My response to a rape, friends involved...

I have two friends, Both members of my group in Nevada City.

One is a weird guy, a prolific partier,musician friend I have know for 10 years. Never knew anything untoward for him. Late 20's. He is the guy at parties who pinches boobs and all that though yet oddly enough, did not bother any of the females in our group. It's just ___ being ___ they have always said. "Part of his charm". He lives in the community and is the center of the thriving cash crop industry.

The girl is a cute girl who has know her attacker for ever and ever. A Hippie/punk rock kind of girl. A State worker actually, and a single Mom. She has dated around in our scene, but was currently unattached. Everyone loves her and she is very tight in the community, even though she does not live here.


In June they found themselves alone, drunk, and according to her, he attacked her after a night of telling him why she was NOT into him. He claims it was "Mixed signals". I have not talked about the incident to him directly, (quite honestly, I really don't want to talk to him, I might lose it and get myself in trouble) but I have talked, at length, to her. I have heard all excuses from all of his (and surprisingly, her)friends though and know his version pretty much in talking this over. In my little scene it is THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION. He is embraced and she is exiled right now.

Don't get me wrong I like the guy and I like her and have the same "friendness: here. Both I have known well for 7 or so years.

This all happened back in June. I only new of this since October, maybe September because i haven't been with the group for a while. I have been avoiding the whole bunch of them actually. The girl has dropped out totally but he is amidst the group. One of the members in the group (friends of both)sent a post to everyone in out group about it. And that was how I found out.

She did not file charges (Wrongly) but she did file a report tow days later with the local police. Nothing came of it and it is, or will be, dropped.

And when I need it the most, the group, the place I go to get my hugs, is in turmoil..


So I wrote this to my group to respond to what I have been seeing there lately:




Appalled I am.

"Boys will be Boys". "She shouldn't have put herself in that position" and most surprisingly "well. this doesn't surprise me". WTF? A man acts so selfishly that he is he willing to not only destroy another person's basic values of trust and honesty over fullfilling, as he told his victim that night, a long held fantasy, but he is also willing to tear apart a community that is now hopelessly caught up in this act of extreme selfishness.

Worse though, are the reactions of some of the people in the community and their world. Yes, Boys will be boys. But this not playing marbles or farting in public. This is sexual assault. And as a boy, To think that this clears anyone of taking someone's core values away from them is not "Boys will be boys". It is RAPE. I have never pushed myself on a woman and I would like to think that most of you would not do this either, NO means NO, not maybe or "mixed signals". No means get the fuck off of me. Apparently the victim spent the better part of the night telling her attacker the reason why she was not into him. And still he attacked her. But to dismiss this selfish act with a phrase best reserved for playing marbles is ludicrous. Just come clean and say what you mean, I support _______ and will, until he rapes me.

THERE ARE NO EXCUSES.

And yes, she did put herself in a situation that put herself alone with her eventual attacker. So what? A lifelong friend, whome she knew for ever and ever,as her attacker was, should have enough respect for you to not rape you or to take advantage of the situation. (actually everyone should have that) It like my ex wife who used to tell me "Just don't leave stuff laying around and he (my stepson) won't steal it?" No, sorry, that shit doesn't fly, This is not her fault, it is his fault.

"I am not surprised" Well, no shit. The guy's boorish behavior is legendary. The pinching butts, the tittie grabs, all that some might find charming, I have always found to be quite boorish. Almost to the point where it is like he was one of those developmentally disabled kids who doesn't know any better and has no other way to act out their sexual urges and fantasies. But this is not that. This is a member of our community who did this. Someone that was disabled by (as usual) alcohol, lust and selfishness.

The real tragedy is, that now when I see my friends hanging out and partying with the attacker, all I see is that my friends support him and are the ones making excuses for the attacker. Even worse, the ladies of the group, some the victim's good friends, seem to support him. For me, it makes me very uncomfortable to even be around this and see this happen. It is highly unlikely I will be anywhere near this group in the future, And that is really where the selfishness comes in. The attacker was so selfish that he would be willing to see his community torn to shreds over his own sexual gratification. To fulfill what he said to his victim after his act of selfishness "a fantasy".....

THERE ARE NO EXCUSES.

Ask yourself this, would you feel comfortable around the attacker if left alone with him when he was hammered (as they both admittedly were that night)?????

What is most appalling is the community embracing this guy. And in return, exiling the victim to whispers and innuendo...

Some depend on the guy for income, but still that is not an excuse. They could replace him in a minute.

I can't help but think it escalated to this. Why did your group put up with it for so long?

Also consider that there may be other victims of his out there.

not acceptable.

if someone came up to me and grabbed my junk (assuming they aren't TSA), I would assume that they were being sexually aggressive, not "flirting." And if it's unwanted, that's sexual assault. And frakking obvious sexual assault, at that.

I have asked and the girls and all believe him to be harmless and fun. I would never do anything he does but for him somehow they find charming. He bald and almost troll like. He is funny as hell.

And other victims, well there is a situation I remember a girl getting raped and I think he was at that event. She has not been since that event. That I am looking into right now but she just dropped out totally never to be heard from since, and she made no accusations...

is no surprise. You said he's "funny as hell" -- how far would this guy go with any other member of your group for the amusement he seems to crave?

Good letter.

I have asked about this a plenty. And the girls in the group all, even the victim, here found him charming and harmless. Some apparently still hold that feeling about him.

Have you been talking to the victim? Sounds like she needs people standing with her

That any form of sexual assault is alright.
The best thing would be to call him out about it in front of the friends. I realize that some people aren't so brave. Men standing up to other men and saying that it isn't alright is the only way to significantly decrease the incidents of rape and any other form of sexual assault. It would probably be helpful to the victim if you offered your support and saw her from time to time.

There area few of us out there who are supporting her. I have a different thing going so iwll see if she will come along sometimes. But this is my group. And now it is splintered. But when both factions collide like they did last week, it is weird as hell. We are talking a very close knit group of 100 people.

I wish more men were like you.

:applause:

Unfortunately, her so-called "friends" are letting her down in her greatest time of need. It's too scary to think this guy would actually harm any of THEM, so it's easier just to blame it on the victim.

Dude, you have a predator in your midst...and they can be very manipulative in getting others to believe their lies.

Your friend needs assistance from professionals in dealing this, or she may never get over it.

I salute you for your support of this young woman.

Or those who enable them.

I think you're going to have to find a new group of friends.

please encourage her to get rape counseling. It will be imperative for her mental health and for the welfare of her child.

As for the male...it could be escalation of behavior or it could be repeat behavior? Have you checked with the police department to find out his history?

He is a predator and she probably wasn't the first and she won't be the last...

This is a very small town here. Eveeryone would know. He has lived here forever and is part of the native clan...

Personally, I believe this to be a poor decision on his part fueled by alcohol. It's not an excuse, but he has been in this situation many times with many other women and this was NOT the result. When i went up there last week, I asked around to the girls in the scene....And I think that is why the girls are giving him a pass, because he did not attack them in the same situation.

But I sure like you. Thank you for speaking up to defend your friend. It's a terrible story, and I'm glad you're there for her.

I am so weirded out by all of this it is not funny.

that guy would be DEAD

I was at a house party with dozens of people I knew well. It was my senior year of high school. The close friend who had the party told about 10 of us that we could all stay there so we would not have to drive, so we drank more than we normally would, knowing we were staying put. I got pretty smashed and went upstairs to go to bed, and shortly thereafter, a guy who'd come on to me many times before came up and got in bed with me, and kept trying to make his move. I kept saying no, and he kept on trying. I was seeing double, and half-passed-out. Thankfully a guy who'd had a crush on me for a long time was watching out for me. He came looking for me and threw the asshole out. He stayed in there with me, sitting in a nearby armchair, until everyone else was gone.

It killed me that most of the people I knew totally gave that asshole a pass because we were *both* drunk. Over the years I shed those friends. But now in the era of Facebook, many of them have looked me up again, and I see several who have him as a mutual friend. I even asked one if she remembered what he tried to do to me, and she was like "That was so long ago and it was just because he was drunk."

Fuck that. I have more loyalty to my friends. If anyone tried that with my friend, he'd be dead to me.

Drunk does not give you a pass to do whatever you want. Nor does it give you an excuse.

:yourock: I wish your woman friend well and healing and support.


I felt the same way about a guy in our musical community here who continued to be tolerated and accepted even after he totally beat up the mother of their son. Sickening. I can't look at the guy without feeling sick.

Victims very rarely get the support they should have.

I just wanted to mention though, if you don't mind the suggestion, that you may want to refrain from even hinting at judging her over whether or not she pressed charges or when she reported the rape to the police. People react to violations in different ways and there is no "correct" way to handle it. Also, for many rape victims, the police process and legal system can be almost as violating. I'm speaking from experience, in the last year, I attended a rape trial as moral support for the victim, and I was surprised at how vicious parts of the process was - and that was only the very end of the whole ordeal for my friend. It is not uncommon for police to disbelieve or intimidate a victim so they don't have to classify the assault as a crime, and so on. This has been a huge problem in Baltimore over the last several years, and the news stories only started coming in about July, so it is really fresh in my mind, but I know the problem isn't localized. When facing that sort of treatment, it isn't hard to understand why someone may not want to deal with reporting the rape.

The sad thing is, the way the group is treating your friend (that is, the victim) is another betrayal, similar to what she might have, and most probably would have, faced when dealing with the legal system. I can't help but wonder if the group had sided with her, if she would have had the strength to press charges.

Regardless, good for you for speaking up. As you have seen, many people do not.

And I'm sure that it will bother some people, but good for you for speaking your mind and supporting this young woman.

Upthread it was said that there should be more men like you. I agree.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

is, what is wrong with the women in your group?!

If some guy, no matter how well I knew him, "pinched" my boobs, he'd be slapped! And I don't even want to go into what Biker13 would do. Hell, this past summer, a friend made an "inappropriate" remake to me, and Biker13 put in his place immediately. I appreciated it, but maybe I'm just old fashioned...

