Is monogamy a myth?

Why would people even use that term? I can understand saying 'it's not for me' but calling it a myth?

x(

and say they are monogamous.

i think when people say its a myth they mean that while there is a lot of appearance of monogamy, very little actual monogamy is going on

:bounce:

:popcorn:

One only has to look at the Republican Party to see that those most militant about mandatory monogamy are those who least skilled at actually maintaining it.

I think the idea that monogamy is somehow the only "natural" way for humans, that we "mate for life" with exclusivity as a matter of instinct, now, that's a myth. We're horny apes. Some of us are better at sublimating and impulse control than others. That's all.

that everyone who claims to be monogamous is just what... lying?

Seems to me that's just as wrong as demonizing polyamory.

but i dont think calling monogamy a myth is demonizing it either. at best it shows a cynical attitude toward monogamy

monogamy like christianity and whiteness and heterosexuality, is the expected norm, so really it cant expect the same sympathy for victimization that polyamory has. :)

I can see where heterosexuality is, and maybe Christianity, but not whiteness. But that is just me.

It's why Anglo history is the only history taught in school.

By saying "monogamy is a myth", people don't mean that every particular case of monogamy is a myth. They mean that monogamy as a cultural institution, as a norm for how relationships in general are supposed to work, doesn't actually hold: cheating is pervasive.

is two martinis and a motel room away from being not monogamous.

I think the statistics are: 50% of all marriages end in divorce, 50% of all married persons cheat, and one in ten people are not the child of the person they think is their father.

:rofl:

But it can and it does.

what a depressing afternoon this is turning out to be.

It's not a myth.

My parents were monogamous. I know they both had opportunities to cheat but they weren't wired that way.

And I guess I'm something of a serial monogamist. I like my guys one at a time. I'm just wired that way.

I think I just should give up.

There sure seems to be a lot of bad things that happen because of jealousy.

My husband is as well, again, i cannot prove that either.

a pretty large portion of both men and women cheat, sadly, for a whole lot of reasons.

I am not a cheater, but we are also not monogamous, per se. It's about communication and being honest with each other. While I will say happily that my wife is the most beautiful and desirable person I know, and we cannot imagine not being together, that does not mean we will never be attracted to, or even fall in love/lust/crush with, anyone else either. We're human (ie: animals), and we both decided that we'd rather be honest and up front about sexuality than the various alternatives.

All that said, monogamy is not a myth either, obviously. When people say things like that, it makes me wonder if they have an agenda.

see... I can understand thinking someone who is not the person you are in love with is sexy. That I get.

But when that appreciation for attractiveness turns into a willingness to act (even if it's not acted on and never seriously considered) that's where I get non-understandy.

I can think lots of guys are sexy. Do I have the slightest urge to touch them or whatever else? No. Not. at. all.

And I'm starting to think there's *very* few people like me and it's fucking depressing...

if you are honest with them?

an open relationship is atleast as understandable as a monogamous one.

and I have some weird kind of obsession with balance or symmetry or something.

I want someone who wants me the same way I want them.

as those who think monogamy is a myth.

dont you think.

i can see you think this is not for you, but to not understand it for other people? whats that about?

What I meant was that that's not how I, personally, feel about someone I'm in love with... and I don't know if I could be happy with someone who isn't like me, because I'd always be wondering if they might someday meet someone that they feel the way I do about them. If that's not too confusing... sorry.

YOU shoudlnt date them and by you, i mean redqueen, not a universal 'you'

i think there are plenty of people who want monogamy and you will find one.

:hug:

and I went looking for stuff about how different species seem to display different types of social / sexual behavior... I think it was used in the title of a Salon article about some scientists who seemed to be claiming that their research proved that *no* species at all are monogamous.

And yeah... no way in hell would I waste any time with anyone like that.

And I hope you're right... but I'm starting to think that I'm weird and unrealistic.

the majority of people who want to be in a relationship with someone want that relationship to be exclusive.

if it helps, I think our appreciation and desire for each other has vastly improved since we've decided to become more open about a year ago (we've been semi-open for the past 8-9 years or so).

