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MrsMatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 07:58 PM
Original message
Cat peeing outside litterbox
Last September, we adopted a 7 year old neutered male cat. He's about 20 pounds (probably 3-4 pounds overweight, as he is a LARGE cat). We are unsure if he was in a home with other cats, but his personality profile indicated that he would adapt to just about anything. He seems to have bonded to our 12 year old daughter, likes me, but is indifferent to my husband and 4 year old son.

We also have two other cats, a 16 year old female (Nancy), about 7 pounds and a bit prissy, and a 6 year old neutered male (Stanley), 15 muscular pounds, and a big baby. Nancy hangs out upstairs, where Caesar ventures once in awhile, and Stanley, who used to sleep with my daughter, has allowed Caesar to take his place in my daughter's bed.
Introductions went smoothly, and he seemed to settle in. He doesn't interact much with the other cats, besides the occasional nose greeting.

However, his nickname has become "Mr. Peabody", due to his penchant for peeing outside the litter box. We first noticed it about two-three weeks after we got him. Occasionally defecating outside as well (in random areas of the basement ONLY). Peeing preferences being (in no particular order): scatter rugs, plastic bags, paper bags, book bags, or even just paper on the floor. When he defecates in the litter box, he doesn't bother to cover it - and it stinks to high heaven (and is not particularly firm, but the consistency is more like soft serve ice cream)

This is what we've done:
Feliway diffuser for the first month & a half
Five litter boxes (all in the basement, near each other)
Vet visit (course of antibiotics)
Litter change (to Precious Cat)
New litter box
Access to the outside without a harness (past week) but still not allowed to freely roam

Have not changed:
His food - he eats EVO dry

Any suggestions - We are about at wit's end, and Caesar is on thin ice in our household. If we can't come to a solution, we'll have to return him to the rescue group.

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DeepBlueC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. can you give him his own box away from the others?
Just a thought. Cats can be very territorial about litter boxes and if they are all near each other then maybe your own cats can defend the whole lot of them from one vantage. Mine are spread out just to prevent that because I have seen my kitties try to chase a new cat away from the house boxes. Also ask advice from the rescue group. I really don't know, but they must have some experience with this sort of thing.

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MrsMatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Unfortunately, we have to keep the boxes in the basement
and I doubt that it would make a whole lot of difference - when we first got him, we kept him on the sun porch with his box, and he peed on the furniture anyway. But, it's an idea - maybe to move it further away from the others.

Thanks!
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latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Cat Attract" litter worked pretty well
for our dearly departed Loki. He used to pee all over the wooden floors- nearly impossible to remove the smell.

It has some kind of herb in it that they like. Real expensive, though.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Precious cat is cat attract litter. Sounds like the poster is
already using it.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. My brother gave me some litter that didn't clump very well. It stank too.
My big male cat, Monster, started doing #2 outside the litter box to show his unhappiness. If your cat doesn't know enough to cover his business with more sand perhaps he hates the smell to. I changed litters to stuff that I knew would clump well and my problem is solved. It was a smell thing.
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onestepforward Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. I had that problem too.
I have 3 and had the same problem with one. I had read where you should have 1 litter box per cat plus one. You're already doing that. We do have ours spread out with 2 together upstairs and 2 together downstairs. We also use fragrance-free Arm & Hammer cat liter. Our cat favored a corner of our house and I put foil over that area to detour him. For me, all of the above fixed the problem. I know it is a very frustrating problem and I wish you the best on finding a solution.
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DeepBlueC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
6. Do you use unscented litter?
Lots of cats find the scented stuff repugnant. To them it's just a chemical assault. I sympathize as I have had that problem with a couple of cats over the years and I learned eventually just who was the boss of me. Much psychologizing, trial and error etc. Pain in the ass.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Have you tried doing a big litter box with shredded newspaper in it?
We have two big cats--both just over 20 lbs, and I have to put plastic garbage bags under the litter
box because sometimes they get positioned where the pee goes outside the box.

