Let's start by saying I'm a huge bike proponent. I believe they should be pushed as an alternative to cars. Love them love them LOVE them.

BUT...A stop sign (and a yield sign and a red light) is a fucking stop sign whether you're in a car or riding a bike. They are there so we don't all run into each other!

My best example of the local lack of biker regard for roadway laws is this -

I was stopped at a red light on a one way street in the middle lane. I was going to go straight and continue on the road. Anyway three, yes three, COPS on bikes pulled up in the left lane to turn left onto the two way street in front of us (not legal where I live by the way). They all stopped. We were all waiting for the RED light to change when one one of the cops makes an illegal left turn leaving the other two waiting at the light! The two remaining cops laughed and looked embarrassed. The light changed about 20 seconds later and the two remaining officers and myself started moving. I looked left down the street and the cop that ran the red was sitting at the next light waiting for his friends.

Ha fucking ha.

Oh and while coming to a four way stop (four stop signs at a cross road) this morning an attorney neighbor of mine on his/her bike came to his/her stop sign a few seconds after me and blew through it, turned in front of me and I waited for their privileged ass to pedal by, while he/she was waiving "HI".

This is super common in the urban neighborhood where I live.

Do they want to get hit? Or are they just idiots?

Bummer!;(

There are "Share the Road" signs where I am forced to drive BEHIND a cyclist that insists on riding in front of me, like a car. I'll "share the road", but I WON'T ride behind! :grr:

I'm a great fan of bicycles myself, but I'm also realistic. I can't go as fast as a car. I don't want to risk a driver getting mad at me. So I don't ride on arterial streets but on residential streets that run parallel to arterials.

However, "vehicular cyclists" believe that cyclists should have the same right to ride in the middle of a car lane as a car does, and they're quite insistent on it. Having seen car and truck drivers deliberately try to run cyclists off the road or harass them, I think "vehicular cyclist" is another term for "person with a death wish."

Granted, I wasn't driving on an arterial street; it was a smaller street that leads to my apartment building. She wasn't just riding in the middle of the lane, she was riding almost in the middle of the road - nearly on top of the yellow line. Plus, to boot, she wasn't wearing a helmet, and seemed to revel in how leisurely she was riding.

If I have to have all of this to be able to drive on the public highways, then the bikers need to have all of this, too.

I am not opposed to bikes and think there are going to be many more people pedalling these days and in the future, but it is dangerous when bike riders insist on being on the highway where there are not bike lanes specifically made for them.

And P.S. guys...NO MAN looks good with his ass in the air and his "credentials" hanging down in spandex.

If I get to a stop sign and there are no cars in sight, I will just slow down to double-check and then pedal through.

I'm not in a car. I'm one step up from a pedestrian. If a car beats me to a light or sign I can easily and safely ride around (to the rear) of the car, or quickly hit the side walk etc... Why should I shed any of my precious hard earned, muscle driven, momentum for lights and signs designed to keep morans in cars from bouncing off one another?

Having said all that I will also say that when I say "share the road" I mean that I keep my 15 mph riding ass moving with traffic and as far to the right and out of the way as is possible and I'm never arrogant/ asinine enough to put myself on a major thoroughfare unless there is absolutely no possible alternative (this is very rare except in Taylor MI which apparently has decided that as a city they do not need sidewalks or even space for foot paths...)

My neighbor got one the other day.

I could also get a ticket for not wearing a 35 dollar helmet that will do absolutely nothing to protect me in the event that I am mowed down by a 2 ton Denali but all I've got on my head is hair and the occasional pair of fake Ray Bans...

over, but it will save your noggin should you hit a patch of gravel and take a tumble.

1. Years ago, I had a neighbor who worked at Cornell Labs. He did some of the early product safety research, and reviewed the data about little kids falling off the old-style tricycles. That Friday, his kids' trikes were on the curb waiting for the garbage men.

2. Several years back, my daughter went across the street with a a friend and they attempted to ride their bikes down the steep driveway to the river. SHe panicked, hit the brakes to hard and flipped the bike. She hit the ground hard enough to rupture her spleen. She skidded and took some skin off her cheekbone. Her helmet had a good dent in it. Without it, she would have hit the pavement with her forehead and taken our her pre-frontal lobe.

And want to sue everyone you can. :puke:

Act 300 of 1949


257.657 Rights and duties of persons riding bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, or moped or operating low-speed vehicle.

Sec. 657.

Each person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, or moped or operating a low-speed vehicle upon a roadway has all of the rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this chapter, except as to special regulations in this article and except as to the provisions of this chapter which by their nature do not have application.

bikes are notoriously invisible to motor vehicle operators.

In any event this means I've been riding the streets of suburban Detroit each summer on and off for about 32 years. No helmet and all. I think I'll be OK.

:) Mr. Saavik, you keep right on quoting regulations.

safety is everyone's priority on this jobsite.

:)

Wait! I've got an idea! Maybe I could try tilting my head up and moving it from side to side, then look with my eyes, and then make a judgment with my brain as to whether or not I need to stop or change course in order to avoid cars and other road hazards.

Nah. That could never work. We should just pass a law telling grown men and women how to ride bicycles. What other solution could there be?

:hi:

The law still applies to you whether you obey it or not.

I keep forgetting that.

The rest of the wold should follow the laws, so that you can be free to do whatever you want.

I'm smarter than any frigging LAW. The laws are made for the MOUTH BREATHERS who do not know any better. Smart people can exercise good judgment and courtesy without having it all spelled out for them. If I need to stop in order to be a safe and courteous user of the road I do. If it is not necessary then I do not.

You know what Rabrrrr? You can take this typical (for you) display of sanctimonious "tisk tisk tisking" someplace else. Thanks.

Is there an IQ cutoff? How does that work?

If it's an IQ thing, then I probably would be above almost any law - and if so, I want to know so I can stop wasting my time following the rules.

When I think of how much of my life I've wasted because I never realized that my intelligence makes me above the law...

Or maybe it's only people on bicycles that don't have to follow the law. Perhaps there's a clause somewhere that says "All laws are always valid, unless someone is on a bicycle seat".

I've certainly seen a hell of a lot of them, sanctimonious little pricks who think they can do whatever they want on the road because, goddammit, they're bicyclists and gee whee fun! it's the cars' jobs to look out for them, even when they're where they're not supposed to be, not the job of the cyclist to care about what's going on.

Thankfully most bicycle riders aren't those kind of pricks.

That's harsh.

Nice post Novak.

well hell theres the problem.You bike in a place nicknamed taylortucky.


J/K :hide:

Used to date a girl who lived off Allen just west of Telegraph WAY BACK in the day

Provided your attorney neighbor could see there was no cross traffic.

they incur enough wrath and ill will that it spills over on the rest of us.

I experience the same as a motorcyclist -- the yahoos and the paleolithic posers reflect badly on the rest of us, and it's bad enough as it is with every car driver apparently out to kill us.

I'm not too keen on bicyclists riding on sidewalks or across pedestrian crossings, too. I never did that kind of thing, when I bicycled. In every jurisdiction within which I've lived, the road rules pretty clearly state that bicyclists have to observe the same traffic rules as apply to every other vehicle driver, which'd rule out stuff like riding on the sidewalk and endangering pedestrians as well as intentionally blocking entire lanes (or multi-lane roadways) by not going anywhere near the speed limit.

i've witnessed auto/pedestrian accidents.

just loud hollow thuds and softy/wet/heavy sliding sounds.

these things don't mix well.

it's like driving a car: stay away as much as possible from other vehicles.

i nearly ran head on into a bike messenger heading sb down racine near madison.

this messenger darts around a van into oncoming traffic right in front of me.

and these are narrow ass city streets.

lucky he corrected himself quickly, because there was no way i could stop in time from doing about 45 mph at least half a block away from the left turn.

Or when a car going across the street in front of me is pulling up to the stop sign (and clearly stopping), I'll go straight through without stopping if I am there first. But if we both pull up at the same time, I'll stop and wait. Turning left on a two way street with a traffic light... I would never go through the red light, traffic or not.

don't follow the road rules, primarily because they are far more vulnerable than drivers to bodily harm.

I personally don't want to be responsible for hurting a bike rider, even if such a thing was the result of THEIR disregard for the rules of the road.

I am respectful of bicyclists, but they need to be respectful of the rules of the road, and not pull stupid ass shit that can cause things to go horribly wrong.

