Is there anyway to tell a Bipolar person in a manic state

Who appears to be right at the edge of a psychotic break that they are there?

Better yet, is there any good way to do this?

They really will. I am a professional and I've seen them in action. They really don't mind if you call.

My brother was well taken care of.

Since we're with him all the time we knew the signs. Part of our therapy was talking about the danger signs, even my brother knew them but couldn't do anything to help himself when he got to a certain level. It was really helpful to all of us.

And they are pretty busy. Theres an appointment for tuesday. Fortunately there has been nothing overtly dangerous so far, just clear mania and some rather spirited talks with jesus. And a bit of paranoia regarding anyone interacted with. Kinda skirting that edge. She's been stable for a couple years, but recently ended her employment as it was too stressful. Then spent a month with family out of state, family who all seem to be untreated undiagnosed bipolar and believe in faith healing, so who knows what went down there.

As of Wednesday night she came back. As of Thursday morn she had kicked her minor (17, also diagnosed bipolar but now med controlled and doing very well, but still teenaged) while the girl was making her breakfast. it seems to have calmed down somewhat, and she let her back in. But despite the fact I deal with literally crazy people for a living, I am at a loss for what to do. Its not bad enough to invoke official interventions, but not good enough to discuss things rationally. I know there's no magic solution, but I really wish there were.

Thanks for the advice. If things do get bad, we will be on top of it. Hopefully she can hang on until the appointment tuesday

And not terribly helpful. "No immediate physical danger? Well, monitor the situation and call us back if there is. Perhaps since she trusts you(ha.. only so long as I seem to agree with her perception of things) you can go over there and convince her to see her dr."

It is a fine line between "ok on your own, just barely" and "needs a police escort and a locked padded cell", and somewhere hidden in that line is "involuntary commitment", which is apparently the main help they have to offer.

I know this is too harsh, and I did apreciate the gal who talked with me on the phone, but it is frustrating. I wish this were a more mainstream thing, with more real resources to prevent crisis, rather than just deal with it. I am fairly utilitarian in how I approach existence, and the bp'ness is way outside of my comfort zone.

and not very responsible with his medication. He thinks he knows better than the doctors. With my brother we always know he's getting close to that point because he doesn't sleep, he's constantly doing something..all day, all night...it gets really bad right before the crash. He can't concentrate on one thing he has to do 10 things at once..it's like he's on mega doses of speed. When we see him in "overdrive" we gently ask him if he's taking his meds. He usually admits that he's either not or not the way he's supposed to. Usually we get him back on them...only to repeat they cycle again.

Right after the New Year, he crashed harder than we've ever seen. Crying, talking about suicide, it was very bad. He willingly checked himself to a hospital and we had family therapy so we could help him. Since then he's been much better and sticking to his meds and going to therapy.

His fiance', left him right after he was released from the hospital (BITCH), she said she knew he was bi-polar but didn't really know what it was. They were together for 5 years, and all of a sudden she couldn't handle it. Turned out she was part of the problem. As much as I hate what she did to my brother, I'm glad she's gone. She wouldn't even go to see him when he was in the hospital.

If bi-polars take their medicine, and go to therapy, for the most part their fine. But I think they need a support system, that can see when they're having trouble.

My brother is one of the best people I know, he's got such a kind heart, and is really funny. But he thinks he's "damaged" because he's bi-polar, which I think makes it harder on him. I want him to find someone else to share his life with, someone who accepts him as he is. A great person.


Good luck with the person you're trying to help.

Shes still in overdrive and distractedly attempting to multitask while on proper meds. Unless they go heavy, in which case she just sleeps and gets vacant.

She dosnt want to be on meds. Who does. She has been taking them as ordered, to the best of our knowledge. I think just the stress of dealing with her abusive family may have pushed her to that edge. Plus a therapist who she convinced to lighten up on her prescribed meds, perhaps a bit too much. I know she would love to be able to live without them, but you would think a professional would know better than to accept that just cause things are(seem to be) going (reasonably) well right now, you can try to do without them.