We do want each other the same way, we just realize that sometimes there are other circumstances and would rather be honest about it than tempted to cheat or dump over it. We don't really exercise the right very often, but when it comes up (lol), it's not a big deal. Our rules:

1 - be honest
2 - always respect everyone involved
3 - always be safe

There are a few other things we consider more "suggestions" which fall under those three, but that's it.

open relationships. That doesn't mean I look down on people who are in one, but I can't at all understand it. It would never work for me. I am a one man kinda gal.

It's called jealousy, people aren't cool with this free love bullshit, and this was an atmosphere where it totally OK. There's a reason people left those situations.

monogamy, you shouldn't bristle either...

a myth.

maybe because they dont bother to understand it.

understanding something are different deals.

to act, love, behave exactly like you.

I don't expect anyone to behave like me. I know that we are all different. That doesn't mean I understand being with more than one person at a time. I can accept it works for other people and be okay with that, but that doesn't mean I truly understand it. And understanding something and accepting something are also two different deals.

There aren't many like you. I'm that way too, I guess - I've never cheated on a girlfriend. I did ask my friend tonight if it was cheating if I had sex with a girl who wasn't my girlfriend, since it's in a different country, and she's - hypothetically, lets say - a gorgeous 19 year old. He said that it wasn't cheating if she was hotter than my girlfriend, or my girlfriend never finds out. He also said that he thinks people come to him for advice because he'll tell them what they want to hear. *sigh* damn... living in different countries is rough, but I've still never cheated.

You say it's rough. It's not rough for me.

How far away from your SO do/have you lived? For me, it's been different continents. I don't think she or I were ever really tempted, but it certainly sucks, and eyes probably wander more in these situations.

And it's not even fucking requited.

Does that count then?

Does it diminish my feelings if they're not returned? IMO, no.


Different continent... unrequited... and still not even the slightest temptation... not the slightest desire for anyone else. And I've been celibate for years. And I'm a middle-aged woman.

It's the side effect of being in love... for me.

I'm sorry for you :( If you're this committed of a person, you deserve someone who would feel the same way for you.

that it could be viewed that way... yes.

But that's not how I see it. I see it as I'm lucky to find someone that I love, at all. Many people don't.

denial!

People unable to commit or excusing their philandering.

Youngsters like to flooze around, and some folks end up in an unhappy relationship, but overall monogamy makes very good sense. I'm 59, I *do not* want to be out looking for a fox.

I'm married to a nice liberal woman who understands she has to watch the cardinals by herself and doesn't mind my occasional smoke.

What we share, we enjoy more because we're pals. Neither of us is the sexual athlete we used to be, but we have a fine time less frequently.

I don't like "Marriage" "Wife" "Husband" (esp "hubby") or any other of the ownership/misogynistic trappings or nomenclature of sacred marriage. We JPd, admittedly prompted by health insurance and tax issues, but we are as happy as we can be in this 1st decade of the New American Century(tm).

My ex said he was too (when he had no reason not to say it.. and knowing him I think it's true.) -- until we were separated for about 6 months and he decided we were never going to work out our issues. Sex was never one of them.

He's monogamous with his new wife too.

Maybe people are more serially monogamous now.

But monogamy isn't the "norm," based upon dna evidence of parentage. It's a choice people make. Out of four females in my family, one was NEVER monogamous (and neither was her husband) and three of us were always monogamous. Cannot tell you about my step-bros, but my bro was/is, I know.

But I've always liked to flirt. Nothing serious, not going to do anything, not flirting "specifically," - I esp. liked to flirt with older men b/c it made them so happy. But if it was someone near my age, I couldn't flirt and if there was some obvious "chemistry," I took that to my husband for our life.

I've been married 25 years and in that time have not been romantically or sexually active with anyone but my wife. The temptation has definitely been there but I never felt compelled to actually act on it. I don't judge what others do but I'm delighted to be with the love of my life all these years and don't need or want anyone else.

I envy you both.

I am not perfect nor am I without desires, but I have been truly monagamous to all of my partners except one (Sorry, Genevieve). It is an active principle and not a passive one. As a matter of fact, I believe that people who approach monogamy passively are the most likely to "mess up".

No...there is clearly a bit of it going around. I don't think it's a natural state of (wo)mankind as much as a socially-imposed one and one which many people enter into willingly. Then there are those people who don't enter into that state. There are those who have an entirely different expectation of monogamy than their partner does while both parties believe they are monogamous. And finally those who say that they are entering into that state when they are not, in fact, committed to monogamy.

I only have a problem with the last one.

