ladies of the lounge, can you spare some honesty?

So here I am, 43 years old. I have worked in a lot of different fields (from bag boy to cop, from manufacturing to running data centers for a large bank, to being a business analyst/programmer currently).

Three relationships in my life. 10 years with my X wife (who died in July 2005). 3 years with my X GF in CA. And most recently nearly 11 years with the woman whom I have written a lot about here on DU and the mother to my precious little daughter (who has also posted here once).

I have been a good and loyal man to those I loved - I would say though that my First X and I had serious issues and did not love one another, we stayed together for the kids. So I don't really blame her or me as we were both young (I do blame her however for what she did to our kids after we split up and I did not see them for 8 years, but I digress).

During the sickness of my last X (my first X also was quite ill at times from her birth defects, which eventually took her life) I tried to be the best man that I could. She never had to work, I worked my butt off, Took care of her and our daughter.

My X GF in CA still tells me I am the one man she could be open with and talk to. My recent X still calls me to talk, and still cries on my shoulder when she is down (and she still loves me dearly, but this disease has taken her mind). Both say they still love me like no one else they ever have (note: I left my X GF in CA, not that she was a bad person, it was just that I had kids here and she needed to stay there, and well...it is a long story but we are still good friends and she understands why I left to be near my kids now).

I am starting to think that being a nice guy is the wrong approach. My X is now with a nice guy, but he is more like her dad - demanding of her but also taking care of her. I took care of her, but was not demanding - I just let her be her.

Do women need someone to take the reins and be controlling? Do they need someone just like their dad (although in my X's case I just think she needed something to blame for her illness, and that something became a someone - me)? Is honesty about who someone is a bad thing, would women rather men lie to them and hide their past history?

I have been chatting of late with some folks on some dating sites. If I tell them about me I either get 'You are too cool to be true' or I get 'I don't need any drama in my life'. Although I have had a few nice responses.

I have devoted my entire adult life, since I was 19, to being a good dad and good husband to those I have been with. I have either been with the wrong people, or I have been too nice.

So now I sit here alone after all these years looking to just be that special someone. Accept me as I am, I will you as the same.

It just appears I missed the boat, and something is deeply wrong with me.

So what is it about me that is so bad?

There's nothing wrong with you. You sound like a really good person.

You can't get an answer to a question like "What do women want?" because we're all different. What I might need is possibly the very quality that would send another woman screaming. So, you just have to deal on a woman-by-woman basis.

But, I'm wondering - and these are just questions that arose when I read your story - if your serious relationships have all been with women who have been disabled in one way or another, mental or physical? Did I read that correctly, or am I putting something there that isn't there?

Until I know more, I ain't gonna pontificate.

THEN, I'll pontificate.

;)

:shrug:

My First x had several birth defects, which I did not know about until after we were married really. X GF, she just had asthma. And my current X was fine until a few years ago.

in other words, I didn't know about the problems until later. And I did the best I could to help them - my X wife would not have died IMHO had I still been with her. But her new man let those issues slide and they killed her - whereas I saved her life once when her doctor told her she was fine and sent her home. I research the issues at library, got her back into the hospital, and all was ok. When he came across the same situation he just ignored it, and it killed her (she only had half a kidney, and several other birth defects).

And, as I have talked about here at length, my current X was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease not too awful long ago. Up until then, she was fine really for most of our years together (though I and others noticed some changes in her before that which is why we went to the Dr to find out what was wrong).

You have not been fortunate - in some ways - with your women, and I feel for you, and for them. Health problems can wreak havoc on any relationship.

Listen, there is no such thing as "too nice." You are who you are, and, as I said, you sound like a really special guy. I wish I had someone to fix you up with, because my guess is that you're a prize.

You just haven't met her yet, but you will. Do you have the kind of life that causes you to meet a lot of new people? I'm thinking the traditional venues - church, school affairs (if your kids are school age), community organizations. How about being politically active? Local Democratic Party workings? Maybe there's something that you can do there.

Neighborhood bar?