I hope your brother can come to terms with what is going on in his head. If he finds a stable state, hopefully he can find someone to share that with, to reenforce the positive and who can understand and release the less pleasant moments. And now you know it wasn't the fiance. I instinctualy want to blame her too, but I have a hard time with it, because I don't think I could deal with what I have seen of this. I am the proverbial duck, waterproof in most of life's turmoil, but I am very sensitive to the few people I choose to really trust. The abuse and paranoia would be too likely to drag me down. And even knowing its not what their soul would say, but a twisting of their brain, I don't think that would allow me the detachment to be so close to it.

..if you don't mind me saying, I think she's lucky to have you as a friend. So many people get into real trouble because there's no one to care. You're a good person.

Yes, my brother feels the same way about the meds. But I think this last "melt down" scared the beejesus outta him, so I think he's coming to grips and taking them like he should. The docs put him on lithium, they can check his blood levels. It's supposed to make it easier to keep the meds in check.

I'll keep a good thought for you and your friend.

to find the drug that really works and yet leaves the individual with personality...non-zombie feelings.

County Health here in Oregon does a great job.

They must find THE drug that works best for them and then stay on them.

Periodic blood tests are absolutely necessary.

29 year old son living with me is BP.

I just want to point out that there is a reason people don't want to take those meds, and it's not necessarily because they are being difficeult or think they know better than the doctors. Phych meds are extremely toxic and unless you've ever had to take any of that stuff, you wouldn't understand how horrible the side effects can be.

In this particular case its because there is a general aversion to any type of medicine on general principal(the I did speed when I was young, and I quit, and I dont want chemicals in my body, even though I smoke like a chimney principal, as well as the "god can heal me" principal and the "only weak people need meds to control themselves" principal all in one big mishmash). Some of the meds have had unfortunate side effects. Everyone colaborated to make sure she got off those meds ASAP.

But even if that was her main reasoning, What side effects are worse than paranoid mania and delusional psychotic breaks? What could be worse than causing lifelong damage to your young children?

.
...was bipolar and occasionally would quit her meds and ALWAYS
ended up in the hospital for quite a while until they could get
her levels back up.
.
I asked her WHY she would stop -- KNOWING that she would get so
bad. I believe she was on Lithium (at least) and she told me that
she could only stand being emotionless and numb for so long --
that the cost of freeing herself from the extremes was sometimes
too high for her to bear.
.
I understood a little more.
.
Though she was single and mostly affected herself (affecting kids
would bring a whole new "responsibility" to bear on the equation).
.
And affecting her friends... but our discomfort and concern, of
course, was WAY secondary to her dissatisfaction -- and I'm not
saying that ironically or sarcastically. That may be one factor
to consider, but NOT the one that takes precedence.
.

how can you tell of an approaching manic state:

Some signs I've observed:

face contorts, eyes appear wild(only way I can describe it), mood swings, conversation doesn't make much sense, not finishing any task they set out to do, temperment swings, voice changes, periods of being catatonic(short or long), worsening sense of depression, sudden returns to 'normal' behavior before plunging into the depths of despair. Failed suicide attempts.

Sometimes they appear to be perfectly 'normal' in all respects...after a day of being somewhat off the norm. Manic attacks are sometimes sudden/immediate with no symptoms. Could be after a very strange day followed by a normal day and then the next day...on the attack from the time they wake.

If lucky, BPs and their doctor will find the exact right medication. Being zombie-like is something they all hate, causes depression, and ultimately leads to suicide attempts. Or attempting to beat other family members, or trashing the home they live in.

The exact right med will allow them to feel good about themselves, be aware of the world around them, and let them lead 'normal' lives--provided that they stay on the dosage prescribed. They are able to accomplish things, to enjoy life, to enjoy friends, and so on.

This BP thing is one tough mother.

When I was going untreated I had all of the symptoms of bipolar disorder and a few schizophrenic symptoms. When things were going bad for me everyone knew it but me. My folks would try to tell me I was in bad shape, but I wouldn't listen. I thought they were the ones who had the problem. I thought they were trying to hold me back and do me wrong.

Try to get him or her in treatment, but don't push too hard. A call to the doctor is definitely in order to see if he or she can help you and your loved one. If all else fails, be there for her/him when the crash comes. You may need to act quickly to get him or her to the hospital.