I really think more people need to have the conversation with their "loved one" about what they consider monogamy to mean. It would avoid a lot of hurt in the world. There would be less marriages though, I suspect.

Personally, I don't really think I want to have sexual-relations with just one person for the rest of my life and I have no expectation that anybody married to me do so either. If they kissed someone else passionately though...that'd be the end of the marriage.

First off, human sexuality is complex, so complex that people try to categorize it and fail, miserably. As a species of primate that seeks out sex for many different reasons, procreation, as a form of bonding ritual and for gratification, we naturally have conflicts involving sex.

Not only that, but there are other evolutionary pressures that determine what is favored overall. For example, sex is used for bonding(showing of love) gratification, and for procreation, combined these lead to, most likely, monogamy. This may or may not be favored by evolution, however, given how long it takes for children to grow up, almost 2 decades, having both parents around increases the survivability of the children, so sex could be used in this manner to keep the parents together.

Then again, this may also not be true either, if two people taking care of children increases the survivability of the children, then have three or more parents increases it further, and sex as a bonding ritual between several different people also increases family bonding. So evolutionary pressure may favor polygamy as well.

There's also the pressure to be genetically diverse, in evolutionary terms, so lust and gratification can be used to "spread the seed" as well.

In addition to all of this, there the whole "nature vs. nurture" argument, human beings, being a sapient species, fight our own natural instincts all the time, and being raised a certain way can also override certain instincts as well. Sex may not be any different, depending on the culture you are raised in can determine who ends up monogamous, or how much you appear to be monogamous, according to that culture.

So which of these three are ultimately favored by our species? None of them and all of them, as I said Sexuality is complex in Humans, and categorizing sexuality as favoring any of these three, or any other combination, is foolhardy. Ultimately, how you define your relationships with other people sexually is defined by YOU, no one else. Humans are individualistic, and it is best to seek out relationships that you are comfortable with having.

The key is this, human sexuality is diverse, and conversations like this are helpful. I'll be the first to say that I'm not comfortable with, for example, polygamy for myself, but just because I don't want to have that type of relationship with other people doesn't mean that I think polygamous people are wrong, its just not for me. Sexuality is individualistic, and we shouldn't judge others by our own natural inclinations, because theirs is just as natural. People are different, period, and, on and issue such as this, none of us are right or wrong.

I did find manage to find at least one other person who seemed to see things the way I do... so... there's a little hope, I guess.

Relationships are defined by the people within said relationships, no one else. Other people try to judge others using their religion, cultural practices, or just their own personal convictions, but that simply doesn't matter.

The only thing I object to are those who are dishonest in relationships, the only thing that can truly work in relationships is openness and honesty. If you have to keep secrets and lie to your SO(s), that can only lead to hurt and betrayal. But this is more an objection against being dishonest for selfish reasons, and equally applies to friends and family along with SOs.

It's all up to the people involved... that's it.

Redstone

I'd try it if I could find an honest woman. Honesty is just not a human characteristic.

Do you really believe that?

Is "sympathy" a human characteristic?

I think there are just different types of people.

"the cat broke it" (about something she had broken). Maybe it's a female thing? j/k!!!!!!! :runs:


<P>

I think from a scientific standpoint, monogamy is a myth - most humans have more than one sex partner during their lives, and some humans literally have hundreds, some even thousands.

All kids go through that phase. Some learn why it's bad and grow out of it... others don't.

As for the rest... if a relationship ends for whatever reason then yeah... new partner. I was referring more to the thing where people only want to be with one person for the rest of their life, and there would be no desire to be with anyone else while that relationship was intact.

being honest ;) would say that they had "no desire to be with anyone else" while their relationship was intact. No desire that would come close to trumping their commitment or even simply their desire to be with their current lover? Then yeah, I've heard that expressed.

Rarely, I've heard it expressed that a person had no outside desire whatsoever. I just have to take them at their word on that.


But again, scientifically, I would think the term would be used as compared to other animals, and we humans are just not all that monogamous in that sense (I tend to think we are monogamous in a romantic sense of the word). After all, our relationships "end" with a great deal of frequency, and a large percentage (about half ?) of the people within relationship admit to having sex outside of that relationship.

Not only have I met very few... it seems most people seem to assume if anyone says that, they must be lying.

that would make me comfortable. Meaning, that would withstand poisoning through arbitrary belief, gossip, etc.