There seems to be epidemic loneliness - or aloneness - in our society. So many people alone, good people who don't want to be solitary. You are not unique in your situation, although you do seem to have had your share of very rough times. I wish I had some words of wisdom to offer you, but I don't. I just know that things happen and love comes in the most surprising moments, wearing the funniest outfit, when you least expect it.

Like grabbing mercury, it seems to be a thing that has to find you, you can't just seize it. But, I have a feeling you'll be in the right place at the right time, and your life will change. For the better.

I wish you every, every damn bit of luck. As I said, you strike me as someone quite special ................

:hug:

A few nights ago she was over here (she lives across the street from me). First yelling and upset, then playing with our dogs (one of which I got her for her b-day years ago and she loves dearly), then holding me and crying, then upset at me again. This went on for five hours, until she finally went 'home'. I took the day off work as my daughter was here and I knew she could not care for her the next day (it was 5:30 am when she finally went home).

She posted about me here on DU, and I her. I have seen it in her eyes when I hold her and she is shaking and has a hard time moving - she misses me. But I also know, from talking to her of late, that she is slipping. She can't remember a lot of things, sometimes from one minute to the next. She calls me at work all mad about something concerning me, yelling and angry, then less than an hour later calls me all sweet and just wanting to talk to me about whatever.

I lost her to something I cannot fight. And I am still doing good things for her (she is covered on my car insurance, I have gotten her and him food when they needed it, etc).

I feel caught between two worlds. And scared for my daughter whom has seen too much the last few years.

I put up with the abuse, physical and mental, and I would again - because somewhere inside of her is that wonderful woman I fell in love with. But somewhere deep inside I realize I won't be getting that special woman back. I see brief glimpses of her, I hear it in her voice when she calls me sick and upset. And I push away that she is with someone else and be the best I can to her.

And somewhere deep inside I know she is dying, not just from that disease but the brain cyst which has probably gotten bigger (and I told her today when she sees the doc on Monday to ask him to get another scan of it).

Sorry for the rant, but the last week has been a rough one - watching her through all this while trying to move on and hearing person after person tell me I have too much in my life to offer them something.

so please don't apologize.

But, with her physical proximity - right across the street - and your ongoing involvement in her life, and hers in yours, above and beyond your daughter, you really are stuck. No woman is going to want to get involved with you, and, yeah, it sucks to hear that, but I know I'd steer clear while your ex is so prominent, and needy, in your life.

It's impossible for you to move on while she's there. I don't mean to sound callous, but you don't have the emotional energy it takes to start a new relationship and sustain it. As we get older, that energy diminishes, and we get tired, and it's no wonder that you're here tonight, wondering, if you've had, as you say, "... a rough one." You know better than anyone else how tired you are.

It's such a sad story, and I am so sorry for all of you. I trust she's bi-polar, or am I guessing badly, and, if that's the case, or anything like it, you really are tied up. We're all victims, sometimes, of those we love.

Your time will come. Right now, you're taken, but, in whatever way you choose, your time will come. It will. None of us can make a clean break with our pasts, but your past is also your present. And that's gonna hold you back.

I wish you all the good luck in the world ....................

She is bi-polar. Have seen it first hand and even told her to ask her doctor about it.

Every time the phone rings and I see it is her I am afraid - it is either going to be the good and kind her, or the one that rips me for god knows what.

Our old neighbor in CA remembers the fights well as she would hear my X yelling at me for hours, as I tried to escape (I talked to her not long ago after she sent me a letter). And then she would all the sudden be loving and want to make out.

And yeah, I didn't talk about that part of it in my posts here. I guess I wanted to protect her and how others saw her, because I didn't think they would understand. She was/is sick, she changes from one minute to the next - and through it all she sees me as either the worst man in the world to the most awesome. I felt I was a saint for a few minutes, then a sinner for hours, and then all that was erased as she called me the next day at work and was sorry and told me how much she loved me and needed me and we both said we were sorry.

And, well now, it is too late for me and us - and my little girl is caught in the middle.

Her mom is a good woman, despite her issues. She loves her daughter. Even when there were nights our daughter clung to me scared of mommy - there are some things mommy does best. And our little girl is the one thing that no matter what snaps her out of everything and brings her (and me) back to reality (usually).

No matter what happens now I know she is not coming back - because I know her. But I also know, given a few years or less she will be unhappy where she is and need someone to turn to. And part of me thinks the right thing to do is be here and waiting to catch her when she falls, because this is something out of the ordinary. And part of me just wishes I could find someone and move on with life.

I feel trapped, and maybe my biggest issue is that I want someone to love and take care of, because maybe that is what I am used to. I keep putting me last, and feeling guilty over doing things I like (but then, I have heard for some time I am a bad person because I did not give more).

Yeah, I need help :)

Sounds like she cycles much faster than a bi-polar would, and my next guess is a type of personality disorder, which is a very vague term, quite subjective, but personality disorder types are the ones like you describe - flipping from one persona to another in seconds, both of them inappropriate. There's no dealing with someone like that. None. Ever.

You know what the problem is - you've identified it quite clearly. But, so long as you're held hostage by your daughter's mother - and, consequently, by your daughter - you're not going to be able to make any progress. I feel for you, but especially for your daughter, whose exposure to those scenes have made impressions that will affect her for the rest of her life. She's lucky she has you to be a stable figure in her life.

Yeah, get some help. It sounds like it's time for you to start doing things for yourself. Just for you. You say that you want someone "... to love and take care of." You know, it's also OK to want someone to love and who will care for you as much as you care for her. You don't have to earn your way in a relationship by "taking care of" someone. It's a two-way street.

I can't imagine, given what you've written here, who might characterize you as a "bad person" because you didn't give enough. Sounds to me like you've done far too much, and, in the process, have dug yourself into a deep hole.

Find a professional and let someone help you untangle your life. It'll be the best investment you'll ever make.

And again - I keep saying this - I wish you the best of all possible luck .......................

among other things. He was also brilliant. Sometimes he could be incredibly charming, caring and warm. But other times one of the diseases affecting him would take over. I know so much about him because he would choose someone to be his superstar and they would become his everything, then 6 months to a year later they would become the source of everything bad. I was one of those people. When I was his superstar he had me going over his medical records to help him figure them out, that's how I know so much about him (I should probably mention here that my job was to be a wallcovering designer, so it was way outside of my job description to be so involved in his personal life).

Anyway, having that experience gives me a tiny little bit of insight into your situation. When I try to imagine also being married to such a person and loving him/her completely, I cannot wrap my mind around how difficult that must be. You would have to be a saint to survive that. Big hugs to you.

I hope you don't give up being a nice guy. And like someone upthread said, women want different things. Some women want/need someone to coddle them, others someone to treat them like crap. But some are just nice girls who need a nice guy. You just have to find her. And I truly hope you do, because you deserve happiness. Don't give up, just be patient. I know that's easy for someone to say.


:hug:

:hug:

That wouldn't be me, but some women do prefer that. Some may want a father figure. Maybe that missed that in their youth. :shrug: But all women want you to be honest. At least deep down they do.

You had a relationship for 11 years with one woman. I consider that successful if those years were happy mostly. Not everyone is meant to be together forever.

I don't think there is anything wrong with you. You are still friendly with your exes. You were at least able to leave those relationships amicably or have been able to be amicable. A lot of relationships end so badly.

Not sure what advice to give. :shrug: But good luck either way.

age have had just three long-term relationships. That's a pretty good track record, in my opinion.

I certainly don't need anyone to take the reins. That would be the very thing that would cause me to pull away rather than draw me closer.

Why do you feel that there is something "deeply wrong" with you? I don't think that that's a logical assumption to make and that you're being much too hard on yourself.

I hope that you find the perfect woman for yourself. It can take a lot of tries until you find the perfect match.

Good luck!

women at work really seem to like me. They just know me for who I am day to day. But I don't like getting involved with people at work.

Those I have met online I have been able to communicate with more openly. They ask me about my life, and I tell them the truth - not simply 'I am employed and hard working, have a career, etc' but about the whole me. What my life has been, what my kids have meant to me, and so on.

I know I have been through years of absolute hell, and I guess that scares people off and I see that as something bad about me. My X used to rail at me a lot about me being depressed over me losing my kids. The pain of losing them was hard on me, so I guess I feel bad about being someone who has been through a lot.

