither of them ever rest easy.

The Order does try to cause trouble every July. Which is why the Irish tourism board recommends people NOT to come in July. The reason being that the Order keeps trying to march through well-known Catholic neighbourhoods because they feel it's their right to do so, but they're just stirring shit.

The good thing about Ireland now that there's integrated schools and the hate is slowly melting away as they finally start to learn to get along with each other. Mary McAleese, the President of Ireland, held out an olive branch to the Orange Order and gave them permission to march in Dublin. They stirred up shit again and blamed it on the Catholics for canceling the parade.

I was in Ireland in 2005 and went to St Georges Market in Belfast and saw an Irish flag t-shirt alongside an Ulster flag tshirt. My eyes just about popped out of my head. In the nineties it was a BIG NO NO to wear an Irish flag t-shirt. Probably safer to wear it in Belfast than the smaller villages though.

My Irish-Italian cousin got an Irish flag tattoo that he bears proudly in Belfast but covers it up (my aunt tells him to do that) whenever he goes to Bangor or Donaghadee.

As long as you don't color it green.

We'll raise a glass for Ireland, WHATEVER we perceive her to be.

...War of Independence. Can't get much greener than that.

And stood in both wars in defense of Queen and Country.


Battle of Ypres, Battle of Vimy Ridge, Canadian Light Horse in the Great War,


Juno beach in World War II.

Dad says Henry thought it a fine place for an Irishman to be: standing up for freedom.

In World War I, the Irish fought alongside the British in WWI. They hoped to achieve freedom from the British Empire as had the Canadians and other countries post-war.

The British ignored them and thusly borne the Irish cause.

Even an Irish Prod will admit to that!

Well, they've lost their empire: it's a humbling thing.

Why they came to America. So I guess I am not green.

I suppose my grandparents probably wouldn't even have met had they been born in the old country. My grandmother's Irish ancestors (Catholic) probably came here to escape the famine of the 1840s, and my granfather's (Protestant) came over just before the Revolutionary War.

I think that we here in this country don't know what it's like to have that kind of long history of sectarian hatred. I once read an article about Liam Neeson in which the idiot writer referred him to as a "strapping Ulsterman." He's a Catholic from Northern Ireland, and from what I understand, no such individual would ever call himself an Ulsterman. I hope for that writer's sake Neeson didn't see that article. :evilgrin:

The others are just English invaders.

:hide:

We're still FRIENDS here now. I prefer Harp to Guinness though.

It will be Guinness.

Recalling the fact that JAMES was a STUART king...

The barley feeds us ALL, as the rains fall on good and ill.

As my sainted Gran would say, "They're English."

"Whenever they got his IRISH up, Clancy lowered the BOOM!"

Now hush your mouth with THIS, lass.

I meant the above statement in fun, but upon re-reading it, it sounds mean and inflammatory.

My apologies.

I'll be after buyin'.

...and may ye be in heav'n an hour before the devil knows yer dead!

During the famine, the British refused to feed them unless they converted to Protestantism. When they did, they got some soup.

If you see a Protestant with a very Catholic last name, it's probably because their ancestor took the soup of the British empire. There's a very famous case in Northern Ireland, that of Lenny Murphy (a Protestant) and the Shankill Butchers. He was mercilessly teased about his last name and wherein he grew a visceral hatred of Catholics.

We are doing a St Paddy's day party for my daughter's 5 grade class, and hubby's family tree includes some Orangemen. I ended up at a local costume store looking for strings of orange beads to go along with the green ones. This was NO small thing but we felt it was important to make sure and mention it. The Flag of the Irish Republic has both the Orange AND the Green to symbolize the "unity" of the Protestants and the Catholics in Ireland.


The Orange Institution members (also called the Orange Order or the Orange Lodge) usually celebrate July 12, the anniversary of the Battle of Boyne. There was a big hoopla a couple of years ago when the Orangemen were invited to walk in some of the St Paddy's day parades. Local officials made a point of telling them they could not guarantee their safety if they marched.



Laura

My paternal ancestor (my several times great-grandfather, emigrated to the mountains of Western NC in the mid 1700s from Northern Ireland.

My maternal grandmother was Black Irish (olive skin, dark eyes and dark hair) (imagine Ava Gardner looks - Ava was from Western NC too!) and my mom' paternal family is English-Scots-Irish (which explains the red hair and freckles and blue eyes!) I got the pale skin, blonde hair and blue eyes.

Happy Saint Patricks Day to my Irish friends! :)

who's father fought in the battle at King's Mountain! Elizabeth's nephew (also one of my ancestors) died at the Alamo with Davey.

Thanks for the link! :hi:

In the words of our dear, departed Tommy Makem, I give you Four Green Fields:

>
> Four Green Fields
>
> What did I have, said the fine old woman
> What did I have, this proud old woman did say
> I had four green fields, each one was a jewel
> But strangers came and tried to take them from me
> I had fine strong sons, who fought to save my jewels
> They fought and they died, and that was my grief said she
>
> Long time ago, said the fine old woman
> Long time ago, this proud old woman did say
> There was war and death, plundering and pillage
> My children starved, by mountain, valley and sea
> And their wailing cries, they shook the very heavens
> My four green fields ran red with their blood, said she
>
> What have I now, said the fine old woman
> What have I now, this proud old woman did say
> I have four green fields, one of them's in bondage
> In stranger's hands, that tried to take it from me
> But my sons had sons, as brave as were their fathers
> My fourth green field will bloom once again said she

The Catholic Irish celebrate St. Patrick. The Protestant Irish do not. The Protestant Irish have their own holidays. Let them celebrate theirs and we'll celebrate ours.

ALL are sons and daughters of Ireland, and as no one celebrates such a silly thing here, let's all have a drink together.

but only in fun.


this thread has been very illuminating for this Catholic girl raised here by folks whose ancestors came from Cork.


Happy St. Patrick's Day to all.

As are all above the sod AND below.

While we're above, let's have a drink!

An bhfuil tú ar meisce fós?

WHOOPS! WRONG JAMESON!!!

have a wee drop of the creature.

With many Thanks.

Someone asked me why I wasn't wearing green today and I said that I would have worn orange, but I don't have any.

They then gave me a blank stare.

frankly, I am a mutt whose family is not religious and who has ancestors who tended to hate my other ancestors, from the Scottish, to the Scot-Irish, to the Irish to the English, to the French and German and beyond.

My family has two things in common: we're mostly drunks and we can't stand each others' company for more than an hour, but we still manage to love each other and stand up for each other.