How do you relate to a friend who has had a family member murdered?

I have been doing my best to bend over back wards and be patient, understanding, and accommodating.

But I am beginning to feel like she wants to draw me in with one hand, and slap me with the other. My feeling is that it is displaced anger, and I refuse to play the emotional "whip me, beat me" game.

She wants to meet me tomorrow night to return something I left at her place, but I kinda feel like I am being set up. First she can't talk to or be around anyone for a couple weeks, then she wants to meet me the next day.

I've experienced losses in my life too, but never anything this tragic. I'm not sure I am emotionally equipped to deal with this.

I just refuse to be a pig if that is what she is inviting, and will just listen and keep my mouth shut if it gets to sound like a plea for emotional abuse. It just seems like that is what she wants right now, and I'm not going to do it.

Gawd, this is really hard.

:(

set limits with her if she is abusive... tell her that you are sorry she is hurting but you won't be a party to hurting her more.

I wonder if she is involved in a survivors of murder support group for families?

Sounds like she needs some people that she can relate to to talk about the issues that are there 'cause it puts you in a no win situation if she wants it to, you can "never understand" because you haven't lost someone that way.

Survivors of trauma of any kind will have displaced anger, and guilt, that will be put out to those that listen. Even professionals who deal with trauma survivors develop compassion fatigue because it is very demanding and trauma will suck you in or the person will and then you are there, and if you lose objectivity (which is very easy to do) you can get chewed up and spit out just because you were there. A support group of other survivors will give her something to hang her hat on and a place to start at.

While not working with murder survivors, I am a team leader for a catastrophic event mental health response team for a 6 county area here. I know that one thing that is drilled into our heads as team leaders... ALWAYS MAKE SURE that there is debriefing for the mental health professionals who are working with the survivors of whatever kind of traumatic/catastrophic event (we train for pandemic events like Avian influenza or some other viral infection that might take out large portions of the population, or in the unlikely event of a terrorist attack, that. But really, Rural Western Arkansas and terrorists? Probably not, although we have white supremacists that live in the area. We also are preparing for a very large earthquake along the New Madrid fault... or just about any multi-county disaster with large losses of life expected, fun huh?)

So I guess my points are a) don't be too hard on yourself; b) realize that it isn't really about you; c) don't allow yourself to be abused; d) offer to help her find a group, or suggest to her that she find a group or a therapist.

Just my opinion

YMMV!

:hi:

I doubt she is involved in a survivors group yet. It only happened a week ago, and it took a couple more days to discover the fire was set to cover up a murder.

I do understand what you mean about setting some boundaries for myself. I wasn't born yesterday, and I do see the red flags.

I simply wish to cause no harm, and will keep my mouth shut for now. I am capable of suddenly having to leave if that is what it takes tomorrow.

Thanks.

said it all better than I ever could. I would only add that her emotions are probably ALL over the place.....

person is really hurting and going through the typical stages of grief.

Stand on your own and help him/her when things are a bit better.

I love my friends. I hate my friends. I hate that they know what happened and don't want them to talk about it. I need them to not forget him...ever. And yet I cry and hate my life when his loss is brought to my attention. I don't answer the phone for days...and then sometimes wonder why it hasn't rung all day. I get shitty with people who want a blow by blow of what happened that day...and why I think it happened. I am tired of platitudes of how life gets better...when it doesn't. Not when you've wrapped your whole being around someone. So much so that when they are gone, you are effectively gone. It is what it is. And I get tired...so tired. Of what? Who knows. I don't know if this helps but it's who I am now and perhaps a little bit of what your friend might be going through.

It is a sick and sad and horrible thing I am doing to those I care about most. I know it. I just can't help it. I've never done this before.

I really do understand what it is like to lose a loved one, and tragically. And I appreciate your perspective on this.

With the loss of my life, I cried for about 7 months straight, and had no desire to talk to anyone about it. I was never rude or harsh to anyone, but I had a hard shell built around me that everyone understood and didn't violate.

But I never had this feeling like I wanted people to treat me like shit or get harsh with me, and that is the feeling I get from this person. Perhaps I am too sensitive for my own damned good.

It wouldn't be the first time I have ever told anyone that I will not eat the shit piled on you by others. I'm not a pushover, by any means. But they were assholes, and this time it's an, understandably, terribly wounded person.

I'm just not going to play back and get pissy. It's not for me to understand, but to simply empathize with.