I never meant to have all this pain, just wanted a simple life. Just seems some are threatened by people with baggage/issues and so I feel there is something wrong me because I have went through what I have.

To be honest, I have been beaten down a lot for years from several people I loved because of the pain I have suffered - I suppose I was just expected to ignore the pain and move on. And I didn't, because it was so deep. A strong man would have not felt anything.

I did, and it hurt. And it still hurts.

That's not true. A truly strong man will feel, and will allow himself to feel.

It sounds to me as if you have some grieving left to do before you can get past your pain. Don't ignore it.

chin up!

perhaps because it is a challenge or maybe a thrill. Perhaps you should toss caution to the wind when you become really interested in someone. Don't just show the good side of you. Women instinctively will know that you are a good guy but will want to see some of the characteristics of that other side of your personality. Having said that, you are who you are, and you shouldn't put up an act for anyone. But on the other hand, don't just lay down your aces. Throw in a couple of your true deuces. You are respectful to women but once in a while you wouldn't mind it if they commented on your great ass? Good. Let it be known. You're more than willing to take the kids camping, but once they're in their sleeping bags, you want to rather explore the bushes with momma than play scout master? Good! Whisper that in her ear.

Ok, maybe these aren't good examples, but all I'm trying to say is stop being so grown up and responsible all the time. Leave some room for fun.

I thought you were/are married. I'm sorry for not reading more, but could I please get the condensed version of what happened with your most recent wife? If I remembere, she has MS, I think...but I thought you were still married. (?) :shrug:

Like I said, I always seem to be lost around here. :dunce:

and are still going through.

For a little hard truth,though: it sounds like you have an invested self-interest as the "nice guy," the caretaker, and so you consciously or unconsciously seek out women who are needy.

You're not ready for a new relationship. You're still too entangled with your ex.

It's not a matter of being too "nice." It's a matter of having spent decades dovetailing with people whose damage fits yours like a jigsaw puzzle piece. I just recently swallowed this hard truth in my own life: the common denominator in all your failed relationships is YOU.

Whenever you start asking what "women" really want, you should know that's the wrong question , because there are at least 3 billion women in the world, and every single one is an individual with her own particular wants and needs and issues. I don't ask what "men" want - and believe me, I've often wondered, because "men" as a whole are just as full of mixed messages and buried-landmine childhood issues and ambiguities and fantasy/reality splits as women. What you need to do is figure out what YOU want, and do your damndest to find the closest match.

Read The Femimine Mystique. It's all about the damage that wanting to be the perfect loving caretaker and ideal spouse can do. It's aimed at women because that's who usually gets roped into that role from childhood, but I think men with a "white knight" complex, like you, can benefit from a lot of the insights if you just do a little mental pronoun translation.

If you really want real insights into "what women want," I can tell you this woman (the only one I can speak for) wants a good-looking kinky sex freak with good taste in music who is well-read and good at conversation, loves animals, not too much of a neat freak, and can make me laugh until I pee. Those are the important things. Care-taking is optional, willing to share duties in that regard, not a major criterion yet thank the gods.

love yourself, baby. Seriously. My son was in your position just 18 months ago. he had given so much to his very needy mate that he got lost in her needs. he was rendered empty, vacant without her. whatever it takes to feed you, do that now as often as you are able.

good luck.


p.s. my son is way well now.

"with your ongoing involvement in her life". Right there is your problem.

What woman is going to want to put her emotions on the line for some man who is, admittedly, still very much involved in the life of the woman to whom he had been married for eleven years?

You say "she's with someone new now." Any woman with whom you become involved is going to respond "Well then, why isn't she running to him?"

Think about it. Would you want to get emotionally involved with a woman who ran to her ex - instead of you - when she had a problem?

Personally, I would look upon a relationship with someone in your situation as a relationship in which I was setting myself up for a world of hurt when you and she (the ex) decided you and she could 'work things out'.

If you honestly think it's over, then move on. I know that you're used to taking care of her and being there for her, but by your own admission, she has a new person there now; and if expect another woman to become involved with you, you need to distance yourself from your ex. Limit your interactions with your ex-spouse to issues regarding your daughter.