Maybe Caesar needs a bigger box with something other than cat litter?
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Born_A_Truman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. Have him checked by the vet for UTI
I would start there.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. More vet visits, bigger box, time.
I've had a lot of cats, and most of them have peed outside the box at times. The worst was Minnie--a beautiful but neurotic and overweight beast. When she lived in a house with three other cats, she stopped using the litter box, and nothing helped. I moved into an apartment with just her, and still she did it. Ruined a very cheap and ugly couch that way. I finally took her to the vet when I noticed her peeing clear, odorless liquid. She got antibiotics and some other treatment, special food, and instructions to lose weight. She lost too much weight and went into fatty liver syndrome, requiring almost two months of forcefeeding to recover. After she recovered, she used the box faithfully. Except that in the mean time I had gotten her a bigger box, because at 20lbs she had trouble using the smaller one. The new box also had lower sides. Getting a second cat never upset her.

So, it was either the box or her health or her weight or a combination of those. Given that in the house the box never changed, I think us gaining two more cats upset her, but I think her weight gain also made it harder to use the box without positioning herself over the other cats' business. Plus, I think her weight was partly the result and cause of some health issues.

Bottom line, she was not using the box because she was miserable. It wasn't one solution, it was several, and I had to improve her comfort level with a bigger box, diet, weight loss, and medical treatment, and that eventually worked.

If you know much about his prior history, see what's changed. Has he gained weight? Are you feeding him the right food? I tried EVO with my cats and they weren't happy with it. I use Halo now. IIRC, EVO is high in protein, and with your kitty's weight (no matter his size, that's overweight for a cat), he may be having kidney problems. Maybe not enough to show, but enough to make him uncomfortable, and that combined with less than perfect social conditions (maybe), he's just unhappy and not worried about tidiness or rules. High protein would make that worse. Just imagine yourself in that shape--maybe a bit of pain, inability to get comfortable, overwhelmed by emotional changes... Eventually you get less tidy. Housekeeping slips. Same with a cat.

Don't worry about him bonding more with the females than the males. He probably was alpha cat before. Men aren't a threat, but they aren't who he bonds with. If he's not being aggressive to them, they probably aren't a problem for him, though the change in his status may contribute to his box habits.

I've had a lot of cats, and only one I couldn't box train. She was a feral my kids rescued, along with her kittens. Even with her own room and box, she wouldn't use the box. I think for her it was misery over not being outside. The box smelled like captivity to her. That doesn't sound like the issue with yours. We never could train her, though we only kept her a couple of months.

So in short I'd get another vet check, put him on a diet, make sure his box and litter type is comfortable with him, and maybe worry about the food. Don't isolate him and don't keep changing his rules. It doesn't sound the other cats are a problem. And give him time. You can also try polluting the spots he uses. My vet recommended a slight bleach mixture to keep him away, others have recommended bitter herbs. Make the other spots unpleasant for him, make the litter box more pleasant.

Lots of words. Maybe some of them will help.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. My cat peed and pooped on my bed and clothes.
Edited on Tue May-19-09 11:27 PM by LisaL
Took him to the vet. He had a course of antibiotics and peed on my clothes right after the course was done. So obviously antibiotics did nothing for him. I bought cat attract litter (I don't like the way it clumps) and he hasn't done it since (1 month). However it sounds like you are already using it? I also used feliway diffuser. It's supposed to calm the cats and reduce markings. But you tried that already.
You might have to take him back to the vet to see if they can give you some more ideas. Did the vet do a urinalysis?
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marzipanni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
12. Find out if EVO dry is high in Ash
This may be causing Caesar to have crystals in his ureters, which can be narrower in neutered males. My old cat peed in the bathtub and had pink (bloody) urine. That was when I took him to the vet and was told to give him low ash dry food. I thought Mr. Ticket was quite smart to pee on a white surface to show me that he had a problem, and considerate to pee where it could be flushed away!
This is interesting, after what you said about Caeser's poop-
http://www.epinions.com/review/Innova_Evo_Cat_Kitten_Food_Dry_6_6lb_Bag/content_443917176452

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Creena Donating Member (501 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. Links
Edited on Wed May-20-09 01:19 AM by Creena
Edit: I just noticed the litterboxes need to stay in the basement, so spreading them out won't work.

Here are some links that go into more detail and might give you some ideas:

Seven Litterbox Habits of Highly Effect Cat Owners
Doctor, My Cat Pees Everywhere - What Am I To Do?
Litterbox Rules
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MrsMatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
14. Wow! thanks for all the suggestions
We really want to keep Caesar as part of our family, so I'm willing to try just about anything.

I'll get another appointment for him at the vet's!

Thanks so much.
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