:hug:

He wasn't murdered and was in his seventies, but it was still hard and exhausting. When I got back home to Chicago after the funeral, I had a lot of mixed emotions. I remember dreading the thought of visiting my husband's family for Christmas a few days later. If people acted like nothing was wrong, I was mad that they didn't acknowledge it. If they gave their condolences, I was mad that they brought it up and reminded me. You have a whole range of emotions, and I'm sure it's even moreso when you lose someone so young and/or tragically.

:hug: MrsGrumpy

Maybe no one else is responding for the same reason. And you are a little confusing on what exactly she's doing. Is she picking fights with you, or just devolving into an emotional mess?

The three hardest times I've had dealing with people, so far, when the problem wasn't mine, was dealing with a woman who was losing her mind (didn't know that, though), dealing with my sister's boyfriend when he got suicidal (and it was largely my sister's fault, and I didn't like the guy, to boot), and dealing with a friend whose father had been killed in a car accident.

The first of these was impossible. She came back from a trip in a great depression, and began asking random questions, like whether she had ever known me before she met me. She was having a nervous breakdown, and was committed soon after this.

The second, all I really did was listen and nod, but it seemed to help. He wasn't really suicidal, he just was in anguish over some things involving my sister, and probably the rest of his life.

The third, I wasn't the only one helping him. He got very weird for a long time. Like many people in tragic circumstances, he developed a conspiracy theory that his father had really been murdered by a famous local attorney. He was rather convincing, even, as long as one didn't step back and learn the facts. He went on drinking binges, not to party, but just to obliterate himself. He treated his girlfriend horribly, and then well. He was my best friend at the time, so it wasn't that hard for me to commit to the emotional strain--in fact, I fought to make him let me in. And I wasn't the only one.

But I have no experience with what you are describing. My limited experience would say to make sure she isn't having a breakdown, and if you think she is, contact other friends and family and see what can be done. Listen to her, bear the burden. Don't talk, just listen and nod and say little things. I remember suffering through a couple of things, including the friend's father's death--I was close to his father, too--and going into shock. You get this feeling like you can't wrap your mind or thoughts around what's happened, like if you just try to think or talk it through you'll be able to get at what is driving you crazy. So you talk to people, and search your own thoughts, and try to grasp at it, and it's always just out of your reach. What's doing this to me, you ask. Why can't I understand this? Why can't I get past this? What is it that's really bothering me? What does this really mean? And you get frustrated, because there's no answer, and it's just your mind and your emotions and even your body trying to come to some place where it can find peace.

Maybe she's just feeling that, and she just wants to sound out what she's thinking on you, to see if it makes sense that way, or if you can give her the answer. That's why silence works best--that, and it's impossible to think of the right thing to say, anyway.

That's all I got. I only answered because you seem lost on this, and no one else was. Hope it helps in some way. :hug:

I've had some devastating losses in my life too, but never due to a murder.

I guess I am a bit confused too. No, she is not picking fights with me. What I feel like is that one day she cannot deal or talk with anyone for a couple weeks, and then she calls or writes me in the same day.

She wants to meet and talk, and then she can't stand to be around me, or anyone. And at times, she seems like she wants me to browbeat her for being hurt or indecisive. I'm just not going to do that.

I think the gist of your message is that she is testing me, and bouncing her feelings around right now. I am just going to keep my mouth shut and listen.

And I hope to CHRIST I never have to go through what she is going through right now.

My sympathies...

And I think Southpawkicker has the best ideas here...

All I have is ...:hug:

:hug:

Sounds like she is looking to punish someone, and you are handy.

But, by what you described, I would choose not to meet.

If the item is important to you, you can set it up to be mailed to you, and if you want, set up another time in the future (month or so) that you will meet with her in a social setting (dinner, lunch, a drink)

If the item is not imporatant, just do the back out thing for a while, and follow up with a social setting invite in a month or so.

Difficult times, but you also have to not let yourself be abused :hug:

I don't think she really wants to punish ME. I think she is looking for someone to punish HER! And I am just not going to play that.

One one hand, I kinda feel like she is reaching out. I will go to the designated place tomorrow. If it seems like she is looking for an emotional beating, I know how to excuse myself and leave.

I'm just not about to be a pig with someone so emotionally distressed and hurting.

From your original post where you said, "...she wants to draw me in with one hand, and slap me with the other. My feeling is that it is displaced anger, and I refuse to play the emotional "whip me, beat me" game.", I interpreted that you were trying to not get into allowing that to happen.

