hypothetical: what is an affair.

does emotional intimacy without physical contact still qualify as infidelity? And is one without the other even possible, or will it inevitably become physical despite the best intentions of the parties involved? Sorry for the rather vague description, but maybe you get the idea.

With or without the physical contact, it is seeking comfort from a regular alternate partner. The sex is more of a byproduct - the cheating is the divergence of emotional intimacy.

That differs completely from infidelity, or just getting some nookie on the side without emotions involved.

as for the physical it can be a by product of the intamcy or the driving force.

It is possible to have great "emotional intimacy"
with someone without having an "affair".

Do you consider emotionally close relationships
"affairs" only if they are between opposite genders?

How about a woman being emotionally close to another
woman. How about if one of the is a lesbian?

Define "emotional intimacy".

your heart and soul with someone other than your SO while having a longing desire to be with that person.

but I get your point.

If "having a longing SEXUAL desire to be with that person"
is what you mean.

in other words it goes beyond "just friends"

it's probably OK.

and by no one else. I maintain emotionally intimate relationships with people I've known far longer than I've known my husband. He doesn't object. They don't object. Why should you?

as for the physical it can be a by product of the intamcy or the driving force.

strictly physical one.

the hopes and dreams he won't share with me, either way my heart would be broken. :(

and a close friendship.

I think it goes over the line if you would not tell your SO about it. That's my line, and the question I ask myself when things are confusing.

the nipple makes its first appearance.

a lot of this hooey about "emotional affairs" is to crush friendships between men and women and to keep us back in the dark ages and make us afraid to associate w. the opposite sex -- esp. the hooey about "emotional affairs" at work

if my hubby is flirting w. some co-worker, c'mon, that is not an affair and i don't feel like getting exercised over stuff like that

do you really, inevitably, get physical with everyone you care deeply for emotionally? REALLY? in that case, hope you don't own a dog (kidding)

don't angst or be guilt ridden until you've done something to be guilt ridden about, it's just a waste of everybody's time and energy IMHO

apparently some people don't have deep emotions for their friends, but i don't understand those people, they REALLY don't have deep emotions for a person unless the chance of sex is there? really? honestly? that's kind of...troubling, is all i can say for that!

I would rather my husband pick up a hooker, than have that close emotional bond that only he and I are suppose to share.

Would you be upset if he cried in front
of a female co-worker?

What would breaking your "emotional bond" entail?

What I'm talking about is the sharing of your deepest thoughts, wants, desires that you only share with that one person you know won't judge you. The sharing of personal things that you just don't do with other people. The sharing of that special look he has for you that you thought was only yours. The special grin and head shake he makes to you when you know exactly what he's thinking as he listens to someone go on and on about something you know he doesn't care about at all. I can't go into to much detail without letting some of our own business out there, but anyone who has been married for a long time knows those things that the two of you keep dear to your heart, and how much it would hurt if you knew he was sharing those things with someone else.

We are both very open people and have
been EXTREMELY fortunate in our upbringing.

We have no deep dark secrets with each other.

He laughs and smiles with other people all
the time.

Edit:

If he met another person (male or female)
and said that he wanted to live with them,
or loved them, I would consider that grounds
for termination....

I am glad you're EXTREMELY fortunate, but don't make my post into something that it is not. I was actually talking about the happy moments we share, personal things we share, not tragic past things. Not once did I say I would be upset if my husband laughed and smiled with someone else. I don't know if you are trying to start an argument or just like to project things that aren't there, but either way your post to me has nothing to do with my post.

Whatever, please don't take anything I say as
a personal attack.

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm trying
to help the OP to define "emotional intimacy".

If my husband relayed sexual information about
us to ANYONE else, I would be furious...

Where is it?

90% of the time that I hear people complaining about "emotional intimacy", the underlying argument turns out to be that the complainer is simply feeling excluded or is jealous of a close friendship that someone has with someone else.

If I, as a man, told you that I have a very close friend who often discuss very personal things with, things that I'm sometimes embarrassed to discuss even with my wife...heck, sometimes things pertaining to my wife, would you consider it an "emotionally intimate" relationship if I confessed that he's also a guy, that we spend most of our guy-time playing video games, and that I've never even thought about him that way? What if I corrected myself and told you that he was actually an attractive woman, but that we still spend most of our time playing video games and that that I've never thought about her that way? What if I told you the truth...that he's a guy, that I'm bi, that the thought has crossed my mind, but that it would never happen because I'm not really interested and he's straight anyway?

I dislike the term "emotional intimacy" simply because the only difference between "emotional intimacy" and "close friends" is the territorialism and jealousy of the other spouse.

Can you tell that I've had this argument before?

Hopefully NOT with your spouse!

She decided that I needed to ditch my female friends because I was too "emotionally intimate" with a few of them. She was paranoid that I was going to sleep with one of them.

I'm a very low-stress person, and decided that love alone wasn't a good enough reason to subject myself to what would clearly be decades of territorialistic stress. I broke it off shortly after the argument, and am today married to someone much more compatible with my perspectives on life, stress, and friendship.

And I still have very close relationships with a couple of college friends of the opposite sex, including one who I love like a sister. In 15 years, I've never tried anything with her.

But my closest friend is really a straight guy who would probably punch me if I tried anything (more out of irritation that I'd do that to my wife, than out of anti-gayness).

True friends.

:hi:

Nothing is inevitable.

I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

than a mere physical fling. To me it would be very heart breaking and a greater betrayal. :cry:

If one truly loved their sexual partner, they would not cheat. If someone did cheat, there are probably individual reasons for doing so - albeit some of those would be more legitimate than others (comparatively speaking; it's better to be ethical and go through communication and other channels instead of sleazing around behind another person's back. No puns intended.)

No, emotional intimacy does not always lead to sex, nor does sex necessarily lead to emotional intimacy. I know plenty of married/committed couples who wish one or the other were true in their marriages, but it's just not that simple, is it?

We have been best friends for 6+ years. And we are very close emotionally. I've dated some women who couldn't handle us being close friends and I've had to deal with friends and family asking if we had gotten together yet. Some people really can't comprehend that we can be as close as we are and not be sexual or romantic.

We've been mistaken for a couple by strangers and I have to tell women I date if they can't deal with it then hit the road. I don't think the emotional intimacy we share counts as infidelity even though I date and she's married. I understand the question though because I share things with her I don't share with friends, families or lovers. There is difference between emotional intimacy and cheating-(if you're writing love notes and poetry to a person, you're cheating sex or not.)

Though in my lady friend's case it's because she's a big flirt. Her BF likes to razz us about it a lot, in good humor of course.

Her husband handles it well, he jokes about us too. It's funny because he's basically the complete opposite of her and we've essentially male and female versions of each other.

Her big thing now is since she's married, I have to get married too. So she's always shoving me towards women she meets. (Whither I like them or not.) Direct quote, "Choosing a wife or girlfriend maybe too important of decision to leave to you alone." :rofl:

I'm a shy introvert, she's an extrovert party animal.

I'm Spock-like Mr. Logic, she's Miss touchy-feely.

I'm OCD, she's "oh, who cares?".

I have my head in the clouds, she likes to keep things down-to-earth

I'm developmentally disabled (Asperger's Syndrome), she's physically disabled (paraplegic from Shaken Baby Syndrome).

:rofl:

We met at a mutual friend's party and hit it off immediately. We ended up hooking up for about 3 weeks but then lost interest. The thing was we were actually very confused because we had no idea why felt so strongly about each other but didn't want to be romantic. We laugh about it now, I say "It was like dating me, with tits." and she says "If we had continued dating all we would do is fight and fuck and we wouldn't last six months."

It's actually eerie sometimes, we finish each other's sentence and share personal ticks and OCD behaviors. We both love comic books and sci-fi, had shitty childhoods and are tattoo-freaks. We'll argue for hours and not be mad at each other and both have a black sense of humor.

It's very weird and I do love her and she loves me. I can't really classify it except I know I'll be BFF with her when we're both old and gray. Before I met her I wouldn't have believed that a non-related man and woman could share such a strong platonic bond.

It rocks having a best friend.

Just recently the motor that raises and lowers the seat of her electric wheelchair stopped working and she's always bouncing ideas off of me for what to do about it. The place where she got her wheelchair claimed that Minnesota State Medical Assistance didn't cover wheelchair repairs. I smelled BS and suggested she call her county case worker and get her take on this. Her worker thought the same thing, it smells like BS and the repair should be covered. So I've been stuck in that little mess.

