From a nurse: I Hate Some Doctors!

Sorry to rant away from politics but I just got off work and I had this confrontation with an asshole doctor about a patient. I think he has a personal problem with me as he always trys to belittle me and put me down in front of other people. The other nurses say he is intimidated by me. I'm just sick of it!!!! AAARRRGGHHH!:mad: :grr:
on edit: "some" doctors. They aren't all bad.

I worked for several different doctors over a 25-year span, and they are also mostly big cheapskates!

for every nurse who has had problems with some asshole doctor, I'd rival Bill Gates. Nurses are vastly underrated by doctors, probably out of sheer jealousy and protectionism of their God-Like status.

Bleh

They're idiots too.

and somehow they are a different breed.

I did my doctorate in a vet school. Vet students there were so full of themselves that there wasn't room for anyhting else. Pompous little twits that always talked about how they were going to be millionaires in 5 years.

who took his fetal pig jar and uncorked it.
As soon as we was able
He got it up on the table
and removing his pants he then porked it.

I have encountered at my university seem to be young women--the ones who are crazy about animals. They are very bright, very compassionate--most are vegetarians, environmentalists and/ or Buddhists etc., you know the type. My hope when I meet them is they stay that way!

There are a lot of pre-law students who are worse than attorneys, believe it or not.

In 7 years of being a nurse I've hung up on him twice on the phone after he belittled me and all the nurses clap because I'm not usually confrontational. Some of the nurses also think I must remind him of someone in his past that he had issues with. Alot of people don't like him. He only seems to pick on a few nurses. Tonight, he wrote an order for a central line to be placed by a surgeon on-call who is more boisterous than he is (he's a family physician). Then he left. Well, the surgeon asked why he wrote the order and ran!!!! In otherwords, he was calling the doctor who gave me trouble a Chickenshit! We all thought it was really funny.

you learn that doctors aren't "all that." In fact, my opinion of doctors as a group is pretty low.

that get you well. A great nurse, and I've known many, are gold.

With my husband's recent illness, he was turned over to another doctor in the hospital who was a flaming asshole. He was rude to the nurse--always sets my alarms off--and rude to my husband; doctor said he had the "coffee jitters." We can only hope it was just coffee.

We asked for another doctor, and got one, in large part to his WONDERFUL nurse, Mindy (bows in general direction of Desert Samaritan hospital). Even after Drs. treatment of her, she took care of my husband with empathy, respect, and a fantastic sense of humor. She really helped us get through and emotionally and physically exhausting day.

Nurses are vastly underappreciated as a whole, except by those of us who have known many through treatment. Reach over, pat yourself on the back for me, you deserve it!

:toast:

I hate middle of the night phone calls from people who stub their toe and think its an emergency. One night, while my wife was out of town some wacky lady called and said her head hurt. I told her over and over I wasn't a doctor but she kept going on and on. I finally asked her, "Is it bleeding? Is a bone sticking out? Has any limbs fallen off?" she said, "no" and I told her she's fine. She asked, "what should I do?" I said, "go to the emergency room." She said, "they'll charge me." I then told her, "You keep calling me and I'm gonna charge you" She stopped calling.

Welcome to DU, Governor Dean! ;-)

....I was the unit secretary and once when we were full and short of nurses...this neurologist had me come assist while he tried to give a woman a spinal tap...she was a huge woman and was restrained...but thrashin' around anyway...so he's cussin' at me and the nurse who was a tiny woman...I'm 5'1'' and she was shorter than me....I looked at him and told him...look this isn't even in my job description nor was I qualified to even be in there... and walked out...I was only gettin' paid 3.35hr...as that was minimum wage at the time...wasn't about to take that kind of abuse from him!! I had a lot of issues with a couple nurses in there too though...but it was because they seemed soooo cold hearted as they would bitch about patients on medicaid and how the hospital was never gonna get paid for all the trouble these patients put 'em through....like somehow they wouldn't get paid their salaries regardless...*sigh* :(

A lot of the doctors I worked with were sweet and normal, but some were awful jerks. The worst was a neurologist who came on the floor and took every chart on a rolling cart while he was there on his rounds. No one was allowed to touch them when he was around. Then, no one was allowed to talk while he did his charting. His behavior was at least as bizarre as some of his patients.

they spend the first 1/3 of their lives doing nothing but studying. They never learn social skills or develop the ability to interact with people normally.

I'm in the middle of that studying, and I'd like to think I've turned out ok! :-)

of course I jest; welcome to the DU. :7

thanks ;-)

Not just nurses. The worse are the residents. . .most hospitals brace themselves for the incoming residents who think they're hot shots and drive everyone nuts with their arrogance and foul ups. People who become doctors often have a "I am god" complex and even when they screw up and have to be rescured by nurses and other staff they don't realize they have been bailed out. Yes, in my experience with very ill relatives, it isn't the doctors who are around for the care and contact with the patient. They generally breeze in for rounds and are not seen again till the next rounds. It's the dedicated care of nurses from hour to hour that gets people who are very ill through one crisis after another.

The best thing to do is to stay well and stay away from doctors! :evilgrin:

most new doctors tone down after a couple years or so but he has never changed. I'm glad you brought that up. I'm feeling better today, thanks everyone for all the discussion! I didn't add lastnight that this doctor has been through 5 offices nurses in his 7 years of doctoring here. I also volunteered as a first aid nurse today at a Special Olympics event and ran into one of the staff nurses in his office.....I had the chance to vent to her about him and she shared the same view as I. She said they have to alternate being his nurse otherwise nobody would stay there!!! Geesh. You think he would figure out it's him and not the whole rest of the hospital and office.

So are some nurses. Same goes for all people, some are nice, some are assholes.

As far as the medical profession goes, you have people dealing with the worst kind of stress imaginable and that is going to lead to the worst kind of behavior possible under the circumstances when you consider the training that doctors are given. They are taught that their word is law and to have it questioned, particularly by a lowly nurse, is tantamount to treason and to treat it accordingly. I remember when my brother was going through med school , it used to annoy me no end the ridiculous things he used to say his instructors would say about the subject.

Nurses, on the other hand, have most of the day to day interaction with the patient, and can often have more of the practical hands on knowledge regarding medications and treatments that doctors would be wise to tap into. To be fair, many great doctors do. My close friend is a neuro-psych ICU nurse here in Chicago, and in spite of the doctors in her practice having been on television and appearing on commercials for the prestigious hospital that their practice is affiliated with, they are scared shitless of her. They are smart enough to realize that they need her (and nurses like her) just as much as their patients need them.

So keep kicking that doctor's ass! It will either make him a better doctor (which he seems to need) or it will at least get him to eventually leave you along. If he seems intimidated by you, he probably is. That must mean you're a strong woman and really good at your job. Congratulations! :-)

Not to "play doctor" with somebody, but to have their jobs outsourced and maybe devalued, just like the rest of our jobs...

It'll make 'em wake up... their profession shouldn't be stable either. Bring them down back to earth...

My ex has a chronic disease that requires drastic, although simple intervention occasionally. On night I took her to the local rural hospital. A letter from our doctor was posted in her chart outlining what was required.

The nurses called the on-call physician. He showed up, performed a cursory examination, declined to read the letter from our doctor. I turned around and he was gone. The nurses told me he had gone home. I caught up with him in the parking lot.

Without being OVERTLY threatening I backed him up the stairs to the ER and cornered him in the nurse's station. I noticed the 3 nurses watching our "discussion". Two were smiling broadly, the other gave me a thumbs up.

He caved quite easily, ordered the appropriate treatment and scuttled away like a beaten dog. He was a bully, to nurses and patients.

A friend who is a South African trained doctor, believes that North American doctors see too few people and too many test results. They are not provided the people skills, indeed people skills are not given enough weight in the medical school selection process.

Too many doctors have replaced the lollipops in their pockets with standard test result booklets. They view people as an inconvenience in the battle against disease. Medicine would be much easier without all these patients getting in the way.

BTW a simple method to get attention is for an accompanying family member to keep good notes. Note what medical personnel visit, what is said, what tests are ordered. Think of it as potential evidence in a malpractice suit- the doctors do. It has never come to that but it breaks the shell around too many doctors and demands that they view the patient as something other than a case study.

It's sad that this is necessary, but you do what you have to to get your loved ones treated.

Nurses make hospitals work. I have nothing but respect for them, thy do difficult work under trying circumstances and get slagged in many quarters as overpaid union member special interest groups. Next time YOU are in hospital ask yourself how much a nurse is worth- it's probably more that he/she is currently being paid.

Sorry for the lengthy post but it's something I have very strong opinions about.

She said the worst of the worst are doctors who are stoned or drunk on duty.

And their cronies cover for them, and anyone who reports this gets blackballed.

"Peer review" is a joke.

Medical licensing boards are inept, at best.

I had this one doctor I had to call regarding his patient who was a paraplegic from some gunshot wound and she was overdrugged with pain medicine for her pain and needed Narcan, a med to reverse it, because she was too sedated and we couldn't get her awake enough. When I called him, I could swear he was drunk, he screamed at me over the phone and acted like he didn't care and said that's the reason he came to this small midwest town from California was to get away from all of these welfare drugged-out patients and that he never went to med school for this.....he ranted and screamed when I could've done given the Narcan to the patient and had it reversed in seconds. He ordered it reluctantly but not without giving me all his reasons why he didn't go to med school. I swear he was drunk. I couldn't believe how he apathetic and mean he was about this person.

My doctor and my kids pediatrician are great and they are Democrats.

My first oby/gyn was an ass but my new gyne and last oby/gyne are wonderful!!!

There are a lot more software developers I have met who are ruder and more nasty.

When I didn't want to be an engineer, I thought and tried pre-med for a couple of years. Then I realized I had much more fun doctoring with inanimate objects.

I see the same personalities in engineering as I do in the medical field. Enormous egos because they are considered to be "so intelligent". And that intelligence = competence. In most cases, yes, but the rest, no. The ability to communicate and work with people with diverse skills is more important. Something that is lacking in both professions.

When doctors botch up and kill people, how much publicity do you see? But when an engineering product botches and kills people, even as few as the 7 astronauts who died in Columbia last year, everyone seems to know about it....

holyrollerdem, I've met nurses that I wondered to myself if their uniforms covered angels' wings. There is nothing more comforting on this earth than to be cared for by a great nurse, especially when one is dealing with a less-than-compassionate doctor.

I have been under the care of a few bad doctors, too. They piss me off. Why get into a profession that is people-driven when they obviously don't like people to begin with?

I have two wonderful doctors now. I have a naturopath that works with me on my chronic illness issues. He makes me laugh till I cry besides. I also see an MD who has gone out of her way to work with me (how many MD's take it calmly when a patient tells them she'd like to keep the naturopath in the loop?) Her nurse is wonderful as well.

I am a lucky, lucky person to be cared for by such superior health professionals.

Julie

care about now is money, money, money. Medicine is nothing but a business to them, and far too many want nothing to do with those who don't have the money or who are on Medicaid.

They can't even be bothered to volunteer their time for even a few hours a week at a clinic or elsewhere for people who desperately need their knowledge and skills for themselves or a family member but who don't have the money.

And far too many couldn't care less about the tens of thousands who die yearly simply because they don't have insurance.

And far too many couldn't care less that those without insurance or on Medicaid don't get the kind and quality of care they need, whereas the lives of those with money are considered far more important.

And far too many have ruthless, aggressive collection agencies who think nothing of taking what little assets you may have or putting liens on your house, etc., just to get their almighty bucks.

And far too many couldn't care less about the current health care meltdown, whereby too many millions of people don't have insurance or are underinsured or who can't get access to health care due to money issues or the insured who are facing a major catastrophic illness such as cancer and hundreds of thousands in bills, much of which aren't covered by insurance, choosing instead to use their clout to force political attention to the phoney-baloney so-called "malpractice crisis."

And far too many ostracize those doctors who DO care and who ARE trying their best to help people no matter what and to refomr the system.

When did doctors become freepers? No argument that there are some bad apples, just like in any profession, but don't you think this is a little bit extreme? Doctors were once looks upon as gods, and this was no good. Now, they seem to be looked upon by some practically as demons, and frankly, that's just as ridiculous.

Look, there are many, many, many ways to make money that are a lot easier than going into medicine. Medical residents work 80+ hours a week for far less than minimum wage. It's really unfair for you to generalize so harshly about an entire group of people like that.

and admiration when, and ONLY WHEN, they join in the fight for a fairer health care system instead of trying to protect the status quo despite the millions of people who are being directly harmed because of it.

They'll regain my respect and admiration when they quit bankrupting people whose only crime was that they or a family member got sick and they either didn't have insurance or their insurance wasn't enough.

They'll regain my respect and admiration when they start treating people who desperately need it regardless of how much fucking money they have, and when they quit refusing to treat people who are uninsured unless they pay UP FRONT.

They'll regain my respect and admiration when they quit equating the worth of a person's life, and determining with how much money they have, and when they quit basing their treatment on how much money someone has.

They'll regain my respect and admiration when they quit using their enormous clout to whip up lawmakers into a frenzy over the bullshit phoney-baloney "malpractice crisis", and start using it to wake up lawmakers to the need for reform and toward making sure ALL Americans have access to the health care they need without bankrupting them.

They'll regain my respect and admiration when they start trying to do something about the tens of thousands who die yearly as a direct result of being uninsured.

They'll regain my respect and admiration when they quit spreading lies about the how horrible the "socialized medicine" systems are in countries with far more humane and fair health care systems.

They'll regain my respect and admiration when they quit viewing medicine as solely a business and looking on patients as nothing more than cash cows. Doctors could do so much good in changing our inhumane, greedy, broken-down so-called "health-care" system, but THEY AREN'T DOING IT!

I'm sorry, but you are doing a real disservice to the majority of doctors who have devoted their lives to the service of healing. I come from a family of doctors who have spent their ENTIRE professional lives striving to provide top-notch medical services to those who can't pay. And I am getting sick of listening to you pontificate about what jerks doctors are.

I have now said it several times--doctors, like all other people (and maybe moreso) have their share of bad apples. Your incredibly facile, generalized, one-sided view of the matter is offensive to those doctors who do not fit your view. In any case, I'm done talking to you.

and I know you'll follow in their footsteps. But I've seen far too much of medicine and doctors, and experienced too much myself, to believe that mine is a "facile, generalized, and one-sided view." I have friends with cancer who can't get the treatment they need because they don't have enough insurance or money. And like it or not, this is the way an awful lot of people feel about doctors and the medical system, both from personal experience or the experiences of family and friends.

And I live near the Cleveland Clinic, which likes to boast that they provide the best care in the world (and they do, no doubt about it). But walk a couple blocks from the Clinic, and you'll be in a neighborhood whose residents will never be able to set foot inside the Clinic for treatment. If you don't have good insurance, forget it. Cleveland's leaders have castigated it for hardly providing any care to the needy, as it's supposed to do but rarely does.

I'm well aware that there are plenty of caring, decent doctors who are just as frustrated with the system and who are trying their best, in their own little corner of the world, to help people and change the system from within.

In any case, best of luck with your own medical training, I don't think I could handle even one week of a residency or even medical school. You must be very smart and very caring.

I agree with nearly everything you said. I work currently at Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center in NY, which is in a very disadvantaged neighborhood, and have observed many of the things you have noted.

....seems if their calling was truly heartfelt they'd be willing to do pro bono...doubt it though...'cos most now don't even practice...they let their *nurse practioners* see their patients now instead! :evilfrown:

and I concur.

the medical care he desperately needed. Not all doctors are creeps. Our Pediatrician is much loved and respected. Her little patients come before insurance payouts or a patient's ability to pay. :hi:

I'm sorry if i started a rant about the bad ones. I just had to rant about one doctor that totally rubs me the wrong way. Please, I hope everyone doesn't think I don't like all doctors. I have my personal favorites, too! lol

I think we can all agree about that!

Thank you future Dr. sir_captain!! And welcome to DU!:toast:

She was one the few in our class who graduated Summa Cum Laude since our profs don't like to give out A's and got a really high MCAt score. Anyway, she applied to medical school and stated that she wanted to go into family practice. Some of them gave her a hard time about that. They said that someone such as accomplished as herself should not go into such a low paying branch of medicine. I guess that shows the motivation of most people going into medicine.

Doesn't your friend indicate that there are people going into medicine for laudable reasons as well? Of course there are some jerks--lots of people are jerks, as indicated by the membership numbers of the Republican party. But seriously now, I've got to say I'm really surprised when a progressive community starts shitting on doctors. What do we want? More lawyers and I-bankers? Gimme a break.

Anyway, sounds like you have a nice friend. I'm interested in primary care myself.

I'll take those horrible lawyers any day over most doctors. The bad rap lawyers have gotten is, for the most part, very unfair and very undeserved.

Far more lawyers than doctors volunteer their time for pro-bono services, and most lawyers don't go after their clients for money the way doctors do.

Most lawyers I know take clients who they know right off the bat don't have a chance in hell of paying most of their bill, whereas most doctors now won't even let you in the door unless you have insurance and pay your co-payment UP FRONT, or, if you're uninsured, they won't even bother with you at all, no matter what, unless you have 75 bucks UP FUCKING FRONT! Most lawyers don't take the only assets people have or put liens on people's houses or force foreclosures just to finance their country-club lifestyle. And most lawyers are nowhere near as rich as people make them out to be, only the big fish are.

Believe me, I deal with both lawyers and doctors, and I know this.

If you're really going to sit there and try to say that there aren't lawyers who are trying to get rich, well, I have a bridge to sell you. I have nothing against lawyers, mind you; I know plenty of them who are good people and who do good work. Do you have some sort of personal animus against those in medicine? Because that's how it sounds.

Believe me, I work in the medical field, and you're not right about everything.

lawyers who weren't trying to get rich, I know that there damn well are, and there are plenty of not-so-nice lawyers either. But I deal daily with far too many people who can't get the health care they need or who are being sued by doctors for money they don't have when they HAD TO GO TO A DOCTOR, they had no choice.

And we're talking about things like pneumonia and meningitis and accidents with emergency treatments, etc., not elective cosmetic surgery. Most of the doctors only cared about how much money the person has.

about what happened to those people. The docs they dealt with aren't worth the paper their licenses are printed on. But it's not fair to take these examples and generalize about an entire profession. Can you really not see that?

....IS calling more important than the bottom line....I happen to agree with liberalhistorian here about the MAJORITY of doctors...because as far as the technology we've made tremendous strides but still the stats show how even MORE mistakes are bein' made in hospitals these days....BY DOCTORS...and the overall care received in hospitals has become less than it should be too when they should be the best EVER?! :(

as far as the mistakes go, there obviously isn't any excuse. Part of it is being adressed in limiting the number of hours that residents are forced to work each week. It used to be standard practice to work 36 hour shifts but a lot of legislation (I know about some here in NY state, for instance) are helping to limit the shifts so that there are fewer bone tired doctors making important decisions.

As for socialized healthcare, i'm of several minds on it. I certainly don't think it's obviously the right way to go. I was once in Canada with a friend who fell during a hike and split his head open. A mountie happened by us and took us to the ER, where we sat for almost 18 hours, taking turns holding rags on the wound, before a doctor was able to see us. Socialized healthcare does lead to a lot of unnecessary doctor visits.

Another thing is that many countries with socialized health care have very different medical training as well. In a lot of those countries, medical school is free, and then the docs become government employees. In my opinion, considering all of their schooling and the skill requirements of their job, not to mention the long hours, docs in socialized systems are often underpaid.

It would be a real tough sell in this country, where med students are usually several hundred thousands of dollars in debt, and where they don't earn a competitive wage until after nearly 10 years of training, to become government employees earning a comparatively low wage. I'm not saying that the current system shouldn't change--it absolutely has to--but a quick change to a socialized system is not a simple one.

with a three year old with a broken wrist for 12 hours, and I had insurance!
In England, I went to a clinic for an infected tooth, was taken right in (I was in obvious pain and feverish), was treated immediately and sent to the apothocary for FREE meds, all within 30 minutes.
I'll take socialized medicine any day of the week!

you aren't made to feel like you're nothing because you don't have money or insurance, your health needs and your life are considered just as important!

That's one of the things that really makes me nuts about our so-called "health care" system, your treatment, both physical and emotional, and the worth of your life, is often based on how much money or insurance you have. The first thing you're asked, even if you're bleeding to death in an emergency room, is what insurance you have.

For many medical professionals, it's a totally unconscious reaction, they don't even realize that that's what they're doing because it's so ingrained.

My favorite doctor told me once that he almost just walked out of a hospital and quit because of the way some of his cancer patients were being viewed and treated, and the refusal of care for some of them due to money issues. He said he couldn't look the husbands, kids, and family members in the eye and tell them their wife/mother/sister/mother's life wasn't worth saving because they didn't have money or insurance or even enough insurance or the right kind. He was sick to death of the focus only being on how much money or insurance someone had, that was the overriding, sole concern of hospitals and many of the doctors and staff (certainly not all, mind you, but enough).

But he realized if he quit he couldn't try to make things better for his patients and others one step at a time, and be their advocates, which was what he and his like-minded colleagues were trying to do. Needless to say, this doctor NEVER lacked for patients, lol!

I come from a family of doctors and I was a paralegal. Both professions have their share of assholes and both suffer from generalities made by people who want to tar everybody with the same brush. The large majority of doctors and lawyers I have met are people who are doing the best they can under sometimes trying circumstances.

Most doctors do pro bono work. The amount that doctors/hospitals bill and the amount they collect is very different. Their costs and how much they collect is often very differnet. That's why hospitals are going out of business and why when you go to a doctor you have very little choice but to go to a large group practice of doctors who don't have the chance to spend much time with each patient because they get paid by the number of patients they see.

but issues he has with himself. This buttwipe wants nothing more than to see that he gets to you; do NOT give him the satisfaction.

I've seen good and bad docs, I deal with lots of residents and interns too. Some are great, some are jerks. I have learned to ALWAYS advocate for the patient and you'll come away feeling okay. If they try to step on me personally, I let them know in no uncertain terms that I'm not taking any shit from them.

The units I've worked on where that stuff happens most are the high stress places like ICU's, OR, PACU and the like. Sometimes they just are stressed and looking for someone to blame.

You know you do your best, hang on to that.

I have a friend who says that MD stands for manic depressive, becuase anyone who would set themselves up for the abuse of med school, residency, and fellowships has to be masochistic and just "ain't right". That's why I became a nurse and not a doc. Who cares about the money, I wanted a life!

I don't think I could handle even two days of medical school, let alone residency.

Most residency programs have a staff shrink on hand just for the residents. The doc I work for once told me that if med students/residents don't have a nervous breakdown at some point, there's probably something wrong with them.

90% of the work is done by nurses. You get to deal with the good patients who make your life easy and the bad ones who make your life a living hell. And either way, you have to be on top form all the time.

Then the Doc comes in. Hasn't seen what you've seen. Gets a lot more respect (and a lot more money). You do all the work and he gets all the cash.

I have a medical condition that means I end up in the ER quite a bit more than most people. I've learned to listen to the nurses, not the DRs. Their advice is usually better and more direct. And they seem more interested in explaining how I can help myself.

I'm certain there are Drs who are wonderful and nurses who should be shot on sight. But I've seen little of either of those.


You're a nurse? Your salary sucks. You deserve better. Maybe that Doc might not seem so bad if you made enough money to deal with him.

You say your sorry to get away from politics, but girlbabe, this is politics. You deserve better.


Khash.

and I agree that nursing care is the absolutely most important aspect of a patient's experience. Lord knows I'd much rather have a nice nurse and a crabby doctor than the other way around. I have all the respect in the world for nursing.

But to say that doctors don't do any work is just nonsense. I know very few people who work harder than medical residents (and as I mentioned before, they're doing it for less than minimum wage.) Try living in another person's shoes before you cast aspersions.

The care is not given by just one. It can't be done. Especially with holistic medicine. You have to have respiratory therapists, physical therapists, occupational therapists, dieticians, social workers, EMTs, paramedics, nursing assistants, pharmacists, etc. Doctors put in many many hours. That is a fact. I can appreciate that. The thing I don't like about being a nurse is that the nurse has to COORDINATE all of this care on every patient they have. It is very overwhelming sometimes. It seems the doctor and the nurse have to know it all whereas the rest of the staff only need to take care of and be responsible for a part of the care. Then it's the nurse who has to be the all-seeing eye for the doctor who isn't there at all times. If anything escapes the nurse's eye, then it's an incredible burden to know you might not see something you need to tell the doctor. Then I believe the doctor becomes so overwhelmed at all the information being thrown his way that he/she has to have incredibly strong stamina in order to process the info and spew out orders very quickly. I can see it from the doctors.

However, everyone is individual and some cannot do it as well, some are excellent. I think some nurses don't always cut to the chase or give pertinent information regarding their request and the doctors get tired of trying to hash out what it is exactly that is being asked of them. I have one doctor who just asks me what I want and why and then he just says "okay". Makes me feel good that he trusts me this much but sometimes I feel jittery because the doctor allows me to mandate whatever I'm asking for!!! Geesh. I feel like if I'm wrong then it might look bad on him and he won't trust me like he does. It's like I'm just calling him to get an okay. He's a competent doctor but I think he's become almost too comfortable since he started. So I don't ask for something unless I'm dead-on sure about things or I'll just tell him I have no idea what else to do and ask if he has any solutions?

I have seen enough ERs to know that nurses are where it's at. A bad nurse is 100 times worse than a bad doc (I've encountered 2 in numerous ER and hospital stays), and the best doctor can't come close to a great nurse, of whom I've known dozens.

The reason nurses aren't paid what they are truly worth is that then we couldn't afford them. It's a truly gotta-do-it-for-a-higher- reason profession.

God bless all of you nurses. You have truly had a tremendously positive impact in my life.

This area in the midwest non-union supporting Republican Indiana would NEVER allow nurses to get a union!!! Not even the other nurses are interested. One mention and you get a really snub-nosed look. My hospital pays the lowest in the area (but closest to my home so I stay). Smaller towns even pay higher. The catch that makes me stay is better staffing. I worked agency for awhile on the side and I've seen what understaffing is and I will not be a nurse if I have to work understaffed and not give the correct care. The big money is not worth my license OR my conscience.

And while I appreciate the doctors and all they did for me, I have to say that most of the people I remember fondly from each hospital are the nurses. Years after one surgery I even went back to visit some of them, I loved them so much. But I'm gonna have to get used to doctors again, since I want to work (non-medical) in hospitals.

these days. They just don't have the time to spend with patients that they should and would like to.

I worked at a major research university and it was typical for Internal Med Grand Rounds to last from 6:30 am to about 11:30 -12:00, sometimes 1:pm. There just were that many people to get through. And of course it only appeared to the patient that they saw the doc only 5 minutes every day.

Meanwhile in the clinic, managed care and HMOs give them certain quotas that they must meet, quarterly, monthly in order to get paid. That can break out to seeing 8-9 people/hour. Eventhough the schedule book only has room for 4 people/hour. You sometimes purposefully overbook the doc because someone will have to cancel or won't show up, so... NEXT!

Some docs are jerks yes, and I say if you can't work with a doc, for whatever reason, find someone else. There certainly is someone out there willing to work with you.

I should be starting my clinicals this Fall, so I know what to expect. :)

My husband is very pro-active in his department and has the most credentials (an RRT plus NRP and PALS instructor, pedi/nicu specialist, initiates studies, and registered polysomnographic tech as well). He's one of the few on the respiratory staff the NICU will trust to intubate if the nurse practitioner isn't available quickly, so he's really good in his field, right? I don't know how many times, he has come home and told me about some stupid thing done by a resident or some various other shabby treatment. The mistake of choice seems to be mistakes on blood gases. He can get a blood gas really fast and well, but frequently a resident wants to "practice" so he's not called. Then after some poor baby is hacked up in the process, then they call him to come in and finally do it right. :grr:

There are decent doctors and there are assholes. The problem is that there is no one to rein in the assholes. They can be impossible to deal with and there is no one to tell them the shape up and behave.

And for all of you good souls with family members who are physicians, well, just because they are well behaved at home doesn't mean they are even decent with the ancillary workers at the hospital. You might be shocked if you could be a fly on the wall observing your family member reaming out a nurse because she/he couldn't do the impossible and give undivided attention to 12 patients at a time. Of course it would be more productive to ream out the administration of the hospital, but it must be more fun to scream at someone who can't scream back because they sure do a lot of it.

Thank heavens I don't have to deal with too many of them in the lab. But, I went to a mandatory customer service workshop last week and most of the nursing staff in attendance were up in arms about the demeaning treatment by the physicians. And I mean to the point that some of the Rn's were talking about getting out of profession.

I know how much I don't know. The scariest health care people in the world, don't know how much they don't know. Or, won't admit it.

Hang in there, friend.

I have been a med student, intern, resident. I have been a teacher of med students, interns, and residents. I have worked in the public and private sectors, in teaching hospitals and the private practice world.

Some of the generalizations on this thread are too crude. All doctors are not demons, all nurses are not saints. There are good and bad in every field. There are hot shot know it all residents, and there are residents who have been true heroes to me when I was a student, worthy of admiration and emulation. There are nurses who are indeed underpaid saints, but there are also some real battle axes (particularly in some teaching hospitals) who derive petty joy from busting the balls of green residents or interns not for any good cause but just because they are "senior" to these docs in their little world. I have worked with, trained, supervised, been trained by, been supervised by attending physicians, residents, interns who have been excellent in their knowledge, skills and character. I have also had these experiences and relationships with those of questionable knowledge/character, much fewer in number. I have worked with nurses who have taught me about as much as any physician, but also with some who have endangered patients through carelessness or lack of knowledge.

I have a generally high opinion of those in both groups.

I work in an operating room setting, noted in American popular culture for imperious, demanding doctors. I really find the huge majority of the physicians I work with to be quite agreeable, and most of the nurses as well. There are always exceptions. As I would expect to be true if I was a software engineer working in an office cubicle.

The issue of our wacky American system of medical reimbursement is a separate one from the character and motives of physicians as a whole. I don't know that the "status quo" is particularly stable, I suspect the political/economic landscape of American medicine will be substantially changed if not unrecognizable 10-15 yrs. from now or even 5 years from now. Saying all doctors are jerks if they don't immediately act to dismantle our admittedly screwed up and patchwork system is akin to me saying that all plaintiff trial lawyers are jerks if they don't immediately call for the end of the system of payment contingent on payout and turning down valid cases because the amount of money to be recovered is just too small to be "worth their trouble". I just don't think it's fair to impugn a whole group of people based on this.

Sir_captain, good luck in your studies.

long way to go... :-)

....as I see it...this should be a service regulated by the gov't as it's already been proven that privatizing the industry has been a disaster all the way around...as I stated in my post above to sir_captain....more mistakes are bein' made now than ever and the overall care received in many hospitals is lacking instead of it bein' the best it's ever been in the history of medicene.

with government payor service (NHS) available to all but also some private incentive care available also.

I spent most of my career as a salaried physician with the U.S. Gov't delivering "socialized" gov't. care. The system and care were okay. There were definitely advantages to that system over the private system I am in now, but also definitely advantages to the private system over that.

While there are certainly a lot of errors made in U.S. medicine, do you have any data to back up that there are "more made now than ever before", implying that you have some basis for comparison? I can certainly say that there were quite a lot of errors made in the government system I worked in also, and they were not always identified or addressed.

The most prominent recent data on the topic is the Institute of Medicine's report from 1999. Basically IOM's position is that the majority of the preventable errors were "systems problems" and not necessarily individual malfeasance. (The way our court system deals with it). I do not believe that they prescribed socialized medicine as a cure for medical error. There was recognition that our system of medical litigation discourages physicians from self-identifying errors, and at least some interest was expressed in a "no-fault" type of insurance where doctors would presumably be more likely to report error without sacrificing their career and finances on the pyre of malpractice court. There is a definite disincentive to a lot of these disclosures under our current system of malpractice.

I'm not exonerating doctors for being dishonest here, or saying people shouldn't be allowed to sue. But in the punitive world of medical malpractice all complications and/or error are ascribed to individual wrongdoing/evil. It's not a system conducive to the best communications between doctors and patients. In otherwords, in some cases, doctors have to overcome a natural instinct for self preservation to be fully honest with their patients. If the system didn't set up a huge internal conflict like this, honesty and communications would be better.

The arguments in favor of a socialized type system have much more to do with universal access and affordability. I think the "medical errors" argument is a poor one to use for that particular debate.

....get NONE or a Charity Hospital which is so pathetic it's as if they got no care either...that's my experience with our charity system....that's our 3 tier system in the US.

...here's a more current analysis of the numbers on malpractice...

The Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences estimated that as many as 98,000 patients may be killed each year in hospitals alone as a result of medical errors.Earlier studies also found that this was a serious national problem.
www.medicalmalpractice.com/ National-Medical-Malpractice-Facts.cfm

Yeah I didn't mean to make the case that it's because of medical errors that the system needs changing...or to insinuate that it's literally worse than ever before...just that in this day and age these types of things shouldn't be taking place near as often as it used to as our technology is better than it's ever been....Doctors now practically let their offices be run by *nurse practicioners* and that's completely unacceptable in my opinion as well.

Privitization has proven itself to have made our system much worse than it was before....we abhhor the fact that a portion of our military has been privatized...I for one don't think it's wise to allow the medical industry to be making such HUGE profits off basically deciding who's worthy of healthcare and who isn't. And for the record I've not had health insurance since I was on my parents policy and dropped off it at age 18...I'm now 36 and as I stated above I've gotten extemely substandard care though our charity system....I held a temp position there in medical records and was reminded on a daily basis of how horrid it is and have resigned to never go back there unless I'm literally on my death bed.

....the hospital system didn't pay their workers the bare minimum or just slightly above minimun wage...they don't offer enough incentive for them to care about what they're doing.

The last time I went to a doctor...it was an OB/GYN who has let his nurse practitoner run his practice for him as of late...I had concerns about the endomitriosis that runs in my family and I thought I'd had some symptoms for quite awhile...she told me since diagnosing this problem would call for a laproscope and since I didn't have any insurence...I should just go to the charity hospital...I realize this was a rational response to a degree...but how dare she not even ask me FIRST if I could pay for the procedure instead of just assuming I had NO money at all??? I was having to pay cash for this visit..I was extremely insulted by her assumptions and the mannor in which she stated what she did...it was beyond condesending.

I was given a *fact* sheet on this *newly found* problem occuring in women...it had 5 steps of treatments that they'd try in regard to my problem...I then asked to see the doctor himself and he tells me he'd operate instead of even trying to do the other 4 treatment methods on the list....I'd asked to be given a drug that I'd heard would work for this also...he said he'd never heard of this being used for this and didn't prescribe me the medication....so I suffered for a couple years off and on with this problem untill my Dad was diagnosed with Leukemia and was prescribed the medication I'd asked for....after he went into remission and didn't need the remainder of this drug he gave me the remainder of his prescription....I've now rid myself completely of my problem after only having to take this medication TWICE....yet this doctor wanted to CUT OUT MY GLANDS instead of even attempting to prescribe me this drug.

This is only one of the many stories of how people get treated by doctors who don't really care about their patients...but only about their pocketbooks.

I know it's not ALL doctors....but just one that acts this way is too many in my opinion....and from what I hear from other people and see in the news...it's a widespread problem...and the HMO's now decide FOR a lot of doctors what they can and can't do...anywaaay...my opinion of the system as a whole is...it's just become another corporate scam...the wealthy get the best of it all...and the poor get shite upon.

I had a hysterectomy 18 months ago, at 37, for endometriosis, among other things, and I've never felt better! I understand completely your not wanting to go through a major surgery, but I'd do it all again in a heartbeat because I feel so much better with no more constant pain or worry about if the pain will come back or get worse, etc., etc.

my mother had the exact same surgery for endometriosis a few years back, and it's done wonders for her

what I am in support of, so please don't misrepresent.

<<<<<It's not a system conducive to the best communications between doctors and patients. In otherwords, in some cases, doctors have to overcome a natural instinct for self preservation to be fully honest with their patients. If the system didn't set up a huge internal conflict like this, honesty and communications would be better.
The arguments in favor of a socialized type system have much more to do with universal access and affordability. I think the "medical errors" argument is a poor one to use for that particular debate.>>>>>

.....all problems associated with the decay of the healthcare system must be taken into account...the ENTIRE PICTURE needs to be SEEN... SHOWN AND UNDERSTOOD in regard to any problem attempting to be resolved not just the pick and choose approach that's become commonplace in society at present.

I can't see how any doctor could go on for that length of time. Nursing school turned me off to any further medical schooling again. I studied day and night every day for 2 years. I ate, drank, and slept nursing. Yuck!

If I ever go back to school it will be for something entirely different. I liked all the pre-requisites like sociology, psych, logic, ethics, literature, cultural anthropology, physiology, microbiology. That's where I had the most fun! In clinicals, they scared you into making As for fear of not making it through or not passing boards! I guess it worked because I was a "c" student in high school, then graduated nursing in the top 3 out of 75 with a 3.6 GPA! It's amazing what fear will do to you regarding something you want bad enough!

.....hey....maybe that's why the Democratic party is so energized!!!lol

that was under contract from the federal government to audit clinics, hospitals and medical practices for Medicare abuse and fraud. I think it was a life changing experience for him. The amount of abuse, corruption and fraud he uncovered was astounding. The stories he told concerning some physicians and their greed were simply incredulous.

A few years later he sold the company and was asked to join the RTC to help clean up Ray-gun's mess. From one corrupt fire to another.