I apologize if I stepped on our toes in my previous response. Am sure it hurts you to see your friend in so much pain.
She's lucky to have you in her life.

I think I responded as I did because I grew up literally and emotionally being placed in the "beat me, whip me" position too many times, and have learned to separate for a while from people who try to do that with me in order to give them space and not end up having a relationship that allows that, all the while still maintaining respect for both of us.

Sorry about all your friend is going through. It is indeed a tragic time for all. :hug:

I've been through the tragic loss of loved one myself, so I can understand the mixed feelings and even the instability.

It's just this added measure of a murder that makes me feel like it's entirely different from what I can relate to.

My reaction was to completely isolate myself, and I don't recall any desire or attempt to be pissy and try to get people angry with me. I just wanted to be left alone. Thus the "whip me, beat me" analogy that I cannot relate to. I just hope I can remain objective enough not to fall into that trap.

Thanks

or how well-intentioned you are.

I think you're right, and that you need to set your boundaries and plan ahead for the kindest possible way to keep the situation from getting out of control. I think it's also a good idea to plan some kind of debriefing process for you with other people.

I guess if I were you, I'd try to allow this friend the space she needs to talk, but not allow it to become a blame-placing or punitive thing. Your friend may need a lot of help right now, but she may be able to handle that kind of truth. She's probably in an incredibly terrible place right now, but she's still the same person she always was. Give her that credit and tell her the truth as kindly as you can.


My only real experience with this sort of thing was with a student of mine, a wonderful kid who'd never had the individual help he'd needed to learn to read and whose (single) mom was stabbed to death. His loss and pain manifested in a lot of ways, especially given the fact that we were working within a school environment where he'd always had few successes, but he rebounded. He made amazing strides and was so proud of his accomplishments. We finally, finally connected.
Then he was moved out of the district and I never saw him again.

Give what you can. Try to know when to stop. Love your friend the best you can.
I'm sorry it's so hard.

I have been there for her, as much as she would allow, and I am truly willing to be there, listen, and be patient for as long as it takes.

I truly do not think she wants to be mean or wants emotional abuse. I think that is just a sideways reaction she is having right now. And is perhaps testing me.

I know what I need to do tomorrow night if things get out of hand. I'm just not going to bite or be a pig to someone so bruised and in so much emotional pain.

I guess I just needed to talk it out first, and give myself permission. I'll be okay, because I know I can walk away if it gets to a "punish me" or "hurt me" point.

On the other hand, I could be worrying for nothing. I suggested very early so she could come and go before many people show up. Being around a lot of people is her big concern right now.

hard on you, remember . . . your friend is grieving, and grieving deeply. It's nothing she can just snap out of. Continue to be her friend, and just listen, be her sounding board.

I recommend The Year of Magical Thinking by Joan Dideon. It's a fast read, and Ms. Dideon's a very intelligent writer. She chronicle's the year after her spouse passed. It puts the whole grieving process more in perspective.

by a serial killer. I didn't meet him till about a year after it happened and he still needed to talk about it a lot. Losing someone to a violent murder is a huge event that stays with you the rest of your life.

Your friend may need some counseling, just to get it out of her system. After my father died suddenly I went to a therapist for about 9 months just to talk about it. Friends cannot bear up under that much pressure. Be the best friend you can be, but set limits for yourself and encourage her to get a therapist where she can let it all out.

My Dad. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3411023

I fully admit to being a terrible friend in the aftermath. I didn't want to talk about it...and I did. I didn't want anyone pitying me...and I did. I couldn't stand to talk about what happened to him...and I couldn't stand the thought of NOT talking about it. I was fortunate enough to have a very good friend who let me stay with her for about six weeks after it happened, because I couldn't tolerate being around my other family members. It was easier for me to talk to someone who wasn't family, and who wasn't there when we heard the news.

Your friend is incredibly confused, in emotional agony, likely raging inside, and more than anything--she needs time. And someone to talk to. I wound up suicidal nine months after Dad was killed. I felt an enormous, confusing amount of rage, grief, guilt, loss, and everything in between, and I sometimes think that if I'd have had constant therapy during the six months directly after it happened, I might not have gotten to that horrible point.

It's not fair to expect you to be able to soothe and comfort your friend, because it's really not possible. The only thing that makes the pain of it bearable is time. Even time isn't a cure-all...there will be moments, years in the future, when your friend will suddenly realize that she can no longer remember for sure what her loved one's voice sounded like, or what he/she smelled like. Moments like that are like having a half-healed wound torn open a little. But they get fewer as time goes by.