This is the same friend that I have mentioned in various places who was raped a few months ago, so I've been being there for her for that since then. :cry:

Part the first, I'd say no - it's a signal that the main relationship might be in trouble but it might not. Part the second, the inevitability, I'd say no again. It is always a choice, always and I speak from experience. What is true is that the consequences of acting on the impulse can be life-changing if not for the hypothetical poster, then for the person of whom s/he speaks. Sometimes the best way to show love is to not let the loved one know about one's feelings, especially if one of the persons in question is married. I mean, people kill over this sort of thing. Just my thoughts.

An affair is not an affair until there is physical intimacy. Until then, you are simply in a poor or unhappy relationship and fleshing out your options.

It might be shitty and dishonest, but it's not an affair.

I disagree. Technically that may be true, but I think it is a little deeper than that.

... and distress in our relationships. Or should I say, "relationship experts" have a compulsion to do so. We have created a dehumanizing concept of love where it's not enough to have the love of a person. It's not enough to have the physical fidelity of a person. It's not enough to have the support of a person. It is not enough to have the rest of our life with a person. We have to have their thoughts too. It's a ridiculous paradigm.

People are, above all, human beings. It is perfectly natural to have feelings for someone else. There is little that can be done to stop it. Just because we are in a marriage or relationship does not mean that we cease to be human beings. And, just because we might have an infatuation with someone else does not mean that we do not love our partner. All concepts like "emotional affairs" do is work to create a constant sense of insecurity and breeds unnecessary and unwarranted conflict.

about longing to be with the other person, and wanting to share yourself (emotionally and physically), and hiding it from your SO, then that crosses a line.

I don't really know where it started, but for some reason in our culture romantic love has to be "perfect". We're told that having love just is not enough, we have to possess our partners. So what, if they are physically faithful? We have to know if they've even thought about someone else.

That's what revealing what you are "hiding" amounts to. It's not a revelation of anything real. It would be revealing thoughts and emotions. Nothing that can actually be stopped. And, it serves no purpose but to create animosity and distrust between the partners.

If you are in an "emotional affair" and you feel uncomfortable about it, or you think it is effecting your relationship, then you need to distance yourself from it. But, we do not need to dream up new forms of cheating to be concerned about, or become the thought police of our partners.

But if you feel that way about someone other than your SO, then I think the SO has a right to know it. It disrupts a relationship and it will eventually (I believe) lead to the physical. Once you give yourself permission to be dishonest about feelings, etc., you give yourself permission to do other things eventually.

If I knew my husband secretly was really loving someone else, even if it isn't physical, I would feel as betrayed as if it were physical. Maybe he wouldn't be able to help his feelings, but I, as his wife, have a right to know that our relationship isn't what I believe it to be. It only creates animosity when the other person finds out. The same as if it were physical.

Anyway, we don't see this the same way and probably won't. I guess it is a good thing we aren't in a relationship together! :P

which means you probably feel guilty over it...then maybe it is.

If you feel uncomfortable telling your partner about it...it's an affair.

the other person has the partner.

You can have an affair with your husband or wife - just take them on a trip to a cabin - you just had an affair.

HOWEVER, what I think you are talking about is betrayal. This happens when one side violates the written or unwritten contract between husband and wife (or wife and wife, gf and gf, bf anf gf, bf and...shit you get the picture)

If you are allowed to mess around with other women, its not cheating and its not betrayal.

If you are not allowed to have sex, but can flirt with other women, its not cheating.

However, if its understood you aren't supposed to, it is.

:shrug:

If no, it's got the same dynamics as an affair. Parenthood and social diseases aside, the fallout's the same.

However, I know of people who have this without it being an affair. I had two professional partners about ten years ago, a man and a woman, who had worked together for 25 years. He was divorced (from her best friend) and remarried, she was still married. These two were extremely close emotionally and had the kind of love for each other that seemed more like siblings than purely business partners. She's one of my role models in life.

My parents had very close relationships with a few couples and people in their life (my father died 8 years ago). I call them aunts and uncles, and consider their children my cousins.

In both of these cases, the answers can be summed up as follows: all of these people were able to be open about their feelings.

On edit: You'll notice I'm talking about married people, and people with long-term relationships (my parents were together for 45 years including dating). I think the rules change with shorter term relationships, but I can't describe why or how, but I think there might be a fallacy in treating a 1-2 year romantic relationship like a marriage.