Bicyclists: Please obey the rules!

Drivers: Please to the same, and be respectful of the bicyclists!

I was stopped at a red light on a side street, planning to take a left onto an extremely busy four-lane street with active trolley tracks in the middle of the street. Parked cars lined the major street and pedestrians are everywhere, as this is by a major urban university. After my light turned green, I proceeded into the street, heading into a left turn when I suddenly had to hit my brakes because some bonehead on a bicycle ignored his red light and came flying straight through the intersection and into my path. Fortunately, my brakes slowed me down enough so I didn't hit him. He just gave me a look and kept on going.

I can't stand bicyclists on the road, mainly because they seem to think they are exempt from the rules of the road. Unfortunately, my commute to work takes me through a student-laden area where lots of bikes are commuting alongside me.

a lot of times it is extremely inconvenient for a biker to stop at a stop sign because it's a real pain to get going again....especially on hills or inclines. Also on a decline where you can gain momentum before going up an incline.

You just have to use common sense and be courteous to drivers when you do this. If there is a car waiting at a stop sign, I never run it.

Edit: Also, us bikers could start a gigantic thread about asshole car drivers who don't follow the rules of the road, which endangers our lives. A dude on a bike never threatened anyone's life except if they caused a motorist to have a bad accident.

http://www.cicle.org/cicle_content/pivot/entry.php?id=1963

<snip>
Colin Yates, 47, was driving with his wife and two teenagers in his family's green Subaru Legacy when he saw a bicyclist pass him on the left and blow through a stoplight on Southeast 20th Avenue at Belmont Street. Yates continued driving north on 20th Avenue, through another intersection, until he caught up with the bicyclist.

Yates honked his horn, leaned out his window, and chided the bicyclist for making other cyclists look bad. Yates, a self-described bike advocate for more than 30 years, told the bicyclist that he was a responsible bike rider who gets upset when he sees fellow riders disobeying traffic signals.
<snip>

<snip>
McAtee turned on Yates. He lifted his bike above his shoulders and struck Yates with it, Yates said. Yates tried to use his hands to block the blows and then ducked back into his car and attempted to leave. But McAtee got in front of the Subaru and repeatedly struck the vehicle with his bike, Yates said.

Yates stepped from his car again and was struck five to seven more times with McAtee's bicycle, police reports say.
<snip>

so what's the difference?

being tailgated by a cop. It is like they are trying to bully you into speeding up so they can then stop you and give you a ticket.

to see if you have any warrants or a long record...and watching for an excuse to pull you over. Its easy to come up with an excuse.

People in cars? Not so much.

And they are definately going to get the worst of a road rage incident.

I've wondered when red lights and stop signs became optional. When I used to drive and accidentally ran a stop sign in a deserted, middle-of-nowhere, I felt awful. Now they just breeze right on through - many without even looking. Maybe it's the self-centeredness and selfishness culture.

For safety, I assume every driver is trying to kill me, and ride accordingly. No problems. Just keep an eye on driving behavior and evolve with it.

Sure there are dickhead bikers. Especially the Tour de France poseurs.

as I was passing a bike and realized she was too close. I thought I had misjudged the distance and not given her space. Then I happened to see this rider again a number of times. She wears flip flops and has a pair of running shoes AND a heavy bag swinging from the left hand handlebars. I swear that she is aiming for suicide by car. I see her riding along in a nice wide shoulder on a 55 mph state highway only to swing out into the road just a car is passing her! The following cars immediately slow to a snail's pace because NO ONE who saw this would pass unless they had a full lane! Her schedule and mine apparently coincided, because I saw this stunt several times. I was debating calling up the state police to see if they could do something about this before she caused an accident. The worst part would have been that she would have caused the accident, but the driver of the car would have borne the guilt!

it drives me nuts on a busy road when I see it, but on our main town strip it's pretty standard and expected to do that. It's a very pedestrian/cycling oriented town.

are going sooo fast and doing wheelies and stuff. Weaving in and out of traffic. Not cool. I really don't feel like seeing someone die today right in front of my eyes. I am so glad we have our little daredevils out there, but you look like idiots when you think you look cool. Go do your tricks on an abandoned road or something.

What kind of bicycles fit that description?