If this is a very close friend, then the only thing you can do is to be as understanding as you can. Don't let her misdirect her anger at you, but give her a bit of leeway if she doesn't seem emotionally stable. She isn't, and she won't be for a very long time.

:hug:

I think the bottom line to remember with her is that she is unstable right now, and dosn't know what she wants.

I'll meet her in a couple hours, so we'll see how it goes. For all I know she is the one who might cut it short.

I'll be meeting her in a couple hours, and will probably just listen tonight.

Here's a wonderful statement about REALLY listening to someone. Someone gave it to me many years ago and the advice it contains has helped me many times over with my marriage, my kids, and friends. The author is unknown as far as I know.

When I ask you to listen to me and you start giving me advice, you have not done what I asked.

- When I ask you to listen to me, and you begin to tell me why I shouldn’t feel that way, you are trampling on my feelings.

- When I ask you to listen to me and you feel you have to do something to solve my problems, you have failed me, strange as that may seem.

- Listen! All I asked was that you listen, not talk or do – just hear me.

- Advice is cheap; 50 cents will get you both Dear Abby and Billy Graham in the same newspaper.

- And I can do for myself. I am not helpless. Maybe discouraged and faltering, but not helpless.

- When you do something for me that I can and need to do for myself, you contribute to my fear and inadequacy.

- But when you accept as a simple fact that I do feel what I feel, no matter how irrational, then I can quit trying to convince you and can get about this business of understanding what’s behind this irrational feeling.

- And when that’s clear, the answers are obvious and I don’t need advice. Irrational feelings make sense when we understand what’s behind them.

- Perhaps that’s why prayer works, sometimes, for some people – because God is mute, and he/she doesn’t give advice or try to fix things.

- “They” just listen and let you work it out for yourself. So please listen and just hear me.

- And if you want to talk, wait a minute for your turn and I will listen to you.

Original source unknown

:thumbsup:

But I'm sure that experience is not relevant.

When he died everyone who knew him was relieved.

well, most were relieved.

I would take her lead...not being afraid to go where she needs to as far as memories, sorrow, rage at the situation. If you can do that you will help her out more than you will ever know

and it seemed to be soothing for her.

Actually, I think when I lost a close loved one, I would have liked that too. But I curled up in a ball and isolated myself instead. I think people were afraid to approach me. At the time, I didn't give a shit.

but I know it REALLY helps me. Unfortunate not many can do that.In my situation, our family has been pretty much shunned by extended family. Through the grapevine, we have heard things like, they hate to see us so sad, or they don't want to remind us of our loss. The loss is always on our minds.. there's nothing anyone could do to make us feel worse...in our case, anyway. I personally love it when someone who knew my son bring him up and share memories of him. You never know where you might receive comfort, either. The woman who cuts my hair knew my son. Every time I go get a hair cut, we talk about Danny. She just listens,,best therapy I get. My husband even has a hard time just listening. He gets caught up wanting to fix things..even though he knows he can't..and he hates to see me miserable when the grief is intense.
I've done a lot of curling up in a ball too. Reaching out is just to much work when you are so sad. I will forever love the small few who made a consistent effort to reach out to me.I have a friend I rarely see, actually her husband is actually a friend of my husbands.She called me all the time...sometimes I would not want to talk and would not answer, but she didn't take it personal,she continued to call and sometimes it was exactly when I need to cry on her shoulder.

I'm glad you were there for your friend..it takes courage.

She didn't get into the 'beat me" games that I feared.

This bar is quiet on Tuesday nights, and I think that is what she wanted in order to chill down enough to return to work tomorrow. That is another story, because the only thing she was really pissed about is that her work would not count a niece in bereavement pay, and give her more time off.

The only thing I'm kinda concerned about is that she has gone through several cases of beer since last Tuesday, and was tonight drinking mixed drinks till she was snockered.

But on a good note, she was able to hug and touch people, which was a problem for her before. She even thanked me, and the few others there, for letting her unwind and bitch at her leisure.

While she wasn't family, it's close enough. All the family really wants is to be able to reach out to you when they need to. Your friend definitely needs to find some relief in counseling or a support group; my friend's mother got active in Parents of Murdered Children and it helped direct her anger in a positive way.

I know it's hard for you right now but please just be patient. Your friend is coping the only way she knows how and while I'm sorry that she is playing this emotional roller coaster game with you, your frustration is nothing compared to her pain. Be glad that's all you have to deal with.