Also, I live in LA, so that explains a lot right there, and is completely my fault.

re: LA.

have ever lied to them. I also am not aware of my husband ever lying to me. Maybe honesty isn't easy, but it's possible if a person values it.

Lately I've run into several poly folks, which I'm not interested in. :shrug:

I think I'll be overjoyed when I finally find someone who feels the same as me.

:hi:



lost

:hi:

*sigh*

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



:hug:



lost

:D

Lifelong monogamy is inSANE!

:hi:

:hi:

I was sort of agreeing with your myth statement 'cause myths aren't based on true stories. They are invented.

So, monogamy is NOT a myth :P

*whew*

I just think one partner from age 16 to 90 is a bit kaRAYzee.

:crazy:

It just sounds.... cynical. The kind of thing a person says after a particularly harsh breakup. During those times, I myself have said that love is a myth, marriage is a scam, and that engagement rings are nothing more than a symbol of our consumerism.

But, the months would pass and I'd find myself getting around to re-watching the 'Princess Bride' or 'Love, Actually' again, and realize that maybe that while that one particular love was simple fiction, the real deal is out there. Seeing my friend Brian and his wife of fifteen years acting like giggling school kids on a first date every time I go over to their place... well, it's quite obvious to me that monogamy is quite real. He looks at other women, mind you-- but he compares them to his wife. "She's pretty", he'll say, "but her smile isn't half as cute as my wife's." (and yes-- it can get VERY nauseating sometimes lol)

I have no doubts about that. Sometimes though, I think we can get a bad case of "the grass is greener on the other side" if we allow ourselves to stagnate in a relation. But rather than admitting that as being the case, we justify it to ourselves with a dash of cynicism, a teaspoon of vague excuses and wind up taking the easy way out.


But, on the other hand, I'm the last guy in the world to be pretending to know anything about it...

And thanks for the anecdote about your friend. We should all be so lucky.

:shrug:

I was curious about which species were that way. The Salon article cited scientists whose research showed that they'd found baby birds with DNA which differed from the father's. I didn't read it so I don't know what methodology they used or if it was even mentioned. I *think* I remember reading that they found this in 20% of the nests they checked... so even still, that doesn't seem enough IMO to warrant the nasty title they used.

Plus, other sources will cite that some birds will be frivolous, but it's not the norm.

Depends on the species, I suppose.

It's a choice

edit;
After considerable experience, I choose monogamy. I've been very happy for nearly 17 years now. In fact, I practiced monogamy with my monogamous partner just last night. Fantastic as ever, better in fact since we are so in turn with one another.

The other thing, I can't stand people who deliberately hurt others. If monogamy is not someone's bag, they shouldn't be monogamous. Misleading your partner in this manner is cruel, shitty beyond belief as far as I'm concered. I suppose people change and what not, but I also suppose that before going into a serious committment like monagamy one should be very, very clear on their personal needs

and assume that everyone is like you.

Personally, I am all up into monogamy and can't imagine cheating and managed to find and marry someone as monogamous as me.

Many people don't seem to be well-suited to it. I'm currently into nonogamy and soloamory. No wait, that sounds dirty.

:

With a third personality.

that sounds a little beyond my flexibility. I am impressed.

I.E., only one partner at a time, but one after another.

Personally I prefer straight-up monogamy myself, but I'm fairly certain I'm the exception.

... about which the less you know the better.

what does that make me? :shrug:

even when the evidence is to the contrary...

monogamy a myth.

How do you define monogamy? 1 mate for life... none before, none after?

several mates then settling down and having a mate for life from that point...???

I think that #2 is usually the idea most people have of monogamy, but true monogamy would be #1 wouldn't it? That happens very rarely.

I think that for whatever reason, and there are plenty of theories to describe a social phenomenon that is quite probably not quantifiable to describe anything but aspects of it statistically. Such as having sex affairs, etc. It doesn't ask questions like what happened prior to the affairs, were there mutual affairs, were there understandings?

I'm not justifying having affairs. I think they are wrong if one is married. You also get into if someone is separated but married, are they still married and does an affair count as an adulterous one, or is it the bond has already been broken, so the affair is okay. I'll tell you what my lawyer said, she said anything after I was separated didn't count. :shrug: My lawyer says I've been separated over 18 months under the law. Geographically so for 11 months. So really anything from that point in time in the eyes of the law is out of bounds. Whether it is in the eyes of a person's morals is another story. In mine, it was fine. I was faithful while we were married. We stopped being married long before we even knew it.

Okay

What is my point here??? I am not sure... I think that probably with people living longer you will see more marriage breakups, and you will see survivors remarrying or partnering, even in nursing homes (:grr: where they try to stop that :grr: as if when you go to a nursing home you lose the right to love) So yes it is a myth, probably always has been but that doesn't mean that monogamy doesn't exist in both of the two forms listed at the beginning. A relationship takes a lot of work and dedication from both parties. If one or neither have that it will fall apart, and fairly quickly sometimes. We live in a world of chaos, and the normal condition of life is to be in chaos and trying to find stability. If we find stability we need to recognize it and stay with it rather than think that it can't be stable, or whatever a person thinks that makes them move away from a relationship that was at one time working.

Shit Redqueen, I'm afraid I am not even sure what the hell I'm talking about. My brain is pretty fried. I think I've had some stress in my life in the last week that has totally turned me on my head regarding relationships and what I believed about love. I'm not sure I want to ever have a committed relationship again of any kind. It hurts too fucking much when the other person decides they don't love you the way they think you want to be loved or whatever bullshit reason they come up with.

:(

:cry:

Defs two and three on this link:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monogamy

And if you notice, the "one mate for life" definition is archaic.

Lol I cant read those on my phone. :hug: but Im sure u are right

I honestly don't think about sex with other women, they just would not compare.

If being monogamous means staying with one person and having awesome sex on a regular basis then count me in. :)

it's nice to know that whole 'no desire for anyone else' thing maybe isn't so rare after all. :)

It'd seem like you'd run out of things to say and do together.

:shrug:

My husband and I are both equally committed to a monogamous relationship. It's what makes us happy. You are not weird or alone in your desires for a strong monogamous relationship. :hug:

Seriously. Let's define that. I see a lot of people claiming, "People cheat. Hence, they are not monogamous." Is monogamy an either-or situation? If you're not perfectly monogamous, you're not monogamous at all?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monogamy

2: the state or custom of being married to one person at a time
3: the condition or practice of having a single mate during a period of time


The first definition is the "one marriage for life" thing and that definition is classed as "archaic".



And yes, if you cheat, you're not monogamous. By definition. I guess you could have the drunken mistake situation and write that off as an accident... but knowing the effects of alcohol, it's hard for me to even discount that. Nobody accidentally gets drunk around someone who is not their partner and while their partner is not around.

I mean, as long as monogamous relationships exist, how could the concept be accurately described as a myth? I'd figure anyone using the term would just be doing it for emphasis- whether to emphasize that they don't believe in it for themselves, that a lot of people who claim to be monogamous aren't really, that they don't believe humans are *meant* to be that way, etc. But to claim monogamy is a "myth" as if it doesn't exist just seems goofy.

Inquiring minds want to know if you know.

which makes me think it's probably zero. :P

prrrowwwww.

I think those two kinda go hand in hand, don't you think? Sex = good. So... lots and lots of sex = more good!

It's been found through DNA testing that even in many species long thought to be monogamous, it didn't exist.

I think people are using the term in two different ways - the scientific definition which refers to a species' biological makeup and the CHOICE of monogamy that human beings are capable of making.

Indeed, someone should give every American a poll, for what little it's worth, to see who values the concept or not.

Might be fun.

No names, but age groups and birth dates would allow some interesting results via data mining...

I've been in years (heck well over a decade at one point) in monogamous relationships. I don't think monogamy is necessary natural though for everyone, perhaps even the majority of everyone. Let's put it this way, the concept of my husband having sex with another woman does not bother me. Sex is sex and love is love and we both know the difference. What would bother me is if he want behind my back and he was dishonest or he placed the feelings of another woman above his relationship with me.

If I searched a million years, I could not find a man I loved more or fit with any better than I do him and I'm confident he would say the same about me. We can share all our feelings about anything and everything with one another and have no secrets.

There are no "shoulds" beyond finding someone who wants the same things you want in a relationship and we all have to define for ourselves what that means (and sometimes allow room for ourselves and our partner to grow and change a little). Just be honest with your partner as to what that is.