Personally, I would avoid you - or anyone in your situation - like the plague.

But, that's just me and, I've never been accused of being overly compassionate or empathetic. In my own defense, however, I do have a huge 'SUCKER' sign plastered on my forehead when it comes to little kids and animals.

Best of luck to you.

All women are different.

But....and I say this from the very skewed perspective of a man who has been with the same
woman for 35 years now (this July) and married to her 27 years (as of yesterday): if I had
been controlling or tried to take the reins, she wouldn't have given me a second thought,
and moved on within ten minutes of our having met. She liked me because I gave her all the
space and independence she wanted, and it never would have occurred to me for a second to
be any other way toward her. Her boyfriend prior to me (and this is 1974, don't forget)
helped me out by royally pissing her off by coming round to a "girls' night out" she had
planned with some of her girlfriends. She had asked him to stay away that night, but he
just to come around to check that she was really only with girlfriends. That was the end of
him, and even though I have never met him, it was the biggest favor anyone ever did for me.

The first is attractive IF the man is genuinely nice (not "I'm nice only to women whose pants I'm trying to get into," but genuinely kind and considerate to all) and IF the woman isn't psychologically screwed up.

There are women who, due to abuse in the past, have a low self-image and think they're worthy only of further abuse. When they find a goodhearted man, they believe deep down that they don't deserve someone decent, so they try to drive him away.

Unfortunately, there are also men who think that they can "save" a woman from her demons by being nice to her. It's the old Sir Galahad complex.

Doesn't work. Never has. Many men's lives have been wasted on ungrateful psycho-shrews.

My advice to you, SS, is to think twice and think hard when you are attracted to a woman. If there's abuse in her background or her current life is screwed up, run screaming in the other direction. Don't try to fix her.

Instead, look for women who don't NEED you, women who already have their act together.

Don't become an asshole, because you'll attract either more psycho-shrews or inexperienced ditzes who think that "bad boys" are "exciting."

I wish I could offer you some comfort, though. :hug:

Tangerine, Withywindle, Pharlo, Lydia... they absolutely nailed it. All of them put a lot of time and effort into their posts in an effort to help you and to provide insight. I hope you will take what they wrote to heart. Print this thread out and read and reread it every single day until it "clicks," if need be.

To their advice I would simply add the following thoughts:

Right now you have what I see as a golden opportunity; your ex has placed "responsibility" for her care into someone else's hands (it's actually her own responsibility, although she may have a diminished ability due to her mental illness). Allow her to live with that choice. Move away, even if it's just across town, so that she can't keep running across the street to accost you whenever she wants someone to yell at or to listen to her or fix her problems. Give her the time and the space she's asked for (and to some extent taken for herself), and give yourself a little breathing room, too. Frankly, and to echo what some others have said here, I wouldn't get involved with a guy either if I knew that his bi-polar ex who lives across the street might come barging in on us at any random moment with drawn-out, screaming, irrational drama. Even if it wasn't her fault because she is being challenged by mental illness, and even if he was the nicest guy on the planet. Those are dangerous relationships, and healthy people steer clear of them.

Also, you've written a few posts on here regarding the fact that you are actively seeking a new relationship (going on dating sites, posting that you were hoping that some of the Lounge woman would take an interest in you, etc.) Why do you feel so strongly compelled to get involved in another relationship when you are still deeply entangled in the last (messy) one? You are not giving yourself a fair chance at a new relationship under those circumstances, and it is also not reasonable (and arguably disrespectful) to ask a new girlfriend to simply accept that situation with your ex. You need to make a clean break here before you move on to another relationship. Now is the time to step back from relationships altogether and to spend time alone or with a therapist or trusted (platonic) friend in gentle but honest introspection.

Finally, please spend some time contemplating how your own unquestionably well-intentioned behavior and efforts at "supporting her" and "being nice" to her might actually be having the reverse consequences of reinforcing her unwanted behavior and/or enabling her to in thinking that she is doing "just fine" when she really needs the intervention and supervision of physical and mental health professionals.

Best of luck to you.