She clearly things everyone else is to blame for her satisfaction. And expresses it to be so with more use of "fucking" than a porn convention. And when I asked if she is ok, she says yes. And notes she can drive herself to the hospital, clearly remembering her previous incidents. But not connecting them to her current state other than superficially.

Hopefully she will go see her therapist as scheduled on monday. The whole thing is made much more complex by the involvement of a (barely)minor child. Having her there provided us eyes as to the situation on the ground. But added to the potential damage if things go bad. Now she is out, and we are trying to make sure she is taken care of, but we are completely blind to the on the ground conditions.

I'm a mental health professional (now retired) and I've worked and lived with many people with BAD over the years. My stepfather's first family was wiped out by this disorder. His first wife hanged herself in a state hospital and their two kids (my step- brother and sister) both suffered from BAD as well. My stepbrother (who was undiagnosed, looking back) died of a drug overdose. Accident? Suicide? We don't know to this day. My stepsister was classically bipolar--spending, short fuse, outrageous (on her) red dye job, many late night telephone calls across the country to rag on me because I'm gay and to rag on our parents for imagined slights during her childhood. She died by taking a lethal dose of Parnate, leaving her then ten year old daughter to find the body. I don't know how my step dad endured the grief. He was a good, generous and patient man (as long as we didn't discuss politics!)

I have always considered it significant that so many people prefer to endure the symptoms of their illness rather than take meds. Some of that is obviously due to the side effects of meds, but some of it is purely psychological-- not wanting to be viewed as ill or weak or Jesus will heal it, whatever. Part of learning to live with the disorder is learning to know when one's own symptoms indicate the onset of a manic episode. Many folks do learn to spot the signs and take appropriate action; others never do,

I think it's important to give your friend a gentle but consistent message that things are not going well and that she needs to get into treatment ASAP. If things get bad enough it might be necessary to leverage the situation by calling CPS to investigate possible child abuse as a means of impressing your friend with the seriousness of the situation (assuming you haven't yet had to call the involuntary commitment people-- don't know how that works in your state). I wish you and your friend the best. She's lucky to have you as a friend. Keep us posted.

All the best--
foxfeet

It looks like the daughter may come live with us. Don't know if this will be a week thing or until she is 18 in October. We will see. Gonna be tight in a 1 bedroom apartment.

Unfortunately, it appears that part of the aftermath will be two kitties. One lovable but middle aged and always hanging around outdoor kitty that belonged to the previous tenant and didn't know when it was time to move along, and one 5 month old crazy indoor kitty that has started peeing on everything. They were delivered to the pound today, which in my experience means they will most likely be put down. Ya never know, but statistics being what they are. And the daughter just got the call that its all her fault. And she bought flooring from a neighbor and wants to rip out all her carpet. One cannot say she is unproductive when manic. Its when she's on med's that she concocts a million projects that never happen. On manic, she does them all. (on edit: many's a rental apartment she has remodeled in her pre-diagnosis days)

Now we are walking her through how to change her screen saver. Surreal much?

as well as pound-sized Reeses Pieces bags.

Yes, I am bipolar, and this is something I'm hoping to receive, someday. Just putting in a good word for myself.

Almost worth considering. Can we slip tranquilizers into them? Totally joking, I would not do that.

On the other hand, that's how her family rolls(not joking or exaggerating. Slipping people various psychoactive med's is family tradition).

I'd LOVE to see how that blows back upon them.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Interfering with people's free will is verboten. I find that most of the problems in the world occur from people feeling that they have to do something to solve what they perceive to be other people's problems.

"Save me from the people who would save me from myself; they've got muscles for brains." -Gang of Four.

miserable people, and by all appearances have been so for the past... their lifetime. If that makes you feel better anyhow. I guess it started with grandma slipping grandpa his prescribed meds so that he wouldn't chase her around the house with a knife as often. When you reach that point, it sure seems to be a lose lose situation. The things people will put up with just cause they get used to it.

Life with a bi-polar person is pure hell at times. The only thing you learn to expect is the unexpected. My sister and I grew up with a bi-polar father who usually refused to take his meds (and does to this day). whenever he was in manic states you could reason with a giant mushroom better than you could with him. Usually he ended up hospitalized because of seeing religious visions coming out of the walls or the sky after days and days with no sleeping and barely eating.

I'm sorry things are so bad for you. :(

a bipolar in a manic state THEY JUST DON'T HEAR YOU

an authority who can restrain them, such as police officer or psychiatrist, depending on what they're up to, can be called -- if you don't want them arrested/committed, i'm afraid i'm guilty of just avoiding the person and praying it all works out, which it doesn't for bipolar people

i have no advice to give, i will be as curious to read the answers as you are

having read some of the answers now, i don't agree w. "for the most part they're fine if they take their meds" that isn't my experience, they don't take their meds, being manic/bipolar is by definition they think they're god and smarter than the rest of us, they don't take their meds or they mix them w. crack or etc. and so on...if you're dealing w. this you already know what i'm talking about...they're not fine

at the end of the day, save yourself

my choice between a paranoid schizophrenic and a bipolar disorder, if the schizophrenic takes his meds, he's a decent nice guy and we can get along and it's all cool, with bipolar, nope, just doesn't work

i wish i had better advice but i don't -- my solution has been to just avoid these persons

A good friend of mine was diagnosed with bipolar disorder almost 20 years ago, after a rather spectacular episode that got him hospitalized. After about a week he was sent home with medications that helped him, but after a number of months he gradually stopped taking them, and sure enough, he snapped again. After the second hospitalization he went back on his meds and hasn't quit taking them ever since. He now holds a very responsible professional job and lives a normal life. While some people have trouble staying on their meds it's not true for everyone. In recent years there are better drugs available that have fewer side effects, so that can make a big difference.

Seriously, ...

quite succinctly.

is more or like the decisions made by someone who is on drugs...

They don't see the damage... only the fact they are feeling great at the time while doing it.

I can tell when I'm starting to swing upward is when the racing thoughts come back and my speech is slurred and very rapid. Also, I have learned that if the peopole around me start acting a little scared or disturbed around me , then that is not a good sign. Other than that, I may not be able to tell the difference. Unfortunately I cannot count on my family to help me here, but outsiders instead. My family will not help me with managing my illness at all.

As the others here testified here, the side effects of medications for bipolars are an uber- pain in the ass, but what keeps me on my meds is that I cannot sleep on my own anymore. Seroquel is my best friend (600mg). I once went over 5 months without sleep a few years ago, and I will not repeat the experience.

:)

The older daughter of the bipolar person I posted this about said something I found intriguing. She stated that the main medicine side effect that she has seen her bipolar family members(there are several diagnosed, and more undiagnosed) complain about is tiredness. She further stated that her observation is that what they experience as being unbearably tired is what the rest of humanity experiences as its normal state of being.

I am curious about anyone's feedback on this, really.

and creativity, is exhaustion. Truly. And this is on a better course of medication than the previous, absolutism of lithium carbonate. That, and extreme insomnia (I'm also on sleeping pills). If I rest from the late afternoon until I sleep and wake up, I'll have two to four hours a day of "active" energy, which means, I can get to the library and be on line for a couple of hours. Any physical exertion (and exercise is just that) results in being drained, detatched, and twitching. I attempted to work at the kitchen next door, but couldn't even manage three hours of washing dishes; I couldn't keep up and didn't even ask them to pay me, I did so badly. Truly humiliating, compared to the amount of energy I used to have. That, and I can't even get together the money to pay for toiletries, most of the time, as a result. I often go without a bus pass as well, can't even pay for a disabled pass application right now.

I really hope that someone can find a med for me which will return my ability to function physically. It is for this reason that I consider myself disabled, not because I have bipolarity and addiction. If I could get out and pay my own way, I'd do it just like I used to (had an apartment, car, and adult companionship...wouldn't mind having any of that again!).

But at the core...I do NOT want back the paralyzing anxiety and moods which controlled me, that I could neither choose or act my way out of. A terrible balance, and living in these horrible "programs" with grown men stacked like cordwood, four to a tiny bedroom, little tyrants acting out their control fantasies (which is just overcompensation for fear and uncertainty), no money, no opportunity to deal with my beloved music and music technology/creativity...

Sure, life is simple for the destablized. Sorry to those who have had bad experiences with such people, but seriously. Life for us can be SHIT with SHIT TOPPING and a side of SHIT. :shrug:

I am like this all day except after 8pm. I have the energy of a normal person till 1-2AM, then I repeat the routine the next day. I am trying to find a way to break it, since my family thinks that I am lazy for not being more productve during the day. If I cut back on my meds I may have more energy the next day, but I make up the aggravation another way (slurred speech, losing control with spending, etc). It is a nuisance, really, that I spend a good deal of time in the morning and afternoon sleeping or doing number puzzles.

Right now I am morbidly obese, so I may be even more tired than most bipolar people. I want to resume a swimming/workout schedule in the next few weeks, so I hope in time that this will make a difference. I can't do it now because I can't afford a Y membership.

She was so excited and on top of things they wondered why she was even there. Her mother was concerned that she was more likely in a manic phase and would swing the other way.

The school decided to take her off one of her antipsychotic meds, cold turkey. Within days she was suffering from a psychotic breakdown complete with hallucinations, thinking people could read her mind, and a desire to escape.

During this time she hit a wall with her fist, a concrete wall. The school waited for 2 days before they took her to the ER. Yes, it was broken and she needed to have surgery. Of course, anyone working there would have went immediately to the ER had it happened to them.

So as it is we cannot really tell if she is on the edge of a psychotic break or not. We can only hope that when she seems to be doing really well that she is doing really well and is on the road to getting better.

I've never been full-blown manic, but I have been hypomanic, and it's one of the best feelings in the world. Sadly, you pay for a mania with a depression, and my depressions are akin to major depressive disorder. I stay on my meds because I know that there is always a price to pay for the hypomania, and that price is HUGE.

People actually enjoy my company when I'm on the manic side -- I'm lots of fun but tiring. Like someone above, I can tell when I'm starting to ramp up. I have a hard time differentiating racing thoughts from intuitive leaps, but if my friends see me jump from point A to point D in a conversation, that's a clue that I'm on the upswing. My dear friends know about my illness, and they'll tell me when my train of thought is hard to follow. That's when I start to examine my mood. Am I spending too much money? Am I having trouble sleeping? Am I taking on a shitton of huge projects? Those are clues that my meds need tweaking.

Mixed states are pretty crappy -- you have all this extra energy, but you're too depressed to get anything done. Hypo/manic people get shit done and feel damned good while doing it if they can stay focused on one task at a time.

I've been admitted three times, all during down cycles. It's hard as hell to get a hypo/manic person to seek help unless you can convince them that their meds need tweaking and that they will not be admitted unless they are a threat to themselves or someone else. Hypo/manic people don't tend to be threats unless they've got another disorder that makes them prone to violence.

And the drugs suck. You gain weight (like A LOT OF WEIGHT - hello diabetes!) or your hair falls out or you're unmotivated and sleepy all the time or you're no longer creative or they find a regimen that works and then after time the drugs poop out on you and you have to try something new. The thing a lot of people don't realize is that no one really knows how these antipsychotics work. Most are failed epilepsy drugs that ended up regulating mood.

You can go off some of the drugs cold turkey, but most require titration.

I'd be threatening this residential facility with legal action and looking for a new place.

My best best wishes to her, her family and yours.

This is pretty much the end of the road for what her school district will pay. The point of her being there is so she can finish her high school education and at her last place she continually walked out of the school and disappearing for a night. She knows this is it for her and her last chance.

The problem with this and some of the other places is communication. Like don't take her off medications without first telling her mom and letting her mom know about what is going on with her daughter and not just informing her after the fact. The problem is that you have to treat them like imbeciles in telling them what they should already know and probably do, what is common sense, but you can't really be sure so you have to say it anyways.

Anyways, this is a much better year for her. Last year, the first full year of her breakdown, she was hospitalized 13 times at 7 different hospitals where they would keep her for a couple of weeks, then cut her lose and send her home to let her mom pick up the pieces when she fell apart in a couple of weeks. Again, a lack of communication and continuity of care. But it seems as though things have started to click in my goddaughter's mind and she realizes she needs to be serious about her future and pull it together to the best of her ability and the best she is able, dealing with the ups and the downs.