I'm in the west too. Transplant from NYC, and the men out here are respectful of women. Where did you find these people?

You need a new group of friends. You're too good for this crowd.

Biker's Old Lady

IT is not me, but, like I have said, ladies find him harmless. These are all women that have known him FOREVER and he has always been like that. Since grade school. So there is that familiarity with him.....

I mean, duh, a lion doesn't go after the lead antelope. He hunts the stragglers.

for standing up to the group - and the creep.

We in America often lambast extremist religions who will 'honor kill" a woman who has been raped.

But people do the same thing here in America, even if only killing the victim socially.. The woman is demonized and the male is excused. People are too uncomfortable with the idea that a "nice guy" can rape.

This is how rapists continue to victimize with society's tacit - or sometimes total - approval.

Good for you for setting them straight.

i'd hang out with her and the two of you can form a new group of friends who don't endorse sexual assault.
The rest of the group sounds callous and I would not trust any of them.

Whatever the truth of the matter.

Appalled I am.

"Boys will be Boys". "She shouldn't have put herself in that position" and most surprisingly "well, this doesn't surprise me". WTF? A man acts so selfishly that he is he willing to not only destroy another person's basic values of trust and honesty over fullfilling, as he told his victim that night, a long held fantasy, but he is also willing to tear apart a community that is now hopelessly caught up in this act of extreme selfishness.

Worse though, are the reactions of some of the people in the community and their world. Yes, Boys will be boys. But this not peeing outside or farting in public. This is sexual assault. And as a someone who has been through most phases of Boyhood and understands boyness, to think that this clears anyone of taking someone's core values away from them is not "Boys will be boys". It is RAPE. I have never pushed myself on a woman and I would like to think that ALL of you would not do this either, NO means NO, not maybe or "mixed signals". No means "get the fuck off of me". According to the victim, she spent the better part of the night telling her attacker the reason(s) why she was not into him. And still he attacked her. But to dismiss this selfish act with a phrase best reserved for playing marbles is ludicrous. Just come clean and say what you mean," I support _______ and will, until he rapes ME".

THERE ARE NO EXCUSES.

And yes, she did put herself in a situation that put herself alone with her eventual attacker. So what? A lifelong friend, whome she knew for ever and ever,as her attacker was, should have enough respect for you to not rape you or to take advantage of the situation. (actually everyone should have that) It's like my ex wife who used to tell me "Just don't leave stuff laying around and he (my stepson) won't steal it!" No, sorry, that shit doesn't fly, This is not her fault, it is his fault.

"I am not surprised" Well, no shit. The guy's boorish behavior is legendary. The pinching butts, the tittie grabs, all that some might find charming, I have always found to be quite boorish. Almost to the point where it is like he was one of those developmentally disabled kids who doesn't know any better and has no other way to act out their sexual urges and fantasies. But this is not that. This is a member of our community who did this. Someone that was disabled by (as usual) alcohol, lust and selfishness.
The real tragedy is, that now when I see my friends hanging out and partying with the attacker, ALL I see is that my friends support him and are the ones making excuses for the attacker. Even worse, the ladies of the group, some the victim's good friends, seem to support him. For me, it makes me very uncomfortable to even be around this and see this happen. It is highly unlikely I will be anywhere near this group in the future, And that is really where the selfishness comes in. The attacker was so selfish that he would be willing to see his community torn to shreds over his own sexual gratification. To fulfill what he said to his victim after his act of selfishness "a fantasy".....

THERE ARE NO EXCUSES.

Ask yourself this, would you feel comfortable around the attacker if left alone with him when he was hammered (as they both admittedly were that night)?????

What is most appalling is the community embracing this guy. And in return, exiling the victim to whispers and innuendo...

I am hoping they are too embarassed.

Thank you for standing up for your friend. I really wish I had something more useful to say, but ... I've been in this kind of community... 100 really good friends, n matter how well, or not, you know each other. And when one of the group destroys that bond - by rape for christsake - it all goes to shit and so few respond in a mature or thinking fashion. Just, good luck to her, and to you all on her side.

Every other aspect of my life is fucked up and the one bunch I could count on is now torn to shreds. Now, whenever I go out to see bands that I see all the time, and everyone from this group will be there, there will be this weirdness.

Your circle of friends sounds pretty fucked up. I would find no need to be included in a social clique that took the aggressor's side.

And I have asked the ladies of the group if his behavior upset them and it did not. So not my problem. It is not like he comes over to the house or anything, but he is a central figure in my community up there.

Then ask yourself, if one in your circle of friends was accused of rape, but no charges were filed, both drunk etc...wouldn't a good number of your friends take his side?

I wish it were such a clear cut thing, but it isn't.

you were saying...?

They sound like monsters. :(

I used to hang out with people who were always drunk and this is how it was with all the immature groping etc but for some reason it was just the guys who got silly and left the girls alone.

It's still a crime but a woman needs to protect herself too because being in the right doesn't negate the experience.