They don't really have anything to do with bikes, but I just wanted to throw that complaint out there. I haven't had any issues with bicyclist. Yet.

Blowing a stop sign in a bike is like going 5 mph over the speed limit in a car.

It's just not a big issue.

By a car for running a stop sign, then it'll be a big issue. And of course the motorist will be blamed instead of the idiot cyclist.

Cyclists cut right in front of me without warning. Of course, I hate when other motorists do that too, but cars are easier to see, and unlikely to zip out of tiny spaces where you wouldn't expect a vehicle. And the driver of a car who does that is far more likely to survive the encounter if the other driver isn't on the ball.

They always seem to glare at me, as if somehow it's my fault for not being a mind-reader when I have to jam on my brakes to avoid hitting them. I'm a careful driver - I've never had an accident that wasn't due to mechanical failure or bad judgment on another driver's part - but not everybody else can claim that. I don't have to be psychic to predict they'll eventually lose the contest.

...Or else get the traffic laws changed, if they can. End of fucking story. I live in NYC. Manhattan. So I'm a pedestrian. Here's what I don't like about cyclists (all of which is illegal): Driving the wrong way on a one-way street. Going through red lights. Riding on sidewalks. Violating any other traffic law in NYC, which is basically the same for bikes as it is for cars. I don't give a fuck that bike messengers are "really busy" and that bikers delivering take-out food "really have to get there right now." Pedestrians who are obeying traffic rules are hit every day here by bikers, and once in a while someone is killed.

New York, specifically Manhattan, can only function sanely if people agree to follow the rules when it comes to public safety. When I ride my bike, I obey all traffic laws. I've been almost wasted many times by bikers who don't. My wife, walking, was clipped two days ago by an asshole going the wrong way. If I'd been there, I would have chased the guy down.

Self delete...

Basically, I look at it like this: Bicyclists, if you wish to be recognized as full fledged commuters, travelers, etc. who have legitimate claim to the road, and travel busy streets then you should be expected to obey the rules of traffic even if, at times, you are safe in not doing so. I could often disregard stop signs in my car, without danger to myself or anyone else in my quiet neighborhood, but if I were caught I'd get a ticket and should get a ticket. Furthermore, if you're riding with children, what kind of message are you sending when you disregard traffic laws? If it's okay to break that law, what other law is it okay to break? Do you explain that those laws are only for cars?

It's like I tell students who work for me, if you want to be treated like an adult then you must act like one. You can't act like a kid and then complain when you're treated as such. If you believe traffic laws apply differently to you as a cyclist, go ahead, just don't complain when motorists believe they have a greater claim to the road than you do. You can't have it both ways.

FTR, I happily share the road with bicyclists and treat them courteously and safely. It isn't always reciprocated.

:-(

Obviously

:hide:

when there is a beautiful, well-maintained bike path 10' from the road and they insist on riding in the road! I live in the Twin Cities and there are bike paths around most of the lakes, along with a two-lane parkway. To go around some putz on a bike requires me to swerve into oncoming traffic. Excuse me if I get pissed because of that. Get on the goddam bike path our taxes paid for you wankers!

not only incredibly dangerous and disrespectful, but they give the rest of the cycling community a bad name. :grr:

I always follow the rules and am very good at using my hand signals, as well.

It's all about SAFETY and RESPECT, in my opinion.

I should get an airhorn for my bike when I see fellow cyclists doing that, just to get their attention. If they don't like it, tough; at least they will be reminded of how dangerous it is to them and others, be that drivers or other cyclists.

I cannot recommend enough the following site to be read by those that follow the rules, those that don't and those that don't ride:

How to Not Get Hit by Cars with such dangers as "The Wrong-Way Wallop", "The Crosswalk Slam" and "The Door Prize".


:o

as one of those bike riders who doesn't follow the rules. found better ways of riding in the city and avoiding traffic. but then, i'm on a moutain bike, and can hop curbs and ride where no road dares to go.

but really, it's for my own safety. the roads are full of driver out to kill me coz paying attention to the what they're doing is last thing on their minds.

