Agnostic Awakening

After reading Bart Ehrman's "God's Problem," I am now an agnostic. Just wanted to share that with you because I probably can not share with many other folks. Thank you.

:)

it emphasizes what I DO know, not what I don't know.

Believers in god(s) can't KNOW that there is a god just as atheists can't KNOW that there is no god. Being an "agnostic" seems to imply that you know even less than people who can't know!

I KNOW that we, as humans, have the capability to do what is right rather than what is wrong without the threat of rewards or punishments offered by supernatural beings. Will we use our capabilities and reach our full potential? That I don't know. There I have to have turn to faith.

Beginning as a child, I had my doubts about the religious mythology taught to me. I devoted too much of my life contemplating the existence of a higher being (not talking Timothy Leary here). I always believed that as I moved into the later stages of my life it would become an even more important question. It hasn't. I don't spend nearly as much time thinking about "the big question" anymore.

Because it's not at all important what I think of God (if she exists). It is only important what God thinks of me.

And I'd sure like the old girl to say "Hey look, here's one who figured it out."

Haven't read the book, though. Why did it change your stance?

"the problem of evil." How can there be a God with such suffering? I think the standard responses are so cliched. "It's free will." "Suffering makes you stronger." etc.

Ehrman basically is saying that there is so much suffering that there can't possibly be a God that the Bible describes, interceding in humanity. For instance, he writes about the sub-Saharan malaria epidemic. Mosquito bites kill thousands and thousands of people. Why? These aren't evil people (not perfect, but no one is). Their suffering is not redemptive or useful.

If God could deliver the Israelites from Egypt, why not these Africans from malaria?

At the same time I have respect for organized religion, even with all the problems it has. A lot people need some kind of place that feels safe, and at its best religion can provide that. Ritual gives life meaning. I used to have a friend who had OCD and she taught me this...

in the liberal faith group and can empathize with a lot of what you seem to have been wrestling with. I think Az made a good point last year, though, about making sure that you simply are what you are and not worrying about labels. You may well not be at any more a stopping point than I am.

Good luck!

But I do not believe in a personal deity. So, should I consider myself theist or atheist? I don't consider myself an agnostic because I know what I believe and what I don't believe.

Do you believe any kind of God or Divine Being? Are you a pantheist (Divine is everywhere)?

There is a lot different beliefs about Divinity. Deism, polytheism, henotheism...

One can be both (or neither) as they measure different things.

I am an atheist as I do not believe in a diety.

I am an agnostic because the ultimate reality may be remain forever unknowable.

I am also a naturalist.

I think I am agnostic, not an atheist because I feel I cannot know if there is a Divine Being.

You can even be an agnostic theist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism

I've been an agnostic all my life, but was raised in a fundamental Baptist home. I'm guessing that your family/friends are not likely to respect your views, from what you said.

I have not read the book you speak of; but I recently bought a book called "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris. From what I've gathered of it, it shows how religion was formed to instill law and order in society by dealing the fear card (heaven and hell, etc), as well as how politics play heavily into religion - to the point of leading their people into believing that war and human atrocities are acceptable and necessary.

I imagine that you feel like a veil has been lifted and you now see everything so much more clearly - it's a tough pill to swallow, when you've always thought differently until now.

Please - feel free to PM me if you need to talk.

:hug:

I think I will PM you. :hug:

He sees something VERY different in Job from what Ehrman sees.

Job is a fascinating book. In the end, though, it does not answer the problem of suffering.

God appears to Job and basically says, "Who are you to question the Creator?"

Yes, I am familiar with Girard, but I have not read that book.

I still have to read Stephen Vicchio's book on theodicy.

http://girardianlectionary.net/res/job_girard.htm


Ehrman gives a traditional reading of Job, and misses the point completely.

Ever since I finished high school and went to college. I went to a Lutheran church and believe everything I was told. I never asked questions.

But now, I question everything. How can someone not question everything?

An inability or unwillingness to question questionable beliefs is what is known as "faith".

This is why I fail to believe in some things but succeed in believing in others.

I've mostly failed to believe the things I've encountered, in life, that required only faith to foster that belief.

I've had far more luck believing the things that need and have also been supplied by nature some rational, empirically obtained proof.

That's just me tho...

But I still pray for others.

Why do you pray? Just curious. I respect religion and spirituality. (Heck, I'm kind of flattered that the Pope's going to come my hometown first! I don't like most of what he says, but Catholicism is so important to Baltimore.)

I used to pray a lot. Now only at meals with my family (very open minded Episcopalians and Jewish). Prayer can sometimes bring folks together...

:shrug:

:hug:

We all walk on different paths in this life, and what is a logical world view to one might seem irrational to another.

And speaking as a religious person, I don't have a problem with people expressing their disbelief, for we only know the true answer at the end.

All the best to you, whichever path you choose to continue on!

:)

:hug:

in that (a) things happen which are beyond current human understanding and (b) it would be nice to believe in something "beyond" our ken, but that (c) most likely we just don't understand it yet.

:evilgrin::hi:

he believes that he is my god. :shrug: