A dating question for the men of DU:

If you took a girl to a fancy restaurant once a week for several months and always insisted on paying, what is the likelihood you see this girl as only a "friend"?

edit: It doesn't really matter, I wouldn't take a woman out to dinner weekly for months on end and insist on paying if I wasn't...:blush:

$80 to $100+ for two.

You don't think so or he said you weren't?

confusing and undefined.

He's the strong silent type, and I'm not sure where the relationship stands right now (it is currently non-physical). But he hasn't come out and said we're "dating" or that he isn't seeing others. I don't want to talk to him about it unless there's a chance we're actually an item...

That is, I think he's interested in dating you. I don't know if you are dating, but it seems safe to assume he's interested in you. He sounds shy, possibly unsure what the next move is. Doesn't want to be the aggressor, which is problematic because that type is the sort who also doesn't want to be aggressed* upon.

The question becomes: "What do you want?"

*I'm pretty sure I just made up this word.

What I find perplexing is that so many people think this guy is exhibiting "friendship" behavior. If he is, he's certainly different than any guy I've ever met. In my experience, guys with tons of money and friends with money don't take the same friend out over and over to dinner.

But maybe I'm reading it wrong.

I have a friend who uses this very dating MO. He doesn't have a lot of social skills in this sense; dedicated his entire life to chasing money, not chasing after women. Has no dating sense, doesn't even have a road-map.

He doesn't want to call it a date because he doesn't want to scare off women, isn't the aggressor (because he doesn't want to scare off women), pays for everything (because he thinks that's what he should do), he will not make a romantic move (because he doesn't want to scare off women.)

I confronted him about it because it so ambiguous and he was driving the mutual friend he was doing this to crazy because she couldn't get a read on him. He admitted (to me) he kinda hoped to "back into a relationship", as if it were a parking spot.

Some men are gentleman and always insist on paying, others are not. A fancy restaurant is a relative thing. If the guy is well to do, or likes fine dining, than it's no big deal. If the guy is going some place that is very expensive for his salary or isn't into fine dining, than you might have a signal that it's more than friendship.

And then picks the place and always pays?

Do guys really do this for a "friend" on a weekly basis...?

So it's possible that he likes to eat out and if he has someone to eat with, he doesn't mind picking up the check. Like I said, some guys are old fashioned and just wont let a woman pay. You also need to consider the relative salaries and wealth. If the guy has a better job and/or more money, he may be more inclined to pay.


My opinion, based on experience, is that it can and does happen. That's not to say that the it has to be just friends, it's just to say picking up the check isn't a good indicator of the relationship. In fact it's been my experience that the woman's willingness to have her dinner paid for, is a little better indicator (although not absolute).

his tastes and could be dinner "dates". But he always takes me, once a week.

try jokingly refer to it as a date. See how he reacts and what he says.

Are you interested in him?

Unless he's an unctuous creep, I'd go for it. ;)

chivalrous, and a true gentleman.

But I don't see why even a "gentleman" would want to create such a situation week after week unless he had romantic inclinations of some sort (PS-he has plenty of other friends he could go out with in this regard). We always go out alone.

I am thinking of going for him, but I'm unsure of his intentions (by the way he never tries to maul me).

that doesn't mean he wouldn't be interested in more than that. He may not take it further for fear of ruining the friendship or thinks that you are uninterested. One trick you might try is jokingly call your dinner meeting "a date" and see what his reaction is. That might give you a better idea of what he is thinking.

and got no real response one way or another...

I just don't see why this guy is bothering with me. We could always just meet for a quick drink, but it's never that. It's always him picking me up and taking me on a dinner date.

is it mostly about him and advice for him and his life? Then you may just be a friend or a woman's perspective. Do you talk about you and your life and stuff? Then I think he is probably interested in more than friendship. Is it 50/50 and you talk about common interests? This one could go either way.

I suppose you could just ask him what his intentions are. You could say you find the arrangement where he is always taking you out to dinner a little odd.

I don't think he needs a "woman's" perspective from me...almost half his friends are female, and he's known them for far longer.

I want to ask his intentions but I feel shy.

He can say he is interested in more than friendship, and you get to take things to the next level.

OR

He can say he isn't interested in anything more than friendship, in which case you can relax and enjoy the dinners for what they are. Plus you won't be troubling yourself over where you stand and what you should do.

Either way, I would think you would be better off than you are now.

The problem is that I really have come to like him. If he says I'm just a friend, I'll be rather brokenhearted.

The sooner the better, is what I have found. A longer wait isn't going to make the possible let down any easier. If anything it will make it worse.

She went out weekly/semiweekly for months/years on end. He had a very well-paying job, was not married, no dependents, and enjoyed her company, but nothing else came of it, and later she found out he was gay. He also spent $$$ on jewelry for her once or twice. I'm just sayin'.... sometimes it is what it appears.

She went out weekly/semiweekly for months/years on end. He had a very well-paying job, was not married, no dependents, and enjoyed her company, but nothing else came of it, and later she found out he was gay. He also spent $$$ on jewelry for her once or twice. I'm just sayin'.... sometimes it is what it appears.

Just wondering.

All her friends said they were dating, and wondered about it, but it was all just platonic fun, although the man apparently used the money and gifts and treats as a way to keep friendships. He was not a great friend in other ways.

Especially if I enjoyed spending time with that person.

I had a female friend who used to be much poorer than I, but we both are movie freaks, so I took her to the movies every friday night, and I paid. I had no interest in getting in her pants (her sister was a different story however).

me pay for anything at all--not even a drink.

How old is the guy? Does he make a lot of money?

A friend of mine is in his late 50s. He would NEVER let a lady pay - it would be unmanly. Maybe it is not a function of his age or just the way the guy thinks regardless of age.

I go out to eat with female friends all the time. I would buy if they bought last time and vice versa or we would split (and in a gender wars note - ladies, when the bill is split by the parties, simply divide by the number of people eating. It looks petty to divide it up to the penny. Everything works out in the end. In my experience it is gals that do this, guys just split it evenly). But that is the way I am.

Also, I routinely pick up the tab for friends of mine of all genders that don't make a lot of money. That way I get to eat with a friend and not have to worry about only eating at cheap places - which can hurt my tummy.

and in his early 30's. I suppose he could see me as only a friend, but it just seems like he's taking me on date after date. Also, he has tons of other friends he could do this with.

he told you that he liked you as more than a friend, how would you feel?

as I said below, he could be waiting for a sign from you. He may like you as a friend and doesn't want to risk losing that if he comes on too strong and you're not interested. And, sometimes guys miss those subtle signs that women like to give (women probably don't think of them as subtle, though...) to a lot of guys - me included - anything short of ripping your clothes off, jumping on top of the guy and shouting, "F-Me!" is being subtle!

Can you see yourself with him as his girlfriend? do you enjoy talking with him and do you share some common interests? is a democrat?

Sounds like a lack of social skills, doesn't want to be the sexual aggressor. Those kind of guys practically have to have their clothes ripped off by the woman, or else they will blow you off totally, get scared and stop seeing you. Usually these types are science nerds or engineering majors or such.

Go ahead, order a second bottle of wine with dinner. That would loosen him up a bit. Then invite him up to your place for another drink...soft music...then let things go from there...

I think it's not very likely he views you as just a friend. Possible, but unlikely.

He may like you as more than a friend and is hoping for a sign from you to proceed further than dinner...

How should I do it delicately?

Also, what prompted the "good grief"? Am I being that silly?

"Look you take me out to dinner every week and I think that is great. I have a good time. It's got me wondering is this leading up to anything? Are you interested in more than just a friendship?"

if you really want to know, just straight up ask him. It's probably better than always wondering. He might not know how to bring up the topic either and would be grateful if you did.

comes from this- the guy is being very nice to you, enjoys your company, you enjoy his, you are seeing each every week for some reason or another, you want to know if he's interested in you as more than just a dinner companion...

so, it's time for you to take some initiative. as someone else mentioned... invite him to your place to listen to music or a movie or whatever. tell him you like him. ask him if he sees you as a friend or a date... don't make HIM have to go through all the crap.. you can first tell him that you hope he sees you as someone to date.

I'm like Sarah Belle - it's pretty simple, you know?

If he just wants to be friends (which doesn't seem to be the case) then you can simply say, oh well, at least we can still be friends. And you can still be friends if you want to.

Oh, you poor woman. :P

not *exactly* I'm sure.

but I've read that, you, too, view your actions in this world as a way to empower yourself and others... get past the ideologically gendered view of femininity, etc. - and I am sure you know exactly what I mean, even if it's said as aca-gibberish.

(That was easy.)

are you the guy or the girl?

I guess I'm blunt. I'm either moving that relationship "to the next level" within a few weeks or not going out with the person anymore. Otherwise, I'd be bored out of my mind. Seems like one of you needs to lay those cards on the table and get movin'. Maybe he's shy. You know him better than us. If you're into him, start touching his thigh under the table and play a little footsie or something. :shrug: I can guarantee you'll know the answer to your question by the end of the meal.

As I said above, guys often miss hints that are less subtle than feeling their thighs/playing footsie.

When I have an attraction (and I'm talking since high school), I've never been one for subtlety. I'm not flirty with those I'm not into (I'm not a phony tease to get attention), but when I am into someone.... :nuke: :evilgrin: they know!

I know exactly what you mean about letting them know it. In fact, this "proactive" attitude is part of the fun... at least it is for me. I doubt, very seriously, that any guy I have ever been interested in didn't know it without asking.

But I also just like to joke and flirt in general. It's part of my... culture. Flirting isn't about attention, it's about making someone else feel good and having fun, to me... and by that I mean flirting that is not for any other reason that itself... and everyone knows it.

where were you like 20 years ago?

but, this is what I said above...

And, sometimes guys miss those subtle signs that women like to give (women probably don't think of them as subtle, though...) to a lot of guys - me included - anything short of ripping your clothes off, jumping on top of the guy and shouting, "F-Me!" is being subtle!

maybe under the tablecloth "looking" for the earring hiding in your pants? LOL! (j/k)

I was 16, in high school and working at the Abdow's Big Boy in Wethersfield. :P

I was 26 and that would make you 21. That would have worked.

And, I remember going to the Howard Johnson's in Wethersfield, but not sure about Abdow's.

My windows of singlehood have been all too brief in the last 20 years. 18 and 23? That might have worked. :D

never.

I was a different person when I was 26 and 28.

but, not sure why "never"?

Howard Johnson? don't even know the other place... I don't think we were thinking about the same thing... or something. :)

was a rather large chain of hotels & restaurants that were fairly popular through the 1970s, but started declining in the 80s. They closed a lot of hotels and restaurants a while back, but I think they're still in business. In the 50s and 60s, their orange roof symbol was probably as popular as the golden arches of McDonald's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Johnson's

I recently re-acquainted with a old, cherished friend. We're in our mid-50s. She and I knew each other for a few years in junior high, high school, and first year in college. Then we went our separate ways and I didn't see her for 35 years. Last year, we met up and have been emailing each other since.

I could see myself taking her to dinner once a week and paying each time. I have very special feelings about her and would love the opportunity to visit with her over a nice, intimate dinner at a fancy restaurant once a week.

And paying for it would be my way of saying how much her friendship meant to me, and how much I appreciated her presence in my life.

Or there is the "just in case" scenario, which, let's not get into right now.

I don't know too many guys who actually have that many dates and are unclear of their intent.

.....after reading through all of this, it seems like you should make a move.

It could be that he would like a relationship with you, but also really likes you as a friend. I can think of cases where I haven't started romantic relationships with women who I was very attracted to, just because I didn't want to lose them as friends. In one case, the woman starting dating someone, and our weekly outings as friends soon diminished to every few months.... not good. In another case, after years of friendship, we started a romantic relationship, and it was a disaster which totally ruined our friendship. So, the moral of the story is that I can never win, but that doesn't mean that you can't.

If you really want to know how he feels, what will do the trick a lot better than asking how he sees the relationship is laying a big kiss on him - and not on the cheek. In my dating history, I've noticed that 100% of the time that women kiss me on the lips, they are interested in more than friendship.

I bet you're right! :)

I've had another sort of situation, however. I told someone I was seeing another person. The someone and I had interests in common, friends in common, and professional stuff in common. I invited him over to look at something I was working on.. just to hang out. But he apparently thought I was asking him over for something else.

He started to kiss me and I said that I couldn't do that.

He left and then started telling me I was a narcissist (?) and got mad at me all the time about this or that and, basically, is totally antagonistic to me now. So I rarely ever see him anymore, which is a shame, but, at the same time, his reaction was so out there I guess it's a good thing.

Are you able to afford the meals? In my first couple of years in college whenever I'd go back home to see my HS friends, they'd always pay for my share at the restaurant since I didn't really have that much money, but I paid whenever I could and later on would make it up.

Don't ask him what he wants!
After your next meal tell him you'd like to go for a stroll, maybe the moon will be pretty that night. Put your arm through his. Then let nature run it's course.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Either that or inviting him over and cooking him dinner, have a movie ready and kinda snuggle into the couch really close to him while watching it and see where it goes.

Or she could just ask him "Hey, are we dating?" LOL Try not to wrinkle up the nose when you ask tho, he might take that the wrong way. Make sure to look him straight in the eye with no facial gestures at all! Don't want to give him a signal he could take as you might feel uncomfortable if the answer is yes.

I've had lots of male friends in my life. With some of them, it was dinner or home wine tastings several times a week. We always paid our own way, so I'd say this guy is interested.

Jane Austen lives! make sure to take your bonnet if you go for a ride in the gentleman's posting coach...

I preferred Mary Wollstonecraft, myself. :)

As you are walking together lightly grab his arm, and see whether (or how) he responds. If he brushes you off, I think you have your answer. If he reciprocates, or holds your hand, that will be step toward knowing.

I am a big believer in passion though. When my wife got to know me there was no mistaking my feelings for her. Thank goodness it was mutual. But I sure found a way to let her know I dug her. Unless he's super shy I cannot imagine how a dude under these circumstances could not hint at interest.

Hope it works out!

"I want to and I don't want to" mode.

I think that if you asked someone who was so inept directly, it might scare him away. (Voice of experience here. Years later I found out from his ex-roommate that he actually was interested in me but was freaked out by my directness.)

If you want this to develop further, start putting on your green lights: wink at him at appropriate moments, get a bit touchy-feely, and if you can talk a bit sexy without getting raunchy or can smolder, do so.

I like English Lady's suggestion of casually taking his arm as you walk out.

I knew a gal many years ago with this same issue. He took her to expensive bars a restaurants a couple times a week. This went on for months and she became eternally frustrated that he never once made a pass at her or so much as kissed her.

Turned out he was gay, in the closet at the time, and was fighting it by keeping up appearances as a straight man. Which is not all that unusual for us gay men and women both.

Since you seem to be interested in him, for your sake I hope that is not the case. And maybe he is especially shy and reserved, or a virgin and nervous.

FWIW

Oh, probably 50/50.

I dunno.

*wave*

:shrug:

I would bet he's hoping that something develops.

I have been doing similar with a friend of mine for a long time.
Would like to move it up a notch (make that a whole bunch of notches)but have been scared shitless.
do not want to lose her, but in reality i do not have her.


and for dating skill-when god was passing them out i must have been in the bathroom or something.