Like at an intersection, four lanes for both roads. The speed limit was 45 mph. I saw a high percentage of being taken down by a car if I didn't make my left turn onto the road while nothing was coming as opposed to waiting for the light to turn. I always road as close to the right side as possible but it didn't stop cars from driving within inches of me on this same road. I didn't have a driver's license at the time. This was my only way to work, which was 7 miles away.
I would have never turned in front of a car, but given how unfriendly to cyclists the road seemed, I fully expected that a car would turn in front of me.

I bike-- have for decades. And I obey the traffic laws (and expect motorists to treat me just like any other vehicle on the road!).

I see them all the time in SW Florida riding along the side of 4 lane roads. They are always fitness guys dressed like Lance Armstrong. The roads here are BUSY, but mostly straight away 40-50 mile an hour driving. The riders are in 3 foot bike lanes next to the righthand driving lane. I know if I was on a bike and cars were passing within 5 feet of me from behind going 40-50 miles an hour it would scare me. What's weird is, there is almost always a really nice sidewalk running on each side of the road where I drive. But these guys are fitness fanatics.

As for Energy efficiency, buy a scooter for 2k-3k. One of the big ones, make sure it has enough CC to go 50 mph in 8 seconds. Buy a full face helmet with a front visor that can slide up. Stay off the busiest roads, just ride to your work or bum around just having fun. Best 3k you'll ever spend. That quick trip to the convenience store to get whatever, it used to cost you at least $4 to get there. Everytime you start your car up cold it burns more fuel. Same with a scooter. Except it gets 100mpg on a bad day.

(Gnashes teeth). Sidewalks are for pedestrians. Bicycles are vehicles. Pedestrians belong on the sidewalk, cyclists belong on the road. Motorists need to slow down and pay attention when the vehicle in front of them is two wheeled and human powered.

I've never ridden in Florida

Almost all my riding is done on two lane roads with a 35 mph speed limit

Being in close proximity to large vehicles doesn't scare me. After almost 20,000 miles of collision-free riding I've gotten pretty good at knowing how to stay safe.

Using a bicycle for transportation gives me enough financial flexibility that I can afford to accept a relatively low-paying job doing something I love, instead of whoring myself out just to make ends meet.

Seems quite rational to me.

These days, I'm on a 350-pound enduro, and they're the only jackasses on the road I can run into without dying. So given the choice between a bicyclist with his head up his ass or a pickup truck, I prefer the bicyclist. :shrug:

I play by the rules of the road, no matter what I'm steering, because that's what the next guy is expecting. And I've seen enough carnage to know two things:

1. Every kind of vehicle has a jackass steering it sometimes.
2. The bicyclist always gets the short end of the stick.

Last bicyclist I saw on a big road ride get hit was passing another bike without checking behind him. Darted out in front of a car that actually had given him plenty of room, if he hadn't decided to pass the other bike. When I rolled up, I thought the guy the paramedics were working on was a wheelchair racer, because I couldn't tell anything about the bike (too smashed) and his legs had been broken backwards at the thigh bone. Sort of bent his legs behind his body, and all the bleeding (at first) was internal. Couldn't tell he had legs back there until later.

No, he didn't live. He's fucking dead, and someone who ran into him has to deal with it forever.

Bike riders, motorcyclists and car drivers who all think they're better than those around them are just a short paragraph in the back of the newspaper, waiting to happen. They're kidding themselves, maybe, but not me.

in my state a bike rider doesn't have to stop at a stop sign or a red light unless there is someone coming. So when I'm out riding my bike I look both ways at an intersection and go through if nothing else is coming my way.

Q3JR4.

And run them over when they run red lights... or knock them the fuck out when they almost run you over by screaming down a sidewalk (which is illegal in my state).

I have a worse opinion about jaywalkers.. more so when then then jaywalk at one of those intersections that only allow 4 cars to go through, and prevent all but maybe 1 car to make it through. Fuck them.

Then again, I witnessed a bicyclist get hit by a car, and the brains on the ground is still haunting (I posted a lounge thread about that). My anger reaction isn't what I wish.

I had a green light and nobody in the crosswalk. This dummy zips up ON MY RIGHT, and then when I stop to yield to him the dummy stopped too, when I gassed it to go, he started moving up again -

STOP OR GO - NOT BOTH - YOU DUMB MOTHERF*&%ER OR I WILL RUN YOU OVER!

:grr: